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Sizzlebshu

Brandon Browner

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Thoughts on signing him if the price Is low enough.

Pros

Big cb

Fits press man

Physical

Cons

Potential suspension ( mitigated by terms of deal)

Edited by Sizzlebshu
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Nope... Don't get me wrong, he's a good player, but he's facing a possible 1 year suspension. I think it's like his 3rd offense, so he's getting hit hard. Add into that he's probably going to want $$$ so no. We have more pressing needs then a starting CB as well.

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He's slow for a corner and gets flagged a lot too, he's a bit like the cornerback version of Pollard. With a drug habit.

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I personally always thought Walter Thurmond III was better and think we should target him. Thurmond is actually the one I really want, but I'm not sure what type of contract he wants. 

I just want to know what it is about Seattle because all from 2010-2011: Walter Thurmond (4th round), Richard Sherman (fifth round), Kam Chancellor (fifth round), and Byron Maxwell (sixth round). How are they doing it?

Edited by BmoreBird22
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I personally always thought Walter Thurmond III was better and think we should target him. Thurmond is actually the one I really want, but I'm not sure what type of contract he wants.

I just want to know what it is about Seattle because all from 2010-2011: Walter Thurmond (4th round), Richard Sherman (fifth round), Kam Chancellor (fifth round), and Byron Maxwell (sixth round). How are they doing it?

Good scouts, good gm, good coaching and players that fit their scheme. Pete Carroll to me really deserves a lot of credit. I remember when everyone laughed at him for leaving college (whatever his reasons were) and making the playoffs as a 7-9 team. If you look at the roster, that's basically what him and his staff put together with a huge turnover.

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Good scouts, good gm, good coaching and players that fit their scheme. Pete Carroll to me really deserves a lot of credit. I remember when everyone laughed at him for leaving college (whatever his reasons were) and making the playoffs as a 7-9 team. If you look at the roster, that's basically what him and his staff put together with a huge turnover.

It was a rhetorical question just remarking that they have gotten some really talented players that have flown under the radar.

Edited by BmoreBird22
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He's slow for a corner and gets flagged a lot too, he's a bit like the cornerback version of Pollard. With a drug habit.

 

Bernard Pollard ran a 4.57 at the Combine.

 

Anyone watching surely saw him quickly close ground on fleet receivers and lay punishing hits.

 

Pollard just signed a multi-year extension with the Titans and scouts opined 2013 was his best season yet. He was rated as one of the top 100 players in the league. (#87)

 

He did draw flags, many of which were not warranted. He also wore receivers down.

 

Pollard will be playing after Cleats Elam is out of the league.

 

This was another inexplicable move. The kind of move that says we need a new G.M. before it's too late.

Edited by Poes Crows
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Can he play LT, RT, C or WR

Excluding LT (as that is deep for once), is there currently a FA that can play any of those positions? I don't see anyone worth any money. 

 

Not everything is need based. If Browner is given an ideal contract, he can benefit the defense and secondary tremendously. 

 

He and Jimmy on the outside can play physical press man which would allow Webb to shift to the slot and play a shutdown role there. Its not that Webb isn't good or anything on the outside because he is very good there, but it would give our defense another option and allow it to maximize its strengths (out of the 3 Webb probably would have the most success in the slot of the 3 is my reasoning for moving him there.) 

 

As for the flags, it comes with the style of press man. You have to live with some penalties to be physical. It is almost a non-issue to me. 

Edited by Sizzlebshu
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Bernard Pollard ran a 4.57 at the Combine.

 

Anyone watching surely saw him quickly close ground on fleet receivers and lay punishing hits.

 

Pollard just signed a multi-year extension with the Titans and scouts opined 2013 was his best season yet. He was rated as one of the top 100 players in the league. (#87)

 

He did draw flags, many of which were not warranted. He also wore receivers down.

 

Pollard will be playing after Cleats Elam is out of the league.

 

This was another inexplicable move. The kind of move that says we need a new G.M. before it's too late.

 

What does this have to do with the topic?

 

Anyway, I like Browners playing style but he's a junkie. He's also turning 30.

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Pollard will be playing after Cleats Elam is out of the league.

Lol!!!!

Edited by bMore Heathen
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Bernard Pollard ran a 4.57 at the Combine.

 

Anyone watching surely saw him quickly close ground on fleet receivers and lay punishing hits.

