Purple_ICE 81

LB Courtney Upshaw

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Our first pick in the 2012 draft seems to be developing into the "B" word. He seems to be decent as a run defender but has yet to show anything in the pass rush department and overall does not really make a huge impact on defense like we all expected him to from day 1.  Through 2 seasons he has tallied 90 total tackles and 3 total sacks.

 

Will he ever develop into a great OLB for us...or continue to be a "so-so" rotational run defender?

Edited by Purple_ICE 81
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Our first pick in the 2012 draft seems to be developing into the "B" word. He seems to be decent as a run defender but has yet to show anything in the pass rush department and overall does not really make a huge impact on defense like we all expected him to from day 1.  Through 2 seasons he has tallied 90 total tackles and 3 total sacks.

 

Will he ever develop into a great OLB for us...or continue to be a "so-so" rotational run defender?

I don't think he will ever be a dominant pass rusher. I anticipate him having more problems with his weight. Could he play the 3 technique in our defense?

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I don't think Upshaw will develop until Suggs moves on. I don't think he will ever be a Suggs type pass rusher, but a Jarrett Johnson type is defiantly a possibility.

I don't think he has the length to play the 3 technique. He might get an opportunity if Art Jones move on, but I think he's better suited to stay at OLB.

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if Upshaw had become half the player the coaching staff expected him to be at this point, suggs would be cut and we would have a ton of extra cap space to work with, at this point he is a bust.

 

jimmy smith always showed his potential, and a majority of fans still knew he wasn't gonna be a bust and sooner or later he was going to put it all together, you just had that feeling when you watched him play, Upshaw on the other hand, has given us nothing. he is constantly out of shape and overweight, terrible conditioning, cant set the edge, zero burst, he was regarded as a "violent" and "strong" and "heavy handed" player who would be able to manhandle and bullrush lineman, and lay big hits, but he has done neither. he looks lazy, lost, confused, and disinterested on every snap. the only play I can recall where I was impressed, was his fumble in the SB, and that wasn't even very impressive, he got shook out of his jock, turned around and chased and blindsided a ballcarrier who had his forward progress stopped and was about to fall down as his ankles were wrapped up, and knocked the ball loose, good hustle, but once you diagnose the play, not that impressive, though it yielded huge results. in 2 seasons that is about all the good he has done, and one more bad season is gonna bring out the boo-bird in me, because ive seen nothing from him.

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He does the dirty work right now, a la Jarret Johnson.  Obviously he's not as good as JJ, but they're the same in the neither really ever gets credit for what they do.  I wouldn't say he's a bust, and he's certainly not living up to his draft spot, but he's a serviceable rotational player right now that still has time to improve.  Don't write him off yet.  He's played well.  He's just not flashy.

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He's not a bust.  A disappointment sure, but he's not a bust.  He played extremely well his rookie year.

This board is insane sometimes

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Bust? Really?

And I disagree that "most" of the board believed Jimmy Smith would develop. I don't remember many, if any, at all. He was already labeled a bust by most.

Knocking Upshaw for not having shown much in the pass rushing department is ridiculous considering the limited opportunities hes had. It's not his strong suit and probably never will be, but when you have guys the caliber of Kruger and Dumervil at the position, the fact of the matter is that he wont get those opportunities.

The fact that he was the starter over both Kruger and Dumervil in most occasions shows that the coaching staff like him better as an all around defender. Has he played up to the expectations yet? Maybe not, but part of that is fans having unreal expectations. Labeling him a bust only serves to prove that point.

He's played very well at times, and just ok at others, but he's 2 years in and his rookie year played pretty much every position on the defense. Let the dude get settled in.... he's going to be a very good player for us. Not a Suggs, but whoever said JJ hit it right on (who was never heralded in our D, just did the dirty work, and we saw how much we missed his presence once he left).

Start Dumervil and have him play 3 downs and then youll actually be able to see Upshaw's contribution.

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Im kinda ready for the guy to go...im biased of course, didnt want him in the first place. He do, do the dirty work that is true, but not flashy and not impressive. His strong suit is the pass rush, he played the RUSH linebacker spot, he isnt on the field for passing downs however so who knows what he can do right. Still you want to see him bust throught the line and get a tackle for a loss, shed off a tackle or guard and hit the RB. That is what is missing. 

