Week 15 - Pittsburgh Steelers At Baltimore Ravens

[MKdave]

[quote name='Ravnet' post='105309' date='Dec 15 2008, 01:11 AM']I mean of course they matter, but the point is that Flacco clearly isn't good enough for the playoffs, so it's trivial to argue over calls made today when, in the long run, we're not good enough.[/quote]

I don't think that's fair to say. The Steelers are one of the best teams in the NFL, and we stood toe-to-toe with them for 60 minutes. And prior to 'the call' we were beating them.

[Ravnet]

[quote name='SuggsNotDrugs' post='105305' date='Dec 14 2008, 08:10 PM']Everyone forgets he's a rookie apparently. He was playing to not lose the game. He wasn't trying to be flashy, he wasn't trying to risk turnovers. The way he was playing should have won us the game. Sims said it himself "sometimes you have to win ugly, and Flacco is learning how to win ugly."

You take the mentality that you always have to be making the plays, and always going for maximum points and you become a Kyle Boller, gun slinging turn over machine. Flacco didn't lose the game, and THAT is what he was there for. He wasn't going to win it for us, but he made sure he didn't lose it either. Give the guy a break, he's gotten us this far, he can't do anything about what the refs did to us[/quote]

It's awfully hard to win a Super Bowl when you play not to lose. Please don't cite the 2000 Ravens, because we're not that team.

[neepo13]

[quote name='Ravnet' post='105309' date='Dec 14 2008, 08:11 PM']I mean of course they matter, but the point is that Flacco clearly isn't good enough for the playoffs, so it's trivial to argue over calls made today when, in the long run, we're not good enough.[/quote]

B.S. You can only worry about whats happening now. The future is irrelevant if the job doesnt get done right, now.

[SuggsNotDrugs]

[quote name='Ravnet' post='105309' date='Dec 14 2008, 08:11 PM']I mean of course they matter, but the point is that Flacco clearly isn't good enough for the playoffs, so it's trivial to argue over calls made today when, in the long run, we're not good enough.[/quote]

No one is expecting him to win a super bowl. But to say that because we can't win the super bowl, we shouldn't care about the playoffs? That's precious experience for a rookie. Are you kidding me? The kind of ego boost that would give that he lead us to the playoffs his rookie season? The experiences he would gain from having "been there" is crucial for development. Why play any season if you just think you can't win the super bowl? What's the point of anything then? Way to get behind your team

[H8R]

[quote name='Ravnet' post='105309' date='Dec 14 2008, 08:11 PM']I mean of course they matter, but the point is that Flacco clearly isn't good enough for the playoffs, so it's trivial to argue over calls made today when, in the long run, we're not good enough.[/quote]


Are you wearing Black and Gold undies? Please man, just let us play the rest of the game s to prove if we're good enough or not. Your posts are very sacrelgious

[Ravnet]

[quote name='MKdave' post='105317' date='Dec 14 2008, 08:13 PM']I don't think that's fair to say. The Steelers are one of the best teams in the NFL, and we stood toe-to-toe with them for 60 minutes. And prior to 'the call' we were beating them.[/quote]

Every team in the playoffs is good, you can't use that justification for Joe. Believe me, I'm his biggest fan, but he is a year away.

[MKdave]

[quote name='Ravnet' post='105327' date='Dec 15 2008, 01:15 AM']Every team in the playoffs is good, you can't use that justification for Joe. Believe me, I'm his biggest fan, but he is a year away.[/quote]

But in the post I responded to, you said [b]we[/b] are not good enough, not Joe.

EDIT: you actually said both.

[Lets_Go_Joe]

[quote name='Ravnet' post='105309' date='Dec 14 2008, 08:11 PM']I mean of course they matter, but the point is that Flacco clearly isn't good enough for the playoffs, so it's trivial to argue over calls made today when, in the long run, we're not good enough.[/quote]
Didn't know you were a good scout and can tell us who can win games.

