Baltimore Sun article: To fix Ravens offense, Joe Flacco must fix himself?

[gooftroop]

Agreed and  it also helps the O-line out with the protection schemes, etc..... To me, what make the elite QB's so great is pre reads when obviously coming out the huddle to the LOS. Throw some hard counts in there with saying something like Alaska to get a feel of what the defense is going to do as far as blitzes, etc...... Pre snap reads to me is winning 70% of the battle.

Well maybe, but you can't convince me that the only reason NE didn't lay a finger on Peyton all day today was because of his brilliant pre-snap recognition.

[gooftroop]

Bad adjustment by Joe, but a lousy route by Torrey on that play. Watch it again.

[The Mom Gene]

Tyrod.
Duh.

I'm not sure Tyrod has overcome much of anything... especially this year...

[hn68wb4]

Don't crucify me guys, but I somewhat agree

I'm not someone who thinks Flacco doesn't deserve the contract that he got, or that he sucks or anything

I just think that after what happened this season he may have a mental block (which will be the only block he has gotten all season)

how he responds next season will be key, especially since it looks as though Pitta may be walking because of cap. He needs to make sure he is mentally ready for next season, if he thinks he got a lot of crap before, he hasn't seen anything yet. After signing a huge contract and then throwing more ints than TDs, he will get scrutinized to no avail this offseason. If he can get over it and respond positively next season then this season will be all but forgotten. Our offense has tons of potential, but its also true that "to fix the offense" the line needs to be fixed big time, and before flacco can be fixed, our line needs to be fixed.

[arnie_uk]

Thats what I mentioned in my initial response I said that Flacco has a few plays that he calls but thats it...90% of the time its the Alaska call and its nothing fancy it is a run play or just a simple switch from a run to a pass or vise versa. And you never really see Joe diagnose the defense a whole lot. If we could get more complex with it it could be a huge improvement.

oh no doubt it will help, but to compare him to manning who's arguably the best ever in that regard is expecting a lot. Brady Bree's etc can't even hold his jock in that regard.

But even with manning, if you have communication issues you'll never get going with Audibles and hot routes etc

[K-Dog]

I'm not sure Tyrod has overcome much of anything... especially this year...

Dont be confused.
I am not that guy...

[Militant X 1]

This.  Joe will never change.  Joe will always be the way he is now.  Ray Lewis took some heat for it but he was right that Flacco will not get better.  If given the right support cast, Joe will take us to the promise land every year.  If Flacco has a poor line, mediocre running game, and average WRs, he will never be successful like some other QBs that can overcome those factors.

 

In general.....Joe seems to need a whole lot to be successful and that is my issue.  Sure, get him weapons but at the end of the day; Joe needs to do what he does and elevate his own game.  Cause to me; Torrey, Jacoby, Brown, Doss, Dickson and Pitta may not be huge names or high caliber types of players but they are good and decent at best.  Hell!  Work with what you got Flacco!  And help them elevate their game in the process. 

 

LOL, another Flacco thread. With positive post comes negative post and I agree, Joe needs to fix himself first. It would be a pity to surround him with elite pieces and he still puts out a mediocre performance or make boneheaded ( Romo comes to mind ) decisions in crucial points in the game. While I won't go overboard to make it seem like Joe has had the worse supporting cast and coaching of all time in  less than a 1 year span, I will say that he does need better pieces in his supporting cast and he needs a run game with a PA scheme to really help him shine.

 

And some cats can't seem to handle that!  lol!

 

Don't crucify me guys, but I somewhat agree

I'm not someone who thinks Flacco doesn't deserve the contract that he got, or that he sucks or anything

I just think that after what happened this season he may have a mental block (which will be the only block he has gotten all season)

how he responds next season will be key, especially since it looks as though Pitta may be walking because of cap. He needs to make sure he is mentally ready for next season, if he thinks he got a lot of crap before, he hasn't seen anything yet. After signing a huge contract and then throwing more ints than TDs, he will get scrutinized to no avail this offseason. If he can get over it and respond positively next season then this season will be all but forgotten. Our offense has tons of potential, but its also true that "to fix the offense" the line needs to be fixed big time, and before flacco can be fixed, our line needs to be fixed.

