Joe Flacco and Gary Kubiak

[Poes Crows]

CBSSports.com's Doug Gottlieb not only thinks Flacco won't succeed with the bootleg, but he thinks the offense will be worse next season under Kubiak. "You need a really athletic quarterback because you're running a lot of bootlegs, and that's not really Joe Flacco," Gottlieb said in this video. "It's not that Joe Flacco isn't a good athlete, he's actually a really good athlete, but he's not somebody you want to roll out, plant his feet and throw the ball. He's a down-field thrower. "This to me strikes me as a guy who is a really good offensive coordinator with a really good quarterback with a really bad fit for each other. I don't see them getting better. I see them fighting over the play calling and the set up and the depth of the drops."

what is everyone thought about the comment.

 

Have to seriously discount Doug Gottlieb's (Who is he?) opinion. 

 

If Matt Schaub, the most immobile quarterback in the league can fake a handoff and bootleg off that fake, Joe Flacco most certainly can. 

 

If Gottlieb is reporting on sports he needs to stick to darts or bowling, where he can study immobility.

[PurpleCityLights]

Im just glad Kubiak will run the offense & Johns back to just holding the red flags on the side lines...

[Hardbaugh]

Far be it from me that I defend Joe Flacco but he's more mobile than Gottlieb thinks. While not fleet those long legs on that 6'6' frame gobble up yardage.  IIRC in the 3 cone drill at the combine Flacco led all quarterbacks.

 

I felt in the past when Cam would have him roll out Flacco was very effective, especially to his right. It boggles the mind that it wasn't more designed movement and three step drops  this season from the quarterback position because the offensive line was so poor.

 

Gottlieb should stick to writing about basketball or subjects he understands.

 

If Flacco and (healthy) Rice buy into the new offensive staff they could easily have their best years ahead..

[Inqui]

Okay, first, lets address the fact that you dont have to be "mobile" to run a bootleg. Peyton Manning scored a Td on one this year and Russell Wilson was strip-sacked on one last game.

Second, and this is more broad, but i'm tired of people making negative assumptions on Flacco that are just plainly wrong. He is in no way above criticism, nor is he perfect, but this is just stupid. I remember

people saying his mechanics stink, his delivery is slow, he cant throw intermediate routes, cant move in the pocket... all of them baseless and only brought up because he succeeded so obviouly in another area and cant possibly be good at two things.

Basically that's what I was thinking. Joe's been pretty much pigeonholed into being a long-ranged bomber for most of his career, and that's what he's basing it off.

 

I try to give mainstream media some leeway because they don't have the time to go through all 32 teams with the same fine-toothed comb we as fans do, but Joe's been plenty mobile and superb at the short-ranged game in the past 12 months alone (not all at once obviously, but it's not like you have to go digging to find that stuff). Not watching the Ravens pretty much disqualifies him from having any reputable opinion of the Ravens. Same reason I don't try to critique the Cardinals.

[izvoodoo]

Far be it from me that I defend Joe Flacco but he's more mobile than Gottlieb thinks. While not fleet those long legs on that 6'6' frame gobble up yardage.  IIRC in the 3 cone drill at the combine Flacco led all quarterbacks.

 

I felt in the past when Cam would have him roll out Flacco was very effective, especially to his right. It boggles the mind that it wasn't more designed movement and three step drops  this season from the quarterback position because the offensive line was so poor.

 

Gottlieb should stick to writing about basketball or subjects he understands.

 

If Flacco and (healthy) Rice buy into the new offensive staff they could easily have their best years ahead..

 

 

Im just glad Kubiak will run the offense & Johns back to just holding the red flags on the side lines...

His argument isn't so much that Flacco can't run, it's that he'll have trouble planting his feet and throwing if you keep rolling him out.

[flynismo]

Far be it from me that I defend Joe Flacco but he's more mobile than Gottlieb thinks. While not fleet those long legs on that 6'6' frame gobble up yardage. IIRC in the 3 cone drill at the combine Flacco led all quarterbacks.

