Week 15 - Pittsburgh Steelers At Baltimore Ravens

[svt2nv04]

[quote name='SuggsNotDrugs' post='105369' date='Dec 14 2008, 08:24 PM']You seem to be forgetting this would be a Baltimore win if not for some blown calls. You wouldn't be trashing Flacco had that not happened.[/quote]

First of all, no, we would have won if we made more plays on offense. Second, I'm not 'trashing' Flacco.

[SuggsNotDrugs]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' post='105392' date='Dec 14 2008, 08:30 PM']For all intents and purposes, if anything, this only furthers the rivalry. And y'know what? Call me crazy, but if anything, this makes me want to see the Ravens face the Steelers in the playoffs.[/quote]

That's what I'm talking about! I'd love to see these guys in the playoffs, even if it is on their turf, even if we do lose. It takes a lot for a team, or a player to get knocked down, but keep getting back up, taking those licks, getting stronger, and take what happens there into next season. Even if we lost that's valuable experience against our biggest rival. Three games in one season for Flacco against the Steelers means he's going to have even more experience going into next season.

[Ravnet]

[quote name='SuggsNotDrugs' post='105403' date='Dec 14 2008, 08:32 PM']So what is going to help you become a better team/player: finishing the regular season and sitting at home, or contending in the playoffs and fighting for that slight chance? You can't understand the value that a playoff game can serve. I don't know because I'm not a professional athlete, but considering how much just the chance means to me as a fan, i believe it means a lot more to the pros. That's emotion, it's good experience, of seeing these playoff worthy teams, of just plain being there.[/quote]

You don't understand what I'm saying. I'm all for Flacco going to the playoffs in order to gain experience, I just don't think he's going to get anywhere.

You need to be a fairly complete team to win in the post season.

[neepo13]

[quote name='Ravnet' post='105404' date='Dec 14 2008, 08:33 PM']That's funny, because Flacco looks a lot better on paper than he does in real life.

The guy hasn't shown up against a single quality team, and that is incontrivertible. I understand that it's any given Sunday in the playoffs, but the odds are stacked against a guy that, you know, can't play against good teams.[/quote]

Well, thats true if your only interested in "pretty" games. I dont care if its pretty as long as we win. We have a defense and a running game that can win now. Flacco would just be icing on the cake.

[SuggsNotDrugs]

[quote name='Ravnet' post='105416' date='Dec 14 2008, 08:34 PM']I'm pretty sure you joined this board the day we drafted Flacco, and you're calling me fair weather

I'm a season ticket holder for the Orioles for God's sake, please don't tell me I'm packing it in.[/quote]


I'm pretty sure no one is a fair weather Ravens fan. I highly doubt anyone went, "hey flacco is there I need to be there to! This is the next Patriots!"

As an O's fan wouldn't you be happy just to see them make the playoffs even if they have no chance of winning it all? Come on, this is what being a Baltimore fan is all about. You have to appreciate what you're given, and not just expect more to happen in the future.

[Ravnet]

[quote name='svt2nv04' post='105419' date='Dec 14 2008, 08:35 PM']First of all, no, we would have won if we made more plays on offense. Second, I'm not 'trashing' Flacco.[/quote]

Exactly...

A legitimate contender does not need to rely on the referees to win the game. We never would have been in that position if Joe and the offense had punched in the two gifts that they had wrapped for them.

[SuggsNotDrugs]

[quote name='Ravnet' post='105425' date='Dec 14 2008, 08:35 PM']You don't understand what I'm saying. I'm all for Flacco going to the playoffs in order to gain experience, I just don't think he's going to get anywhere.

You need to be a fairly complete team to win in the post season.[/quote]


If you're all for Flacco going to the playoffs, why are you saying that we shouldn't even bother, and that it's not significant? If you're all for it, and understand the importance of it, why take that attitude? You're contradicting yourself

[Ravnet]

[quote name='SuggsNotDrugs' post='105432' date='Dec 14 2008, 08:37 PM']I'm pretty sure no one is a fair weather Ravens fan. I highly doubt anyone went, "hey flacco is there I need to be there to! This is the next Patriots!"