The point is, whether or not he can or can't win in the playoffs, we were in posistion to win this game, and calls were the difference. If were sitting at 10-4 we chalk it up to a bad game because of facing the #1D but now because we lost everyones bashing Flacco. I understand he didnt play well, but he didnt have much help, almost every reciever dropped one or more passes.

They are the #1 D so how do you expect him to tear through them? Hes still a rookie and is learning faster then anyone could have imagined. Fact is we can win with him, and we can win now.... the difference today came down to a call whether people want to say it or not.

Joe will keep improving, but just because he throws 2 picks against the top rated Defense doesn't mean he cant win a playoff game

[neepo13]

[quote name='Ravnet' post='105318' date='Dec 14 2008, 08:13 PM']It's awfully hard to win a Super Bowl when you play not to lose. Please don't cite the 2000 Ravens, because we're not that team.[/quote]

Thats very true but that doesnt excuse the refs doing such a poor job at the end of this game. So, what the offense isnt lighting the score board up. If the defense earns a stop they shouldnt have it taken away from them by the refs. You can not sit here and say that he was clearly in on that final play.

[SuggsNotDrugs]

[quote name='Ravnet' post='105318' date='Dec 14 2008, 08:13 PM']It's awfully hard to win a Super Bowl when you play not to lose. Please don't cite the 2000 Ravens, because we're not that team.[/quote]

So you're Super Bowl or bust? If that's the case go root for the Patriots and pull for the Red Sox or Yankees in MLB. It's about the experience, and the opportunities. As a fan I'd be excited if we made it, regardless of if I think we can win it all or not. All of that goes towards the development of Flacco, and making the playoffs as a rookie is a good boost. Also he's won games for us this season, should it be up to him to win it every week? He's a rookie, he can't be expected to do everything. Boller lost games for us, McNair at times would lose games for us. Flacco is smart. He's not some hot shot, YET, but he isn't losing the game, and to expect much more from a rookie is ridiculous.

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='Ravnet' post='105327' date='Dec 14 2008, 08:15 PM']Every team in the playoffs is good, you can't use that justification for Joe. [b] Believe me, I'm his biggest fan[/b], but he is a year away.[/quote]

*ahem*

[i]*points to Flacco UD jersey in closet*[/i] Thank you very much.

[neepo13]

[quote name='Ravnet' post='105327' date='Dec 14 2008, 08:15 PM'][b]Every team in the playoffs is good[/b], you can't use that justification for Joe. Believe me, I'm his biggest fan, but he is a year away.[/quote]

More B.S., your really spewing it today. So, your saying to me that because Denver and Arizona will make the playoffs that they are good teams? Defense win championships. Neither of them can win a defensive struggle.

[Lets_Go_Joe]

[quote name='Ravnet' post='105327' date='Dec 14 2008, 08:15 PM']Every team in the playoffs is good, you can't use that justification for Joe. Believe me, I'm his biggest fan, but he is a year away.[/quote]
If your his biggest fan I'd hate to see his worst enemy

[svt2nv04]

I agree with Ravnet here. Even if the call wasn't made a touchdown, our defense allowed the Steelers to get that close to the endzone and our offense didn't take advantage of excellent field position earlier in the game. Flacco didn't have the best game. A couple throws were thrown in coverage that shouldn't have been thrown in and I personally didn't agree with the conservative play calling.

Flacco was 11/28 with 115 yards, no TDs and 2 INTs. That's just plain terrible.

[Lets_Go_Joe]

[quote name='svt2nv04' post='105347' date='Dec 14 2008, 08:19 PM']I agree with Ravnet here. We're just not ready. Even if the call wasn't made a touchdown, our defense allowed the Steelers to get that close to the endzone and our offense didn't take advantage of excellent field position earlier in the game. Flacco didn't have the best game. A couple throws were thrown in coverage that shouldn't have been thrown in and I personally didn't agree with the conservative play calling.

Flacco was 11/28 with 115 yards, no TDs and 2 INTs. That's just plain terrible. As Ravnet has said, next year.[/quote]
Go ahead, pack it in with Ravnet, us other fans will be here cheering, hoping we make the playoffs, not totally dismissing the year at hand, and our chance to win this year.

