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BmoreBird22

Chances Haloti Ngata is extended?

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I saw Jameson Hensley write an article in which he mentioned the Ravens either were going to or should consider extending Ngata to reduce his cap hit. What are the chances this happens? He still has two years(?) left, so it'd be a risk to extend him for much longer, given his age and injury concerns.

How likely is it that he is extended? The only other cap friendly option would be to cut him post June 1st, but I highly doubt that happens, so am extension seems to be the only smart option.

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It depends on what they want to do this off-season, and if they can execute those plans with Ngata at his current number. At this stage, unless absolutely necessary I feel as though extending him is the wrong move. His play dropped significantly this season, and that alone is cause for concern. I personally wouldn't do it unless we had to.

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Extending him would only extend his signing bonus numbers which would make it very difficult to cut him. His injury history is a concern.

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It depends on what they want to do this off-season, and if they can execute those plans with Ngata at his current number. At this stage, unless absolutely necessary I feel as though extending him is the wrong move. His play dropped significantly this season, and that alone is cause for concern. I personally wouldn't do it unless we had to.

  

Extending him would only extend his signing bonus numbers which would make it very difficult to cut him. His injury history is a concern.

The injury history is the only thing that would concern me about extending him. When healthy, he's dominant, but how often is he truly healthy? Not too often.

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Giving Ngata an extension would spread out his bonus, thus reducing his cap number each year... he and/or Suggs are candidates for such a move. I think it'll happen.

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Pretty much 0.  We're stuck with him at his current number for this year, and you'll likely see him cut next year.  He's talked about retirement quite often in the past couple of years.  Despite him being pretty young in NFL terms, his heart doesn't seem to be in it.  I don't think we can take that risk, even if the retirement talk is all smoke and mirrors.

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I think it is safe to say that evryone on the team last year had lost there heart to play the game. I am not trying to beat a dead horse but since Ray Lewis and Reed left the locker room just isn't the same.... maybe they will come around with this new coaching blood and play like the Ravens of ole'....

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Pretty much 0.  We're stuck with him at his current number for this year, and you'll likely see him cut next year.  He's talked about retirement quite often in the past couple of years.  Despite him being pretty young in NFL terms, his heart doesn't seem to be in it.  I don't think we can take that risk, even if the retirement talk is all smoke and mirrors.

 

Yea i agree.  I don't think his heart is in it anymore.   Seems to me he wants to just get the paycheck and move on.

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I thought cutting him was out of the question? Pretty sure it would leave us with $15 M in dead money. If anything, him and Suggs get extended. Though, if it wasn't for the dead money Ngata carries, cutting him in favor to re-sign Art Jones would be the best move Ozzie could do.

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it honestly happened as soon as he got his big contract. Its sad as I feel we never really saw the best of ngata. Yes even though in 2009-2010 he played epic I feel he could have been even better.

 

he basicaly is the cost of 2 pro bowl calibre players in his position.

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I think we should cut suggs and re-sign art. Suggs is a declining player with so many miles and recent injuries. It happens to them all. We need cap. Cutting suggs could help us land some good free agents.I didnt watch much college football in recent years but I hope KLM is ready as Im not sold on brandon williams.

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I thought cutting him was out of the question? Pretty sure it would leave us with $15 M in dead money. If anything, him and Suggs get extended. Though, if it wasn't for the dead money Ngata carries, cutting him in favor to re-sign Art Jones would be the best move Ozzie could do.

Post June first saves $8 million, and considering not many big name free agents are available, it'd likely be rolled over to open up money for Jimmy and Torrey Smith

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I think it is safe to say that evryone on the team last year had lost there heart to play the game. I am not trying to beat a dead horse but since Ray Lewis and Reed left the locker room just isn't the same.... maybe they will come around with this new coaching blood and play like the Ravens of ole'....

Loss of some key players? Super Bowl Hangover? Injuries? Those things can do it.

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I am fairly sure that either Ngata or Suggs will be asked to extend their contract and lessen the cap hit this year. If we let Suggs go we will need to keep Art Jones. But the timing is going to be part of the problem as Art is a UFA and will be available before we see what kind of shape Suggs and Ngata are in for this next year and what kind of money deals can be worked out with them. The one thing I do not foresee is us letting Suggs, Ngata and Art Jones all go. 

