Incognito, Jerry or Pouncey possible career rehab in Baltimore?

[HoldingCall]

I am 27 years old. Old enough to realize that a lockerroom for an all men's team CANNOT be compared to a real work enviornment with a real HR department. Shouldn't everyone know that? You are putting these entertainers in the same class as us and they aren't. A lockerroom isn't an office building. It's not a classroom.

 

This right here just shows the wussification of the world. I am totally against bullying whether cyber bullying or in school or wherever. But these are grown men. The NFL is a fraternity. Why don't you guys get that?

If Jonathan Martin was uncomfortable, he should of handled it like an adult. Instead he made it a media circus. Martin is the most immature one out of all of them. His text messages are just as bad butt Ritchie's.

 

This is just wrong! There are examples in all walks of life, including the NFL, where kids grew up around drugs, thieves and robbers. Some escaped that mentality and way of life while others, because it surrounded them, see it as normal and fall into the recurring routine.

 

The behavior that transpired should not be defended nor excused but should be encourage to end. Like the example above most of that nonsense is handed down from a previous generation but it's time to take a look at the cause and effect. 

[HoldingCall]

To the people that said why? Pouncey > gradkowski. We have a team full of softies with no attitude on offense. Minus Leach and maybe Yanda, I would love to have a nasty center, when people don't want to go up against

Jonathan Ogden proved a lineman can be Hall of Fame tough with class.

[BloodRaven]

Said by a man who has never been on the bottom of the food chain. Sure everyone should have confidence and intelligence and charm and beauty and wealth and health and great parents and cake on their birthday. Maybe even a few people should have compassion, hmmm? Guess what? Everyone doesn't.

 

Some people are shy or non-confrontational, or introverted, or unsure of themselves, or just want to do their job and go home without putting up with a lot of BS. And maybe some people are hesitant to speak up and stand their ground because they don't want the "guys" in the locker room to look down on them.

 

Or maybe the guy was just a big wuss.

 

Heres the thing, this isn't a place to nurture and protect physically or mentally weak people. We're talking about the NFL, it's cutthroat and the harsh reality is there is no place for soft players physically or mentally.

 

It's not completely unlike the marines, they have to weed out those who are physically or mentally incapable by breaking them down with drill sergeants and language that would make Incognito uncomfortable. Some that are broken down will be built back up stronger, others will fold like paper.

[Tank 92]

Heres the thing, this isn't a place to nurture and protect physically or mentally weak people. We're talking about the NFL, it's cutthroat and the harsh reality is there is no place for soft players physically or mentally.

 

It's not completely unlike the marines, they have to weed out those who are physically or mentally incapable by breaking them down with drill sergeants and language that would make Incognito uncomfortable. Some that are broken down will be built back up stronger, others will fold like paper.

 

 

I was just getting ready to post something similar. 

 

All of these comparisons to family life and instances of disrespect are completely irrelevant and the viewpoints are not divided by any generational understanding of respect and/or unacceptable behavior. This type of "hazing" didn't start in the last 20 years due to a lack of discipline at home. It's been going on forever, but is just much more visible now with the widespread use of social media and exposure on the internet/TV.

 

The NFL locker room has always been a tough guys forum and I would contend that the actions of Incognito and Pouncey should not be viewed as a product of the "soft" types of family discipline today, but condemning their actions is a result of that culture where anything and everyone is to be "PC" and where everyone should be given equal treatment. That viewpoint is fine in everyday social interaction, but not in a professional sport where men are getting paid millions of $ to perform and depend upon each other for their level of success.  I'm not condoning what they did, but do understand their motive in trying to "toughen up" a weak team mate.

[Poes Crows]

If big mouthed guys like Pollard couldn't last in a Harbaugh locker room, how the hell is one of those guys going to? 

 

Yeah

 

With the loss of Lewis and Reed, we also don't have the same leadership.  Suggs may not even be back.  The Pouncey's are still wrapped up in that Urban Meyer University of Florida Thug Gang investigation.  There's no guarantee they won't be implicated.

 

It's a pass all the way around.

 

If Management couldn't tolerate Pollard, how would they remotely consider these guys.

 

The last thing the Raven's need right now are social experiments. 

[runamuk]

I was just getting ready to post something similar. 

 

All of these comparisons to family life and instances of disrespect are completely irrelevant and the viewpoints are not divided by any generational understanding of respect and/or unacceptable behavior. This type of "hazing" didn't start in the last 20 years due to a lack of discipline at home. It's been going on forever, but is just much more visible now with the widespread use of social media and exposure on the internet/TV.

 

 

It's not completely unlike the marines, they have to weed out those who are physically or mentally incapable by breaking them down with drill sergeants and language that would make Incognito uncomfortable. Some that are broken down will be built back up stronger, others will fold like paper.

