Are the Ravens going back to a run-first team?

[Ravensfan23]

I don't know why we stopped using him, to be honest.  I know Jacoby came back from injury, but we were doing really well with a rotation of guys that do different things.  Doss hardly played at that point.  I still don't understand why people hate him so much.  He turned in a really good season considering he was cut, played well, and then was relegated back to the bench.

Yea, I think Doss and Mellette are the same type players so I can't wait to see them compete for time. Doss is a catch and run, returner type and this offense willl definitely allow him to do that. Double moves off of PA plays, allowing him to work in space will be really good for TD.

I think people hate him becaue he was "quote" hand picked by Joe and he hasn't put up good numbers so far. Our fanbase seems to have issue with the term "development". He played in a offense that didn't suit his skill set, but I think this offense will be really good for him.

[FerrariFan87]

To answer the topic question, I think the Ravens have always been "run-first," but given injuries and a terrible OL, that wasn't the case this season.

 

That being said, I think the running game is going to be back to normal, and probably a lot better/more explosive.

[ravens533]

Kubiak will work to design an offense around what the players do best. I think that he will watch film from the past couple of years to determine the best way to use all the weapons we have on offence. We really have some very good to great players right now. I am not sure we need another WR until we see how what we have works with what Kubiak wants. My guess is offensively we need to straighten up the o-line and get another receiving/blocking TE before we need to consider another receiver. I think that with the talent we already have  - that has been misused - Kubiak can put together a formidable offense. Put that with a great defense we will go far into the playoffs easily. We need that free safety more than we need another receiver. I would like to see what a well designed offense and a good WR coach can do for/with the WRs we have. If we get some receiver out of the first few rounds of the draft, we still can not be sure that he will work well with the speed and size of the NFL.  But to answer your concern we will always need a good run offense it sets up all the rest. We will be balanced and can change what we rely on based on what works at any given time against whatever opponent we face that week. I also think that we will have the kind of offense that will be able to adjust better against what a defense shows us. 

[BBRavens]

without a running game we wont be heading anywhere

 

Agreed. Time of possession is so critical in the game today. If you can't control the clock when you're in the lead or close games then it becomes a detriment to your game plan.

[JoeyFlex5]

I don't know why we stopped using him, to be honest.  I know Jacoby came back from injury, but we were doing really well with a rotation of guys that do different things.  Doss hardly played at that point.  I still don't understand why people hate him so much.  He turned in a really good season considering he was cut, played well, and then was relegated back to the bench.

i havent even thought of doss and the only time i couldnt stand him was after the horrible preseason he turned in this year, before that i was a supporter the whole way, and even afterhe came back from cuts, i thought thecut would have lit a fire under his bum and made him step up, and it did, but then he fizzled out. i think he can be the guy we have wanted him to be in a kubiak offense. if he can play like he did in that 4-5 game stretch consistently, and if marlon brown can continue to improve, all we need is a true #1 that can do everything, and our role players at WR will skyrocket this offense into something potent. but i still believe with all the speed and size in the world at WR, they will mean nothing if you dont have a guy with very strong routes, excellent hands, and makes catches anywhere on the field, aka a true #1.

[JoeyFlex5]

Hopefully, this will be the first time that Joe Flacco and Ray Rice will be used properly in their careers. Both have been misused and abused at different times. It seemed like there were a lot of times when they weren't on the same page. Now, they will be. Ray is not the type of runner who should carry the ball 30 times a game and Joe should not be throwing the ball 50 times a game. We will finally see Joe throw for 4,000 yards with a completion percentage around 65% while Ray gets 2,000 all purpose yards all in the same season. In the past, Joe has been forced to throw deep because the offense was designed to do that and his passing stats were affected adversely. Ray was forced to carry the ball too much at times and was used too sparingly at other times. Fans and pundits were saying that if he carried the ball at least 30 times the Ravens would be winning. The fans and the pundits were wrong. There was no balance. He should be used more like Darren Sproules is used as a all-purpose back who carries the ball approximately 20 times a game but also catches passes out of the backfield. It can be debated long and hard as to whether we are returning to a run-first team but it still appears we'll be a pass-first team to set up the run. Without a big back like Jamal, Willis or Ricky to platoon with Ray, we are not going to be a run-first team, especially in the red zone where a big back can be a dangerous weapon.