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Can't see it. Hes an injury and retirement risk. You dont push of dollars on that kind of player

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I wouldn't extend him. He hasn't lived up to his contract at all, he's played at a level deserving half that much at best. Just suffer through next year and possibly the year after.

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I am fairly sure that either Ngata or Suggs will be asked to extend their contract and lessen the cap hit this year. If we let Suggs go we will need to keep Art Jones. But the timing is going to be part of the problem as Art is a UFA and will be available before we see what kind of shape Suggs and Ngata are in for this next year and what kind of money deals can be worked out with them. The one thing I do not foresee is us letting Suggs, Ngata and Art Jones all go.

I don't know why we would need to resign Art if Suggs is cut. They play different positions and on opposite sides of the formation, most of the time. No correlation between the two.
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Eh, don't think he's worth extending given that he's hinted at early retirement and injuries have piled up the last few years. We'll be looking for his replacement, along with Jones and Canty pretty soon. 

 

Suggs is who I think we'll ultimately cut. Oz cut Boldin after the delivering the playoff performance of a lifetime. Suggs has a higher cap hit than Boldin had and he was a non-factor the last half of the season. Don't think he will be kept. We've seen what moves Ozzie made after he cut Boldin. He could probably do the same after cutting Suggs. 

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Eh, don't think he's worth extending given that he's hinted at early retirement and injuries have piled up the last few years. We'll be looking for his replacement, along with Jones and Canty pretty soon.

Suggs is who I think we'll ultimately cut. Oz cut Boldin after the delivering the playoff performance of a lifetime. Suggs has a higher cap hit than Boldin had and he was a non-factor the last half of the season. Don't think he will be kept. We've seen what moves Ozzie made after he cut Boldin. He could probably do the same after cutting Suggs.

Does anybody think that after last year Newsome may may be saying those things to scare Suggs but knows that he made a mistake with Boldin and doesn't want to do it again. Lets be honest even a healthy Pitta all year would not have got us to the playoffs. We spent our money on players that didnt finish the year with us and Boldin had a great year. You cant count Doom because we got lucky with him and he was an after thought after we cut Boldin and got Spears and Huff.

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I don't know why we would need to resign Art if Suggs is cut. They play different positions and on opposite sides of the formation, most of the time. No correlation between the two.

 

Had a senior moment. You are right. I am not sure why I put them together other than they both lead in tackles at their positions and for some reason I was thinking that they both played DE. Since Suggs lines up at the line so often I got confused. My bad.

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Does anybody think that after last year Newsome may may be saying those things to scare Suggs but knows that he made a mistake with Boldin and doesn't want to do it again. Lets be honest even a healthy Pitta all year would not have got us to the playoffs. We spent our money on players that didnt finish the year with us and Boldin had a great year. You cant count Doom because we got lucky with him and he was an after thought after we cut Boldin and got Spears and Huff.

 

No I think he was being genuinely honest. Suggs has been a great player for us in the past but it's no secret that he was essentially a non-factor the last half of the season. I'm sure they'll do what they can to extend him and lower that cap but if that doesn't happen, I could easily see him being cut. That money could go towards helping us on the side of the ball that finished in the bottom of the league just like Boldin's cap went towards helping our defense after being below average the previous season.

 

Why can't you count Doom? Doesn't matter how he got available. We wouldn't of been able to sign Doom if we didn't have that freed up cap from cutting Boldin. Sure, we could have used Boldin but we cut him and got players like Doom, Canty, and D. Smith. All of these players played a part in our resurgence on defense. 

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Had a senior moment. You are right. I am not sure why I put them together other than they both lead in tackles at their positions and for some reason I was thinking that they both played DE. Since Suggs lines up at the line so often I got confused. My bad.

Suggs is essentially a standing defensive end. He was a defensive end in college, but you have to remember why have McPhee and Dumervil (two former defensive ends) in that role now

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he plays in a scheme and position that doesent lead to eye popping stats and thus it seems most think he isent important at all.

 

anyone who watched that SB game against the niners should know his impact.

the moment he went out the niners ran all over the defense in the 2nd half.

 

the reason jones and such can make plays is because they dont get double teamed and thus have to beat just 1 guy to make a play.

