LB Courtney Upshaw

[Tru11]

Did he actually rush the QB or was he playing pass defense. 6oo times in passrush seems to be an awful lot of times for a situational player.

 

well my guess is that alot of those where PA and he was actually playing the run but it counted as a pass rush lol.

 

or it counted as a pass rush when he was asked to play the DT in certain situations...

 

i rarely saw him line up in eithers suggs or dumervil spot but the link with with the stats should clarify alot...

[The Raven]

 

OLB in a 3-4 need to be able to :

1 set the edge

2 rush the passer

3 be able to drop in zone coverage

4 be able to play man cov  when asked.

 

There are also 2 type of OLB:

weakside OLB and strongside OLB.

strongside usually lines up on the side the TE .

 

now lets get to suggs and dumervil.

 

suggs when drafted was only a pass rusher who never started and only came into the line up as a weakside OLB to rush the passer.

it took him a couple of seasons to become a good edge setter as the weakside OLB and it took him even longer to be able to drop in coverage and cover backs to a certain extend.

when he became good at all facets he actually became the defensive player of the year.

he however was not a complete OLB from the moment he got drafted.

 

dumevil is even more hilarious cause till this day he aint more then a pass rusher.

he isent a good edge setter and he is absolutely horrible in coverage let alone cover receivers .......

using him as a strongside OLB to set the edge is asking for trouble.

 

upshaw just finished his 2nd season  and he excells as an edge setter on the strongside , he can also drop in coverage on occasion but other then lookin in the backfield to cover backs he is much of a man cover olb.

anyone who saw him play in coverage or even botherd to read his scouting report knew what he was and knew what we are getting and so far he does what is being expected.

 

players that are considerd busts dont contribute to the team.

i find it hard to believe that anyone wants to claim that upshaw isen contributing..........

 

You have players who are role players fitting of 1 certain role and you have guys who can do it all.

 

why do you think mcclain is in to play the run and then goes out and arthur brown comes in to play the pass???

Why do you think they ask torrey smith to stretch the field and not to play boldin role???

Why do you think dickson is the 1 playing on run plays and pitta only comes in when its a pass play???

 

Is the term role player really not known???

 

He's a role player and you don't draft role players with the 35th overall pick. Period.

 

NFL 3-4 OLBs are expected to be able to set the edge AND rush the passer. That's just what it is dude. Coverage is actually a bonus for OLBs. I'll give Upshaw credit for being surprisingly good in coverage but the primary job of the 3-4 OLB is pass rushing, and there isn't a single DC, LB coach, or HC that will tell you otherwise. 

 

He's definitely not a bust, and I'm pretty sure I said that earlier. 

[Tru11]

cordalle patterson, tavon austin , giovanni bernard, zach ertz, vance mcdonald,lemicheal james,reuben randle,sylvester williams,gavin escobar, kawann short,cornellius carradine,jamie collins,montee ball,randall cobb enz.....

 

there are loads of 1st and 2nd rounders that are simply role players on their team.

either its the only role they can play or they have a veteran in front of them but none are starters all are role players.

 

teams drafting them knew they would be role players as well.

[gabefergy]

cordalle patterson, tavon austin , giovanni bernard, zach ertz, vance mcdonald,lemicheal james,reuben randle,sylvester williams,gavin escobar, kawann short,cornellius carradine,jamie collins,montee ball,randall cobb enz.....

there are loads of 1st and 2nd rounders that are simply role players on their team.

either its the only role they can play or they have a veteran in front of them but none are starters all are role players.

teams drafting them knew they would be role players as well.

Seriously this post is embarrassing. You listed a bunch of rookies that played limited roles and a few that are either not early draft picks or are far more than role players. Randall Cobb? Lmao, I shouldn't even be trying to make a logical argument after that.

Upshaw has gotten his opportunities and has not shown any ability to rush the passer. As I have already stated he has over 500 PASS RUSH attempts and a total of 3 sacks to his name.

[Willbacker]

He's a role player and you don't draft role players with the 35th overall pick. Period.

 

NFL 3-4 OLBs are expected to be able to set the edge AND rush the passer. That's just what it is dude. Coverage is actually a bonus for OLBs. I'll give Upshaw credit for being surprisingly good in coverage but the primary job of the 3-4 OLB is pass rushing, and there isn't a single DC, LB coach, or HC that will tell you otherwise. 