I understand we aren't super bowl picks this year, but you can only win it if your in it. You think Arizona and Denver have a shot??? most people don't, but I'll bet you those players are gonna try their a**es off in order to try. If we get in, anythings possible.

I can't believe people want to concede this year after one bad game

[Ravnet]

I think you guys don't understand where I'm coming from. This franchise has won the Super Bowl, and has also made numerous first round exits. I would not be content with just hanging on due to calls by the referees, our defense bailing us out, and Flacco underperforming. If we're not good enough to make a legitimate run, then what is the point?

Flacco has shown that he cannot win games against good defenses, and as a result, I'm not upset about today as I realize that this season is probably a lost cause anyways. That being said, I'm also not mad right now because I know that he has the potential to win games in the years to come. I get that if you're in the playoffs you have a chance, but I'd feel a lot better if we had the ability to control our own fate.

[Lets_Go_Joe]

[quote name='Ravnet' post='105361' date='Dec 14 2008, 08:22 PM']I think you guys don't understand where I'm coming from. This franchise has won the Super Bowl, and has also made numerous first round exits. I would not be content with just hanging on due to calls by the referees, our defense bailing us out, and Flacco underperforming. [b]If we're not good enough to make a legitimate run, then what is the point? [/b][/quote]
The point is its more fun watching your team play 17 games then 16, thats my point

Any run is legitimate

[SuggsNotDrugs]

[quote name='svt2nv04' post='105347' date='Dec 14 2008, 08:19 PM']I agree with Ravnet here. We're just not ready. Even if the call wasn't made a touchdown, our defense allowed the Steelers to get that close to the endzone and our offense didn't take advantage of excellent field position earlier in the game. Flacco didn't have the best game. A couple throws were thrown in coverage that shouldn't have been thrown in and I personally didn't agree with the conservative play calling.

Flacco was 11/28 with 115 yards, no TDs and 2 INTs. That's just plain terrible. As Ravnet has said, next year.[/quote]


The final INT came on what basicallly was a force to try and win, when only a TD will do (almost a hail mary). Flacco's INT early in the game didn't lead to points. Flacco is playing conservatively in big games, to avoid making mistakes which will hurt. Just because he isn't ready to win a Super Bowl this year, doesn't mean he shouldn't be in the playoffs gaining valuable experience and confidence. Those things will make him a better QB in the future. This attitude of Super Bowl or nothing is sickening. I don't think Flacco is sitting there deciding to run the ball 80% of the time. I also noticed him making key plays when needed. He didn't win it, but he didn't lost it. This was one of those games where it was going to come down to a TEAM effort, especially on the defensive side of the ball. You seem to be forgetting this would be a Baltimore win if not for some blown calls. You wouldn't be trashing Flacco had that not happened.

[Ravnet]

[quote name='SuggsNotDrugs' post='105335' date='Dec 14 2008, 08:17 PM']So you're Super Bowl or bust? If that's the case go root for the Patriots and pull for the Red Sox or Yankees in MLB. It's about the experience, and the opportunities. As a fan I'd be excited if we made it, regardless of if I think we can win it all or not. All of that goes towards the development of Flacco, and making the playoffs as a rookie is a good boost. Also he's won games for us this season, should it be up to him to win it every week? He's a rookie, he can't be expected to do everything. Boller lost games for us, McNair at times would lose games for us. Flacco is smart. He's not some hot shot, YET, but he isn't losing the game, and to expect much more from a rookie is ridiculous.[/quote]

Hey, welcome to the boards, it's pretty much common courtesy here not to call out people's fanhood. Furthermore, I'd appreciate it if you didn't take my words out of context and make misinformed insinuations! Since this if your first hour ever posting, I'll let you know kindly.