 

Pollard just signed a multi-year extension with the Titans and scouts opined 2013 was his best season yet. He was rated as one of the top 100 players in the league. (#87)

 

He did draw flags, many of which were not warranted. He also wore receivers down.

 

Pollard will be playing after Cleats Elam is out of the league.

 

This was another inexplicable move. The kind of move that says we need a new G.M. before it's too late.

 

Since DeCosta is basically Ozzie 2.0, you're going to have to wait a long time for that

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His a product of the talents around him.

 

I'm a little skeptic about any of the Pete's roster in his locker room.   Majority are caught w/ a substance abuse(never verified which drug it is)

 

Pete's excuse is that its just weed, but i highly doubt that.    

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What does this have to do with the topic?

 

Anyway, I like Browners playing style but he's a junkie. He's also turning 30.

 

Your comparision

 

You called Browner slow and penalty prone and compared him to Pollard.

 

Pollard is not slow and his penalties were generally good plays. Even when improperly flagged he set a tone that inured to our benefit. Our G.M. decided to let his starting safeties go and play a miss-selected rookie without a mentor.  Then the player Cut predictably had his best year ever. 

 

We've got a big problem and its not going to go away because it doesn't want to. But we can't cover for it's mistakes. It has to be escorted out and the sooner the better.

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Your comparision

 

You called Browner slow and penalty prone and compared him to Pollard.

 

Pollard is not slow and his penalties were generally good plays. Even when improperly flagged he set a tone that inured to our benefit. Our G.M. decided to let his starting safeties go and play a miss-selected rookie without a mentor.  Then the player Cut predictably had his best year ever. 

 

We've got a big problem and its not going to go away because it doesn't want to. But we can't cover for it's mistakes. It has to be escorted out and the sooner the better.

I understand the love for Pollard, I really enjoyed his time. But your forgetting something, Ihedigbo took Pollard role, not Elam. Kind of invalidates the points you are trying to make

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Your comparision

 

You called Browner slow and penalty prone and compared him to Pollard.

 

Pollard is not slow and his penalties were generally good plays. Even when improperly flagged he set a tone that inured to our benefit. Our G.M. decided to let his starting safeties go and play a miss-selected rookie without a mentor.  Then the player Cut predictably had his best year ever. 

 

We've got a big problem and its not going to go away because it doesn't want to. But we can't cover for it's mistakes. It has to be escorted out and the sooner the better.

 

James Ihedigbo out played Pollard last year so we basically let Pollard go and kept a cheaper better in coverage strong safety. How doe that not make sense? also Ihedigbo wasn't a penalty machine like Pollard was as well.

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Bernard Pollard ran a 4.57 at the Combine.

 

Anyone watching surely saw him quickly close ground on fleet receivers and lay punishing hits.

 

Pollard just signed a multi-year extension with the Titans and scouts opined 2013 was his best season yet. He was rated as one of the top 100 players in the league. (#87)

 

He did draw flags, many of which were not warranted. He also wore receivers down.

 

Pollard will be playing after Cleats Elam is out of the league.

 

This was another inexplicable move. The kind of move that says we need a new G.M. before it's too late.

Wow. You were actually making some understandable statements regarding Pollard, then you completely dropped the ball in your last two statements. Sad.

 

Anyway, the biggest con is actually attraction.

Browner should draw a lot of interest. He's a quality starting CB and more teams will like his style of play. The Ravens won't be on his priority list.

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Can he play LT, RT, C or WR

but how about FS? can he transition there Webb style?

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Your comparision

 

You called Browner slow and penalty prone and compared him to Pollard.

 

Pollard is not slow and his penalties were generally good plays. Even when improperly flagged he set a tone that inured to our benefit. Our G.M. decided to let his starting safeties go and play a miss-selected rookie without a mentor.  Then the player Cut predictably had his best year ever. 

 

We've got a big problem and its not going to go away because it doesn't want to. But we can't cover for it's mistakes. It has to be escorted out and the sooner the better.

 

you really seem to hate ozzie lol.

 

did he cut you from the team orso??

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I understand the love for Pollard, I really enjoyed his time. But your forgetting something, Ihedigbo took Pollard role, not Elam. Kind of invalidates the points you are trying to make

Calvin, not sure why you are sporting a Cardinals icon.

 

You're making the old "Safety out of Position" argument. It's an argument this fan rejects outright.

 

It goes like this...