 

This has been said about Flacco his entire career so far.  When is enough...enough?  Just wondering!

 

#Mili

[The Mom Gene]

Okay... Gotcha... In Reality???  It's hard to tell with all that has happened so far this postseason...

[The Mom Gene]

 

 

This has been said about Flacco his entire career so far.  When is enough...enough?  Just wondering!

 

#Mili

...and like Winning a Super Bowl wasn't enough.

[MrPlankton]

Dickson and Doss are decent? Lol. Tandon Doss was brought back as a kneejerk reaction to the Jones injury in the first week and he dropped off the face of the earth after the Bears game, I believe.

 

Stokley? Gone after week three (two?) or so. Clark? Did okay but the guy's too old.

 

Deonte Thompson? Is Deonte Thompson a decent WR too, lol?

 

Brown has a lot of potential but is very raw.

 

All QBs need a good supporting cast.

 

Our highest offensive pick was a guy who played the majority of his snaps on ST. Our WR was placed on IR. The best offensive rookie was a UDFA. Come on.

 

But it's okay, we can just run the Wildcat to compensate. All Flacco has to do is run a fake route, he'll never get in... oh wait.

[hn68wb4]

In general.....Joe seems to need a whole lot to be successful and that is my issue.  Sure, get him weapons but at the end of the day; Joe needs to do what he does and elevate his own game.  Cause to me; Torrey, Jacoby, Brown, Doss, Dickson and Pitta may not be huge names or high caliber types of players but they are good and decent at best.  Hell!  Work with what you got Flacco!  And help them elevate their game in the process. 

 

 

And some cats can't seem to handle that!  lol!

 

 

This has been said about Flacco his entire career so far.  When is enough...enough?  Just wondering!

 

#Mili

are you insinuating that next season isn't key for Flacco?

for the first time in his career we missed the playoffs, he threw more picks than TDs, and had an overall disappointing year, like I said: I'm not saying Flacco was the only problem this year or that he deserves a majority or the blame

yeah some people have been saying that his whole career, but I haven't, this is the first time I've said that phrase, and I'm sticking to it, after the horrible year he had, we are going to see just how mentally tough Flacco is and how well he can rebound from the worst year of his career. Obviously what we do this offseason is also key, if we throw the same exact team we have right now next year then he probably won't do any better, maybe a little better with a healthy Pitta, but not a major difference.

[hn68wb4]

Dickson and Doss are decent? Lol. Tandon Doss was brought back as a kneejerk reaction to the Jones injury in the first week and he dropped off the face of the earth after the Bears game, I believe.

 

Stokley? Gone after week three (two?) or so. Clark? Did okay but the guy's too old.

 

Deonte Thompson? Is Deonte Thompson a decent WR too, lol?

 

Brown has a lot of potential but is very raw.

 

All QBs need a good supporting cast.

 

Our highest offensive pick was a guy who played the majority of his snaps on ST. Our WR was placed on IR. The best offensive rookie was a UDFA. Come on.

Stokley did great, he was with the team all year, the problem with him was that he was injured all the time, he was literally our only weapon on 3rd down with Pitta out

Deonte Thompson was decent when he was on the field, he too was injured literally all the time, when he was in he made good catches, and he was like the 4th or 5th option at WR.

I don't think you watched any of the games if you think Clark did good and Stokley did bad, Stokley did at least better than Clark, had stokley been on the field all year he would have put up pretty good stats, but he was only on the field for what? 6 games at most. Dallas Clark disappeared in crunch time, the only reason his stats were better than stokley's were because he was in like 11 games - its not hard to look good when you are literally the only option at TE, Dickson wasn't doing anything, Stokley was the 3/4 option at best

[MrPlankton]

Stokley did great, he was with the team all year, the problem with him was that he was injured all the time, he was literally our only weapon on 3rd down with Pitta out

Deonte Thompson was decent when he was on the field, he too was injured literally all the time, when he was in he made good catches, and he was like the 4th or 5th option at WR.