 

He's definitely not a bust, and I'm pretty sure I said that earlier. 

Upshaw always had Suggs as one of the OLBs and first had Kruger(who took 4 yrs to develop as 2nd rounder) then Dumervil as other candidates that played OLB. I don't believe the Ravens drafted him to be a role player it's just the way it's turned out so far plus he played the unglorified part of DT in a lot of pass situations.

[Willbacker]

Seriously this post is embarrassing. You listed a bunch of rookies that played limited roles and a few that are either not early draft picks or are far more than role players. Randall Cobb? Lmao, I shouldn't even be trying to make a logical argument after that.

Upshaw has gotten his opportunities and has not shown any ability to rush the passer. As I have already stated he has over 500 PASS RUSH attempts and a total of 3 sacks to his name.

Was he actually rushing the QB on those pass attempts. I'm late on this but I don't understand the bashing of Upshaw here.

[gabefergy]

Was he actually rushing the QB on those pass attempts. I'm late on this but I don't understand the bashing of Upshaw here.

Yes, thats why I emphasized pass rush. Those were not coverage snaps.

[Dubs]

Yes, thats why I emphasized pass rush. Those were not coverage snaps.

He is lined up alot of the time inside on pass rushing situations...just wondering how do those numbers line up with DTs, or 34 DEs as he is likely in the same position. For many of these guys they are asked to free up for a Suggs or Dumervil, whether than is with stunts, slants, grabbing guys, etc. Just wondering how he ranks to where he plays, which is inside and out. As I think Upshaw is a great talent and has been huge for us. 

[gabefergy]

He is lined up alot of the time inside on pass rushing situations...just wondering how do those numbers line up with DTs, or 34 DEs as he is likely in the same position. For many of these guys they are asked to free up for a Suggs or Dumervil, whether than is with stunts, slants, grabbing guys, etc. Just wondering how he ranks to where he plays, which is inside and out. As I think Upshaw is a great talent and has been huge for us.

Those numbers all come from the OLB position. I think the number of times he actually lined up inside is very small. I just wish his talent would show up more on the field.

[Gordo52]

In hindsight Lavonte David or Alshon Jefferey would've been a better pick.

He's still young though and a solid player overall.

[Willbacker]

Those numbers all come from the OLB position. I think the number of times he actually lined up inside is very small. I just wish his talent would show up more on the field.

If Suggs is released then he is gonna have to step it up in the sack department but right now he's doing more of the dirty work.

I also believe he's just being listed as an OLB regardless of where he lines up. I seen him plenty of times playing the interior DLine or playing standup ILB. It also depends on how many of those pass plays were quick passes,screens,was he being doubleteamed rushing up the middle,did he get off one guy only to run into the RB. There's so many variables.

[arnie_uk]

id like to see the link to these stats.

pro football focus. U have to pay so I can't link you to it

[Tru11]

Seriously this post is embarrassing. You listed a bunch of rookies that played limited roles and a few that are either not early draft picks or are far more than role players. Randall Cobb? Lmao, I shouldn't even be trying to make a logical argument after that.

Upshaw has gotten his opportunities and has not shown any ability to rush the passer. As I have already stated he has over 500 PASS RUSH attempts and a total of 3 sacks to his name.

 

 

uhhh rookies and 2nd year players and 3rd years players.

 

all drafted in either round 1 or 2 and all who are role players....

just proving the point that role players do get drafted early.

none of them are starters or play all snaps..........

 

cobb in his 3rd season was a slot WR and returner.

not exactly the starting WR.....

 

for the record upshaw just finished his 2nd season.....

 

also when are we going to see this link on where these stats come from?

im willing to bet most of those snaps are from his rookie season where the entire defense played awefull and he had to fill in for an injured suggs.....

 

feel free to proof me wrong with a link that states when these stats where recorded.

[arnie_uk]

Seriously this post is embarrassing. You listed a bunch of rookies that played limited roles and a few that are either not early draft picks or are far more than role players. Randall Cobb? Lmao, I shouldn't even be trying to make a logical argument after that.

Upshaw has gotten his opportunities and has not shown any ability to rush the passer. As I have already stated he has over 500 PASS RUSH attempts and a total of 3 sacks to his name.

quoting this because ur pass rush attempts back mine up. Are you using pff for those as well?