 

"Sure we drafted Cleats Elam number 1, but we never intended for him to replace Ed Reed...So when Oz decided to start him there for the Free Agent that sucked but still earned 3 million after being cut, it was no wonder Elam sucked and he'll be so much better when he moves over to the other position that requires a player to read the play, make the tackle, defend the pass and intercept the ball"

 

The man has hands of stone, poor recognition and is a midget. He cannot play in the NFL. Most revealing is that Oz is on record stating that Elam was rated near the very top of the board.  Come on man.

 

The more one analyzes Oz's moves the last two years the more one has to realize Bisciotti is on the verge of a breakdown.

Edited by Poes Crows
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Calvin, not sure why you are sporting a Cardinals icon.

because he's the Cards' manager in our little game

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Calvin, not sure why you are sporting a Cardinals icon.

 

You're making the old "Safety out of Position" argument. It's an argument this fan rejects outright.

 

It goes like this...

 

"Sure we drafted Cleats Elam number 1, but we never intended for him to replace Ed Reed...So when Oz decided to start him there for the Free Agent that sucked but still earned 3 million after being cut, it was no wonder Elam sucked and he'll be so much better when he moves over to the other position that requires a player to read the play, make the tackle, defend the pass and intercept the ball"

 

The man has hands of stone, poor recognition and is a midget. He cannot play in the NFL. Most revealing is that Oz is on record stating that Elam was rated near the very top of the board.  Come on man.

 

The more one analyzes Oz's moves the last two years the more one has to realize Bisciotti is on the verge of a breakdown.

 

The guy is a bust after his first season in the NFL wow smh. I know you don't like Elam but to say things like he cannot play in the nfl because of his size as if he's the only 5'10 safety in the league,He has stone hands which you have no proof of,and etc is ridiculous especially at this stage of his career.. 

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Calvin, not sure why you are sporting a Cardinals icon.

 

You're making the old "Safety out of Position" argument. It's an argument this fan rejects outright.

 

It goes like this...

 

"Sure we drafted Cleats Elam number 1, but we never intended for him to replace Ed Reed...So when Oz decided to start him there for the Free Agent that sucked but still earned 3 million after being cut, it was no wonder Elam sucked and he'll be so much better when he moves over to the other position that requires a player to read the play, make the tackle, defend the pass and intercept the ball"

 

The man has hands of stone, poor recognition and is a midget. He cannot play in the NFL. Most revealing is that Oz is on record stating that Elam was rated near the very top of the board.  Come on man.

 

The more one analyzes Oz's moves the last two years the more one has to realize Bisciotti is on the verge of a breakdown.

I respect a good debate,

 

I'm not even trying to argue where Elam is supposed to be playing. I would like to see him in Pollards old role but we haven't seen that yet. You are comparing Elam and Pollard but it should really be Pollard and Ihedigbo you are comparing. Pollard wouldn't have looked great at center field either.

 

After this year, I'm sure we will see Elam in Pollards position and then we can really asses this. If he stinks it up for the reasons you said up in the box, than you can say I told you so all you want man. 

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Poes Crows is really good at derailing threads with his tired agendas... I'll give him that but not much else...

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Poes Crows is really good at derailing threads with his tired agendas... I'll give him that but not much else...

 

I've learned to simply ignore him at this point.  Nothing he says ever has anything to do with any of the threads he posts in.

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Starting with Browner, Gus Bradley will probably scoop up a few of his former guys to change the culture in Jacksonville.

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Bernard Pollard ran a 4.57 at the Combine.

 

Anyone watching surely saw him quickly close ground on fleet receivers and lay punishing hits.

 

Pollard just signed a multi-year extension with the Titans and scouts opined 2013 was his best season yet. He was rated as one of the top 100 players in the league. (#87)

 

He did draw flags, many of which were not warranted. He also wore receivers down.

 

Pollard will be playing after Cleats Elam is out of the league.

 

This was another inexplicable move. The kind of move that says we need a new G.M. before it's too late.

 

Why are you so negative all the time? And that's not a pun at all your posts getting negged lol.

Edited by RobFuseRaven
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If he's cheap and wants to be with a contender and there's contract stipulations then Hell yeah. 

I agree on that, we could have potentially had josh gordon if not scared off by his outside troubles. If we would have taken a chance on him(just like we should have taken a chance on Vontaze), WR would not have been a top need in this years draft, allowing us to go for potentially more picks to go towards a slot guy, TE to help with Pitta, a starting Center potentially, FS, the list goes on.