I don't think you watched any of the games if you think Clark did good and Stokley did bad, Stokley did at least better than Clark, had stokley been on the field all year he would have put up pretty good stats, but he was only on the field for what? 6 games at most. Dallas Clark disappeared in crunch time, the only reason his stats were better than stokley's were because he was in like 11 games - its not hard to look good when you are literally the only option at TE, Dickson wasn't doing anything, Stokley was the 3/4 option at best

 

Sorry, I should have been more clear. I didn't imply that Clark played better than Stokley did. I am sure if they both played the same amount of games, Stokley would have had a far bigger impact than Clark.

[1/28/01]

Ugh...we're still talking incessantly about Flacco?

[wayne]

Well maybe, but you can't convince me that the only reason NE didn't lay a finger on Peyton all day today was because of his brilliant pre-snap recognition.

 

I feel it was a major part of it. Wasn't two of Peyton best O-lineman hurt for majority of the season? Also, not saying the Pro Bowl justifies this statement to the fullest but he only had one O-lineman make the pro bowl this season. Just saying, you think it's a coincidence that guys like Brady and Manning seem to always have the best O-lines?No, it's not that they have the best O-lineman out there but it's there pre snap that helps the O-line out so much and they do things to neutralize the pass rush like bubble screens, dink and dunk passes as well as calling out the protection scheme for the offensive line so they will be less likely to be confused by overloads and stunts. Believe it or not, QBs can help their O-lineman out making them look better than what they are or they can hurt their O-lineman making them look worse than they are. Big Ben jumps out at me as a prime example and even Tomlin said the O-line wasn't as bad as it seemed, it's more a result of Big Ben holding on to the ball too long.

...and like Winning a Super Bowl wasn't enough.

Going to ask you that question, is it? So now that Joe has helped us win a SB, Joe can play how he wants to play now and he deserves no just criticism? Thought we were trying to get as many SB's as we can with Joe at the helm, not just get one and be satisfied or content?

[1/28/01]

The "wasn't a SB enough?" crap is hilarious. Hey, let's be complacent now.

[The Mom Gene]

[quote name="wayne" post="1753628" timestamp="1390183009"]

Going to ask you that question, is it? So now that Joe has helped us win a SB, Joe can play how he wants to play now and he deserves no just criticism? Thought we were trying to get as many SB's as we can with Joe at the helm, not just get one and be satisfied or content?[/quote]Not saying that..... Someone asked a completely different question, and statement, and THAT was my response to his question... Please try and not take my statements out of context.

[quote name="1/28/01" post="1753647" timestamp="1390183541"]
The "wasn't a SB enough?" crap is hilarious. Hey, let's be complacent now.[/quote]You too.... If you read the statement I was responding to you might have a little different response. I never said that he didn't deserve any criticism.

[gooftroop]

I feel it was a major part of it. Wasn't two of Peyton best O-lineman hurt for majority of the season? Also, not saying the Pro Bowl justifies this statement to the fullest but he only had one O-lineman make the pro bowl this season. Just saying, you think it's a coincidence that guys like Brady and Manning seem to always have the best O-lines?No, it's not that they have the best O-lineman out there but it's there pre snap that helps the O-line out so much and they do things to neutralize the pass rush like bubble screens, dink and dunk passes as well as calling out the protection scheme for the offensive line so they will be less likely to be confused by overloads and stunts. Believe it or not, QBs can help their O-lineman out making them look better than what they are or they can hurt their O-lineman making them look worse than they are. Big Ben jumps out at me as a prime example and even Tomlin said the O-line wasn't as bad as it seemed, it's more a result of Big Ben holding on to the ball too long.

Going to ask you that question, is it? So now that Joe has helped us win a SB, Joe can play how he wants to play now and he deserves no just criticism? Thought we were trying to get as many SB's as we can with Joe at the helm, not just get one and be satisfied or content?

Peyton had all day to throw, even on deep routes that took forever to open up. That's not a result of Peyton's football genius. Which is undisputed, I agree...

[hn68wb4]

Not saying that.....  Someone asked a completely different question, and statement,  and THAT was my response to his question...   Please try and not take my statements out of context.

how is that taking it out of context?

I've been following the conversation, the comment you replied to was a reply to my comment criticizing me for saying that next year is key for flacco

unless I'm somehow reading it wrong? were you being sarcastic? Im not trying to sound like a villain here, im just trying to see if you meant it to be taking some other way than me and obviously the other guy took it

[wayne]

Peyton had all day to throw, even on deep routes that took forever to open up. That's not a result of Peyton's football genius. Which is undisputed, I agree...