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Who is the last Alabama defender to play well in the pros? Marcel Dareus?

Upshaw was the one that made LaMichael James fumble in the Super Bowl when SF was driving. Remember that!

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He's an edge setter almost in the exact mould of JJ. His value in this department is vastly under appreciated, as well as the fact that he has proven to be very durable. Does he jump off the screen with fantastic pass rush moves? No. But is he a solid contributor to the success of the defense who frees space up for others? Yes.

 

'Bust' would be a ridiculous thing to label him at this point, and it's not as if he was a top 15 pick. He also made a huge play on the forced fumble in the SB last year, but people seem to forget quickly. 

Edited by TDubbs
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I wouldn't say bust, but major disappointment is fair.

He doesn't seem like the kind of guy who is always working hard to get better.

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I wouldn't say bust, but major disappointment is fair.

He doesn't seem like the kind of guy who is always working hard to get better.

How would you know that? Do you live in his neighborhood? Do you know him? That's ridiculous to say such a thing

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How would you know that? Do you live in his neighborhood? Do you know him? That's ridiculous to say such a thing

 

Well... coming into OTAs 20 pounds overweight certainly lends to Gabe's view.

 

He hasn't really toned up or anything since going into the pro's. He's strong as hell but he still has a really thick midsection, and he's not too quick. 

 

I would have expected him to cut his midsection a bit to gain some quickness. 

 

Upshaw is technically sound and one of the few guys on our defense that was capable of laying the wood. At times, he bullied tackles and lit up running backs. I do think he's been a disappointment, though. He has a lot of potential, but that won't be reached until he decides to cut down on his gut. 

Edited by The Raven
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Was worth the pick since he forced that fumble in the Super Bowl. But really, He is kind've a disappointment. With Suggs and Doom I don't expect his playing time to change that much from last year.

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Well... coming into OTAs 20 pounds overweight certainly lends to Gabe's view.

 

He hasn't really toned up or anything since going into the pro's. He's strong as hell but he still has a really thick midsection, and he's not too quick. 

 

I would have expected him to cut his midsection a bit to gain some quickness. 

 

Upshaw is technically sound and one of the few guys on our defense that was capable of laying the wood. At times, he bullied tackles and lit up running backs. I do think he's been a disappointment, though. He has a lot of potential, but that won't be reached until he decides to cut down on his gut.

this, he has elite strength and hands, but he's lazy, doesn't work hard in the offseason by all accounts, is too heavy and slow
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How would you know that? Do you live in his neighborhood? Do you know him? That's ridiculous to say such a thing

Repeat problems with keeping his weight down are pretty glaring indications the effort is not there.

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this, he has elite strength and hands, but he's lazy, doesn't work hard in the offseason by all accounts, is too heavy and slow

 

It's kind of weird, because Alabama has a grueling strength and conditioning program. Saban has his guys in tip-top shape. Yet, Terrence Cody, Upshaw, and (I think I heard) DJ Fluker with the Chargers have all had some issues with weight.

 

Weight is the only thing holding Upshaw back from being a pro bowl player. 

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It's kind of weird, because Alabama has a grueling strength and conditioning program. Saban has his guys in tip-top shape. Yet, Terrence Cody, Upshaw, and (I think I heard) DJ Fluker with the Chargers have all had some issues with weight.

 

Weight is the only thing holding Upshaw back from being a pro bowl player.

that's assuming that when/if he loses weight he will gain quickness, while the too should be related I've never seen upshaw as quick, ever
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It's kind of weird, because Alabama has a grueling strength and conditioning program. Saban has his guys in tip-top shape. Yet, Terrence Cody, Upshaw, and (I think I heard) DJ Fluker with the Chargers have all had some issues with weight.

Weight is the only thing holding Upshaw back from being a pro bowl player.

Im not sure weight is his only issue. He's a very poor pass rusher at this point in his career. Maybe losing weight can help his quickness, but its no guarantee he will be any better.

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Im not sure weight is his only issue. He's a very poor pass rusher at this point in his career. Maybe losing weight can help his quickness, but its no guarantee he will be any better.

