Terrell Suggs extended

[rmw10]

 

 

It frees up $8 million post June 1st. I've been saying this is an option cause Jimmy Smith and Torrey Smith would be coming up in the next year and that $8 million could be rolled over to have those two signed. If the Ravens exercise Jimmy's fifth year clause, that's $8 million right there.

 

 

Yeah I know that.  I think too many people are looking at cutting Suggs to keep Jones or sign a big name FA.  It's not going to happen.  If we cut him, it will be the post June 1st designation and that would be used for Torrey or Jimmy only.  I still highly doubt it happens.

[rmw10]

 

 

That is correct. I just looked it up. 

We're talking about Terrell Suggs getting traded (who I think has a better chance of getting extended than Ngata), but why not look to trade Ngata? He has a higher cap hit and it would save us like the same amount of money in either scenario. It's just, at least Suggs' heart is still in it and he is playing more consistently than Ngata.

 

 

If we trade Ngata, the bonus accelerates and we're on the hook for $15M to not have him on the team.  The only way Ngata isn't going to be on the team next year is if they really want to designate him as a post June 1st cut for an extension for one of the Smiths.

[BmoreBird22]

Its hard to say Suggs is playing more consistent than Ngata after the disappearing act he pulled in the second half of 2013. More-so it comes down to the contract though. We would eat 15M by cutting or trading Ngata. With Suggs its only 4.6M because he is in the last year of his contract.

  

Because another team would have to want to trade for him. I doubt many teams will be lining up for Ngata and his $16 million dollar cap number at this point in his career. Suggs at least has some value from the outside looking in. I doubt either gets traded though. Restructure is much more likely.

  

Yeah I know that.  I think too many people are looking at cutting Suggs to keep Jones or sign a big name FA.  It's not going to happen.  If we cut him, it will be the post June 1st designation and that would be used for Torrey or Jimmy only.  I still highly doubt it happens.

  

If we trade Ngata, the bonus accelerates and we're on the hook for $15M to not have him on the team.  The only way Ngata isn't going to be on the team next year is if they really want to designate him as a post June 1st cut for an extension for one of the Smiths.

Suggs may have pulled a disappearing act as a pass rusher, but he was pretty good in run defense throughout the entire year.

And, I never said eat $15 million in cap. I have only ever referred to post June 1st as a move to keep the Smiths next offseason

[izvoodoo]

At other positions I'd say go ahead and part ways but Pass rushers are hard to find.

[TDubbs]

Suggs can still play the game at a high level as an all around solid OLB. We need to keep this guy. To lose Lewis, Reed and Suggs in consecutive off seasons is really too much. Sizzle brings that Ravens style of football confidence or 'swagger' that Ray Lewis built. He's the only guy left from the old guard and I know for sure, all the young guys coming in (Like an Elam) see that and feed off of it. 

 

The market out there for Suggs in Free Agency would be ok, not great. I think he and the FO know that. Best situation for both parties is to keep our man in Baltimore where he belongs. 

[T3hRaven]

I think Rex Ryan would be very interested in him.

If the Jets have the cap space, that's a very likely option.

[rmw10]

       Suggs may have pulled a disappearing act as a pass rusher, but he was pretty good in run defense throughout the entire year.

And, I never said eat $15 million in cap. I have only ever referred to post June 1st as a move to keep the Smiths next offseason

 

You questioned above why we don't look to trade Ngata.  If we do trade him, we eat $15M this year.  That's all I was saying.

[BmoreBird22]

You questioned above why we don't look to trade Ngata.  If we do trade him, we eat $15M this year.  That's all I was saying.

Post June 1st trade. Why is that so hard to get? We would save $8 million and eat $8 million

[rmw10]

Post June 1st trade. Why is that so hard to get? We would save $8 million and eat $8 million

 

My bad.  I misunderstood you.  Either way, we'd still be eating that $7.5M the following year.  I just don't see it happening.

[gabefergy]

Post June 1st trade. Why is that so hard to get? We would save $8 million and eat $8 million

You still eat the money, it just postpones it to the next season. Either way its not a smart move.

[hn68wb4]

I'd definitely rather trade Suggs instead of outright cutting him. He does have value. Of course, I'd rather get him to a cap friendly deal, but I doubt he takes a pay cut. 

 

Replacing him is the challenge. It's not easy to replicate an 80 tackle, 10 sack season. 

and on top of that we would be able to choose (somewhat) where he would go, we wouldn't want to cut him and have him ending up on a team in our division....the Bengals want a rush LB

[display name]

It would suck if we had to let him go. Hopefully we can get him to agree to a 1 to 2 year extension, but with the same overall salary- but less per year. It would allow one of the best Ravens ever to retire with the team, and otherwise our pass rush would really be taking a hit, because it's difficult to replace a 10-sack guy, even though 9-9.5 sack guys have been on our team for the past two seasons.