As an O's fan wouldn't you be happy just to see them make the playoffs even if they have no chance of winning it all? Come on, this is what being a Baltimore fan is all about. You have to appreciate what you're given, and not just expect more to happen in the future.[/quote]

The Orioles are not comparable. I'd be happy for the O's to make the playoffs just because they haven't been competitive in eleven years. On the other hand, I'm just a lot more frustrated when the Ravens drop first round games.

[flynismo]

[quote name='FerrariFan87' post='105163' date='Dec 14 2008, 07:43 PM']I totally blame Cam Cameron and the rest of the offensive coaches who came up with this pathetic gameplan... McClain gets nearly 100 yards and we don't run it on that 3rd down play that knocked us out of FG range late in the game?[/quote]

I can see why he called a pass, it was third and eight (or something like that), but from the get go, I didn't like the playcalling at all. We needed to be more aggressive the first half.

[Ravnet]

[quote name='SuggsNotDrugs' post='105441' date='Dec 14 2008, 08:39 PM']If you're all for Flacco going to the playoffs, why are you saying that we shouldn't even bother, and that it's not significant? If you're all for it, and understand the importance of it, why take that attitude? You're contradicting yourself[/quote]

Please cite exactly where I said that I hoped we didn't go to the playoffs.

[svt2nv04]

[quote name='SuggsNotDrugs' post='105441' date='Dec 14 2008, 08:39 PM']If you're all for Flacco going to the playoffs, why are you saying that we shouldn't even bother, and that it's not significant? If you're all for it, and understand the importance of it, why take that attitude? You're contradicting yourself[/quote]

Neither me nor Ravnet is saying that at all.

[flynismo]

[quote name='SuggsNotDrugs' post='105388' date='Dec 14 2008, 08:29 PM']Yeah this is my first "hour" of posting because of how upset I was by the game tonite. Only to come here and find you saying "flacco isn't good enough for the super bowl, therefor he shouldn't even be in the playoffs." those aren't your exact words, but I don't seem to be the only one taking offense at your insinuations. You want to kick me off the board, kick me off, but the fact remains I want the ravens to go as far as they can, to do the best they can, and the idea that playoffs without a super bowl isn't worth anything, is garbage. It's insulting to Flacco as a rookie, it diminishes his achievements, and its insulting to me as a fan, who bleeds black and purple, because I'd take a playoff berth any day over a typical 16 game season.[/quote]


See, this is the attitude I wish everyone could have.

[SuggsNotDrugs]

I signed up after the game tonight because I felt like I needed some reassurance about our team. I basically needed a hug lol But to come on and see someone just saying forget about it, it's no big deal, they would've lost in the playoffs anyway so forget about this season; it surprised me.

I hate the off season. Ravens game are what I live for. I just have a hard time understanding where you're coming from because we don't seem to share the same mentality. You're very logical about it all, yes he'll only get better throughout the years, and yes we have playoff berths in the future to look forward to. But I'm not there yet, I'm still in the 2008 season, and I'm upset about tonight's game. Nothing is guaranteed, nothing. You don't know what could happen. What players will go through in the off season, what moves will be made in the league or division. What if Flacco hits a sophomore slump? Maybe he won't, I hope he won't, but the uncertainty makes me want the most out of what's here right now. We're still in this season. We still have a chance, and I simply cannot throw the towel in. Because doing so would make me feel terrible, and therefor the towel a terrible towel! I hate terrible towels!!! (bad joke sorry)

[Lets_Go_Joe]

[quote name='Ravnet' post='105416' date='Dec 14 2008, 08:34 PM']I'm pretty sure you joined this board the day we drafted Flacco, and you're calling me fair weather

I'm a season ticket holder for the Orioles for God's sake, please don't tell me I'm packing it in.[/quote]
So I'm fairweather because I decided to make a name with our first round pick in it, sorry I couldnt join earlier, didnt no who we'd pick.

BTW didnt know we had a board to post on, didnt know that meant I was fairweather, thanks for letting me know.