 

I believe this is only the first step in revamping the offense. The next step will be getting the right players around Joe in the huddle. If we do, next year should be very exciting. However, I just heard the Dallas Cowboys described as the most dysfunctional team in the league in light of their decision to hire their 3rd OC in three years. So, C'mon Oz!! 

so bernard pierce isnt a big back, but willis mcgahee and ricky williams in their final years were big backs? mcgahee was a wily vet with a strong nose for the endzone, and ricky williams was solid for us, but bernard pierce is one tough dude when hes toting the rock. no RB would have succeeded behind that o-line last year. pierce is that big back, and hes gonna shine as a workhorse in a kubiak system, as long as our line can hold up

[rmw10]

i havent even thought of doss and the only time i couldnt stand him was after the horrible preseason he turned in this year, before that i was a supporter the whole way, and even afterhe came back from cuts, i thought thecut would have lit a fire under his bum and made him step up, and it did, but then he fizzled out. i think he can be the guy we have wanted him to be in a kubiak offense. if he can play like he did in that 4-5 game stretch consistently, and if marlon brown can continue to improve, all we need is a true #1 that can do everything, and our role players at WR will skyrocket this offense into something potent. but i still believe with all the speed and size in the world at WR, they will mean nothing if you dont have a guy with very strong routes, excellent hands, and makes catches anywhere on the field, aka a true #1.

He fizzled out because Jacoby came back, not because of poor performance. Even if it wasn't the same amount of snaps as he was getting, I still think we should've given him some snaps in hopes of keeping that fire rolling. I don't think he's an answer, but I think he's a good reserve option that fell victim to an OC that was committed to Torrey, Marlon, and Jacoby.

[JoeyFlex5]

He fizzled out because Jacoby came back, not because of poor performance. Even if it wasn't the same amount of snaps as he was getting, I still think we should've given him some snaps in hopes of keeping that fire rolling. I don't think he's an answer, but I think he's a good reserve option that fell victim to an OC that was committed to Torrey, Marlon, and Jacoby.

i still maintain that doss would havebeen a better option than jacoby as a 2nd wr. id still rather have jacoby on the roster than doss just because in 1/3rd of the snaps he can still have more of an impact as a big playthreat, but as a every down kinda guy id rather see doss out there, his hands and routes are much better

[rmw10]

i still maintain that doss would havebeen a better option than jacoby as a 2nd wr. id still rather have jacoby on the roster than doss just because in 1/3rd of the snaps he can still have more of an impact as a big playthreat, but as a every down kinda guy id rather see doss out there, his hands and routes are much better

I hope he sticks around. I think he's a great fit for Kubiak's offense. He's good in crossing routes, slant routes, pick plays, and finding holes in zone coverage. I think, if he does as well as he did last year in those few games, that he could help open up the deep ball. It would provide better balance other than those low percentage plays constantly.

[flygunit88]

Surprised At Some People On These Boards...

[Militant X 1]

We're not trying to be run first or pass first or whatever. We're going to be balanced. We're going to do what works. Kubiak isn't run first. He's balanced. And just lol at run first or pass first. No good offense pigeon holes themselves as run first or pass first. Look at New England. 

 

Yeah, Flacco got a pay day. What does that have to do with our scheme? He got paid because he's a franchise QB. That doesn't mean we're not allowed to run the ball. That doesn't mean Flacco can carry a team that averages 3 yards a carry. Look at the Patriots. They have a great QB in Brady, but they lean on the ground game a lot, more than the media will have you believe. Want an example? AFCCG. Running game didn't work, and the offense fell apart.

 

Texans had the number one passing offense a few years ago, so I don't even see what the point of this thread was. If you're trying to say that running an offense that likes to establish the run and lean on it a bit makes Flacco a waste of money, well, sorry, that's just wrong.

 

This offense is all about balance, doing what works, doing what fits the personnel, and taking advantage of what the defense gives you.

 

I've said this a few times in here myself!  Preach!  lol!

 

#Mili

[bauer77]

I have no idea what the Ravens are doing.  I'm not sure they know what they want to do.  They went out and drafted a bunch of receivers for Flacco.... and now it appears they will be trying to go back to a running-first offense with Kubiak.

 

 

Um, what? We haven't drafted that many receivers for Flacco. Torrey and Pitta have been the only ones that produced. 

[Ravensfan23]

I hope he sticks around. I think he's a great fit for Kubiak's offense. He's good in crossing routes, slant routes, pick plays, and finding holes in zone coverage. I think, if he does as well as he did last year in those few games, that he could help open up the deep ball. It would provide better balance other than those low percentage plays constantly.

Yea don't forget about Doss in the return game. He isn't as dynamic as Coby but he's definitely good enough to be the guy. I completely agree with his usage in this offense. There is a really good article in the Sun about Kubiak's offense and I think it'll answer a lot of questions people have.

