Ausman

There are better Left Tackle Options

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I say after Friday we should forget about Monre if we don't sign him by then.

 

Another strong second option (or should I say 1B option) should be Jared Veldheer from the Raiders. He's bigger and stronger and closely resembles J.Ogden.

 

We need size especially the fact that our o-line was being overpowered. I also credit that to not having a healthy K.O. at Guard.

 

I would go with the bigger and stronger Tackle at this point and I heard rumors that Veldheer can hanlde 2 D-lineman at once. That guy is a hulk and could come at a cheaper price, which is a bonus considering the money that the Ravens need to save up to fill other needs. Size does matter!

 

Thoughts?

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Regardless of anyone's opinion of bringing him in, he is further proof that quality players can be found outside of the top 10 in the draft.

 

Just say no to a $10M+ Monroe

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 Jared Veldheer is good. Monroe I feel is a better scheme fit as far as Kubiak is concerned

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I am debating whether we take a chance on a rookie at the blind side or go out and get someone like Veldheer.  If he is so good, then why would the Raiders not resign him?

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there are other options.  But Monroe is clearly the best LT on the market, and I think he knows that.  

 

Regardless of anyone's opinion of bringing him in, he is further proof that quality players can be found outside of the top 10 in the draft.

 

Just say no to a $10M+ Monroe

At LT it's rare.  Like... really really rare.

 

As in since 2008 there have been two quality LTs (to my knowledge, and I checked a little while ago) drafted outside the first round.  Veldheer and Baas from the giants.  LT and QB are the two positions that are just freakishly highly drafted

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Isn't he coming off a pretty big injury?

 

Yes he is but he's still very young and can recover quickly. Actually he has been recovering and should be ready for training camp.

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Would Valdheer even fit with the new scheme?  I don't pay much attention to Oline play outside of Baltimore but it seems in Monroe you have a very similar OL that Kubiak was always looking for in Houston.

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Except he's going to be just as expensive, if not more. Go with the guy that we know in Monroe. He's proven he can play in our system.

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We have to have Monroe. Now, there is a limit on that previous statement of course, but with us needing a right tackle and center, we do not need to go get a "new" left tackle as well. Bringing Monroe, Osemele, and Yanda back for Kubiak's offense is a very strong start to building a dominate offensive line again.

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I was scanning Raider forums and there is a thought there that because they're still in rebuilding mode, they don't need to pay a premium for Veldheer now, regardless of their cap space. They could draft a tackle, which would be a lot cheaper or they'll invest top dollar for someone they view as better than Veldheer later once they establish their QB. 

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I was scanning Raider forums and there is a thought there that because they're still in rebuilding mode, they don't need to pay a premium for Veldheer now, regardless of their cap space. They could draft a tackle, which would be a lot cheaper or they'll invest top dollar for someone they view as better than Veldheer later once they establish their QB. 

 

Not that it means everything, but so far the Raiders have met with every projected first round quarterback plus Mettenberger and Thomas, and no offensive linemen.  We'll see how this week plays out, but I personally would be very surprised if they let Veldheer hit the open market.  I think they're looking to take a QB in the first round, and want their left tackle in place.  The reality of the situation is we can't make a play for Veldheer until next week at the earliest, and if the Raiders want him, they're going to keep him.

Edited by Ravenslifer
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The fact of the matter is that Ozzie knew when he sent a 4th and 5th rounder (which he rarely does) that he would need to pay up when the time comes for the new acquisition. If Ozzie doesn't resign Monroe and we lose him than the trade would have been a a complete bust...and I don't think Oz wants that on his resume. He will do everything possible with every penny of cap space that he possibly can to resign Monroe to a contract he deems fair to both sides. If Monroe really wants 10 mill per year Miami may be the only place for him.

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Would Valdheer even fit with the new scheme? I don't pay much attention to Oline play outside of Baltimore but it seems in Monroe you have a very similar OL that Kubiak was always looking for in Houston.

I'm not sure we really even know what that scheme is....I think they are just now handing out playbooks.

If it's anything like the one in Houston, he's not a great fit, but he should be fine

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I think the general consensus is that Monroe is the best LT available. I hope we get his deal done. 

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I'm not sure we really even know what that scheme is....I think they are just now handing out playbooks.

If it's anything like the one in Houston, he's not a great fit, but he should be fine

Thats more what I meant, assuming Kubiak uses the exact same scheme.  I don't think Valdheer fits that very well.