I'm saying if your giving up on this season because "we can't win in the playoffs" makes no sence. You dont know we can't win. Nothing proves that any team can win more then the Texans beating the Titans, or even the Jets beating the Titans a few weeks off a loss to Oakland for God's sake. We are just as dangerous as any team in the playoffs, everyone has a shot. To say we're not ready, and declare it time for next year in my opinion is crap.

If im fairweather because of when I joined the boards, excuse me for that. But I backed this team when they went 6-10 and last year when they went 5-11, I'm not a guy who gives up on his team after a few bad losses. Truth is this team is still in the playoff hunt and should be focused on this season, not next.

[SuggsNotDrugs]

[quote name='svt2nv04' post='105462' date='Dec 14 2008, 08:44 PM']Neither me nor Ravnet is saying that at all.[/quote]


I haven't quoted you once. I'm not taking issue with what you have said. Ravnet on the other hand has said some pretty direct things about Flacco and about the team this season. Yes he flatters us in the future tense, but I'm upset about the here and now. All you've done is state mild forms of agreement. I'm not quoting you, I'm not mad at you, stop making it seem like I'm twisting your words.

[flynismo]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' post='105392' date='Dec 14 2008, 08:30 PM']Y'know, in the midst of all this debating and bickering and whatnot, I've noticed something:

The Steelers did not beat the Ravens in CONCLUSIVE fashion today.

Can't we take solace in that? I know a win's a win, a loss is a loss, blah blah blah. But, the Steelers proved nothing today except that they are a tough, physical team and played just as we expected.

The Steelers have caught a lot of different breaks this season, and yet, today, they clinched the division in a manner that was neither convincing nor truly without controversy.

For all intents and purposes, if anything, this only furthers the rivalry. And y'know what? Call me crazy, but if anything, this makes me want to see the Ravens face the Steelers in the playoffs.[/quote]

Exactly, just like their other win over us this year, they needed what at best could be described as questionable officiating. We lost the battle, but the war isn't over yet. At the least, we proved we are as good as them, considering that we held the lead all the way to the last drive.

[Ravnet]

[quote name='Lets_Go_Joe' post='105470' date='Dec 14 2008, 08:46 PM']So I'm fairweather because I decided to make a name with our first round pick in it, sorry I couldnt join earlier, didnt no who we'd pick.

BTW didnt know we had a board to post on, didnt know that meant I was fairweather, thanks for letting me know.

I'm saying if your giving up on this season because "we can't win in the playoffs" makes no sence. You dont know we can't win. Nothing proves that any team can win more then the Texans beating the Titans, or even the Jets beating the Titans a few weeks off a loss to Oakland for God's sake. We are just as dangerous as any team in the playoffs, everyone has a shot. To say we're not ready, and declare it time for next year in my opinion is crap.

If im fairweather because of when I joined the boards, excuse me for that. But I backed this team when they went 6-10 and last year when they went 5-11, I'm not a guy who gives up on his team after a few bad losses. Truth is this team is still in the playoff hunt and should be focused on this season, not next.[/quote]

You completely missed my point. You were insinuating that I am not a good fan because I was "packing it in" and giving up on the team. In order to highlight that flawed logic, I sarcastically pointed out that you joined the day Flacco was drafted, which AUTOMATICALLY makes you not a true fan.

[SuggsNotDrugs]

Lets Go Joe has it exactly right. It is any given Sunday. Sure the odds are against us, but look at the wins and losses he talked about. The Lions almost beat the Colts today. The Bucs have fallen apart as the season goes down. We could have won tonight against one of the best teams in the league! Those signs all point to the fact that if we get some things right, if we make certain adjustments, and if we go out there and play Ravens football, we have a chance, and a chance is all you can ask for. I hate the Colts, and I want to see them again. I want to see the Steelers, and I want to see the Titans. If we lose, we lose; but if we stand up and punch someone in the mouth with a rookie QB in the playoffs, people will take notice, and we can inject some fear into the rest of the league

[Ravnet]

[quote name='SuggsNotDrugs' post='105473' date='Dec 14 2008, 08:47 PM']I haven't quoted you once. I'm not taking issue with what you have said. Ravnet on the other hand has said some pretty direct things about Flacco and about the team this season. Yes he flatters us in the future tense, but I'm upset about the here and now. All you've done is state mild forms of agreement. I'm not quoting you, I'm not mad at you, stop making it seem like I'm twisting your words.[/quote]

The irony is fantastic!