 

i doubt he will get cut anytime soon since nobody can replace him and depending on how healthy he makes it through this season he could get extended next year.

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he plays in a scheme and position that doesent lead to eye popping stats and thus it seems most think he isent important at all.

 

anyone who watched that SB game against the niners should know his impact.

the moment he went out the niners ran all over the defense in the 2nd half.

 

the reason jones and such can make plays is because they dont get double teamed and thus have to beat just 1 guy to make a play.

 

i doubt he will get cut anytime soon since nobody can replace him and depending on how healthy he makes it through this season he could get extended next year.

Thank You.

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Pretty much 0.  We're stuck with him at his current number for this year, and you'll likely see him cut next year.  He's talked about retirement quite often in the past couple of years.  Despite him being pretty young in NFL terms, his heart doesn't seem to be in it.  I don't think we can take that risk, even if the retirement talk is all smoke and mirrors.

 

This is why I think we should think about trading him. If a team like Oakland, who will have the most cap space in the NFL this offseason, is willing to give us something similar to what the Bucs gave the Jets for Revis which was a first-round pick in this years draft and a conditional fourth-round selection in next years draft (that could become a third-round selection) then that's a deal we absolutely cannot refuse.

 

It would free up a ton of cap space and would give Ozzie 2 top 20 first-round picks.

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he plays in a scheme and position that doesent lead to eye popping stats and thus it seems most think he isent important at all.

 

anyone who watched that SB game against the niners should know his impact.

the moment he went out the niners ran all over the defense in the 2nd half.

 

the reason jones and such can make plays is because they dont get double teamed and thus have to beat just 1 guy to make a play.

 

i doubt he will get cut anytime soon since nobody can replace him and depending on how healthy he makes it through this season he could get extended next year.

I understand the role of a nose tackle is to take double teams and hold his ground. The second part is very important because Ngata isn't doing too much of that lately. He's just eating blockers and getting kicked back. Obviously much of this is due to health, but he's getting pushed off the line and backwards a lot in run defense and not generating a consistent push in pass defense. If he were healthy, I think he could be dominant, but I don't think he'll be healthy anytime soon
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This is why I think we should think about trading him. If a team like Oakland, who will have the most cap space in the NFL this offseason, is willing to give us something similar to what the Bucs gave the Jets for Revis which was a first-round pick in this years draft and a conditional fourth-round selection in next years draft (that could become a third-round selection) then that's a deal we absolutely cannot refuse.

 

It would free up a ton of cap space and would give Ozzie 2 top 20 first-round picks.

A top five pick, which can be used on a much more dominant pass rusher, quarterback, or a much needed receiver, for Ngata? Ngata chance. Given his age and decline, a third and fourth rounder would be a win.
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This is why I think we should think about trading him. If a team like Oakland, who will have the most cap space in the NFL this offseason, is willing to give us something similar to what the Bucs gave the Jets for Revis which was a first-round pick in this years draft and a conditional fourth-round selection in next years draft (that could become a third-round selection) then that's a deal we absolutely cannot refuse.

 

It would free up a ton of cap space and would give Ozzie 2 top 20 first-round picks.

 

As stated in the other thread, trading Ngata only frees up $1M.  Oakland would not give up their top 5 pick for him anyway.

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I understand the role of a nose tackle is to take double teams and hold his ground. The second part is very important because Ngata isn't doing too much of that lately. He's just eating blockers and getting kicked back. Obviously much of this is due to health, but he's getting pushed off the line and backwards a lot in run defense and not generating a consistent push in pass defense. If he were healthy, I think he could be dominant, but I don't think he'll be healthy anytime soon

 

the defense was good this season.

11th against the run and ngata had 1 less tackle then jones even with his role and not being 100%.

 

while he can be better when 100%, he still has the biggest impact on the Dline and he does the dirty work to make others get the shine.

 

for all the shine jones and daryl smith gets for their outstanding play its ngata making it possible.

 

from reading all your post in numerous threads about ngata it rather seems you have some personal grudge against him then rather objectively look at the whole picture.

 

he might not be what he once was but he sure as hell is still 1 of the better option out there.

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the defense was good this season.