I felt in the past when Cam would have him roll out Flacco was very effective, especially to his right. It boggles the mind that it wasn't more designed movement and three step drops this season from the quarterback position because the offensive line was so poor.

Gottlieb should stick to writing about basketball or subjects he understands.

If Flacco and (healthy) Rice buy into the new offensive staff they could easily have their best years ahead..

You know you said something profoundly idiotic about Flacco when Hardbaugh defends Flacco. LOL

[arnie_uk]

Far be it from me that I defend Joe Flacco but he's more mobile than Gottlieb thinks. While not fleet those long legs on that 6'6' frame gobble up yardage. IIRC in the 3 cone drill at the combine Flacco led all quarterbacks.

I felt in the past when Cam would have him roll out Flacco was very effective, especially to his right. It boggles the mind that it wasn't more designed movement and three step drops this season from the quarterback position because the offensive line was so poor.

Gottlieb should stick to writing about basketball or subjects he understands.

If Flacco and (healthy) Rice buy into the new offensive staff they could easily have their best years ahead..

this is spot on. I remeber a bengals game at home 2 seasons ago I think he hit torrey on a bomb for a td from a bootleg. The same game torrey got tackled by his hair after a 40 odd yard gain, from a bootleg. He also hit boldin twice in bootlegs in the same game.

Too often we ran a bootled and it was to the left and he does struggle planting and shaping his body to through at that side.

[Ravensfan23]

His argument isn't so much that Flacco can't run, it's that he'll have trouble planting his feet and throwing if you keep rolling him out.

That makes the comment even worse imo. All the bootleg is disgned to do is recreate the LOS and QBs lauch point. You want to create distance between the QB and defenders to give him more time to throw. I think it's foolish to think that a guy who is athletic enough to espace the pocket and throw accurately on the run won't be able to move away from the original LOS, plant his feet with plenty of space between he and the LOS and be able to deliver a pass.

Greg Cosell said Flacco could run any offense and I agree. I'll even go as far to say, while you wouldn't want him doing it consistent, Flacco is athletic enough to sprinkle in some read option offense and have success with it. I think for someone to not only think Flacco can't run bootleg pass plays, but think that the whole offense will fail because of it is foolish. Also if the actual "rollout" part of the bootleg was an issue, all Kubiak would have to do is shorten the rolled and have Joe take a deeper drop. Because most times the play is just designed to hold the rush. There are so many different things Flacco and Kubiak can do in thiis offense to make it work, it's hard for me to look at this article as nothing more then a guy making assumptions. Which is what we all do actually, but this guy is way far off. I'd rather take the opinons of guys who have either been in this offense, coached agaisnt it or had to see it often. Winston, Leach, Jacoby, Bill Polian, Larry Coyer and Greg Cosell all think it's a perfect match. I'll take that.

[Ravensfan23]

this is spot on. I remeber a bengals game at home 2 seasons ago I think he hit torrey on a bomb for a td from a bootleg. The same game torrey got tackled by his hair after a 40 odd yard gain, from a bootleg. He also hit boldin twice in bootlegs in the same game.

Too often we ran a bootled and it was to the left and he does struggle planting and shaping his body to through at that side.

Torrey's 2nd Career TD against the Rams was off a bootleg. The deep pass to Boldin against the Texans in 2011 was off of bootleg, and many other plays. This is exactly why I wanted this offense for Joe because he does bootleg well, he'll need a better play fake but honestly the run action is what sells it anyway. With the Arm that Joe has, can you imagine the plays Kubiak can come up with? He could run that stretch zone play fake, bootleg right and have a deep post corner route all the way on the backside simply because Flacco can actually make that throw. I wish I could just sit in on 2 days of his film study breaking down Joe and tailoring his offense to fit Joe.

[FerrariFan87]

Far be it from me that I defend Joe Flacco but he's more mobile than Gottlieb thinks. While not fleet those long legs on that 6'6' frame gobble up yardage.  IIRC in the 3 cone drill at the combine Flacco led all quarterbacks.