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The fact of the matter is that Ozzie knew when he sent a 4th and 5th rounder (which he rarely does) that he would need to pay up when the time comes for the new acquisition. If Ozzie doesn't resign Monroe and we lose him than the trade would have been a a complete bust...and I don't think Oz wants that on his resume. He will do everything possible with every penny of cap space that he possibly can to resign Monroe to a contract he deems fair to both sides. If Monroe really wants 10 mill per year Miami may be the only place for him.

I don't know why everyone keeps complaining about losing the picks we gave for Monroe. I'm pretty sure if we lose him we get similar comp picks next year and it would be a wash.

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The fact of the matter is that Ozzie knew when he sent a 4th and 5th rounder (which he rarely does) that he would need to pay up when the time comes for the new acquisition. If Ozzie doesn't resign Monroe and we lose him than the trade would have been a a complete bust...and I don't think Oz wants that on his resume. He will do everything possible with every penny of cap space that he possibly can to resign Monroe to a contract he deems fair to both sides. If Monroe really wants 10 mill per year Miami may be the only place for him.

 

If he leaves via free agency I imagine we would pick up a 3rd round comp pick. Either way I'm sure Ozzie treats the trade as a sunk cost and it plays no factor in deciding how much they think Monroe is worth, if he wants more than the Ravens value him at, he is going to leave. 

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I don't know why everyone keeps complaining about losing the picks we gave for Monroe. I'm pretty sure if we lose him we get similar comp picks next year and it would be a wash.

If we lose him, it would probably be because he signed elsewhere for 9-11 million (and we shouldn't pay 11 mil).  If that's the case, we'd probably get a 3rd or maybe a 4th round pick.  We can always use another 3rd round pick in 2015, but I wouldn't quite say it's a wash.  A young, known, solid left tackle is worth more than a mid rounder.  They aren't quite a dime a dozen.

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If he leaves via free agency I imagine we would pick up a 3rd round comp pick. Either way I'm sure Ozzie treats the trade as a sunk cost and it plays no factor in deciding how much they think Monroe is worth, if he wants more than the Ravens value him at, he is going to leave. 

it depends on how much you spend in free agency on urfa as well.

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I really believe if we don't sign Monroe we will be a sub 500 team next year. 

 

Why in the world would we want to rebuild the offense with a 120 million dollar Qb is beyond me?

 

Keep what we have and Give Joe the pieces he needs to progress. 

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Veldheer should be more expensive, but the analists aren't plugging him as much as they are giddy over Monroe.

 

Supposing we had to pay Veldheer more, it will be well worth it. He's getting very good.

 

The issues was the torn triceps last year. He came back and started the last four of five games without allowing a sack.

 

His run blocking is awesome.

 

Pay the Man, lure him away, make him a Raven, make Flacco's day.

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If he leaves via free agency I imagine we would pick up a 3rd round comp pick. Either way I'm sure Ozzie treats the trade as a sunk cost and it plays no factor in deciding how much they think Monroe is worth, if he wants more than the Ravens value him at, he is going to leave. 

 

Exactly - right player, right price. 

 

Our cost will end up being offset by a likely 3rd round comp pick which one would argue is equivalent to the 4th rounder we gave up this year.  Some are even speculating that he will end up with the largest FA contract this offseason.

 

Basically we gave up a 2014 5th rounder for half a season of Monroe + a good shot a re-signing him.  If he chooses to leave for money over slightly less money and a shot a championship every year in his prime we can't change that. 

 

We can always go with one of the lesser name free agent tackles and re-sign Oher to solidify the right side.  I can't see him getting too many big offers out in the market.  This would also leave Ozzie with many more millions in cap space to load up the roster.  Almost $25 million is a lot more than we have had for many years.  Couple that with a strong draft and development of our 2013 draft class and we're right back in the hunt for that Lombardi.

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I think Monroe just being associated being a Ravens raised his value significantly high.

 

I can't see him being the "#1 FA" if he was still with the jags.   

 

Would Ellerbe/Kruger ever got what they gained if they weren't w/ us with the same production somewhere else?  I think not.

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I think Ravens will get Monroe but personally I think center is in question.  I think center needs to be bigger.

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If we lose him, it would probably be because he signed elsewhere for 9-11 million (and we shouldn't pay 11 mil).  If that's the case, we'd probably get a 3rd or maybe a 4th round pick.  We can always use another 3rd round pick in 2015, but I wouldn't quite say it's a wash.  A young, known, solid left tackle is worth more than a mid rounder.  They aren't quite a dime a dozen.

 

 

The point was made concerning the picks we traded to get him, not Monroe himself.

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so what are these better options?

read my post again! We only be talking about him for so long...Jared Veldheer!