But I agree with those who said that simply cutting him will do no good.

[BmoreBird22]

My bad.  I misunderstood you.  Either way, we'd still be eating that $7.5M the following year.  I just don't see it happening.

  

You still eat the money, it just postpones it to the next season. Either way its not a smart move.

The Ravens would eat $8 million, then $7.5 million, which I think better than two straight seasons of $16 million if we can get draft picks. I'm just thinking about resigning the two Smiths

[gabefergy]

The Ravens would eat $8 million, then $7.5 million, which I think better than two straight seasons of $16 million if we can get draft picks. I'm just thinking about resigning the two Smiths

You can cut him after this season and only eat 7.5M and then we can still sign them then.

[rmw10]

  

The Ravens would eat $8 million, then $7.5 million, which I think better than two straight seasons of $16 million if we can get draft picks. I'm just thinking about resigning the two Smiths

 

I think they can find a way to make it work without cutting/trading Ngata.  It's certainly possible that we could sign one of them to a deal that simply kicks in after 2014, with the 2014 salary staying the same.  Even if we don't, there's always ways you can work with the structure to make things work.  I don't see anyway Ngata isn't on the team in 2014, but 2015 is when it becomes questionable.

[BmoreBird22]

You can cut him after this season and only eat 7.5M and then we can still sign them then.

  

I think they can find a way to make it work without cutting/trading Ngata.  It's certainly possible that we could sign one of them to a deal that simply kicks in after 2014, with the 2014 salary staying the same.  Even if we don't, there's always ways you can work with the structure to make things work.  I don't see anyway Ngata isn't on the team in 2014, but 2015 is when it becomes questionable.

I think he'll be cut next season if he has a repeat of 2013, but I do see him on the team next year. I'm just confused why don't hear the possibility of that happening over cutting Suggs

[RavensFan34950]

It's concerning though how dramatically his play dropped off in the second half last year, given his age.

Did he get hurt again, did teams adjust or has he hit the wall?

He was playing through a neck injury he got in practice. Don't know if it stayed with him since then but since he got it his play declined big time.

[rmw10]

From a WNST interview with Harbs

 

Harbaugh on Suggs in 2014: "Ozzie and Terrell's people will get it done..I'd like to see him finish as a Raven...and get a statue."

[izvoodoo]

From a WNST interview with Harbs

 

Harbaugh on Suggs in 2014: "Ozzie and Terrell's people will get it done..I'd like to see him finish as a Raven...and get a statue."

They want Suggs, pass rushers are hard to come by, and we'd like not to have another whole.

[Guest Mr. Nobody]

i'd add two more years to current contract, level the money down (cap wise) as much as possible and we're all smiling happily ever after

[rmw10]

i'd add two more years to current contract, level the money down (cap wise) as much as possible and we're all smiling happily ever after

 

As long as we can knock his cap number down $4-5M this year, I'd be happy.

[Bltravens]

From a WNST interview with Harbs

 

Harbaugh on Suggs in 2014: "Ozzie and Terrell's people will get it done..I'd like to see him finish as a Raven...and get a statue."

Statue?  I love Suggs, he's the last remaining link to some dirty defenses and he's the only guy who played with both Lewis and Reed in their primes left in the league but unless Suggs goes on a tear and leads the team to another Super Bowl, virtually single handedly defensively, he's not getting a statue.

He also needs to not be fat for the entire season next year.

[rmw10]

Statue?  I love Suggs, he's the last remaining link to some dirty defenses and he's the only guy who played with both Lewis and Reed in their primes left in the league but unless Suggs goes on a tear and leads the team to another Super Bowl, virtually single handedly defensively, he's not getting a statue.

He also needs to not be fat for the entire season next year.

 

I was more posting that for the first part, but yeah, I agree lol.  

[Bltravens]

I was more posting that for the first part, but yeah, I agree lol.  

No I know lol, I was just stating an opinion on the tweet.  I didn't think that was your own statement.

[B-more Ravor]

As long as we can knock his cap number down $4-5M this year, I'd be happy.

 

They can.

 

IMO, a reasonable extension for Suggs ($12.4M Cap number) would be to take his $7.8M base salary down to $1M and give him a $7M bonus on a 2-year extension (basically a 3-year deal).  In such case, Suggs gets $8M in 2014, which is $200K more than he would be getting under the last year of his present deal.  The $7M bonus creates a $2.33M bonus proration, which is added to the present proration of $4.6M  and the new $1M base salary, giving him a new Cap number of $7.93M.  That would be a Cap reduction of $4.47M. 

 

The new deal would likely be something like 3 years for $20M total (2015 and 2016 base salary/Cap numbers of $5M/$7.33M and $7M/$9.33M), which would also include incentives and escalators that would allow him to make more, but those would be added to future Caps.