This situation can't be compared to military  it is a matter of life or death that every single soldier perform to the best of his ability . This is a game plain and simple. I was in the military for 17 years and I can assure you and others not once in all that time did  I  or others use "the incognito method of training " and we  never made threats like the ones here. I agree that in all locker rooms there is hazing but not like this it was way over the line. If it was your sister, mother, wife, girlfriend etc . would you still find all of this acceptable the threats the derogatory comments ...

 

One more thing I saw posted earlier and not one Incognito supporter has answered Why did the trainer have to be broken down and built back up he's not expected to perform or play football ever.

[beasy2487]

It's interesting that the same fans that whine about our media perception want to make moves like these. The winter of wanting to have the cake and eat it too continues.

[Alexir]

This is just wrong! There are examples in all walks of life, including the NFL, where kids grew up around drugs, thieves and robbers. Some escaped that mentality and way of life while others, because it surrounded them, see it as normal and fall into the recurring routine.

 

The behavior that transpired should not be defended nor excused but should be encourage to end. Like the example above most of that nonsense is handed down from a previous generation but it's time to take a look at the cause and effect. 

 

An opinion is never wrong. You can disagree with it but I can ensure you, it is not wrong. And I would love to hear with NFLPA would say since this stuff probably happens in every lockerroom to a degree.

 

Martin is soft. This isn't accounting, engineering, data entry, etc. These are adults playing a childs game for millions of dollars and I question him as a man when some teammate is bad mouthing your sister like that and you don't rock him in the face the second that crap comes out of his mouth.

 

I do not know why you are talking about drugs and crime....this is stuff that goes on in a highschool locker room, college locker room and obviously NFL locker rooms. Have you never seen this before?

[BirdWatcher]

These players are all supposed to be professionals. Maybe they should act like it. There was nothing "professional" about any of this. Players and management keep trying to convince everyone this is a business. Well this crap would not be tolerated in any "business". There really is no excuse for the level of abuse that occurred. Time to clean house and wipe out this stain on the NFL.

[jaege]

Heres the thing, this isn't a place to nurture and protect physically or mentally weak people. We're talking about the NFL, it's cutthroat and the harsh reality is there is no place for soft players physically or mentally.

 

It's not completely unlike the marines, they have to weed out those who are physically or mentally incapable by breaking them down with drill sergeants and language that would make Incognito uncomfortable. Some that are broken down will be built back up stronger, others will fold like paper.

 

 

This situation can't be compared to military  it is a matter of life or death that every single soldier perform to the best of his ability . This is a game plain and simple. I was in the military for 17 years and I can assure you and others not once in all that time did  I  or others use "the incognito method of training " and we  never made threats like the ones here. I agree that in all locker rooms there is hazing but not like this it was way over the line. If it was your sister, mother, wife, girlfriend etc . would you still find all of this acceptable the threats the derogatory comments ...

 

One more thing I saw posted earlier and not one Incognito supporter has answered Why did the trainer have to be broken down and built back up he's not expected to perform or play football ever.

 

 

I was in the military too, and I can also assure you that runamuk is correct. That sort of action would NEVER be condone and have had someone being severely punished. Severely. Punished. Sure hazing went on, and if you were caught doing it you could consign your soul to God,...

 

Physically or mentally weak players should be released, not abused, degraded and tormented. I am hardly saying I know what happened. It could be that Incognito was completely blameless and Martin was over reacting or flat out lying. Or maybe he was trying to maintain a professional attitude and keep his cushy job, rather than "rock" someone in the face, since that route is both unprofessional and infantile.I agree, football is a tough job, and the benefits do require a certain amount of resilience. Maybe it is not the job for Martin, but that is for his coaches and managers to decide, not the other players and certainly not by "hazing" him into toughness.

 

Sure, this sort of thing has been going on forever. It is just now that the neanderthal attitudes are being spotlighted and corrective measures are being taken, as they should be. Yes these guys are getting paid millions of dollars, but they are getting paid to do a job, not get abused. or degraded Not to get "toughened up". Not to get made someone else's definition of a man. To do a job. If they do not perform they get fired, like any other job.

[Alexir]

These players are all supposed to be professionals. Maybe they should act like it. There was nothing "professional" about any of this. Players and management keep trying to convince everyone this is a business. Well this crap would not be tolerated in any "business". There really is no excuse for the level of abuse that occurred. Time to clean house and wipe out this stain on the NFL.

 

What's professional about watching 2 of your friends kill people and flee the scene in Atlanta? What's professional about drinking and driving and hitting a pedestrian and killing him? What's professional about drug trafficking? What's professional about getting hammered on a party bus and getting hit on the head with a champagne bottle by a stripper?

 

Do you know what is also unprofessional that happens to every team? Unsportsmanlike conduct penalties. If I did that stuff, I would get fired. ANOTHER OBVIOUS REASON why we cannot compare a NFL locker room to the real world.

