Baltimore Sun article: To fix Ravens offense, Joe Flacco must fix himself?

[Militant X 1]

Well that makes no sense to me - contract wise, Matt Ryan averages more than Joe does.  Jay Cutler and Tony Romo make 2 million less per year than Joe.  Stafford and Eli about 3.5 million less.  And ALL of them make more guaranteed money than Joe - even Matt Shaub has more guaranteed money on his deal than Joe.  Jay Cutler is making 6 million more overall and 20 million more guaranteed, and for all the hype about his big arm, he only has 1 4000 yard season which was 5 or 6 years ago now.  So how come Joe is the one people compare to Brady and Manning, while Ryan, who makes more both overall and guaranteed, or any of these other guys, are not?

 

Well, for me; the comparison is there because those 2 cats are the gold standard at the QB position and a mark for Joe Flacco to shoot for....in his own system!

 

 You say it about balance well Flacco doesn't play in a  offense that has consistent balance. You can't expect Flacco to play like the big boys when he constantly playing in  a offense that's really not meant for a quarterback like him to look like one of big boys especially when you have receivers that aren't big (6'3- 6'5") whom can make contested catches as well as make plays going deep(got to be a good route runner  if not big) .

Listen Jazz; if the man is getting paid like the big boys (I have no problem with that) then you're damn right....I'm going to expect him to play like one regardless of the offensive system he is in.

 

#Mili

[Tank 92]

I feel it coming.......... :lock:

[Ravenslifer]

Well, for me; the comparison is there because those 2 cats are the gold standard at the QB position and a mark for Joe Flacco to shoot for....in his own system!

 

 

 

Well that's who we all wish he could be, contract or not.  I'm just saying, like any contract, it's more often about the peer group and not about what you actually do.  And since everybody who is in Joe's peer group is making that kind of money, regardless of what they've actually done on the field, I don't see how it's fair to compare Joe to those guys alone, and NOT compare him to Matt Ryan and Philip Rivers and Jay Cutler, while at the same time those three get a pass.  All I'm saying is that, Joe gets compared to the best of all time, and the inference is he doesn't deserve what they get.  Yet he compares better to the three I just mention, who all make almost as much or more than he does - yet Joe isn't compared to them, and at the same time they aren't compared to Peyton and Brady and talked about like they don't deserve it.  Cutler is making 5 million less than Joe, yet I don't see all of the media talking heads going on about how it kills the Bears like they did with Joe and the Ravens last year.  Matt Ryan is coming off a bad season for him - based on the numbers he was putting up, his dip in production is about equal to Joe's - he completed fewer passes, fewer yards, fewer TDs than he had since his second year in the league, and had a career high INTs, yet I don't hear how Matt Ryan needs to play better.

 

That Joe needs to play better is a given, regardless of what's around him or his salary, but to say what he has is comparable to what Ryan, Cutler, Peyton, etc. have in terms of weaponry is a complete fallacy, especially this year - you can't count Jones and Pitta since they were out so long, so Joe was working with Torrey, the Rookie Marlon Brown, and two 35 year olds in Stokeley and Clark.  But somehow he's supposed to compete with Matt Ryan who has Roddy White and Julio Jones (granted Jones missed most of the season - and look at what happened to Ryan's numbers with just one guy out, imagine if he had 3 guys out like Joe), or Jay Cutler with Brandon Marshall and Alshon Jeffrey, not to mention Matt Forte averaging 4.6 YPC while our running backs averaged 2.9 and 3.1?

[The_11th_Raven]

I remember when this thread was about offensive coordinator canidates. Ah the good old days!