 

I felt in the past when Cam would have him roll out Flacco was very effective, especially to his right. It boggles the mind that it wasn't more designed movement and three step drops  this season from the quarterback position because the offensive line was so poor.

 

Gottlieb should stick to writing about basketball or subjects he understands.

 

If Flacco and (healthy) Rice buy into the new offensive staff they could easily have their best years ahead..

I like this new, optimistic, positive Hardbaugh...

 

I think Flacco's very athletic and has performed bootlegs well in his career. No reason to think he won't improve immensely.

[callahan09]

Have to seriously discount Doug Gottlieb's (Who is he?) opinion. 

 

If Matt Schaub, the most immobile quarterback in the league can fake a handoff and bootleg off that fake, Joe Flacco most certainly can. 

 

If Gottlieb is reporting on sports he needs to stick to darts or bowling, where he can study immobility.

Yeah, I don't understand how he's going to say Kubiak and Flacco won't work together because Flacco isn't mobile / athletic enough, when Kubiak just spent the last 7 seasons working with Matt freaking Schaub!

 

A little statistical look at them (not perfect, but certainly paints a picture) since 2008:

 

Flacco has 228 rush attempts for 561 yards.

Schaub has 142 rush attempts for 177 yards.

 

But of course those numbers include kneeldowns, so let's take them out of the equation so we can get a more true look at what they're doing.

 

Flacco had 77 kneeldowns for -75 yards.

Schaub had 59 kneeldowns for -58 yards.

 

When we subtract those numbers from their stats, you get these actual rushing stats:

 

Flacco: 151 rush attempts for 636 yards = 4.21 yards per attempt

Schaub: 83 rush attempts for 235 yards = 2.83 yards per attempt

 

That's 49% better in the yards per attempt category for Flacco over Schaub.

 

Then I got curious about QB Sneak attempts, as these plays are generally not going to get you more than 1 yard, so it seems reasonable to exclude them, as it's just a different sort of play entirely and doesn't really have anything to do with QB mobility / athleticism.  So:

 

Flacco had 44 QB Sneaks for 62 yards.

Schaub had 22 QB Sneaks for 23 yards.

 

Therefore, their actual, true rushing performances look like this:

 

Flacco: 107 rush attempts for 574 yards = 5.36 yards per attempt

Schaub: 61 rush attempts for 212 yards = 3.48 yards per attempt

 

Which brings the difference in their yards per attempt up to a 54% increase for Flacco over Schaub.

[TXRavensFan]

Torrey's 2nd Career TD against the Rams was off a bootleg. The deep pass to Boldin against the Texans in 2011 was off of bootleg, and many other plays. This is exactly why I wanted this offense for Joe because he does bootleg well, he'll need a better play fake but honestly the run action is what sells it anyway. With the Arm that Joe has, can you imagine the plays Kubiak can come up with? He could run that stretch zone play fake, bootleg right and have a deep post corner route all the way on the backside simply because Flacco can actually make that throw. I wish I could just sit in on 2 days of his film study breaking down Joe and tailoring his offense to fit Joe.

 

Dust off some of those plays he used to call for Elway now that he's got another QB with the arm to make those throws.

 

Edit: it was painful to type "Elway" lol

[Ravensfan23]

Dust off some of those plays he used to call for Elway now that he's got another QB with the arm to make those throws.

 

Edit: it was painful to type "Elway" lol

I actually did in a post I made about how the QB sets this offense apart and I had to delete it lol

[shawn ny]

Flacco is an incredibly athletic QB and will do fine running the bootleg.  The comment about the offense being worse than this year is somewhat plausible...However the year after next will be a total breakout season!

[52N19]

flacco is light years ahead of schaub in the mental and physical part of the game.   

 

a political pundit once said "its the economy stupid"

 

in football "its the offensive line stupid". if you can't run the ball or protect the QB i don't care who is behind center or on the sideline.