11th against the run and ngata had 1 less tackle then jones even with his role and not being 100%.

while he can be better when 100%, he still has the biggest impact on the Dline and he does the dirty work to make others get the shine.

for all the shine jones and daryl smith gets for their outstanding play its ngata making it possible.

from reading all your post in numerous threads about ngata it rather seems you have some personal grudge against him then rather objectively look at the whole picture.

he might not be what he once was but he sure as hell is still 1 of the better option out there.

hes no where near close to his 16mil cap number no matter what you try to argue.
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im tired of this 100% bs with Ngata. Great players make plays and no one is 100% as the season winds down. Ngata is overrated. PLain and simple. Hes a glorified run stopper who has a cool name and when he hits people the world notices.

Trevor Pryce and Correy redding did the real work. I dont see much difference between Ngata and even a past his prime kelly gregg.

 

I always get pissed when some of our players get underrated by the media, but ngata is without doubt overrated by the media

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hes no where near close to his 16mil cap number no matter what you try to argue.

 

Where am i arguing his cap number?

Based on what do you assume this?

 

There is no point in arguing about his cap number because there isent much that can be done about it anyways......

 

You cant trade or cut him now because it wont save anything and leave us with dead money.

You can trade or cut him after june 1 and get cap relief this year only to be worse off the next year.

The ravens dont restructure deals.

The ravens could give him an extension but they never do that with players that have 2 years left.

 

Just like flacco rice and webb , ngata aint going nowhere.

none of them have played to their contracts worths this past season but none of them are going anywhere tnx to their contract.

discussing their capnumber is a mood point.

 

now discussing what they mean to the team talent wise ............

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Does anybody think that after last year Newsome may may be saying those things to scare Suggs but knows that he made a mistake with Boldin and doesn't want to do it again. Lets be honest even a healthy Pitta all year would not have got us to the playoffs. We spent our money on players that didnt finish the year with us and Boldin had a great year. You cant count Doom because we got lucky with him and he was an after thought after we cut Boldin and got Spears and Huff.

 

The Raven Front Office is in a Catch-22.  They've weakened their own structure and now they want a convoy of truckers to drive big rigs over the deep water.

 

It's cold too

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the defense was good this season.

11th against the run and ngata had 1 less tackle then jones even with his role and not being 100%.

 

while he can be better when 100%, he still has the biggest impact on the Dline and he does the dirty work to make others get the shine.

 

for all the shine jones and daryl smith gets for their outstanding play its ngata making it possible.

 

from reading all your post in numerous threads about ngata it rather seems you have some personal grudge against him then rather objectively look at the whole picture.

 

he might not be what he once was but he sure as hell is still 1 of the better option out there.

I have nothing against any Ravens player, and I don't understand why anyone would hate a player on their favorite team. I love all Ravens players.

I understand that Ngata does a lot of the dirty work, and I agree there might not be too many great options on the free agent market, but that doesn't mean he is worth his $16 million cap hit. That's what I'm trying to get at.

The Ravens may have been ranked  11th against the run, but I'd be interested to see the yardage distribution up the middle and to either edge. I know Terrell Suggs was one of the best run defending linebackers in the league this year, so I don't think a ton of it came off the edges. 

I can remember watching games like Pittsburgh and the Steelers would find success with LeVeon Bell straight up the middle. He'd just run right through there. I'll give it the entire defense played poorly, but Ngata is getting pushed around a lot.

Daryl Smith doesn't shine in run defense. He makes many of his tackles in the second level and doesn't attack the line of scrimmage. If he's going to make a tackle, it's going to be 4 or 5 yards down the field most of the time.

Arthur Jones, the jury is out on him. Since we know he won't be a Raven next season, we'll see who benefitted more from who. 

I love Haloti Ngata, but he isn't worth the $16 million cap hit.

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I have nothing against any Ravens player, and I don't understand why anyone would hate a player on their favorite team. I love all Ravens players.

I understand that Ngata does a lot of the dirty work, and I agree there might not be too many great options on the free agent market, but that doesn't mean he is worth his $16 million cap hit. That's what I'm trying to get at.

The Ravens may have been ranked  11th against the run, but I'd be interested to see the yardage distribution up the middle and to either edge. I know Terrell Suggs was one of the best run defending linebackers in the league this year, so I don't think a ton of it came off the edges. 