[Alexir]

Of all the people saying Martin is a Victim, how many of you read the texts between him and Ritchie?

[The Raven]

Are people really this outraged?

 

I guess you just had to have been in a locker room to actually get it. This thread is really dividing the people who seem to have actually played the game and people who haven't.

[Alexir]

Are people really this outraged?

 

I guess you just had to have been in a locker room to actually get it. This thread is really dividing the people who seem to have actually played the game and people who haven't.

Quote The Raven EVERMORE.

 

Yeah, I just think it's silly that people compare their careers to that of all male entertainers in a lockerroom. It's totally different.

[runamuk]

What's professional about watching 2 of your friends kill people and flee the scene in Atlanta? What's professional about drinking and driving and hitting a pedestrian and killing him? What's professional about drug trafficking? What's professional about getting hammered on a party bus and getting hit on the head with a champagne bottle by a stripper?

 

 

 

Of all the people saying Martin is a Victim, how many of you read the texts between him and Ritchie?

I read all of the texts and the entire report. I still think Incognito and the his friends were wrong.  we are not so far off in our thinking because your first post here is dead on. why do we tolerate criminal behavior just because someone can play football ?

Your other post is dead on too I would knock someone out if they even dared to address my family like this.

[runamuk]

Are people really this outraged?

 

I guess you just had to have been in a locker room to actually get it. This thread is really dividing the people who seem to have actually played the game and people who haven't.

I coach for a living and although some hazing does occur not  to this degree and abusing the coaching staff gets you kicked off the team period and depending on the violation loss of scholarship and even expulsion from the school  . Not just where I work its not tolerated in most locker rooms.

[Alexir]

I read all of the texts and the entire report. I still think Incognito and the his friends were wrong.  we are not so far off in our thinking because your first post here is dead on. why do we tolerate criminal behavior just because someone can play football ?

Your other post is dead on too I would knock someone out if they even dared to address my family like this.

 

Do I think Incognito, Pouncey, and Jerry took it too far? I don't know, going off the report, I would say yeah but going off the report Martin is  a liar so I don't know what to believe. Ritchie seems like an obnoxious, attention craving moron. Howerver, I saw the way Martin talked to ritchie via text. They were like best friends.

 

They are not innocent but others should of manned up, pulled them aside and told them to knock it off.

 

It's over and done with though. I don't think they should lose their jobs over this and I am sure they learned their lesson and it won't be this "extreme" next time around...

 

And yeah, I can't believe Martin let them talk about his family like that. This shows me they were provoking Martin to swing, to show some anger. I really think they did it on purpose to try and make him tougher since he was  a turnstile for them for 2 seasons.

[runamuk]

Do I think Incognito, Pouncey, and Jerry took it too far? I don't know, going off the report, I would say yeah but going off the report Martin is  a liar so I don't know what to believe. Ritchie seems like an obnoxious, attention craving moron. Howerver, I saw the way Martin talked to ritchie via text. They were like best friends.

 

They are not innocent but others should of manned up, pulled them aside and told them to knock it off.

 

It's over and done with though. I don't think they should lose their jobs over this and I am sure they learned their lesson and it won't be this "extreme" next time around...

 

And yeah, I can't believe Martin let them talk about his family like that. This shows me they were provoking Martin to swing, to show some anger. I really think they did it on purpose to try and make him tougher since he was  a turnstile for them for 2 seasons.

I stated previously I think they are all wrong Martin included and he is not a good tackle  and for that reason I rather not have him and the others for obvious reasons. Its hard to figure out the truth when everyone including the coaches are lying.

[Tank 92]

I was in the military too, and I can also assure you that runamuk is correct. That sort of action would NEVER be condone and have had someone being severely punished. Severely. Punished. Sure hazing went on, and if you were caught doing it you could consign your soul to God,...

 

Physically or mentally weak players should be released, not abused, degraded and tormented. I am hardly saying I know what happened. It could be that Incognito was completely blameless and Martin was over reacting or flat out lying. Or maybe he was trying to maintain a professional attitude and keep his cushy job, rather than "rock" someone in the face, since that route is both unprofessional and infantile.I agree, football is a tough job, and the benefits do require a certain amount of resilience. Maybe it is not the job for Martin, but that is for his coaches and managers to decide, not the other players and certainly not by "hazing" him into toughness.

 

Sure, this sort of thing has been going on forever. It is just now that the neanderthal attitudes are being spotlighted and corrective measures are being taken, as they should be. Yes these guys are getting paid millions of dollars, but they are getting paid to do a job, not get abused. or degraded Not to get "toughened up". Not to get made someone else's definition of a man. To do a job. If they do not perform they get fired, like any other job.

 

 

Sounds like you were a Coasty.       Just kidding.