[quote]why are you saying that we shouldn't even bother, and that it's not significant?[/quote]

You "directly" pointed out that I made this claim, I called you out on it, and you apparently couldn't find where I stated that. I think it's you, my friend, who is twisting [b]my[/b] words.

[Lets_Go_Joe]

[quote name='Ravnet' post='105488' date='Dec 14 2008, 08:51 PM']You completely missed my point. You were insinuating that I am not a good fan because I was "packing it in" and giving up on the team. In order to highlight that flawed logic, I sarcastically pointed out that you joined the day Flacco was drafted, which AUTOMATICALLY makes you not a true fan.[/quote]
Packing it in does make you a bandwagoner in many peoples eyes, especially mine. Our team still controls our fate as far vas the wild card goes, and to say "it doesnt matter if we make it because we cant win in the playoffs" for me anyway means packing it in..

[SuggsNotDrugs]

[quote name='Ravnet' post='105493' date='Dec 14 2008, 08:53 PM']The irony is fantastic!



You "directly" pointed out that I made this claim, I called you out on it, and you apparently couldn't find where I stated that. I think it's you, my friend, who is twisting [b]my[/b] words.[/quote]


I'm not going back through all the pages and posts to try and get your wording down to the "t" so that you can feel like I'm not "twisting" your words. You were saying that it's not significant to make the playoffs because we won't win the super bowl. You also trashed on Flacco for under performing. I'm not the only one who has been jawing with you over what you have said. Sure I don't have your exact words here, but if you didn't say Flacco and the team have been playing too poorly to deserve a playoff berth, then I wouldnt have started on you in the first place. Lets Go Joe is talking to you, and I'm sorry but it's hard to pick up sarcasm on a message board. Text cannot convey sarcasm, thats what italics are for. Secondly, you did say something along the lines of what I'm having issues with. I'm not going to take the time to get your words perfect, because it isn't worth it, YOU aren't worth it. I'm stating my passion and support for the team, if you've got a problem with that, I'll debate that with you, but if you're offended I don't care enough about your exact words, kick rocks

[Ravnet]

[quote name='SuggsNotDrugs' post='105512' date='Dec 14 2008, 09:00 PM']I'm not going back through all the pages and posts to try and get your wording down to the "t" so that you can feel like I'm not "twisting" your words. You were saying that it's not significant to make the playoffs because we won't win the super bowl. You also trashed on Flacco for under performing. I'm not the only one who has been jawing with you over what you have said. Sure I don't have your exact words here, but if you didn't say Flacco and the team have been playing too poorly to deserve a playoff berth, then I wouldnt have started on you in the first place. Lets Go Joe is talking to you, and I'm sorry but it's hard to pick up sarcasm on a message board. Text cannot convey sarcasm, thats what italics are for. Secondly, you did say something along the lines of what I'm having issues with. I'm not going to take the time to get your words perfect, because it isn't worth it, YOU aren't worth it. I'm stating my passion and support for the team, if you've got a problem with that, I'll debate that with you, but if you're offended I don't care enough about your exact words, kick rocks[/quote]

Nope, that's not what I was alluding to. I was trying to say that losing this game was not of monumental importance seeding does not matter. We're not good enough to win anyways, so positioning isn't important.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Ravnet' post='105318' date='Dec 14 2008, 08:13 PM']It's awfully hard to win a Super Bowl when you play not to lose. Please don't cite the 2000 Ravens, because we're not that team.[/quote]


I agree with you on that. Heading into the game, I felt that to beat Pittsburgh, we had to do it through the air. Looking back on the game, I'm convinced that's what we needed to do. I hate to say this, because I think the world of Flacco and there is no doubt in my mind that he will one day be an elite QB, but today he reminded us that he is still a rookie.