So Peyton walking up to the LOS calling out different things is just a bunch of mumbo jumbo? NE doesn't have the greatest pass rushers you know, they are more run stoppers to me and that's one of the reasons why the Patriots D hasn't been that good b/c if you look at every other position on their D, they look well off. Peyton football genius plays a role in it but no, I'm not saying it's all him. Again, two of his best O-lineman have been hurt for majority of the year and only one lineman made it to the pro bowl. You mean to tell me some guys off the bench is that good or is it another factor that's helping them?

[hn68wb4]

So Peyton walking up to the LOS calling out different things is just a bunch of mumbo jumbo? NE doesn't have the greatest pass rushers you know, they are more run stoppers to me and that's one of the reasons why the Patriots D hasn't been that good b/c if you look at every other position on their D, they look well off. Peyton football genius plays a role in it but no, I'm not saying it's all him. Again, two of his best O-lineman have been hurt for majority of the year and only one lineman made it to the pro bowl. You mean to tell me some guys off the bench is that good or is it another factor that's helping them?

just saying........the pro bowl isn't a good measure of how good some players play, plenty of good players get snubbed and plenty of celebrities get in just because of their name

i don't know how good their line was, i haven't paid attention to the Broncos all season

[Ravensfan23]

I feel it was a major part of it. Wasn't two of Peyton best O-lineman hurt for majority of the season? Also, not saying the Pro Bowl justifies this statement to the fullest but he only had one O-lineman make the pro bowl this season. Just saying, you think it's a coincidence that guys like Brady and Manning seem to always have the best O-lines?No, it's not that they have the best O-lineman out there but it's there pre snap that helps the O-line out so much and they do things to neutralize the pass rush like bubble screens, dink and dunk passes as well as calling out the protection scheme for the offensive line so they will be less likely to be confused by overloads and stunts. Believe it or not, QBs can help their O-lineman out making them look better than what they are or they can hurt their O-lineman making them look worse than they are. Big Ben jumps out at me as a prime example and even Tomlin said the O-line wasn't as bad as it seemed, it's more a result of Big Ben holding on to the ball too long.

Going to ask you that question, is it? So now that Joe has helped us win a SB, Joe can play how he wants to play now and he deserves no just criticism? Thought we were trying to get as many SB's as we can with Joe at the helm, not just get one and be satisfied or content?

I'd say that's exactly what Flacco did during the SB run. He helped the oline look much better with quicker throws, but i'd also say those pressure beater that you aks weren't built into our offense.

Now with that said Joe definitely has to improve in that area. There are times that regardless of what the offense has built in, he shouldn't run the called play based on the defense and he'll run it anyway. There were times that we tried to run a couple WR screens but Flacco was off target. So while I'm a huge Flacco fan, because I think his potential is so much bigger then he shows, there are areas I can't excuse Flacco for having weaknesses.

As for the SB thing, I think even Joe would say that's over and done with. Yes he'll always be a SB MVP but he has the capability and talent to win many more of those honors and he'll have to improve his play to do so. I feel the Ravens can help him a lot, but there are certainly areas that only Flacco himself can improve with hard work.

[wayne]

just saying........the pro bowl isn't a good measure of how good some players play, plenty of good players get snubbed and plenty of celebrities get in just because of their name

i don't know how good their line was, i haven't paid attention to the Broncos all season

That's why in the post before the one you quoted me on, in so many words I said that the Pro Bolw isn't the all be all of deciding talent......but....... it merits some type of weight. Name me some  O-lineman that was drafted by the Patriots and Broncos in the early rounds and if you throw out the point that good O-lineman can go in the later rounds..... then I would say that you don't think the O-lineman the Ravens have are better O-lineman than advertised? We are up in arms about every O-lineman then if you say that.

[wayne]

I'd say that's exactly what Flacco did during the SB run. He helped the oline look much better with quicker throws, but i'd also say those pressure beater that you aks weren't built into our offense.