[Bullitt_711]

What are you guys talking about, we're not ready? This Ravens team can win the Super Bowl. That came down to a last drive we played great all game. The Ravens have trouble with elite QB's and Ben is one of those that can make that tough play. He throws the ball like me it looks ugly, but he knows where, how and when to throw it. Great game, tough loss.

I think what some of you are missing is Ray Lewis is likely gone via FA, while we have a guy like Barnes, Gooden that can take his spot, but they lose the best defensive leader in football, that hurts. This is it people IMO, we gotta give it a shot this year. Brighten up people, stay positive!

[Ravnet]

[quote name='Lets_Go_Joe' post='105365' date='Dec 14 2008, 08:23 PM']The point is its more fun watching your team play 17 games then 16, thats my point

Any run is legitimate[/quote]

So the Broncos are a legitimate team? I'm not sure you understand what progression is; you take your lumps and come back next year stronger than ever.

[neepo13]

[quote name='Ravnet' post='105361' date='Dec 14 2008, 08:22 PM']I think you guys don't understand where I'm coming from. This franchise has won the Super Bowl, and has also made numerous first round exits. I would not be content with just hanging on due to calls by the referees, our defense bailing us out, and Flacco underperforming. [b]If we're not good enough to make a legitimate run, then what is the point? [/b]
Flacco has shown that he cannot win games against good defenses, and as a result, I'm not upset about today as I realize that this season is probably a lost cause anyways. That being said, I'm also not mad right now because I know that he has the potential to win games in the years to come. I get that if you're in the playoffs you have a chance, but I'd feel a lot better if we had the ability to control our own fate.[/quote]

So, the NFL plays games on paper and based on what happened last week once they get to the playoffs? Once you get to the playoffs, its any given Sunday. Using your logic, every team that qualifies for the post season shuld concede the games to the top seed.

[SuggsNotDrugs]

[quote name='Ravnet' post='105377' date='Dec 14 2008, 08:26 PM']Hey, welcome to the boards, it's pretty much common courtesy here not to call out people's fanhood. Furthermore, I'd appreciate it if you didn't take my words out of context and make misinformed insinuations! Since this if your first hour ever posting, I'll let you know kindly.[/quote]

Yeah this is my first "hour" of posting because of how upset I was by the game tonite. Only to come here and find you saying "flacco isn't good enough for the super bowl, therefor he shouldn't even be in the playoffs." those aren't your exact words, but I don't seem to be the only one taking offense at your insinuations. You want to kick me off the board, kick me off, but the fact remains I want the ravens to go as far as they can, to do the best they can, and the idea that playoffs without a super bowl isn't worth anything, is garbage. It's insulting to Flacco as a rookie, it diminishes his achievements, and its insulting to me as a fan, who bleeds black and purple, because I'd take a playoff berth any day over a typical 16 game season.

[Ravnet]

[quote name='Bullitt_711' post='105381' date='Dec 14 2008, 08:26 PM']The Ravens have trouble with elite QB's and Ben is one of those that can make that tough play. He throws the ball like me it looks ugly, but he knows where, how and when to throw it.[/quote]

I'm pretty sure most teams in the playoffs have pretty good quarterbacks. If we "have trouble" with elite QB's, then how are we going to handle four of them?

[quote]I think what some of you are missing is Ray Lewis is likely gone via FA[/quote]

I mean that is just flat out wrong. Furthermore, with McGahee, Boller and CMac being unloaded, we'll probably have enough money to keep Suggs/Scott/Lewis and still bring in a new WR/CB through draft and free agency.

[theFRANCHISE]

Y'know, in the midst of all this debating and bickering and whatnot, I've noticed something:

The Steelers did not beat the Ravens in CONCLUSIVE fashion today.

Can't we take solace in that? I know a win's a win, a loss is a loss, blah blah blah. But, the Steelers proved nothing today except that they are a tough, physical team and played just as we expected.

The Steelers have caught a lot of different breaks this season, and yet, today, they clinched the division in a manner that was neither convincing nor truly without controversy.

For all intents and purposes, if anything, this only furthers the rivalry. And y'know what? Call me crazy, but if anything, this makes me want to see the Ravens face the Steelers in the playoffs.