I can remember watching games like Pittsburgh and the Steelers would find success with LeVeon Bell straight up the middle. He'd just run right through there. I'll give it the entire defense played poorly, but Ngata is getting pushed around a lot.

Daryl Smith doesn't shine in run defense. He makes many of his tackles in the second level and doesn't attack the line of scrimmage. If he's going to make a tackle, it's going to be 4 or 5 yards down the field most of the time.

Arthur Jones, the jury is out on him. Since we know he won't be a Raven next season, we'll see who benefitted more from who. 

I love Haloti Ngata, but he isn't worth the $16 million cap hit.

 

 

it doesent matter if he is worth it.

there is nothing the FO can do about it without hurting the team in 1 way or another.

 

the only viable option about lowering the cap number is extending him.

the ravens never extend players with 2 years left.

 

its really a mood discussion talking about his cap number.

 

also if we use your reasoning then we might as well get rid of flacco, rice , webb , yanda and suggs cause neither of them played at the level of the contract they signed.

heck there would be no reason to resign jacoby or pitta because well they where injured and basicially did nothing for the team this past season.

 

when it comes to playing up to their contract then you have a point and ngata wasent worth it but so was pretty much the whole offense and some defenders so .....

when it comes to a players skill set and what it means to the team there is hardly any argument to ngata being 1 if not the most important player on defense.

 

like i said watch that SB final again.

with ngata the niners offense did not do much.

once he went out with an injury they ran all over us.

he was still the 2nd leading dliner with tackles this past season as a NT and the top dliner only had 1 more tackle.....

also as a pass rusher his job is also to create 1 on 1 match ups for the others guys and he did a good job and for the 1st part of the season we where racking up the sacks as a team.

the 2nd part we got less sacks but was that really because of ngata????

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It won't happen. Extending him means compromising the future salary cap, Ozzie is not willing to do this. Plus, I think Ngata has 3 years left at the most and he will retire. Unfortunately, Haloti's best years are behind him. We'll never see him at that same elite level again, injuries have piled up on the big man. 

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it doesent matter if he is worth it.

there is nothing the FO can do about it without hurting the team in 1 way or another.

 

the only viable option about lowering the cap number is extending him.

the ravens never extend players with 2 years left.

 

its really a mood discussion talking about his cap number.

 

also if we use your reasoning then we might as well get rid of flacco, rice , webb , yanda and suggs cause neither of them played at the level of the contract they signed.

heck there would be no reason to resign jacoby or pitta because well they where injured and basicially did nothing for the team this past season.

 

when it comes to playing up to their contract then you have a point and ngata wasent worth it but so was pretty much the whole offense and some defenders so .....

when it comes to a players skill set and what it means to the team there is hardly any argument to ngata being 1 if not the most important player on defense.

 

like i said watch that SB final again.

with ngata the niners offense did not do much.

once he went out with an injury they ran all over us.

he was still the 2nd leading dliner with tackles this past season as a NT and the top dliner only had 1 more tackle.....

also as a pass rusher his job is also to create 1 on 1 match ups for the others guys and he did a good job and for the 1st part of the season we where racking up the sacks as a team.

the 2nd part we got less sacks but was that really because of ngata????

The team is being hurt by his massive cap hit and would be hurt if they kept the current roster, but cut him. It's a risk either way. 

 

Oh, right, I forgot that Joe Flacco's cap hit was massive, like Ngata's. That $6.8 million dollar cap hit (lower than Ngata's $11.5). Even if you're talking about this year, it's still lower than Ngata's. He may not have played well, but you'd be hard pressed to find a better quarterback to play for a cap hit lower than those. Yanda, not nearly as big of a cap hit at $7.5 million and $8.5 million, for last year and this year respectively. He may not have played stellar, but that's going to happen when you are making the line calls next to a first time center and playing next to one of the worst right tackles in the league. It also doesn't help that he had a torn rotator cuff in the offseason. Webb got better as the year progressed. I mean, did you expect him to light it up after a torn ACL? The fact that he got better as the year progressed makes him worth it for next year.

 

I'm not trying to make excuses for them, but what's the reason for Ngata's poor play at times? He played too high at times and with poor technique. He would get pushed around and taken out of plays. He has the highest cap hit on the team, and you would hope he'd play as one of the best players on the team. He had some dominant games, like Detroit, but those were rare.