[Poes Crows]

Yeah, I don't understand how he's going to say Kubiak and Flacco won't work together because Flacco isn't mobile / athletic enough, when Kubiak just spent the last 7 seasons working with Matt freaking Schaub!

 

A little statistical look at them (not perfect, but certainly paints a picture) since 2008:

 

Flacco has 228 rush attempts for 561 yards.

Schaub has 142 rush attempts for 177 yards.

 

But of course those numbers include kneeldowns, so let's take them out of the equation so we can get a more true look at what they're doing.

 

Flacco had 77 kneeldowns for -75 yards.

Schaub had 59 kneeldowns for -58 yards.

 

When we subtract those numbers from their stats, you get these actual rushing stats:

 

Flacco: 151 rush attempts for 636 yards = 4.21 yards per attempt

Schaub: 83 rush attempts for 235 yards = 2.83 yards per attempt

 

That's 49% better in the yards per attempt category for Flacco over Schaub.

 

Then I got curious about QB Sneak attempts, as these plays are generally not going to get you more than 1 yard, so it seems reasonable to exclude them, as it's just a different sort of play entirely and doesn't really have anything to do with QB mobility / athleticism.  So:

 

Flacco had 44 QB Sneaks for 62 yards.

Schaub had 22 QB Sneaks for 23 yards.

 

Therefore, their actual, true rushing performances look like this:

 

Flacco: 107 rush attempts for 574 yards = 5.36 yards per attempt

Schaub: 61 rush attempts for 212 yards = 3.48 yards per attempt

 

Which brings the difference in their yards per attempt up to a 54% increase for Flacco over Schaub.

 

Very persuasive.

 

You sure love statistics!

 

We share the same opinion upon Flacco's ability to get the job done in the new Raven's scheme!

 

This fan pays almost no attention to statistics, relying instead upon the eyeball and level of competition tests, which includes play making ability, but won't argue with your statistics.

[PerpetuallyBored74]

QB 40 times (from their Pro Days or NFL Combine)

 

Joe Flacco = 4.84 (low of 4.74 / high of 4.94)
Alex Smith = 4.71 (no low or high given)
Aaron Rodgers = 4.71 (no low or high given)
Troy Smith = 4.72 (low of 4.67 / high of 4.78)
Matt Ryan = 4.89 (low of 4.82 / high of 5.04)
Matthew Stafford = 4.81 (low of 4.73 / high of 4.93)
Mark Sanchez = 4.93 (low of 4.82 / high of 5.04)
Josh Freeman = 4.90 (low of 4.82 / high of 5.08)
Tim Tebow = 4.71 (low of 4.62 / high of 4.79)
Colt McCoy = 4.79 (low of 4.67 / high of 4.86)
Andy Dalton = 4.82 (low of 4.76 / high of 4.98)
Kirk Cousins = 4.84 (low of 4.73 / high of 5.01)
Nick Foles = 5.03 (low of 4.95 / high of 5.16)
Matt Schaub = 5.04 (no low or high given)

 

Not only is Flacco faster than Schaub, he's faster or about as fast as many QBs that most football fans would say are more athletic than Flacco.

[Bruce_Almty]

callahan09, on 29 Jan 2014 - 12:46 PM, said:

 

A little statistical look at them

 

Would like to know where you got ur data from. What site?

[ellicottraven]

I believe kubiak is going to fix Joe Flacco's game. He won't make him a Brady or a Manning or even a Rodgers, but he will make him a fairly decent QB like he did Schaub. I think Joe is more gifted than Shcaub is but Schaub was able to diagnose and dissect defenses better than Joe has been. So, Kubiak is going to help Joe throw a few more TDs than INTs this year. That will be awesome if Joe can get about 24-25 TDs this year with less than 15 INTs! I think he may also cross the 60% mark and just get over the 4000 yd hump too! It is his 7th year in the league too. If not now, then when? If not now, then it is pretty close to never!