 

His technique his good. He has good hands, good pad level, and he does have good pass rushing moves. His problem is he doesn't really have the burst to separate from the tackle.

 

Also, we barely saw him in a pass rushing role this season, with Dumervil taking that role and Kruger taking it the year before. 

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Bust? Really?

And I disagree that "most" of the board believed Jimmy Smith would develop. I don't remember many, if any, at all. He was already labeled a bust by most.

Knocking Upshaw for not having shown much in the pass rushing department is ridiculous considering the limited opportunities hes had. It's not his strong suit and probably never will be, but when you have guys the caliber of Kruger and Dumervil at the position, the fact of the matter is that he wont get those opportunities.

The fact that he was the starter over both Kruger and Dumervil in most occasions shows that the coaching staff like him better as an all around defender. Has he played up to the expectations yet? Maybe not, but part of that is fans having unreal expectations. Labeling him a bust only serves to prove that point.

He's played very well at times, and just ok at others, but he's 2 years in and his rookie year played pretty much every position on the defense. Let the dude get settled in.... he's going to be a very good player for us. Not a Suggs, but whoever said JJ hit it right on (who was never heralded in our D, just did the dirty work, and we saw how much we missed his presence once he left).

Start Dumervil and have him play 3 downs and then youll actually be able to see Upshaw's contribution.

Remember the preseason game against Atlanta. I mean you would have thought he was worse then Frank Walker the way people were calling for Jimmy's head. It was ridiculous. And im not ready to label Upshaw a bust at all. He contributes too much to our defense. One of the best edge setter in the game today.

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His technique his good. He has good hands, good pad level, and he does have good pass rushing moves. His problem is he doesn't really have the burst to separate from the tackle.

Also, we barely saw him in a pass rushing role this season, with Dumervil taking that role and Kruger taking it the year before.

He was out there more than you think, over 300 in 2012 and 200 in 2013. The problem is he was incredibly ineffective.

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u cant have an all-star team, u got have role players that do most dirty work. just ask the seahawks.

Edited by omar586
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I agree...he was drafted to pretty much replace Jarrett Johnson to sure up run D.

 

So far, he hasn't been in the same lvl as JJ.  

 

Much like upshaw, a lot of our early picks has been role players (red chip players).  They've been good team players so far, but few of those guy needs to step up.

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He was out there more than you think, over 300 in 2012 and 200 in 2013. The problem is he was incredibly ineffective.

 

How many of those snaps were third downs though?

 

He probably was out there more than I noticed. 

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How many of those snaps were third downs though?

He probably was out there more than I noticed.

Sorry, those were all pass rush snaps. I'm not sure about the down though.

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He's not a great pass rusher but he's a good run defender.

Not a bust but a major disappointment.

That being said, I do think he's good enough to start if Suggs were to be cut. He won't be a great pass rusher like Suggs was, but will probably be better in that department than JJ.

What we could use is a Situational Pass Rusher(Simon maybe?). But Upshaw, while being over drafted(I hated the pick initially), has a place in the defense.

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He was out there more than you think, over 300 in 2012 and 200 in 2013. The problem is he was incredibly ineffective.

I'd be very interested to see the position distribution for those numbers. He played DT in sub packages at times on third down, so it's not as if he was always going after the quarterback. He also drops into coverage at times.

Edited by BmoreBird22
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I think people forget why we brought him in. We didn't bring him in to be the next great pass rusher (Suggs tore his achilles after the draft and we had Kruger). We had just lost Jarrett Johnson and we had a void at an edge setting linebacker.

Courtney was brought in to be a linebacker that could set the edge, do the dirty work, and then keep the pass rushers fresh. The people who are expecting him to be a great pass rusher, or who did, are off base, and that's why you think he's a bust. 

He does his job extremely well. He sets the edge and can play a variety of positions, including either linebacker position, inside linebacker, defensive end, and even DT in sub packages. He's not going to get the recognition he deserves, but he balls.

In his rookie year, he was already a top three edge setting outside linebacker. 

He's not a disappointment or bust if you consider what he was brought in for.

Edited by BmoreBird22
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I've been meaning to make an Upshaw thread based on his production and potential.

 

Here are the given facts:

 

A He can't pass rush.