[arnie_uk]

uhhh rookies and 2nd year players and 3rd years players.

all drafted in either round 1 or 2 and all who are role players....

just proving the point that role players do get drafted early.

none of them are starters or play all snaps..........

cobb in his 3rd season was a slot WR and returner.

not exactly the starting WR.....

for the record upshaw just finished his 2nd season.....

also when are we going to see this link on where these stats come from?

im willing to bet most of those snaps are from his rookie season where the entire defense played awefull and he had to fill in for an injured suggs.....

feel free to proof me wrong with a link that states when these stats where recorded.

pro football focus. Go back a couple pages there and I split his rookie year and second year.

[Tru11]

pro football focus. U have to pay so I can't link you to it

 

so are the stats from this season only or the past 2 seasons togheter?

[arnie_uk]

cordalle patterson, tavon austin , giovanni bernard, zach ertz, vance mcdonald,lemicheal james,reuben randle,sylvester williams,gavin escobar, kawann short,cornellius carradine,jamie collins,montee ball,randall cobb enz.....

there are loads of 1st and 2nd rounders that are simply role players on their team.

either its the only role they can play or they have a veteran in front of them but none are starters all are role players.

teams drafting them knew they would be role players as well.

are you seriously comparing patterson Austin cobbs et all to upshaw? Lmao, woah im clearly fighting a losing battle.

They are game changers. Break a game open. Upshaw has 1 such play in his career, maybe two.

For you to truly compare those types of players and say upshaw is on the same level he'd need to be averaging a sack a game to have even a decent discussion about whether his impact on any given game is close to that off someone like patterson.

Patterson td against us for example would be the equivalent of strip sack for upshaw. For him do that he has to get to the passer uno, before he passes the ball

[Gordo52]

uhhh rookies and 2nd year players and 3rd years players.

all drafted in either round 1 or 2 and all who are role players....

just proving the point that role players do get drafted early.

none of them are starters or play all snaps..........

cobb in his 3rd season was a slot WR and returner.

not exactly the starting WR.....

for the record upshaw just finished his 2nd season.....

also when are we going to see this link on where these stats come from?

im willing to bet most of those snaps are from his rookie season where the entire defense played awefull and he had to fill in for an injured suggs.....

feel free to proof me wrong with a link that states when these stats where recorded.

Look at the receivers who were infront of Cobb...(Jennings & Nelson)... He was the starter last season before he got injured.... A slot WR in the Packers offense is a starter. There's no doubt he's a top 2 WR on his team between him and Nelson.

There's also no doubt Giovanni Benard proved in his rookie season that he's a better RB than Green-Ellis

[arnie_uk]

if you can't tell he has no burst explosion, is constantly overweight and won't be a good pass rusher at least until he slides inside or loses weight well then I duno what to tell you.

There was 73 34 olbs that rushed the passer last year, upshaw is 62 in pressures, with 208 pass rushesa and only 16 pressures, 16! McPhee and 24 in 189 pass rush attempts and it was his first time in his life playing olb in a 34.

Last year he had 21 in 304 pass rushes, Kruger had 55 in 359 last year. He is not a pass rusher, pure and simple.

here's his stats

[Tru11]

are you seriously comparing patterson Austin cobbs et all to upshaw? Lmao, woah im clearly fighting a losing battle.

They are game changers. Break a game open. Upshaw has 1 such play in his career, maybe two.

For you to truly compare those types of players and say upshaw is on the same level he'd need to be averaging a sack a game to have even a decent discussion about whether his impact on any given game is close to that off someone like patterson.

Patterson td against us for example would be the equivalent of strip sack for upshaw. For him do that he has to get to the passer uno, before he passes the ball

 

My point is that they are role players.

emphasis on role players.

 

none of the where drafted to be legit #1 wrs.

 

they are special talents and thus got drafted early.

 

the claim that role players dont get drafted early is false.

[arnie_uk]

My point is that they are role players.

emphasis on role players.

none of the where drafted to be legit #1 wrs.

they are special talents and thus got drafted early.

the claim that role players dont get drafted early is false.

thats where you are mistaken. They are special players with game breaking traits. Upshaw isnt either. Hes a run stopper thats awful at rushing the qb

[The Raven]

My point is that they are role players.

emphasis on role players.