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The more one analyzes Oz's moves the last two years the more one has to realize Bisciotti is on the verge of a breakdown.

 

lol!

 

#Mili

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I'm not discussing Pollard any further, theres no point. This topic is about Browner. 

 

I'd be interested in seeing if Browner can play safety.

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Not interested. We're set with Jimmy as our shadow corner and Webb on the other side.

 

Teams don't have two wide receivers, we still need a capable third corner.

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I'm not discussing Pollard any further, theres no point. This topic is about Browner. 

 

I'd be interested in seeing if Browner can play safety.

 

Browner is not a safety.  Guys that are 6'4, 220+, and not very mobile cannot play safety.  He's strictly an outside CB.  He's good because he's big and physical.  That doesn't play well in space.

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Teams don't have two wide receivers, we still need a capable third corner.

 

The odds of him taking a job that not only pays him like a backup corner but also gives him the role of a backup corner are about zero. Graham is a decent #3, we have way bigger needs than CB.

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Browner is not a safety.  Guys that are 6'4, 220+, and not very mobile cannot play safety.  He's strictly an outside CB.  He's good because he's big and physical.  That doesn't play well in space.

 

 

A lot of corners move to safety when they get older because they get slower.

 

The odds of him taking a job that not only pays him like a backup corner but also gives him the role of a backup corner are about zero. Graham is a decent #3, we have way bigger needs than CB.

 

It doesn't have to be Browner and Graham is a free agent, if we can retain him it's at market value.

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A lot of corners move to safety when they get older because they get slower.

 

 

It doesn't have to be Browner and Graham is a free agent, if we can retain him it's at market value.

 

6'4, 220+.  Again, he's not and won't be a safety.  There's a difference in speed and mobility.

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6'4, 220+.  Again, he's not and won't be a safety.  There's a difference in speed and mobility.

 

 

Safeties are bigger and slower than corners.

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I wouldn't mind Browner for the right price. He could be a great #2 and could cover the TE. That would allow Jimmy Smith to do his thing outside and Webb to do his thing with the slot guy. Maybe if we got him for a short term deal so he could prove himself worth a big raise and then get us a comp pick down the road. This is wishful thinking however most likely and unless he takes a one year deal, I don't think we will be able to afford him. And if we could afford him, Seattle would probably scoop him up anyways. 

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Safeties are bigger and slower than corners.

No, not always true. Troy Polamalu is 4 inches shorter than Jimmy Smith, but a good bit faster. 

 

Safeties are considered big when they're hitting 6'0", 6'1" and most are around 5'11" or so. Think Troy, Reed, Earl Thomas, Eric Weddle, Donta Whitner, Devin McCourty, etc. They're all under 6'0" tall.

 

You realize that the bigger you are, the harder it is to change direction, right? Safeties aren't really big because it limits hip fluidity and change of direction, something very important to safeties. They have to be able to flip their hips and get going in a different direction quickly, and that would be limited if they were larger.

 

With a greater emphasis being placed on press coverage (think Seattle cornerbacks), it's okay for cornerbacks to be larger. Larger cornerbacks won't play much off or zone (think Seattle) for the above listed reasons. 

Edited by BmoreBird22
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Thoughts on signing him if the price Is low enough.

Pros

Big cb

Fits press man

Physical

Cons

Potential suspension ( mitigated by terms of deal)

Love him a s CB however considering his ongoing off the field issues and especially because he will miss atleast the first 2 games of 2014...he  won't be a Raven.

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No, not always true. Troy Polamalu is 4 inches shorter than Jimmy Smith, but a good bit faster. 

 

Safeties are considered big when they're hitting 6'0", 6'1" and most are around 5'11" or so. Think Troy, Reed, Earl Thomas, Eric Weddle, Donta Whitner, Devin McCourty, etc. They're all under 6'0" tall.

 

You realize that the bigger you are, the harder it is to change direction, right? Safeties aren't really big because it limits hip fluidity and change of direction, something very important to safeties. They have to be able to flip their hips and get going in a different direction quickly, and that would be limited if they were larger.

 

With a greater emphasis being placed on press coverage (think Seattle cornerbacks), it's okay for cornerbacks to be larger. Larger cornerbacks won't play much off or zone (think Seattle) for the above listed reasons. 