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Regardless of anyone's opinion of bringing him in, he is further proof that quality players can be found outside of the top 10 in the draft.

 

Just say no to a $10M+ Monroe

This message sponsored by the guy who thought Mike Adams could actually do something in the nfl

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I don't know why everyone keeps complaining about losing the picks we gave for Monroe. I'm pretty sure if we lose him we get similar comp picks next year and it would be a wash.

Ozzie is generally a conservative guy when it comes to trades...we could have used those picks THIS YEAR on some depth players or in trades to move up in certain rounds.

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This message sponsored by the guy who thought Mike Adams could actually do something in the nfl

Yes, my bad. I guess that means I'm not batting 1.000 when picking busts/successful draft prospects. Your point?

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read my post again! We only be talking about him for so long...Jared Veldheer!

 

Veldheer is not  better then monroe and he is injure prone as well.

 

He will probaly make about the same as monroe as well and he is older lol.

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Yes, my bad. I guess that means I'm not batting 1.000 when picking busts/successful draft prospects. Your point?

/joke

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The fact of the matter is that Ozzie knew when he sent a 4th and 5th rounder (which he rarely does) that he would need to pay up when the time comes for the new acquisition. If Ozzie doesn't resign Monroe and we lose him than the trade would have been a a complete bust...and I don't think Oz wants that on his resume. He will do everything possible with every penny of cap space that he possibly can to resign Monroe to a contract he deems fair to both sides. If Monroe really wants 10 mill per year Miami may be the only place for him.

 

Lets just go over some facts real quick:

 

-By acquiring Eugene Monroe the Ravens were able to dump an inefficient Bryant McKinnie - who was playing overweight, out of shape, and was getting Joe Flacco killed from the blindside. Between him and Osemele's injured back, the run to the left side was virtually non-existent. And the Ravens were completely fed up with his effort and work ethic. He had to go.

 

-The Ravens will receive a 2015 draft pick for trading Bryant McKinnie to the Dolphins.

 

-The Ravens saved $2 million dollars in cap space for the 2014 season by dumping McKinnies contract in 2013.

 

-The Ravens only had to pay $547,000 of Eugene Monroe's $3.8 Million salary for 2013.

 

-At the time we only had $1.2 million in available cap space -  so because of that Ozzie negotiated that Jacksonville pay Eugene Monroe $2.35 million in the form of a signing bonus to offset his remaining $2.91 base salary for the rest of the year (the Jags already paid Monroe $715,000 through the first 4 games)

 

-By trading for Eugene Monroe we were able to immediately fix a dire problem as well as provide our newly paid $120 Million dollar Franchise Quarterback some protection from the blindside pass rush...we were also able to get sufficient play from the position and had exclusive rights to negotiate with one of the top 10 LTs in the league before anyone else could. 

 

-We still have the advantage of negotiating with him before any other team can offer him a contract. Unfortunately, we havent been able to reach common grounds yet; which means, he's probably going to hit free agency. However, we did expose him to a winning and 1st class organization for an entire year with top of the line facilities, players, management and coaches. Which will weigh heavily in the direction he decides to move forward in after spending the first 4 years of his career with a perennial loser.

 

**IF WE'RE UNABLE TO SIGN MONROE TO A LONG-TERM CONTRACT WE'LL MORE THAN LIKELY BE COMPENSATED  WITH A 3RD ROUND COMPENSATORY PICK NEXT YEAR**

 

So pretty much we got Eugene Monroe (top 10 LT)  for free with the chance to re-sign him before anyone else could even talk to him. We upgraded a position of need during the 2013 season. We got rid of deadout of shape weight (McKinnie) and cleared his cap from the 2014 season which provided us with $2million in additional space. And as a backup - in case we failed to lock up Monroe  with a contract - we essentially traded a 4th and a 5th for a 3rd and a 6th (McKinnie Trade)

 

I dont think you can sit there and reasonably argue that trading for Monroe last season was a bust - even if he signs with someone else. Ozzie is the best at what he does for a reason. I'm just saying 

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I think Ravens will get Monroe but personally I think center is in question.  I think center needs to be bigger.

 

I'm actually not as worried, there are a surprising number of veteran free agents available at center - Costa, Wendell, De La Puente, just to name a few.  I'd be shocked if one of them wasn't on the roster sometime next week.

Edited by Ravenslifer
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Veldheer is not  better then monroe and he is injure prone as well.

 

He will probaly make about the same as monroe as well and he is older lol.

 

Not to mention the Raiders can easily resign him with the amount of cap space they have.