 

B He has elite strength at the POA.

 

C He walks around at 300lb in the offseason, he's not built to be 260lb.

 

So why not move him to defensive line? he already plays snaps on the line, just make him a part of the rotation. Let him play to his strengths at his natural weight.

 

Edit: If we're worried about losing a 2 down power player to set the edge we already have a more athletic version in John Simon.

Edited by BloodRaven
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I think people forget why we brought him in. We didn't bring him in to be the next great pass rusher (Suggs tore his achilles after the draft and we had Kruger). We had just lost Jarrett Johnson and we had a void at an edge setting linebacker.

Courtney was brought in to be a linebacker that could set the edge, do the dirty work, and then keep the pass rushers fresh. The people who are expecting him to be a great pass rusher, or who did, are off base, and that's why you think he's a bust.

He does his job extremely well. He sets the edge and can play a variety of positions, including either linebacker position, inside linebacker, defensive end, and even DT in sub packages. He's not going to get the recognition he deserves, but he balls.

In his rookie year, he was already a top three edge setting outside linebacker.

He's not a disappointment or bust if you consider what he was brought in for.

completely incorrect. You don't draft that player in the second round. That type of player can be had on the late rounds.
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he is being used to set the edge which he is pretty good in.

not many people appreciated JJ at first but it will come in due time.

 

for some guys to shine others have to do the dirty work.

something  alot of people arent willing to accept.

 

no team will have 11 playmakers on defense.

 

also dude had a FF in the SB that we won.

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he is being used to set the edge which he is pretty good in.

not many people appreciated JJ at first but it will come in due time.

for some guys to shine others have to do the dirty work.

something alot of people arent willing to accept.

no team will have 11 playmakers on defense.

also dude had a FF in the SB that we won.

again u don't draft a 34 olb at the top of round 2 unless you think he can pass rush. Hes a bust based on that. But hes exactly what I said he'd be.
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So quick to throw that B word around people. I swear its as if some of you don't even watch the games...just read the stat lines and start complaining. Grrrrrr

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So quick to throw that B word around people. I swear its as if some of you don't even watch the games...just read the stat lines and start complaining. Grrrrrr

 

Courtney was drafted in 2012, come on people. JImmy Smith had a similiar start in the league and is developing into exactly what we thought he would be.

 

I'll wait till at least year three to do that.....

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I agree...he was drafted to pretty much replace Jarrett Johnson to sure up run D.

 

So far, he hasn't been in the same lvl as JJ.  

 

Much like upshaw, a lot of our early picks has been role players (red chip players).  They've been good team players so far, but few of those guy needs to step up.

 

JJ wasn't elite at setting the edge as soon as he came to Baltimore either, it took him about five years. It's pretty crazy how similar JJ's 05 and 06 (his first two years as a DE/OLB after being a DT) and Upshaw's first two years are. He's going to be fine and we're lucky we got him, otherwise who knows how 2012 would've turned out.

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I think people forget why we brought him in. We didn't bring him in to be the next great pass rusher (Suggs tore his achilles after the draft and we had Kruger). We had just lost Jarrett Johnson and we had a void at an edge setting linebacker.

Courtney was brought in to be a linebacker that could set the edge, do the dirty work, and then keep the pass rushers fresh. The people who are expecting him to be a great pass rusher, or who did, are off base, and that's why you think he's a bust. 

He does his job extremely well. He sets the edge and can play a variety of positions, including either linebacker position, inside linebacker, defensive end, and even DT in sub packages. He's not going to get the recognition he deserves, but he balls.

In his rookie year, he was already a top three edge setting outside linebacker. 

He's not a disappointment or bust if you consider what he was brought in for.

Sorry, but you don't draft a OLB just so he can be another JJ. We drafted Upshaw because there was a belief he could be a complete OLB that could rush the passer and stuff the run. He's delivered on half of that, but he's been a major disappointment when it comes to getting to the quarterback. As others have said, we wouldn't be worried about what's going to happen as far as Suggs if that wasn't the case.
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completely incorrect. You don't draft that player in the second round. That type of player can be had on the late rounds.