[SuggsNotDrugs]

i'm done with the back and forths with Ravnet, I came here to talk about the Ravens.

Is anyone else just flat out disgusted by Hines Ward? He didn't do anything controversial this time, but man it kills me to see him getting open for big plays, especially late in the game. He's a dagger to us, and I don't understand why we aren't on top of him for all 60 minutes.

Also is anyone concerned about the team's future? Suggs, Ray, and Scott are all up for free-agency. I fully expect us to sign Lewis and Suggs back, but am unsure about Scotts future with us. Also Mason won't be around forever, and outside of Clayton, I don't know that we'll have any kind of top tier receivers. Heap is declining in productivity, and most of the other guys can't stay healthy. Hopefully this year's draft will offer us some new options

[FerrariFan87]

[quote name='Ravnet' post='105361' date='Dec 14 2008, 08:22 PM']I think you guys don't understand where I'm coming from. This franchise has won the Super Bowl, and has also made numerous first round exits. I would not be content with just hanging on due to calls by the referees, our defense bailing us out, and Flacco underperforming. If we're not good enough to make a legitimate run, then what is the point?

Flacco has shown that he cannot win games against good defenses, and as a result, I'm not upset about today as I realize that this season is probably a lost cause anyways. That being said, I'm also not mad right now because I know that he has the potential to win games in the years to come. I get that if you're in the playoffs you have a chance, but I'd feel a lot better if we had the ability to control our own fate.[/quote]

If we do end up making it to Tampa, or just making some kind of run in the playoffs, you will have no right to celebrate our accomplishments and I will gladly watch you eat your own words...

[flynismo]

[quote name='Lets_Go_Joe' post='105507' date='Dec 14 2008, 08:58 PM']Packing it in does make you a bandwagoner in many peoples eyes, especially mine.[/quote]

That's the definition of a bandwagon fan, one who is there supporting the team when they're winning, then at the first sign of adversity they trash the team.

I know we're all upset, I know I am. But hey, I see it like this...we were bound to have an off game, so better to get that out of the way now rather than in the playoffs.

[Lets_Go_Joe]

[quote name='FerrariFan87' post='105540' date='Dec 14 2008, 09:08 PM']If we do end up making it to Tampa, or just making some kind of run in the playoffs, you will have no right to celebrate our accomplishments and I will gladly watch you eat your own words...[/quote]
amen

[FerrariFan87]

[quote name='Ravnet' post='105390' date='Dec 14 2008, 08:29 PM']I'm pretty sure most teams in the playoffs have pretty good quarterbacks. If we "have trouble" with elite QB's, then how are we going to handle four of them?



I mean that is just flat out wrong. Furthermore, with McGahee, Boller and CMac being unloaded, we'll probably have enough money to keep Suggs/Scott/Lewis and still bring in a new WR/CB through draft and free agency.[/quote]

We can't "unload" Willis unless we want to eat $11M in cap room next season

[SuggsNotDrugs]

I don't know many people who would consider themselves a true fan of an organization, that would sit there and take it in the face of a controversial loss. Throwing your hands up and saying "oh shucks, theres always next year" is not passion. Tonight's loss lies with the referees. Sure Flacco didn't light up the core board, but neither did Big Ben. The Ravens didn't flat out dominate, but neither did the Steelers! The upsetting thing about tonight is that the Ravens did not deserve to lose, and the Steelers did not deserve to win. I'm outraged, I was so angry I strongly considered punching out Steelers fans I saw walking down the street as I drove home. (this is Maryland, go back to PA) I never once thought "oh shucks, there's always next season."

[SuggsNotDrugs]

I know Housh will be a FA this year, but I doubt we can afford him. Washington has played well and deserves a starting role. Alternating Ivy/Walker/Rolle is ok, but are there any FA CBs at the end of this season? And if so do we have a chance of getting any of them? I know the team very well, but I don't know enough about the finances.