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Lets just go over some facts real quick:

-By acquiring Eugene Monroe the Ravens were able to dump an inefficient Bryant McKinnie - who was playing overweight, out of shape, and was getting Joe Flacco killed from the blindside. Between him and Osemele's injured back, the run to the left side was virtually non-existent. And the Ravens were completely fed up with his effort and work ethic. He had to go.

-The Ravens will receive a 2015 draft pick for trading Bryant McKinnie to the Dolphins.

-The Ravens saved $2 million dollars in cap space for the 2014 season by dumping McKinnies contract in 2013.

-The Ravens only had to pay $547,000 of Eugene Monroe's $3.8 Million salary for 2013.

-At the time we only had $1.2 million in available cap space - so because of that Ozzie negotiated that Jacksonville pay Eugene Monroe $2.35 million in the form of a signing bonus to offset his remaining $2.91 base salary for the rest of the year (the Jags already paid Monroe $715,000 through the first 4 games)

-By trading for Eugene Monroe we were able to immediately fix a dire problem as well as provide our newly paid $120 Million dollar Franchise Quarterback some protection from the blindside pass rush...we were also able to get sufficient play from the position and had exclusive rights to negotiate with one of the top 10 LTs in the league before anyone else could.

-We still have the advantage of negotiating with him before any other team can offer him a contract. Unfortunately, we havent been able to reach common grounds yet; which means, he's probably going to hit free agency. However, we did expose him to a winning and 1st class organization for an entire year with top of the line facilities, players, management and coaches. Which will weigh heavily in the direction he decides to move forward in after spending the first 4 years of his career with a perennial loser.

**IF WE'RE UNABLE TO SIGN MONROE TO A LONG-TERM CONTRACT WE'LL MORE THAN LIKELY BE COMPENSATED WITH A 3RD ROUND COMPENSATORY PICK NEXT YEAR**

So pretty much we got Eugene Monroe (top 10 LT) for free with the chance to re-sign him before anyone else could even talk to him. We upgraded a position of need during the 2013 season. We got rid of deadout of shape weight (McKinnie) and cleared his cap from the 2014 season which provided us with $2million in additional space. And as a backup - in case we failed to lock up Monroe with a contract - we essentially traded a 4th and a 5th for a 3rd and a 6th (McKinnie Trade)

I dont think you can sit there and reasonably argue that trading for Monroe last season was a bust - even if he signs with someone else. Ozzie is the best at what he does for a reason. I'm just saying

repped
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I really believe if we don't sign Monroe we will be a sub 500 team next year.

Why in the world would we want to rebuild the offense with a 120 million dollar Qb is beyond me?

Keep what we have and Give Joe the pieces he needs to progress.

So having Monroe last year made us an above 500 team lol
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Monroe should not receive a contract more than 8 million, I still firmly say stick with 7 million. Anything more and you have to be prepared to let him walk.

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The thread should read, "Are There Better LT Options?" 

We assume this is strictly a money issue but outside of that. If there are better options available, I don't see them.

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Monroe should not receive a contract more than 8 million, I still firmly say stick with 7 million. Anything more and you have to be prepared to let him walk.

OK! Let him walk if you cannot afford him but 7 million is around 40% under the franchise tag number of 11 million for LTs. By contrast Pitta's contract number was over the tag for TEs. I am not saying Monroe should get 11 million but 7 is an insult and 8 million also seems low (unless its a one year deal) for the top rated LT in free agency.

 

Have to add: A contract of 9+ million seems fair unless he is less than rated.  

Edited by HoldingCall
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The thread should read, "Are There Better LT Options?"

We assume this is strictly a money issue but outside of that. If there are better options available, I don't see them.

Or there are better LT options for our offensive scheme

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Let's put it this way - if Ozzie never traded for Eugene Monroe and we had to sit through an entire year of watching Bryant McKinnie struggle in all phases of the game and the Jaguars let Eugene Monroe hit free agency and we signed him to a $10 mill a year contract, this board would be lighting up like a Christmas tree in December proclaiming how magical the great Wizard of Oz is for signing one of the best LTs in the game, filling our biggest need with the best free agent in this years Market. People would be making threads about Dynasties and how this is our year to win it all again...

 

But for whatever reason, i guess because he was on our team last year the sentiment isnt as high and we look at it as signing a top 10 left tackle is an expensive "commodity". I think people with proper perspective understand just how important Eugene Monroe is to our organization and everyone else is just playing fantasy football.

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The thread should read, "Are There Better LT Options?"

We assume this is strictly a money issue but outside of that. If there are better options available, I don't see them.

But that isn't being discussed. It should read There are other options at LT, none of them better.