 

none of the where drafted to be legit #1 wrs.

 

they are special talents and thus got drafted early.

 

the claim that role players dont get drafted early is false.

 

Well, you don't take a guy at 35 if you just want him to be a role-player. First and second rounders are supposed to be starters and high quality players. For the 35th pick to be a role player is disappointing. 

 

High quality OLBs rush the passer. Upshaw doesn't. Case closed. 

[Tru11]

here's his stats

 

here is what lol.

there is no possible way to validate anything you presented.

 

can you say with 100% certainty that every single snap was as a OLB on a play he was meant to rush the passer?

So none of those snaps include him lining up as a DT or ILB to occupy a blocker on a blitz or it was a play designed to defend the run like PA?

 

So in other words he playing in the same position as dumervil was rushing the passer going up against a T?

[The Raven]

here is what lol.

there is no possible way to validate anything you presented.

 

can you say with 100% certainty that every single snap was as a OLB on a play he was meant to rush the passer?

So none of those snaps include him lining up as a DT or ILB to occupy a blocker on a blitz or it was a play designed to defend the run like PA?

 

So in other words he playing in the same position as dumervil was rushing the passer going up against a T?

 

That right there might be one of the most foolish things I've read. On passing downs, the DT is not just occupying a blocker. I don't think he's ever lined up as an ILB in a game either so…… 

 

And ten times out of ten, if Upshaw's at DT, it's a passing down and he's rushing the passer. 

[Tru11]

That right there might be one of the most foolish things I've read. On passing downs, the DT is not just occupying a blocker. I don't think he's ever lined up as an ILB in a game either so…… 

 

And ten times out of ten, if Upshaw's at DT, it's a passing down and he's rushing the passer. 

 

you have no clue on what people roles are on blitzes.......

 

enjoy your bashing.

 

at least  i know your true colour lol.

 

later

[arnie_uk]

here is what lol.

there is no possible way to validate anything you presented.

 

can you say with 100% certainty that every single snap was as a OLB on a play he was meant to rush the passer?

So none of those snaps include him lining up as a DT or ILB to occupy a blocker on a blitz or it was a play designed to defend the run like PA?

 

So in other words he playing in the same position as dumervil was rushing the passer going up against a T?

cosidering everyone is on the same bias, those questions you raise aren't important because they even out for all 73 34 olbs included in the list. Still doesn't change the fact he's a bottom 15 pass rusher.

[arnie_uk]

why you keep bringing up this pass rush crap?

 

i knew from the start he would be a good edge setter and an avg pass rusher needing to learn to get better at it,

 

he does a very good job in doing what he should do.

why would i worry about him being a pass rusher when we had suggs and kruger at first and now dumervil and suggs.

 

ill worry about his pass rushing when he becomes one of the top 2 guys to get the pass rush snaps.....

 

ill judge him on his pass rushing when he actually gets to rush the passer on a regular basis........

so now I've shown you he has almost 600 rushes, care to judge his pass rushing now?

[The Raven]

you have no clue on what people roles are on blitzes.......

 

enjoy your bashing.

 

at least  i know your true colour lol.

 

later

 

Oh yea, I'm sure that Pees tells Upshaw just to occupy a block on third and 10… Maybe he'll be told to spy or contain if the QB is a running threat but just occupying a blocker is stupid.

 

I'm not bashing? I'm just saying that Upshaw is expected to do more as an early second rounder. 

 

I actually really like Upshaw as a player. He's a good run defender and shockingly great in coverage, but his pass rushing leaves a LOT to be desired, and a 3-4 OLB that can't pass rush is just no bueno.

[gabefergy]

quoting this because ur pass rush attempts back mine up. Are you using pff for those as well?

Yes.

[gabefergy]

uhhh rookies and 2nd year players and 3rd years players.

all drafted in either round 1 or 2 and all who are role players....

just proving the point that role players do get drafted early.

none of them are starters or play all snaps..........

cobb in his 3rd season was a slot WR and returner.

not exactly the starting WR.....

for the record upshaw just finished his 2nd season.....

also when are we going to see this link on where these stats come from?

im willing to bet most of those snaps are from his rookie season where the entire defense played awefull and he had to fill in for an injured suggs.....

feel free to proof me wrong with a link that states when these stats where recorded.

You are fighting a losing battle. I'll post a screenshot in a bit