[svt2nv04]

[quote name='Lets_Go_Joe' post='105358' date='Dec 14 2008, 08:22 PM']Go ahead, pack it in with Ravnet, us other fans will be here cheering, hoping we make the playoffs, not totally dismissing the year at hand, and our chance to win this year.

I understand we aren't super bowl picks this year, but you can only win it if your in it. You think Arizona and Denver have a shot??? most people don't, but I'll bet you those players are gonna try their a**es off in order to try. If we get in, anythings possible.

I can't believe people want to concede this year after one bad game[/quote]

I'm not sure I'm being completely understood here. And by the way, I edited my post, deleting a couple things that might have some of you taking me the wrong way.

I'm totally a Ravens fan, I'm just saying we're not one of the best teams in the NFL. I definitely hope we make it in the playoffs, and I think we will make it. If we make it all the way, that'd be awesome, but we're not one of the best teams in the NFL. We have a lot of young guys on our team right now. A rookie QB, rookie HC, and a young OL. Next year, the entire offense will have more experience and hopefully we can play better. On the other hand, I believe Cam's play calling is a little questionable. We've done so much better than I expected with 9 wins already. I'm very proud to be a Ravens fan! Next year, I expect we will 'bring it' when we play great teams.

[SuggsNotDrugs]

[quote name='Ravnet' post='105383' date='Dec 14 2008, 08:27 PM']So the Broncos are a legitimate team? I'm not sure you understand what progression is; you take your lumps and come back next year stronger than ever.[/quote]

So what is going to help you become a better team/player: finishing the regular season and sitting at home, or contending in the playoffs and fighting for that slight chance? You can't understand the value that a playoff game can serve. I don't know because I'm not a professional athlete, but considering how much just the chance means to me as a fan, i believe it means a lot more to the pros. That's emotion, it's good experience, of seeing these playoff worthy teams, of just plain being there.

[Ravnet]

[quote name='neepo13' post='105387' date='Dec 14 2008, 08:29 PM']So, the NFL plays games on paper and based on what happened last week once they get to the playoffs? Once you get to the playoffs, its any given Sunday. Using your logic, every team that qualifies for the post season shuld concede the games to the top seed.[/quote]

That's funny, because Flacco looks a lot better on paper than he does in real life.

The guy hasn't shown up against a single quality team, and that is incontrivertible. I understand that it's any given Sunday in the playoffs, but the odds are stacked against a guy that, you know, can't play against good teams.

[neepo13]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' post='105392' date='Dec 14 2008, 08:30 PM']Y'know, in the midst of all this debating and bickering and whatnot, I've noticed something:

The Steelers did not beat the Ravens in CONCLUSIVE fashion today.

Can't we take solace in that? I know a win's a win, a loss is a loss, blah blah blah. But, the Steelers proved nothing today except that they are a tough, physical team and played just as we expected.

The Steelers have caught a lot of different breaks this season, and yet, today, they clinched the division in a manner that was neither convincing nor truly without controversy.

For all intents and purposes, if anything, this only furthers the rivalry. And y'know what? Call me crazy, but if anything, this makes me want to see the Ravens face the Steelers in the playoffs.[/quote]

Yeah, I dont believe in moral victories.

[Ravnet]

[quote name='Lets_Go_Joe' post='105358' date='Dec 14 2008, 08:22 PM']Go ahead, pack it in with Ravnet, us other fans will be here cheering, hoping we make the playoffs, not totally dismissing the year at hand, and our chance to win this year.

I understand we aren't super bowl picks this year, but you can only win it if your in it. You think Arizona and Denver have a shot??? most people don't, but I'll bet you those players are gonna try their a**es off in order to try. If we get in, anythings possible.

I can't believe people want to concede this year after one bad game[/quote]

I'm pretty sure you joined this board the day we drafted Flacco, and you're calling me fair weather

I'm a season ticket holder for the Orioles for God's sake, please don't tell me I'm packing it in.