This offense deals with so much misdirection and run action that guys like Doss will live in space. The talent on this offense will finally be used and I can't wait. Doss, Mellette, Furstenburg, Juice, even Marlon Bown and Torrey will be used better. Rice and Pierce will have so much more success imo, simply because they won't just be last resorts in the pass game but their be featured with screens, flares, option routes, wheel routes and much more.

I'm like a kid on Christmas right now. For years I've been wishing ill will on the Texans so they would fire Kubiak and we hire him. Now we have that offense and it's time to roll. Plus I think this offense will be much better then what he had in Houston, because we have much better talent, mainly at the QB. This offense made Schuab look better but it'll allow Flacco to soar imo.

[frozen joe flacco fan]

so bernard pierce isnt a big back, but willis mcgahee and ricky williams in their final years were big backs? mcgahee was a wily vet with a strong nose for the endzone, and ricky williams was solid for us, but bernard pierce is one tough dude when hes toting the rock. no RB would have succeeded behind that o-line last year. pierce is that big back, and hes gonna shine as a workhorse in a kubiak system, as long as our line can hold up

 

I'm glad your confident that Bernard Pierce is the big back we need. I'm not and I'm certainly not ready to compare Pierce with Lewis, McGahee or Williams. It may have been a mistake to give up on Bobby Rainey when we did. We'll just have to wait and see. The jury is still out but Rainey had a pretty good year with the Bucs, didn't he? Hmmm, there's that talent evaluator factor again! 

[The Raven]

I'm glad your confident that Bernard Pierce is the big back we need. I'm not and I'm certainly not ready to compare Pierce with Lewis, McGahee or Williams. It may have been a mistake to give up on Bobby Rainey when we did. We'll just have to wait and see. The jury is still out but Rainey had a pretty good year with the Bucs, didn't he? Hmmm, there's that talent evaluator factor again! 

 

1. We clearly didn't have room for Rainey. It wasn't a matter of talent evaluation, it was a matter of evaluating what position we needed more depth at.

 

2. We didn't have a good line. Rainey would not have had success behind our line. 

[JoeyFlex5]

I'm glad your confident that Bernard Pierce is the big back we need. I'm not and I'm certainly not ready to compare Pierce with Lewis, McGahee or Williams. It may have been a mistake to give up on Bobby Rainey when we did. We'll just have to wait and see. The jury is still out but Rainey had a pretty good year with the Bucs, didn't he? Hmmm, there's that talent evaluator factor again! 

bobby rainey is sorry and he had 2 decent games with tampa and he averaged like 40 ypg aside from those 2. also he definitely isnt a "big back" type of player youre looking for, hes a ray rice clone(the ray rice of 2013) 

 

i dont understand how ravens fans see him on the fantasy scoreboard a few times and start calling for peoples heads because we cut him. i wouldve rather kept anthony allen because at least when he saw the field on special teams he made a difference

[CalvinSmoke]

Hopefully Pierce's surgery brings him back even stronger:

 

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/ravens-insider/bal-bernard-pierce-had-rotator-cuff-surgery-today-in-philadelphia-20140129,0,747150.story

[HoldingCall]

A year after signing Flacco to a huge contract basically stating "he is the man, he is our offensive leader.... the Ravens sign an offensive coordinator who built his offense around a stron running game using the fullback position more than most.

I have no idea what the Ravens are doing.  I'm not sure they know what they want to do.  They went out and drafted a bunch of receivers for Flacco.... and now it appears they will be trying to go back to a running-first offense with Kubiak.

Ravens looked to be completely done with Leach, and now it looks like they will be keeping him around.  Those dollars take away money to help rebuild the offensive line that everyone blamed this past season.

And does anyone EVER believe a play-fake that Flacco runs?  That's kind of a big part of Kubiaks offense.  I haven't seen Flacco sell a fake that's even half believable

People immediately say "Texans had a top 5 offense 3 out of the last 5 years.... but don't look at everything else.

I guess the positive is... they got this done relatively early.  And the offense can't really go anywhere but up, right?

 

If Leach is a part of the plan to help them win then they will and should keep him. As for the OL, everyone wondered why loosing Birk made all others suddenly below average. Birk was a good Center but him leaving was not the entire reason the OL became so bad. They were also bad before Osemele left on injury. The problem had much to do with the coaching change there. I expect changes in personnel but not as much as some  think.

 

After the FO did an evaluation of the season, having a strong run game is what they feel is the best way for Joe and the team to win and I agree. Looking at the final four playoff teams, all have a good QB, Running game, and Passing game, along with a good defense. 