[arnie_uk]

I believe kubiak is going to fix Joe Flacco's game. He won't make him a Brady or a Manning or even a Rodgers, but he will make him a fairly decent QB like he did Schaub. I think Joe is more gifted than Shcaub is but Schaub was able to diagnose and dissect defenses better than Joe has been. So, Kubiak is going to help Joe throw a few more TDs than INTs this year. That will be awesome if Joe can get about 24-25 TDs this year with less than 15 INTs! I think he may also cross the 60% mark and just get over the 4000 yd hump too! It is his 7th year in the league too. If not now, then when? If not now, then it is pretty close to never!

this post is so full of crap and ypur pure hatred for flacco and lack of football knowledge clearly shines through. Flacco has only hit 15 ints twice before this year. His rookie year and 2nd year. He's also pasr 25 tds in his career before so that wont be a new landmark either.

And the year before last he would easily have hit 4k if he didnt get pulled in the cinic gamw after a qtr.

If yyou also had any football knowledge you'd realise we run and alot and thus restrict his chance at big yardage. We also run a low percentage offence attempting more deep balls than average thus have a worse percentage rate.

Kubiak wont be fixing flaccos game per se, but fixing the outdated scheme to become more efficenct thus providing an improvement in stats.

Will he improve him of course he will, but the biggest improvement that comes witg him being here is scheme and play calling.

[The Raven]

this post is so full of crap and ypur pure hatred for flacco and lack of football knowledge clearly shines through. Flacco has only hit 15 ints twice before this year. His rookie year and 2nd year. He's also pasr 25 tds in his career before so that wont be a new landmark either.

And the year before last he would easily have hit 4k if he didnt get pulled in the cinic gamw after a qtr.

If yyou also had any football knowledge you'd realise we run and alot and thus restrict his chance at big yardage. We also run a low percentage offence attempting more deep balls than average thus have a worse percentage rate.

Kubiak wont be fixing flaccos game per se, but fixing the outdated scheme to become more efficenct thus providing an improvement in stats.

Will he improve him of course he will, but the biggest improvement that comes witg him being here is scheme and play calling.

 

Moreover, there's a great chance he would have gotten to 4000 against Cincy if his receivers showed up and the line didn't get him injured. He threw for less than 200 yards, and he missed 4000 by about 90. 

 

I don't like when people criticize him for not reaching 4000, because it's just ignorance. 

[flynismo]

this post is so full of crap and ypur pure hatred for flacco and lack of football knowledge clearly shines through. Flacco has only hit 15 ints twice before this year. His rookie year and 2nd year. He's also pasr 25 tds in his career before so that wont be a new landmark either.

And the year before last he would easily have hit 4k if he didnt get pulled in the cinic gamw after a qtr.

If yyou also had any football knowledge you'd realise we run and alot and thus restrict his chance at big yardage. We also run a low percentage offence attempting more deep balls than average thus have a worse percentage rate.

Kubiak wont be fixing flaccos game per se, but fixing the outdated scheme to become more efficenct thus providing an improvement in stats.

Will he improve him of course he will, but the biggest improvement that comes witg him being here is scheme and play calling.

Flacco has never thrown more than 12 INT prior to this season.

unless you count postseason. and if you count postseason, then that means he threw for just under 5k yards last season.

[flynismo]

Moreover, there's a great chance he would have gotten to 4000 against Cincy if his receivers showed up and the line didn't get him injured. He threw for less than 200 yards, and he missed 4000 by about 90.

I don't like when people criticize him for not reaching 4000, because it's just ignorance.

it is incredibly stupid to hold people to arbitrary stats. why 4,000 yards? why not 3,891 yards or 4,108?

[arnie_uk]

Flacco has never thrown more than 12 INT prior to this season.

unless you count postseason. and if you count postseason, then that means he threw for just under 5k yards last season.

I was looking at postseason for interceptions for some reason

[ellicottraven]

this post is so full of crap and ypur pure hatred for flacco and lack of football knowledge clearly shines through. Flacco has only hit 15 ints twice before this year. His rookie year and 2nd year. He's also pasr 25 tds in his career before so that wont be a new landmark either.