 

I agree that weaker players should be cut rather than ridiculed in attempts to toughen them. But I don't think we are getting the true view or story of what went on here.  I could be wrong, but am always skeptical of the way things are reported and framed in the public forum. 

[Alexir]

What truly bullied person texts their friend to see if they wanna go out to dinner or go out to a strip club?

 

"Hey, you make my life a living hell at practice, but do you wanna check out my new place then go out to dinner? Oh yeah, thanks for letting me leave my car at your place last night as I was too drunk to drive"

 

 

Martin needs help...it just doesn't make sense and the way Pouncey and Incognito were shocked in their text messages just shows how fishy this whole thing is..

[arnie_uk]

Give and receive this type of banter regularly. 23 yr old uk male not in a sports team since I was 18 due to studying commitments in a professional office environment.

This is Regular in all walks of life, taking the hand out of friends about their sis mum gf

[rmw10]

I think everyone is in the wrong here.  Despite it not being the typical workplace, the "bullies" are wrong as is Martin.

 

Even with all of the information we've been given, I don't think we'll ever know who was right and wrong here.  I think it's best just to avoid them all and all of the issues that come with them.  Even if Incognito is innocent, I think he's burned his chances in the NFL by simply adding onto his past transgression.  Martin might get another shot because he was a promising prospect, but  I doubt he fits here because he was regarded as soft coming out of college.  This situation only furthered that fear.  Jerry simply isn't good enough to be worth any risk of taking him on.  Pouncey is the question mark.  He could be worth it, but he could not. It sounds like he's an butt, but he isn't the center of the investigation.  I'd consider him if the price was low, but ultimately, I'm not sure if we'd be willing to take on the risk.

[Tank 92]

 This is a game plain and simple. 

 

 

Well, since the average NFL team is worth close to a couple of billion $, I would say it's much more than just a game, especially to those who earn a living playing it. 

 

Again, I don't condone the type of verbal abuse that went on, but things like this are the norm in a locker room and I doubt that anything changes, although I'm sure it will be toned down and not be so graphic. This is another facet of social media that begs for it to just go away. 

[BirdWatcher]

What's professional about watching 2 of your friends kill people and flee the scene in Atlanta? What's professional about drinking and driving and hitting a pedestrian and killing him? What's professional about drug trafficking? What's professional about getting hammered on a party bus and getting hit on the head with a champagne bottle by a stripper?

Do you know what is also unprofessional that happens to every team? Unsportsmanlike conduct penalties. If I did that stuff, I would get fired. ANOTHER OBVIOUS REASON why we cannot compare a NFL locker room to the real world.

Of course none of at stuff is acceptable, except maybe getting bopped on a party bus. The differences between those situations and this one are: 1) Penalties have been paid, in some cases very serious penalties and 2) those were not shown to be repeated patterns.

This Dolphin mess is not something that happened a few times...it was a long-term pattern of abuse.

[arnie_uk]

Of course none of at stuff is acceptable. The differences between those situations and this one are: 1) Penalties have been paid, in some cases very serious penalties and 2) those were not shown to be repeated patterns.

This Dolphin mess is not something that happened a few times...it was a long-term pattern of abuse.

abuse that martin joined in on?

[BirdWatcher]

abuse that martin joined in on?

I'm not excusing him, either.

[arnie_uk]

Although this is a movie. Watch the machinist with Christian bale. Go to 7 mins. Bale Insults a fellow colleagues mum fellow colleague laughs it off. This happens daily in the lives of males these days.

The reply for 99 percent of males, find a better insult and it keeps going round and round. None of said insult are meant or should be taken to heart.

[arnie_uk]

Heck remember the titans though the whole racial message there is insults even gay jibes to other players

[Alexir]

Although this is a movie. Watch the machinist with Christian bale. Go to 7 mins. Bale Insults a fellow colleagues mum fellow colleague laughs it off. This happens daily in the lives of males these days.

The reply for 99 percent of males, find a better insult and it keeps going round and round. None of said insult are meant or should be taken to heart.

 

Yep. My buddies are planning my bachelor party in September, that will literally be a weekend of making fun of each other, each other's family members, spouses, girl friends, fiances, etc. That's how guys do it.

[The Raven]

Although this is a movie. Watch the machinist with Christian bale. Go to 7 mins. Bale Insults a fellow colleagues mum fellow colleague laughs it off. This happens daily in the lives of males these days.

The reply for 99 percent of males, find a better insult and it keeps going round and round. None of said insult are meant or should be taken to heart.

Heck remember the titans though the whole racial message there is insults even gay jibes to other players

Yep. My buddies are planning my bachelor party in September, that will literally be a weekend of making fun of each other, each other's family members, spouses, girl friends, fiances, etc. That's how guys do it.

 

This all happens in high school too. It's not just pro football guys that act like this. It's just the culture of a football locker room.

 

"That's how guys do it." Exactly that.