 

The goal is to build a solid team that includes an offense that can attack in a variety of ways. Run first, doesn't mean the team will always run on first down or two out of three times. They still need top production from the WRs and TEs and I think the goal is to see production from them too.

 

FInally, looking at Kubiak and the supporting coaches brought over from Houston I understand the FO's evaluation in choosing Kubiak over the other candidates. They looked at the total package.

[HoldingCall]

Yea don't forget about Doss in the return game. He isn't as dynamic as Coby but he's definitely good enough to be the guy. I completely agree with his usage in this offense. There is a really good article in the Sun about Kubiak's offense and I think it'll answer a lot of questions people have.

This offense deals with so much misdirection and run action that guys like Doss will live in space. The talent on this offense will finally be used and I can't wait. Doss, Mellette, Furstenburg, Juice, even Marlon Bown and Torrey will be used better. Rice and Pierce will have so much more success imo, simply because they won't just be last resorts in the pass game but their be featured with screens, flares, option routes, wheel routes and much more.

I'm like a kid on Christmas right now. For years I've been wishing ill will on the Texans so they would fire Kubiak and we hire him. Now we have that offense and it's time to roll. Plus I think this offense will be much better then what he had in Houston, because we have much better talent, mainly at the QB. This offense made Schuab look better but it'll allow Flacco to soar imo.

 

I Second, that emotion!

[frozen joe flacco fan]

bobby rainey is sorry and he had 2 decent games with tampa and he averaged like 40 ypg aside from those 2. also he definitely isnt a "big back" type of player youre looking for, hes a ray rice clone(the ray rice of 2013) 

 

i dont understand how ravens fans see him on the fantasy scoreboard a few times and start calling for peoples heads because we cut him. i wouldve rather kept anthony allen because at least when he saw the field on special teams he made a difference

 

That's why you get paid the big bucks. You're the expert! Let's see. How many big games did Ray Rice or Bernard Pierce have last year. In the two games you cited, Bobby Rainey's production exceeded Ray's and Bernard's together. But you are right. I'm  looking for a back like Marshon Lynch. I don't care if he doesn't like to talk to media as long as he runs over, under, around and through the defense, especially down near the goal line. It would also be nice if he could throw a block now and then to keep his QB clean. So, I'll take being really sick in two games over sorry for an entire season, which is what our backs were.

[The Raven]

That's why you get paid the big bucks. You're the expert! Let's see. How many big games did Ray Rice or Bernard Pierce have last year. In the two games you cited, Bobby Rainey's production exceeded Ray's and Bernard's together. But you are right. I'm  looking for a back like Marshon Lynch. I don't care if he doesn't like to talk to media as long as he runs over, under, around and through the defense, especially down near the goal line. It would also be nice if he could throw a block now and then to keep his QB clean. So, I'll take being really sick in two games over sorry for an entire season, which is what our backs were.

 

I think you're really completely missing how bad Rainey would have been behind our line. Completely missing it. 

 

Rainey looked good because he can make people miss. His line has to open up a hole, and then he can make big plays in space. Pierce and Rice have both demonstrated that ability when given a hole. 

[Tank 92]

Yea Doss really made an impact last year when we allowed him to work in space. Shallow crosses, pick routes, rubs, bunches and others. He was really putting up quality numbers and over a 4-5 game stretch really showed he could be a solid player, nothing special but solid. He's a Kevin Walter type, nothing really special but the system will get him open and plenty of chances, if he's able to get on the field of course.

 

 

To be frank, I doubt that Doss will be on the 2014 squad. He was brought back as a cheap band aid after being cut and before being recalled was sitting home watching TV as there was no interest from others.

 

I was a huge Tandon Doss supporter in the past and he did do a few good things early on in the season. But it's become apparent that he just doesn't have a good football IQ and has a propensity for boneheaded mistakes(ala David Reed). 

[Tank 92]

I would hope that we will be a "run the play they ain't lookin' for" team.  

[Ravensfan23]

To be frank, I doubt that Doss will be on the 2014 squad. He was brought back after being cut as a cheap band aid and before being recalled was sitting home watching TV as there was no interest from others.

 

I was a huge Tandon Doss supporter in the past and he did do a few good things early on in the season. But it's become apparent that he just doesn't have a good football IQ and has a propensity for boneheaded mistakes(ala David Reed).

Exactly what happened to prove he didn't have a high football IQ. Did I miss something? Yes he was brought back for cheap, but he produced enough to be invited back to camp imo. Jacoby is a FA and if he gets a fair offer else where he's gone. Who do you have left? Marlon and Torrey are your locks. As much as everyone loves Thompson he did less then Doss and Mellette as much as I like him he's the less proven of all our WRs.