[flynismo]

you do realise welker was unproven and moss practially gave up on football after 2 terrible seasons with the raiders right.
both where big gambles and not proven commodity like you or anyone else tries to make it seem.

brady 2001-2006
flacco 2008-2013

brady 1895 completions 3061 attempts 21.558 yards 61.96% 7.06AVG 147 TD 64INT 88.48QB rating 95 games
flacco 1869 completions 3103 attempts 21545 yards 60.2% 6.94 AVG 121TD 78 INT 83.7 QB rating 96 games

hilariously brady had no boldin ,mason or torrey smith type of talent on that team lol.
matter of fact no WR had a 1000 yard season back then.
his wr cores where alot worse then the ravens lol.

if you think flacco had it bad just look up what brady had to work with lol.

troy brown , deion branch,david givens,david patten and ben watson.

accolades:
2001 pro bowl 6th best passer rating in NFL, SB MVP
2002 1st in TD thrown 4th pass compl 3rd pass attemp 6th in pass yard 9th in passer rating
2003 6th pass compl 5th pass attmp 6th pass yards SB MVP 10th passer rating
2004 6th in TD thrown pro bowl 9th passer rating 10th in passing yards
2005 3rd in TD thrown 6th passer rating 3rd pass compl 4th in attmp 1st in yards pro bowl
2006 4th in TD passes 9th passer rating 7th comp 8th in attmp 7th in yards

given what brady had to work with and what flacco had and we compare things its not as similiar as most of you want to believe......

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BradTo00.htm

last of me in this thread though.
its an pointless argument anyways since people will always believe what they want to believe.....
same goes for me ofcourse.

For someone who says they are done with this topic, you sure do talk a lot.
Here, let me show you how it's done...

[jimmypowder]

Please lock this thread! Please lock this thread! Please lock this thread!

[Tank 92]

For someone who says they are done with this topic, you sure do talk a lot.
Here, let me show you how it's done...

 

:crickets:

[Ravensfan23]

The "Flacco is the Man" thread was locked for a reason and this thread is going down the same path. If you guys continue to make this an add on tto that thread, this will be locked as well.

This thread is about improvements Flacco needs to make to his game. It's not about his contract, it's not about how he compares to Brady, Manning or any other. It's not about how those players would fit with us. It's not about how's a hater or who's a supporter.

[Dnyce215]

He just need to know when to throw the ball away and stop taking so many sacks, that set up long distances for moving the chains

[PerpetuallyBored74]

The Cover 2 neutralized the original West Coast Offense.

The Zone Blitz ended the Run and Shoot.

The salary cap has all but killed the Air Coryell.

 

There's a reason that all the SUCCESSFUL offenses run either the Ernhart-Perkins or some type of Spread Hybrid with elements of all 3 systems (WCO, AC, EP). Those offenses are PERFECT in the salary cap era, as you rely less on talent and more on scheme/flexibility, and thus can mix & match and plug & play different players with different strengths and weaknesses, even backup players.

 

That's why there's no point in comparing Flacco's production with any other QBs until he's finally in one of those systems--until then it's comparing (rotting) apples to oranges.

(The same, btw is also true for our WRs/TEs as their numbers are also impacted)

 

As for what Flacco needs to improve, it starts with getting him a competent QB coach and a capable OC. 

Because Joe's main weakness has always been he can't overcome bad coaching because he can't bring himself to (openly) defy it. You want the best from Joe Flacco? Get him decent coaches. And get rid of the Air Coryell with its deep reads first approach because unless you have an above average O-Line with big, fast WRs and a dual threat TE with a Pro Bowl RB, it doesn't matter that much who the QB is.

 

Think about it people: if the Air Coryell was such a great system for TODAY's NFL, then why don't any of the 4 elite QBs run it?

I

[PurpleCityLights]

I don't agree with this. Joe HAS improved in pocket awareness and will continue to improve reading Ds. For me, 2013 is a throw out year as there were so many other issues on offense. Obviously the Ravens used all available resources to replace missing pieces on D and had nothing left to fix the O line and provide depth at those positions. I think Flacco did remarkably well considering the circumstances.

Just curious........What QB do you think has the abilities to overcome a horrible O line, no running game, no dependable TE and "average WRs" to be successful?.

Qb by the name of Luck....

[Tank 92]

Qb by the name of Luck....

 

 

haha.......that's funny.

[burnbigben]

I'd love to know of any QB that has ever overcome all of that.

Ken Anderson from the Bengals. Or if you want a more recent example then early Aaron Rodgers. If Flacco needs everything else around him to be perfect for him to win then we shouldn't have given him the contract we gave him. Game managers don't get Aaron Rodgers type contracts so I expect more from him than he gave the team this season.