Now with that said Joe definitely has to improve in that area. There are times that regardless of what the offense has built in, he shouldn't run the called play based on the defense and he'll run it anyway. There were times that we tried to run a couple WR screens but Flacco was off target. So while I'm a huge Flacco fan, because I think his potential is so much bigger then he shows, there are areas I can't excuse Flacco for having weaknesses.

As for the SB thing, I think even Joe would say that's over and done with. Yes he'll always be a SB MVP but he has the capability and talent to win many more of those honors and he'll have to improve his play to do so. I feel the Ravens can help him a lot, but there are certainly areas that only Flacco himself can improve with hard work.

Agreed!!!!!

[hn68wb4]

why would I throw out the fact that good o-lineman can come in the later rounds?not a single thing i said would indicate that i would. i would be effectively throwing out our best lineman Yanda. I already said that i don't follow either the Broncos and Patriots, so how can i name you any lineman from either team except Clady, Vollmer, Solder, and Mankins? why are you all up in arms at me, all i threw in was that the pro bowl isn't a good evaluator of ability. i didn't read back in your conversation, i just saw you using the pro bowl to evaluate ability and thought i would just throw in that big names get in over some players who are better but less known

[wayne]

why would I throw out the fact that good o-lineman can come in the later rounds?not a single thing i said would indicate that i would. i would be effectively throwing out our best lineman Yanda. I already said that i don't follow either the Broncos and Patriots, so how can i name you any lineman from either team except Clady, Vollmer, Solder, and Mankins? why are you all up in arms at me, all i threw in was that the pro bowl isn't a good evaluator of ability. i didn't read back in your conversation, i just saw you using the pro bowl to evaluate ability and thought i would just throw in that big names get in over some players who are better but less known

I'm not up in arms with you,lol...... we talking. You simply quoted me on one of my post and I felt the need to go deeper in to elaborate on what I said.

[1/28/01]

You too.... If you read the statement I was responding to you might have a little different response. I never said that he didn't deserve any criticism.

Mine was a general comment, but okay.

[gooftroop]

So Peyton walking up to the LOS calling out different things is just a bunch of mumbo jumbo? NE doesn't have the greatest pass rushers you know, they are more run stoppers to me and that's one of the reasons why the Patriots D hasn't been that good b/c if you look at every other position on their D, they look well off. Peyton football genius plays a role in it but no, I'm not saying it's all him. Again, two of his best O-lineman have been hurt for majority of the year and only one lineman made it to the pro bowl. You mean to tell me some guys off the bench is that good or is it another factor that's helping them?

Try arguing with things I've actually said.

[jdynamite]

There are certain things Joe can improve on. In previous seasons there was a debate of Joe getting freedom to audible and change plays at the line of scrimmage. With that comes pre-snap recognition.
Joe did show improvement on his cadence ( drawing various offsides during the season ).
But he still doesn't seem to diagnose the blitz well enough yet, to change to a hot route with a slant, screen or something ( this could also be a reflection on our pathetic playbook ). But at times this season there were 8 r 9 players in the box on 2nd and 10 I don't care if a run was called he should check to a quick pass. He needs to step into his deep passes more to get a more accurate throw, ( regardless of pressure Flacco too often relies on his ultra strong arm on deep throws rather than putting some touch on it leading the WR,) it's often either 5 yards too deep with no chance of a catch or under throw where Torrey or Jacoby has to stop for it and defend a potential int.
Also on the very few times that we did attempt a WR screen it was thrown high and rendered the play useless ( we didn't try many to begin with and those failed attempts didn't encourage them to try more )

The play-calling was/ is an issue with an unstable O-Line and horrible run game we needed to use more short passes to compensate for lack of protection but this adjustment was never made we constantly used the same deep routes.

[jdynamite]

When it comes to all the talk about Oline people need to realize a QB with a quick release does play a huge role in limiting sacks. Peyton manning had average Olines in Indy for years( Tony Ugoh etc ) this year in Denver he was missing several starting Olinemen but Peyton gets that ball out quickly, he try's to limit sacks when ever possible even if it's a throw away.

Phillip rivers has played with patch olines for last 3 years and this season with a new coaching staff they finally made him realize that getting the ball out quickly for a high percentage pass is better than always waiting for the home run deep throw like years past.