Maybe you don't, but apparently the Ravens did

. I saw multiple scouting reports that had him as a run defender, not pass rusher, at the next level. I'm sure the Ravens saw that, but it's good to know you were there in the Ravens draft room.

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Sorry, but you don't draft a OLB just so he can be another JJ. We drafted Upshaw because there was a belief he could be a complete OLB that could rush the passer and stuff the run. He's delivered on half of that, but he's been a major disappointment when it comes to getting to the quarterback. As others have said, we wouldn't be worried about what's going to happen as far as Suggs if that wasn't the case.

Coming out of college he wasn't going to be a great pass rusher right away. Maybe the Ravens are hoping he could develop into that, but right away, he was a run stuffer.

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Coming out of college he wasn't going to be a great pass rusher right away. Maybe the Ravens are hoping he could develop into that, but right away, he was a run stuffer.

Coming out of college, Upshaw was known to be a damn good pass rusher for Alabama that could also defend the run well. Early in the draft process that year, there was talk that he could of been a top 15 pick due to the fact that he has potential to be a complete LB. He fell due to his height, weight, and explosiveness concerns.

Once again, if you believe that the Ravens drafted Upshaw that high to be another Jarrett Johnson, then I'm afraid I believe you're mistaken. One of the criticisms of JJ was that he didn't deliver on the pass rushing aspect part of his game. Upshaw was drafted to eventually develop into a complimentary pass rusher opposite Suggs and be a complete LB since we hadn't got that from Kruger yet at the time Obviously he hasn't delivered on that yet, but expectations were high for him.

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Coming out of college, Upshaw was known to be a damn good pass rusher for Alabama that could also defend the run well. Early in the draft process that year, there was talk that he could of been a top 15 pick due to the fact that he has potential to be a complete LB. He fell due to his height, weight, and explosiveness concerns.

Once again, if you believe that the Ravens drafted Upshaw that high to be another Jarrett Johnson, then I'm afraid I believe you're mistaken. One of the criticisms of JJ was that he didn't deliver on the pass rushing aspect part of his game. Upshaw was drafted to eventually develop into a complimentary pass rusher opposite Suggs and be a complete LB since we hadn't got that from Kruger yet at the time Obviously he hasn't delivered on that yet, but expectations were high for him.

A lot of scouts, and people beyond internet forums, knew upshaw wasn't going to be that productive as a pass rusher.  Everyone said (he's like Jarett Johnson).  Even though his pass rush never developed, they weren't thinking they were getting Llamar Woodley, because Upshaw isn't that quality of an athlete.  Upshaw was a safe pick with a high floor.  And his rookie year he was one of the best run defenders in all of football.

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again u don't draft a 34 olb at the top of round 2 unless you think he can pass rush. Hes a bust based on that. But hes exactly what I said he'd be.

 

who made this rule?

i never heard of this before.

 

i always figured we take the best player availeble.

 

he was considerd a top 15 talent.

i think it was common knowledge he was viewed as a good football player not really a stud pass rusher.

i think pretty much everyone knew he would have to take some time to learn pass rushing techningues since all he did was use raw power to beat tackles in college lol.

 

expectations was to sit him behind kruger and suggs and learn.

suggs got injured and upshaw was put in the role of the edge setting olb while kruger became the pass rusher.

because kruger sucked in setting the edge , upshaw stayed on as the starter (impressive) and was relieved on pass down by kruger when suggs came back.

he had the 5th most tackles in the regular season and was had the 3rd most as a lber behind mcclain and ellerbe....

 

This season he was going to take on a bigger role with kruger leaving but then we signed dumervil and he stayed on as the edge setter while dumervil could focus more on pass rushing.

 

kruger was a 2nd round pick who did nothing and came into his own in his 3rd season as a pass rusher.

 

upshaw saw limited duty as a pass rusher in his rookie season and tnx to dumervil and suggs his 2nd season wasent much better.

 

i think people are a lil bit harsh bringing up his pass rushing when he wasent asked to do it much and he also spend time behind studs in that department....

 

did you really expect a rookie to beat out suggs and kruger as a pass rusher and then suggs and dumervil in his 2nd season??

 

talk about setting unrealistic goals lol.

 

ah well you have your opinion and i have mine and when a player does what he is being asked to and he does it well he aint a bust in my book.