 

 

Those are called exceptions. For example there are linebackers who happen to be shorter than or weigh less than cornerback Patrick Peterson, that doesn't change the fact linebackers are bigger than corners.

 

Ihedigbo is 214lb and the SS before him was 230lb but I guess we're just ignoring that, and we're pretending like Browner stands there like a statue after the press and doesn't mirror his receiver.

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Those are called exceptions. For example there are linebackers who happen to be shorter than or weigh less than cornerback Patrick Peterson, that doesn't change the fact linebackers are bigger than corners.

 

Ihedigbo is 214lb and the SS before him was 230lb but I guess we're just ignoring that, and we're pretending like Browner stands there like a statue after the press and doesn't mirror his receiver.

List me several safeties over 6'1". That's starting to become about the norm for cornerbacks. I don't want ones that are 6'1", like Ihedigbo and Pollard (even though neither are special). I want them to be at least 6'2" or above because you said safeties are usually bigger.

Do you know why I picked those particular names? Because they're considered to be the better safeties in the league right now. Hell, even Ronnie Lott was only 6'0" tall and he's considered to be the best safety ever. Am I saying that a safety has to be short to be good? No, but that's more often than not the case.

 

I'm glad you mention both Pollard and Ihedigbo. How often are they in center field or deep coverage? Rarely because they both suck at it. They can't move well in space and aren't quick enough to make the cuts and changes of direction needed to be a deep safety. They play well in the box and make plays at the line of scrimmage, but get burned deep.

 

Do you know why big cornerbacks play press coverage? I won't tell you, but please explain to me the differences in press man, off man, and zone coverage as it pertains to change of direction and playing in space.

Edited by BmoreBird22
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List me several safeties over 6'1". That's starting to become about the norm for cornerbacks. I don't want ones that are 6'1", like Ihedigbo and Pollard (even though neither are special). I want them to be at least 6'2" or above because you said safeties are usually bigger.

Do you know why I picked those particular names? Because they're considered to be the better safeties in the league right now. Hell, even Ronnie Lott was only 6'0" tall and he's considered to be the best safety ever. Am I saying that a safety has to be short to be good? No, but that's more often than not the case.

 

I'm glad you mention both Pollard and Ihedigbo. How often are they in center field or deep coverage? Rarely because they both suck at it. They can't move well in space and aren't quick enough to make the cuts and changes of direction needed to be a deep safety. They play well in the box and make plays at the line of scrimmage, but get burned deep.

 

Do you know why big cornerbacks play press coverage? I won't tell you, but please explain to me the differences in press man, off man, and zone coverage as it pertains to change of direction and playing in space.

 

 

The problem with your theory about short safeties is that for every one that you listed there are dozens who get cut and go work for Target, theres no pattern there just like theres no pattern for 220lb being too heavy to play safety, Eric Reid, Kam Chancellor, Laron Landry, William Moore are recent Pro Bowl selections... but wait, aren't they too big???

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The problem with your theory about short safeties is that for every one that you listed there are dozens who get cut and go work for Target, theres no pattern there just like theres no pattern for 220lb being too heavy to play safety, Eric Reid, Kam Chancellor, Laron Landry, William Moore are recent Pro Bowl selections... but wait, aren't they too big???

Laron Landry is not over 6'1" (6'0"). Eric Reid is not over 6'1" (6'1"). William Moore is not over 6'1" (6'1").  Only Kam Chancellor is. Three of the four you listed are strong safeties who are not used as coverage safeties.

 

You also dodged my question about coverages.

 

I also said  "Am I saying that a safety has to be short to be good? No, but that's more often than not the case.", but good try.

Edited by BmoreBird22
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Laron Landry is not over 6'1" (6'0"). Eric Reid is not over 6'1" (6'1"). William Moore is not over 6'1" (6'1").  Only Kam Chancellor is. Three of the four you listed are strong safeties who are not used as coverage safeties.

 

You also dodged my question about coverages.

 

I also said  "Am I saying that a safety has to be short to be good? No, but that's more often than not the case.", but good try.

 

 

When did this become only about height? I said safeties are bigger than corners. Marlon Brown is taller than Brandon Williams, but is he bigger? no he isn't. If your entire argument is that it's "more often than not the case" then you're not really saying anything about Browner other than (presumably) there aren't many safeties who are 6'4".

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Let's just end the Browner at S talk.  It's not going to happen, and even if it did, he wouldn't fit here as he'd be relegated strictly to SS.

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