 

The funny thing about Suggs is we're actually talking about cutting him. I don't think he's worth that cap hit, either. I'm one of the people who says cut him and believe that the signing of Elvis Dumervil makes that move possible.

 

I don't want to resign Jacoby Jones. He'll likely be way too expensive and he's only a number three receiver, at best, and that's a role Marlon Brown fills. If he wants to come in and be a rotational receiver and returner for around $2 million per season, I'm fine with that. With Dennis Pitta, I started a thread about resigning him, and I believe his value caps off at about $5 million. If he wants more than that, I say let him walk.

 

The players on the offense not being worth it can hardly be an argument. We're talking about Leach, who is likely going to be cut, Rice, who dealt with injuries, possibly being a cap casualty if he has a repeat of this year, and Yanda, who I talked about above. Joe's cap hit was so low that it's not worth it to talk about him.

 

I agree a nose tackle is one of the most important positions on the defense, if not the second most important behind the mike linebacker. I think you'd be hard pressed to find people who would argue that importance, but Ngata isn't playing dominant football anymore. 

 

I won't argue that the 49ers ran all over the place, but the defense had no depth. That's why we retooled the defense over the offseason. It also didn't help that Ma'ake Kemoeatu was the starter. He and Cody are like a fourth of what Ngata is, which is really scary. I won't argue he was the best defensive lineman we had, but we had no depth at that point. We drafted two defensive lineman and signed one. We were supposed to be putting Ngata back in a position where he could be dominant, and he wasn't.

 

I wouldn't blame the lack of sacks on Ngata. Terrell Suggs got heavier and seemed to become lazier as the season went on. Maybe the neck injury took a tole? Elvis Dumervil was still extremely productive in terms of getting pressures and hits, but he just wasn't hitting home.

 

Again, remember, I'm not advocating for him to be cut because we don't know how far Brandon Williams has come or whether a rookie could fill in. I think Brandon Williams could fill in once he refines his technique, hand placement, and plays with better pad level. 

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At the time of his signing he was considered the best player on D in the whole NFL. He hasn't really lived up to his contract but I wouldn't consider him a disappointment. He's mainly there to take up blockers and give a strong push up the middle and there was a lot of times I seen that but I didn't see enough edge pressure. Regardless there's nothing that can be done(trade or cut) we just gotta hope the Ngata(the year before the contract) makes a return or at least 80% of that.

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The team is being hurt by his massive cap hit and would be hurt if they kept the current roster, but cut him. It's a risk either way. 

 

Oh, right, I forgot that Joe Flacco's cap hit was massive, like Ngata's. That $6.8 million dollar cap hit (lower than Ngata's $11.5). Even if you're talking about this year, it's still lower than Ngata's. He may not have played well, but you'd be hard pressed to find a better quarterback to play for a cap hit lower than those. Yanda, not nearly as big of a cap hit at $7.5 million and $8.5 million, for last year and this year respectively. He may not have played stellar, but that's going to happen when you are making the line calls next to a first time center and playing next to one of the worst right tackles in the league. It also doesn't help that he had a torn rotator cuff in the offseason. Webb got better as the year progressed. I mean, did you expect him to light it up after a torn ACL? The fact that he got better as the year progressed makes him worth it for next year.

 

I'm not trying to make excuses for them, but what's the reason for Ngata's poor play at times? He played too high at times and with poor technique. He would get pushed around and taken out of plays. He has the highest cap hit on the team, and you would hope he'd play as one of the best players on the team. He had some dominant games, like Detroit, but those were rare.

 

The funny thing about Suggs is we're actually talking about cutting him. I don't think he's worth that cap hit, either. I'm one of the people who says cut him and believe that the signing of Elvis Dumervil makes that move possible.

 

I don't want to resign Jacoby Jones. He'll likely be way too expensive and he's only a number three receiver, at best, and that's a role Marlon Brown fills. If he wants to come in and be a rotational receiver and returner for around $2 million per season, I'm fine with that. With Dennis Pitta, I started a thread about resigning him, and I believe his value caps off at about $5 million. If he wants more than that, I say let him walk.