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Coming out of college, Upshaw was known to be a damn good pass rusher for Alabama that could also defend the run well. Early in the draft process that year, there was talk that he could of been a top 15 pick due to the fact that he has potential to be a complete LB. He fell due to his height, weight, and explosiveness concerns.

Once again, if you believe that the Ravens drafted Upshaw that high to be another Jarrett Johnson, then I'm afraid I believe you're mistaken. One of the criticisms of JJ was that he didn't deliver on the pass rushing aspect part of his game. Upshaw was drafted to eventually develop into a complimentary pass rusher opposite Suggs and be a complete LB since we hadn't got that from Kruger yet at the time Obviously he hasn't delivered on that yet, but expectations were high for him.

He was good at Alabama, but that had to do with the fact that he was strong enough to just destroy opposing tackles. He was never a dynamic pass rusher, like a Terrell Suggs.

No, I'm not saying they drafted him solely to be a JJ, but that's what they drafted him to be first. We already had pass rushers, but we lacked that gritty run defender. He filled that immediately. With a plethora of pass rushers, it allowed Upshaw to refine his pass rush. He wasn't going to be a dynamite pass rusher right away. I think two years under Suggs and Dumervil will do him good. He's technically sound and plays very hard to the whistle. If he shed weight, I'm sure he could develop into a pass rusher now.

I envision him being a complete player, but people should know we weren't getting that right away, especially not with Kruger and Suggs then Dumervil and Suggs. I'm sure when his time comes he can deliver

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A lot of scouts, and people beyond internet forums, knew upshaw wasn't going to be that productive as a pass rusher.  Everyone said (he's like Jarett Johnson).  Even though his pass rush never developed, they weren't thinking they were getting Llamar Woodley, because Upshaw isn't that quality of an athlete.  Upshaw was a safe pick with a high floor.  And his rookie year he was one of the best run defenders in all of football.

While I'm sure you could point to articles that stated he could have trouble rushing the passer (again, his lack of explosiveness was one of the reasons he dropped) but I am also sure I could point to a number of articles stating that he had potential to be a complimentary pass rusher and a complete LB.

In this very video of when he was drafted, it was stated that he could be a three down LB in the NFL that could rush the passer AND fill JJ's role.

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While I'm sure you could point to articles that stated he could have trouble rushing the passer (again, his lack of explosiveness was one of the reasons he dropped) but I am also sure I could point to a number of articles stating that he had potential to be a complimentary pass rusher and a complete LB.

In this very video of when he was drafted, it was stated that he could be a three down LB in the NFL that could rush the passer AND fill JJ's role.

The key word is CAN. Can he? I'm sure he COULD be if given the chance, but he hasn't. That video doesn't mean he could do it day one. It means he could do it one day, and I'm sure will when given the chance.

Terrell Suggs was once a pass rusher only, and now he is one of the best run defenders in the league

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Courtney Upshaw's official NFL combine  scouting report:

 

" Upshaw sets the edge as good as any prospect in recent years. He uses his lower strength and girth to stall blockers and read plays off them to get to the ball in the run game. He understands how to use his hands to stack a block, hold the player up, then shed him and react to the play. He also uses his heavy hands well when covering a tight end at the line of scrimmage. Physical strength, explosion, and the ability to overpower offensive lineman to get to the ball carrier is what gives Upshaw so much value. Upshaw uses brute strength to rush the passer, can leverage tackles at the point of attack and literally force them into the backfield to create disruption. He also possesses the flexibility and knee bend to dip around tackles when given a step. Overall, due to his size, strength, and play against the run, Upshaw has late first-round talent. Look for him to pair with a pass-rush specialist opposite of him at outside backer in a 3-4 scheme where he can set the edge, work against tight ends and be a heavy run defender".

 

The run defense part was for the most part accurate but he doesnt seem to have a lot of "Explosion" or "ability to overpower o-linemen" as much as he was scouted for in the pass rush department. 

 

Overall we spent an early round draft pick on him to eventually develop into a 3 down OLB opposite Suggs who can rush the passer and stuff the run. So far he has proven that he is pretty good against the run but has not taken too many steps forward in the pass rushing department.

Edited by Purple_ICE 81
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