And the year before last he would easily have hit 4k if he didnt get pulled in the cinic gamw after a qtr.

If yyou also had any football knowledge you'd realise we run and alot and thus restrict his chance at big yardage. We also run a low percentage offence attempting more deep balls than average thus have a worse percentage rate.

Kubiak wont be fixing flaccos game per se, but fixing the outdated scheme to become more efficenct thus providing an improvement in stats.

Will he improve him of course he will, but the biggest improvement that comes witg him being here is scheme and play calling.

There is absolutely no need to take it so personally dude. Take a long break and a lot of deep breaths. It isn't like what I said isn't true. If Flacco did that we would have a chance was my point. No, I don't hate Flacco but I have come to realize he isn't the best QB in the league either. I believe Flacco is who he is. It is time you own up to that without getting your garment in a bunch!

As for my football knowledge don't be judgmental and foolish. Your anger at someone questioning your man darling Flacco has sullied your mood and clouded your thinking. Like I said, just relax. I don't hate Flacco at all. It is just that I don't have a fetish for him like you seem to have.

[Tank 92]

There is absolutely no need to take it so personally dude. Take a long break and a lot of deep breaths. It isn't like what I said isn't true. If Flacco did that we would have a chance was my point. No, I don't hate Flacco but I have come to realize he isn't the best QB in the league either. I believe Flacco is who he is. It is time you own up to that without getting your garment in a bunch!

As for my football knowledge don't be judgmental and foolish. Your anger at someone questioning your man darling Flacco has sullied your mood and clouded your thinking. Like I said, just relax. I don't hate Flacco at all. It is just that I don't have a fetish for him like you seem to have.

 

 

A Flacco fetish!?  That's a new one.

[Ravenslifer]

I believe kubiak is going to fix Joe Flacco's game. He won't make him a Brady or a Manning or even a Rodgers, but he will make him a fairly decent QB like he did Schaub. I think Joe is more gifted than Shcaub is but Schaub was able to diagnose and dissect defenses better than Joe has been. So, Kubiak is going to help Joe throw a few more TDs than INTs this year. That will be awesome if Joe can get about 24-25 TDs this year with less than 15 INTs! I think he may also cross the 60% mark and just get over the 4000 yd hump too! It is his 7th year in the league too. If not now, then when? If not now, then it is pretty close to never!

 

Took Brady and Roethlisberger 6 years to hit 4000. And they played the full season that year, didn't get taken out at half-time.

[ratedr]

Flacco a bad athlete?

(The Video Sucks but Bare with me)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIJfZ5gvi5U

Unathletic guys don't run for 38 yard TDs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCwalIkeW4s

And proof of being able to roll out of the pocket

Man Flacco was AMAZING in the Super Bowl. Maybe hos best game ever. The way he moved in the pocket was incredible.

[PolishRifle]

Man Flacco was AMAZING in the Super Bowl. Maybe hos best game ever. The way he moved in the pocket was incredible.

 

To move well in the pocket you need to have a pocket in the first place. Joe actually showed alot of the same mobility in the last season, but without pass protection. The OL needs to get fixed ASAP. I pray, we manage to get Monroe signed.

[Ravenslifer]

Man Flacco was AMAZING in the Super Bowl. Maybe hos best game ever. The way he moved in the pocket was incredible.

 

You also have to look at who was catching those passes - Boldin and Pitta did most of it, the two guys we did without this season.  2 guys with great hands that also had 3 years of working with Joe, that Joe trusted the most - that's the one thing about Joe, when he gets rushed he'll always look to one or two guys.  Joe never really developed a solid rapport with Clark this season, and then Pitta came back and Clark became irrelevant.  After the Denver game, Joe went away from Dickson for a few games, so they took some time to build a rapport as well.  I'm hoping that whoever we draft or sign in FA, they all spend a lot of time working together learning Kubiak's offense as well as learning to trust each other this offseason.