[PerpetuallyBored74]

Qb by the name of Luck....

 

Colts O-line - yeah they were bad

Colts RBs - above average with 4.3 YPC, Donald Brown was excellent with 5.3 YPC, all the Colts RBs were 4.0 YPC or better except Richardson who dragged their average down with his 2.9 YPC.

Colts TEs - Coby Fleener was very good (2nd on the team in receptions and receiving yards)

Colts WRs - Hilton and Wayne are both very good, the rest were solid in more limited roles except for Heyward-Bey,

Colts coaching was excellent too.

 

Overall, Luck had more to work with than Flacco.

Even his O-line, which was the weak point of their offense, was better than Joe's, a weakness that was exacerbated by the Ravens running the AC with its longer slower developing routes as compared to the Colts WCO with its shorter quicker ones.

And I don't recall Pagano costing his team 2 or 3 games with some truly boneheaded coaching decisions.

 

And yet, other than having half the INTs, Luck's stats were about the same as Flacco's.

 

As for what Joe needs to fix himself, it's really simple.

He needs better coaching. He needs an actual QB coach for one, and he needs a new OC who will move us away from the AC which has never been a good fit for this team. The Ravens need a scheme that will compensate for its 3 main weaknesses over the years rather than one that exposes them to be exploited.

 

Those 3 weaknesses are WRs who can't beat press coverage on their own, not having a dual-threat TE (who can block and catch) and having a hole at LG because of injuries, inexperience, inability, etc.

[redrum52]

you do realise welker was unproven and moss practially gave up on football after 2 terrible seasons with the raiders right.

both where big gambles and not proven commodity like you or anyone else tries to make it seem.

 

brady 2001-2006

flacco 2008-2013

 

brady 1895 completions 3061 attempts 21.558 yards 61.96% 7.06AVG  147 TD  64INT 88.48QB rating 95 games

flacco 1869 completions 3103 attempts  21545 yards  60.2%  6.94 AVG  121TD  78 INT 83.7 QB rating 96 games

 

hilariously brady had no boldin ,mason or torrey smith type of talent on that team lol.

matter of fact no WR had a 1000 yard season back then.

his wr cores where alot worse then the ravens lol.

 

if you think flacco had it bad just look up what brady had to work with lol.

 

troy brown , deion branch,david givens,david patten and ben watson.

 

accolades:

2001 pro bowl 6th best passer rating in NFL, SB MVP

2002 1st in TD thrown  4th pass compl 3rd pass attemp 6th in pass yard 9th in passer rating

2003 6th pass compl 5th pass  attmp 6th pass yards SB MVP 10th passer rating

2004 6th in TD thrown  pro bowl 9th passer rating 10th in passing yards

2005 3rd in TD thrown 6th passer rating 3rd pass compl 4th in attmp 1st in yards pro bowl

2006 4th in TD passes 9th passer rating 7th comp 8th in attmp 7th in yards 

 

given what brady had to work with and what flacco had and we compare things its not as similiar as most of you want to believe......

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BradTo00.htm

 

last of me in this thread though.

its an pointless argument anyways since people will always believe what they want to believe.....

same goes for me ofcourse.

I really admire your effort.  Nice work with the stats too since everyone always compares the first few years.  Flacco has more attempts, less completions, worse percentage, less tds, more picks, 1 more game played and a lower QBR.  LMAO.  The TD number isn't even that close, being 26 more in a time where it was harder to pass and 14 more picks, but that will be ignored.

 

With that said, your numbers won't matter to most, because as you said people will see what they see.

[redrum52]

LMAO... you all neg me for facts.  That was awfully quick too.  Truth is, if Brady was our QB and most of you all tried to compare Flacco to Brady, you all would be laughing at everyone defending Flacco, while trying to compare him to one of the greatest.  Could be wrong, but I don't think I am.

[Dnyce215]

LMAO... you all neg me for facts. That was awfully quick too. Truth is, if Brady was our QB and most of you all tried to compare Flacco to Brady, you all would be laughing at everyone defending Flacco, while trying to compare him to one of the greatest. Could be wrong, but I don't think I am.

Of course they will neg you truth hurts.