 

The players on the offense not being worth it can hardly be an argument. We're talking about Leach, who is likely going to be cut, Rice, who dealt with injuries, possibly being a cap casualty if he has a repeat of this year, and Yanda, who I talked about above. Joe's cap hit was so low that it's not worth it to talk about him.

 

I agree a nose tackle is one of the most important positions on the defense, if not the second most important behind the mike linebacker. I think you'd be hard pressed to find people who would argue that importance, but Ngata isn't playing dominant football anymore. 

 

I won't argue that the 49ers ran all over the place, but the defense had no depth. That's why we retooled the defense over the offseason. It also didn't help that Ma'ake Kemoeatu was the starter. He and Cody are like a fourth of what Ngata is, which is really scary. I won't argue he was the best defensive lineman we had, but we had no depth at that point. We drafted two defensive lineman and signed one. We were supposed to be putting Ngata back in a position where he could be dominant, and he wasn't.

 

I wouldn't blame the lack of sacks on Ngata. Terrell Suggs got heavier and seemed to become lazier as the season went on. Maybe the neck injury took a tole? Elvis Dumervil was still extremely productive in terms of getting pressures and hits, but he just wasn't hitting home.

 

Again, remember, I'm not advocating for him to be cut because we don't know how far Brandon Williams has come or whether a rookie could fill in. I think Brandon Williams could fill in once he refines his technique, hand placement, and plays with better pad level. 

 

 

okay im going to just be blunt and ask you if you have any idea how contracts and the cap works?

 

im still trying to figure out what the point is your are trying to make.

 

yeah sure his 16 mil cap hurts the ravens and he is still signed for 2 seasons.

there is no argument there.

 

but cutting him or trading isent solving anything and quite frankly will make things even worse.

cut him or trade him will free up 1 mil and no way you find a replacement at that price.

 

cutting him or trading him after june 1 will destroy the cap for the next season and no way any good FO will risk that.

 

extending him might be an option but FO never really do that with a player with 2 years left and health issues....

 

keeping him and his talent on the roster for a 16 mil cap hit is at this moment the best option the team has.

the NFL doesent have the option like the NBA to terminate a contract without it impacting the cap.

So hate it or love it we are stuck with him unless the FO does something radical...

 

so other then stating the obvious what exactly are you trying to argue with me? 

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okay im going to just be blunt and ask you if you have any idea how contracts and the cap works?

 

im still trying to figure out what the point is your are trying to make.

 

yeah sure his 16 mil cap hurts the ravens and he is still signed for 2 seasons.

there is no argument there.

 

but cutting him or trading isent solving anything and quite frankly will make things even worse.

cut him or trade him will free up 1 mil and no way you find a replacement at that price.

 

cutting him or trading him after june 1 will destroy the cap for the next season and no way any good FO will risk that.

 

extending him might be an option but FO never really do that with a player with 2 years left and health issues....

 

keeping him and his talent on the roster for a 16 mil cap hit is at this moment the best option the team has.

the NFL doesent have the option like the NBA to terminate a contract without it impacting the cap.

So hate it or love it we are stuck with him unless the FO does something radical...

 

so other then stating the obvious what exactly are you trying to argue with me? 

I do understand how cap numbers work. 

My point is that we're talking about cutting, extending, or trading Terrell Suggs, but no buzz about Ngata at all? Maybe that has to do with Ngata having two years left on his contract and only Suggs having one year left. 

 

Post June 1st cut or trade would free up $8 million in both seasons, which could be used to sign Torrey and Jimmy Smith, or exercise the fifth year option for Jimmy (That's the move I usually suggest as a possibility). It could be used to sign our draft picks, find a veteran similar to Daryl Smith post June 1st. There's a lot of options, and that's just something I was putting out there. I have only ever advocated for a post June 1st move if you read any of my posts.

 

I have said I would expect him to stay on the roster, but I was just floating that out there.

 

If you go back to the very first post that I quoted you in, I was just saying that his play was far diminished from what it was when he first signed this massive contract, and that he's hardly worth a $16 million cap it.

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I do understand how cap numbers work. 

My point is that we're talking about cutting, extending, or trading Terrell Suggs, but no buzz about Ngata at all? Maybe that has to do with Ngata having two years left on his contract and only Suggs having one year left. 