He's a RFA and as you said there wasn't much interest last year, so what do you lose by bringing him back and letting him compete in a offense where the first thing the new OC said about the personnel is he'll use everyone to their talents. We fans are much more willing to give up on players then the actual team is.

[Tank 92]

Exactly what happened to prove he didn't have a high football IQ. Did I miss something? Yes he was brought back for cheap, but he produced enough to be invited back to camp imo. Jacoby is a FA and if he gets a fair offer else where he's gone. Who do you have left? Marlon and Torrey are your locks. As much as everyone loves Thompson he did less then Doss and Mellette as much as I like him he's the less proven of all our WRs.

He's a RFA and as you said there wasn't much interest last year, so what do you lose by bringing him back and letting him compete in a offense where the first thing the new OC said about the personnel is he'll use everyone to their talents. We fans are much more willing to give up on players then the actual team is.

 

 

Well, there's a number of mistakes he had made in his first two seasons , but if you recall the last game he saw duty as a returner this year he let two punts fall and roll where he should have called for the fair catch. I think I'm correct in saying he wasn't used back there again for the rest of the season. Like I said, I had high hopes as it seems he has some tools, but my guess is that he is missing the instincts.

 

Maybe I'm wrong, but he was cut last year for a reason and probably will be cut again this year.    

[K-Dog]

I would hope that we will be a "run the play they ain't lookin' for" team.

Sneaky ....

[Tank 92]

Sneaky ....

 

 

.......and UN freekin' PRE DICTABLE for gosh sakes!

[frozen joe flacco fan]

I think you're really completely missing how bad Rainey would have been behind our line. Completely missing it. 

 

Rainey looked good because he can make people miss. His line has to open up a hole, and then he can make big plays in space. Pierce and Rice have both demonstrated that ability when given a hole. 

 

I may be missing it on how well Rainey would have fared behind this year's line and I agree that he is able to make people miss, which BTW is the biggest complaint about Ray Rice, i.e., his inability to make the first tackler miss. I disagree on how much responsibility the line has for opening holes. There are always holes or gaps along the line of scrimmage and great backs run to daylight. I don't know how old you are but you apparently never saw the Packers' Jim Taylor who would go out of his way to hit someone even if the field was totally clear to either side of his tackler. Jim Brown and Taylor created their own holes. Besides the Ravens really haven't had a great track record for retaining great runners like Holmes, Taylor, McClain, McGee and Williams. I still have high hopes for Juscyk. On a positive note, I expect our track record will improve under Kubiak and Dennison.   

[The Raven]

I may be missing it on how well Rainey would have fared behind this year's line and I agree that he is able to make people miss, which BTW is the biggest complaint about Ray Rice, i.e., his inability to make the first tackler miss. I disagree on how much responsibility the line has for opening holes. There are always holes or gaps along the line of scrimmage and great backs run to daylight. I don't know how old you are but you apparently never saw the Packers' Jim Taylor who would go out of his way to hit someone even if the field was totally clear to either side of his tackler. Jim Brown and Taylor created their own holes. Besides the Ravens really haven't had a great track record for retaining great runners like Holmes, Taylor, McClain, McGee and Williams. I still have high hopes for Juscyk. On a positive note, I expect our track record will improve under Kubiak and Dennison.   

 

1. Sorry, there were no holes to be found this season. It's not easy to make your own holes anymore. It's completely on the line to create "daylight." Go tell Vince Lombardi that it's not completely up to the line to open a hole and see what he says. Well, what do you think he would have said? Moreover, it's not easy to just cut back to a random hole on the other side. If it's an outside hand off to the right side, do you expect him to cut it back all the way left in the hopes that there might be a hole when he gets there? Not exactly how it works all the time. Sometimes you'll break big plays like that, but most of the time, you just get hit for a loss. There's a very good reason that must good running backs (AP, Lynch, etc) just stick to the hole and the primary cut backs lanes. That's just how it works. It's on the line to open holes. Otherwise, it wouldn't be there. Otherwise, Rice and Pierce might have had a better season. Otherwise, the Broncos wouldn't have had so much success with no name backs in the 90s and early 2000s. That's the whole reason the line blocks, isn't it? To open holes?

 

2: Leron McClain was not a great runner. Sure he was big but he's not even close to great, and he's an average fullback at best.

 

3: I don't think Juice will be getting very many carries.

[hawkprey]

Almost every team runs the ball on most 1st downs. The ones that dont have a lot of short passes to substitute. I hope we dont waste too much time with that. Zone block, play action, and push the ball downfield.