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Let's put it this way - if Ozzie never traded for Eugene Monroe and we had to sit through an entire year of watching Bryant McKinnie struggle in all phases of the game and the Jaguars let Eugene Monroe hit free agency and we signed him to a $10 mill a year contract, this board would be lighting up like a Christmas tree in December proclaiming how magical the great Wizard of Oz is for signing one of the best LTs in the game, filling our biggest need with the best free agent in this years Market. People would be making threads about Dynasties and how this is our year to win it all again...

 

But for whatever reason, i guess because he was on our team last year the sentiment isnt as high and we look at it as signing a top 10 left tackle is an expensive "commodity". I think people with proper perspective understand just how important Eugene Monroe is to our organization and everyone else is just playing fantasy football.

Exactly!

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Let's put it this way -  If Ozzie never traded for Eugene Monroe and we had to sit through an entire year of watching Bryant McKinnie struggle in all phases of the game and the Jaguars let Eugene Monroe hit free agency and we signed him to a $10 mill a year contract, this board would be lighting up like a Christmas tree in December proclaiming how magical the great Wizard of Oz is for signing one of the best LTs in the game, filling our biggest need with the best free agent in this years Market. People would be making threads about Dynasties and how this is our year to win it all again...

 

But for whatever reason, i guess because he was on our team last year the sentiment isnt as high and we look at it as signing a top 10 left tackle is an expensive "commodity". I think people with proper perspective understand just how important Eugene Monroe is to our organization and everyone else is just playing fantasy football.

If is a big 2 letter word. We could have used those 2 draft picks to move up to get a high grade LT in the draft for much cheaper. Maybe he also wants more than 10 mil plus you'd be fighting the same teams for his rights.. This is all hyperbole. Also when did he become one of the best. He wasn't even rated in the top 10. Oz did the right thing by not franchising or offering him the transition tag. If he would signed the tag and not come to a deal our cap would be crippled and then we'd be dealing with the same mess next year. He also would have had the upper hand in negotiations.

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If is a big 2 letter word. We could have used those 2 draft picks to move up to get a high grade LT in the draft for much cheaper. Maybe he also wants more than 10 mil plus you'd be fighting the same teams for his rights.. This is all hyperbole. Also when did he become one of the best. He wasn't even rated in the top 10. Oz did the right thing by not franchising or offering him the transition tag. If he would signed the tag and not come to a deal our cap would be crippled and then we'd be dealing with the same mess next year. He also would have had the upper hand in negotiations.

 

IF you want to play it that way, IF can be a fun game to play. What happens IF Greg Robinson doesn't declare for the draft (being that he's a junior ) and returns to Auburn for his senior year? Now there would only be 2 top 10 tackles in this years draft which would narrow the odds even further of us drafting one of them, requiring us to probably trade up into the top 5. But that's no fun. So lets just say for the sake of argument, that we could still land one of the top 2 tackles IF we could manage to trade up into the 10. Ok, so IF we didn't trade our 4th and 5th away last year we would have all but our 7th round pick to make a trade with IF someone would even be willing to trade with us. 

 

So, according to the NFL Draft Pick Value Chart created by Coach Jimmy Johnson, lets see how much value we would have to give up in order just to make it into the top 10.

 

draftvaluechart-712691.gif

 

In this scenario our picks would be: 1st round #17 (950 points), 2nd round #48(420 points), 3rd round #79(195 points) , 4th round #110(74 points), 5th round #147(32.6 points) and 6th round #178(21.2 points)

(IF only we didn't lose the coin flip to Dallas)

 

IF we wanted to get into the top 10 we would have to come up with a trade value of 1300 points. (We could do that now with our current 1st and 2nd round picks; which wouldn't require the 4th and 5th you say we need, but lets not be irrational here cuz that would be a wee bit to IFFY for me) We would have to give up our 1st + 3rd + 4th + 5th + 6th just to equal 1308.8. OUCH! and that's just for pick #10!

 

Do you see where I'm going with this?

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If is a big 2 letter word. We could have used those 2 draft picks to move up to get a high grade LT in the draft for much cheaper. Maybe he also wants more than 10 mil plus you'd be fighting the same teams for his rights.. This is all hyperbole. Also when did he become one of the best. He wasn't even rated in the top 10. Oz did the right thing by not franchising or offering him the transition tag. If he would signed the tag and not come to a deal our cap would be crippled and then we'd be dealing with the same mess next year. He also would have had the upper hand in negotiations.

1. Where is he not rated as a top 10 left tackle?

2. You want to rely on a rookie, when several bust, but wouldn't want to pay for the proven commodity?

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