 

It could be longer to pump up the bonus a bit, and possibly lower the 2014 Cap number even more (thus more savings).

 

Dumervil's base deal - before incentives and esalators - was 5 years/$26M or 5.2M/year.

 

The base deal I proposed for Suggs - also before incentives and escalators - would be 3 years/$20M or $6.67M/year.

 

The incentives and escalators in Suggs' deal could be structured similarly to keep the deals comparable.

[rmw10]

They can.

 

IMO, a reasonable extension for Suggs ($12.4M Cap number) would be to take his $7.8M base salary down to $1M and give him a $7M bonus on a 2-year extension (basically a 3-year deal).  In such case, Suggs gets $8M in 2014, which is $200K more than he would be getting under the last year of his present deal.  The $7M bonus creates a $2.33M bonus proration, which is added to the present proration of $4.6M  and the new $1M base salary, giving him a new Cap number of $7.93M.  That would be a Cap reduction of $4.47M. 

 

The new deal would likely be something like 3 years for $20M total (2015 and 2016 base salary/Cap numbers of $5M/$7.33M and $7M/$9.33M), which would also include incentives and escalators that would allow him to make more, but those would be added to future Caps.

 

It could be longer to pump up the bonus a bit, and possibly lower the 2014 Cap number even more (thus more savings).

 

Dumervil's base deal - before incentives and esalators - was 5 years/$26M or 5.2M/year.

 

The base deal I proposed for Suggs - also before incentives and escalators - would be 3 years/$20M or $6.67M/year.

 

The incentives and escalators in Suggs' deal could be structured similarly to keep the deals comparable.

 

The question becomes whether Suggs is willing to take that deal.  Despite his poor 2nd half last year, are Suggs and his agent willing to say he's worth $6.67M a year?  I'm not sure how quick they are to jump on a deal like that.  Even though the market for pass rushers was incredibly weak last year, I think an argument can be made that he's worth more based on his 1st half of the season and that he's only 2 years removed from being DPOY.

 

Suggs is a really tricky situation.  His inconsistency has made his value so hard to nail down.  Is he worth premiere (but older) pass rusher money, or is he worth purely older pass rusher money?  His value is just all over the place.

[B-more Ravor]

The question becomes whether Suggs is willing to take that deal.  Despite his poor 2nd half last year, are Suggs and his agent willing to say he's worth $6.67M a year?  I'm not sure how quick they are to jump on a deal like that.  Even though the market for pass rushers was incredibly weak last year, I think an argument can be made that he's worth more based on his 1st half of the season and that he's only 2 years removed from being DPOY.

 

Suggs is a really tricky situation.  His inconsistency has made his value so hard to nail down.  Is he worth premiere (but older) pass rusher money, or is he worth purely older pass rusher money?  His value is just all over the place.

 

 

The FA market for aging DE's last year (Osi, Freeney, Abraham, even Michael Bennett) was really slow last year and most of those guys had to settle for contracts that you would not have expected.  The lower, more slowing increasing Cap has made it more difficult for guys age 30+ to get paid like they used to. 

 

That said, yes as I said, it might be a little more rich, with more years to keep the savings roughly the same.

[rmw10]

The FA market for aging DE's last year (Osi, Freeney, Abraham, even Michael Bennett) was really slow last year and most of those guys had to settle for contracts that you would not have expected.  The lower, more slowing increasing Cap has made it more difficult for guys age 30+ to get paid like they used to. 

 

That said, yes as I said, it might be a little more rich, with more years to keep the savings roughly the same.

 

It will be interesting to see.  I happen to think his value is right around that contract that you suggested, but does his agent?  We know how money hungry agents can be and how more often that not, it doesn't work out.  It will definitely be interesting to see what happens since this is such a wild card negotiation.  We should have a resolution in the next month or so.

[gabefergy]

The FA market for aging DE's last year (Osi, Freeney, Abraham, even Michael Bennett) was really slow last year and most of those guys had to settle for contracts that you would not have expected. The lower, more slowing increasing Cap has made it more difficult for guys age 30+ to get paid like they used to.

That said, yes as I said, it might be a little more rich, with more years to keep the savings roughly the same.

I'm not sure those are good comps to be honest. Bennett was coming off an injury and the others are either older or not as good a player. Suggs had himself a pretty good year despite his fall off at the end. He's still one of the best edge players vs the run in the league and is a more than capable pass-rusher.

[OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL]

Look, after letting Boldin and Pollard walk last year, I personally do not want to see that with Suggs. We tried to bolster the line with Canty and Spears, but I prefer to keep home grown Ravens who can teach the Raven way and still ball out.

You can say he's long in the tooth, but I think he would give us a fair deal to stay. He doesnt appear to be the greedy type, but if he walks, we will all feel the pain of this loss.