 

Post June 1st cut or trade would free up $8 million in both seasons, which could be used to sign Torrey and Jimmy Smith, or exercise the fifth year option for Jimmy (That's the move I usually suggest as a possibility). It could be used to sign our draft picks, find a veteran similar to Daryl Smith post June 1st. There's a lot of options, and that's just something I was putting out there. I have only ever advocated for a post June 1st move if you read any of my posts.

 

I have said I would expect him to stay on the roster, but I was just floating that out there.

 

If you go back to the very first post that I quoted you in, I was just saying that his play was far diminished from what it was when he first signed this massive contract, and that he's hardly worth a $16 million cap it.

 

 

There's been talk about it, but because there's such a low percentage of anything actually happening, the talk dies off quick.  It's forgone that Suggs cannot and will not be on the team at his current cap number.  With Ngata, there's a much higher percentage that he's on the team than not on the team.

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There's been talk about it, but because there's such a low percentage of anything actually happening, the talk dies off quick.  It's forgone that Suggs cannot and will not be on the team at his current cap number.  With Ngata, there's a much higher percentage that he's on the team than not on the team.

Players like Suggs and Ngata make me wonder why contracts aren't more front-loaded when the players are in their primes.

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Players like Suggs and Ngata make me wonder why contracts aren't more front-loaded when the players are in their primes.

 

Front loading the contracts is kind of a new practice. Kind of started when Dallas and Wash frontloaded contracts during the cap free year.

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Players like Suggs and Ngata make me wonder why contracts aren't more front-loaded when the players are in their primes.

 

 

Most of the time it's because they struggle to fit them under the cap, so they have to start low and build up as other contracts leave.  If you want a top player but only have $5M in cap space, you have to make it backloaded if you really want the player.  It's all in the cap space.  If you have tons, you can front load some, but with the Ravens success, it's hard to gain enough money in order to start that wave.

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I do understand how cap numbers work. 

My point is that we're talking about cutting, extending, or trading Terrell Suggs, but no buzz about Ngata at all? Maybe that has to do with Ngata having two years left on his contract and only Suggs having one year left. 

 

Post June 1st cut or trade would free up $8 million in both seasons, which could be used to sign Torrey and Jimmy Smith, or exercise the fifth year option for Jimmy (That's the move I usually suggest as a possibility). It could be used to sign our draft picks, find a veteran similar to Daryl Smith post June 1st. There's a lot of options, and that's just something I was putting out there. I have only ever advocated for a post June 1st move if you read any of my posts.

 

I have said I would expect him to stay on the roster, but I was just floating that out there.

 

If you go back to the very first post that I quoted you in, I was just saying that his play was far diminished from what it was when he first signed this massive contract, and that he's hardly worth a $16 million cap it.

 

 

yup it has every thing to do with 1 being in his last year and the other still having 2 seasons left.

 

ngata could save up 8 mil this season but will leave us with 8 mil in dead money the prior season.

 

you will bascially have a guy counting against the cap for 2 seasons while he is playing on another team.

if it was a bad player then perhaps but ngata still is 1 of the better players at his position.

 

You make a good point that with money that comes free you can resign other guys but you seem to forget that you have to find replacement as well.

 

getting a guy from FA who can fill his shoes wont come cheap and you wont find a player of his caliber in later rounds unless you want to spend a high draft pick on him.

think the offense is a more pressing need.

 

the team can release him but they better have a solution on making up for his loss.

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im tired of this 100% bs with Ngata. Great players make plays and no one is 100% as the season winds down. Ngata is overrated. PLain and simple. Hes a glorified run stopper who has a cool name and when he hits people the world notices.

Trevor Pryce and Correy redding did the real work. I dont see much difference between Ngata and even a past his prime kelly gregg.

 

I always get pissed when some of our players get underrated by the media, but ngata is without doubt overrated by the media

 

During his first fews years, up until he got paid, he was absolutely dominant. He earned every ounce of respect that he received.  The last 2 years he's been plagued w/ injuries and has been a shell of his former self. He made the Pro Bowl by name alone, not on anything he did this year. When a big man like that has injuries that pile up on him, the play just declines severely and truly never finds that form again, unfortunately. 

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