[News] Coaching Search Rumor Mill

[PolishRifle]

Doesn't Kubiak live and die with the play-action pass? I don't remember him running a very creative systems either. I'd rather have us continue down the path we took this season, but get more creative in the playcalling.

[5aiah]

You would think, but some people definitely take joy in the failures.

I think Caldwell is in over his head as an OC. That's just what I think.

I don't think Caldwell is in over his head as a Ravens OC. I think with the limited power and resources we have always given our OCs they always come out looking bad, even when they build super bowl winning offenses. I don't think this is a desirable job unless Ozzie lets prospective candidates know he is going to spend a year or two looking out for the offense. Who in their right mind will come here knowing the odds(draft direction,personnel,deep rooted offensive philosophy, and fan base) stacked against them. No one becomes our OC and then goes on to bigger things, for a reason.

[Yatagarasu]

No to Kubiak because his offense is all based on the run game. Once the run game is gone, then it's downhill from there.

 

Kyle Shanahan is someone I would look into since he knows the ZBS, but he's also bringing in the WCO, which is not part of Flacco's strength.

 

Hue Jackson... Ravens need to pull the trigger on this guy since he can work magic on the team like he did with the Bengals Running Game.

 

Send Jim Caldwell back to QB Coach!

[gabefergy]

I don't think Caldwell is in over his head as a Ravens OC. I think with the limited power and resources we have always given our OCs they always come out looking bad, even when they build super bowl winning offenses. I don't think this is a desirable job unless Ozzie lets prospective candidates know he is going to spend a year or two looking out for the offense. Who in their right mind will come here knowing the odds(draft direction,personnel,deep rooted offensive philosophy, and fan base) stacked against them. No one becomes our OC and then goes on to bigger things, for a reason.

2 reasons. The Ravens are very successful with the best GM in the biz, and a very talented QB.

I think a new OC would and should have concerns about the personnel on offense and that would be part of the hiring.

[5aiah]

Doesn't Kubiak live and die with the play-action pass? I don't remember him running a very creative systems either. I'd rather have us continue down the path we took this season, but get more creative in the playcalling.

Its a case of "the grass is greener on the other side". We catch many of our guys faults but someone from the outside looks better than they actually are.

[ratedr]

No to Kubiak because his offense is all based on the run game. Once the run game is gone, then it's downhill from there.

Kyle Shanahan is someone I would look into since he knows the ZBS, but he's also bringing in the WCO, which is not part of Flacco's strength.

Hue Jackson... Ravens need to pull the trigger on this guy since he can work magic on the team like he did with the Bengals Running Game.

Send Jim Caldwell back to QB Coach!

I agree with all of this but iirc Hue Jackson and John Harbaugh don't have a great relationship.

[5aiah]

No to Kubiak because his offense is all based on the run game. Once the run game is gone, then it's downhill from there.

 

Kyle Shanahan is someone I would look into since he knows the ZBS, but he's also bringing in the WCO, which is not part of Flacco's strength.

 

Hue Jackson... Ravens need to pull the trigger on this guy since he can work magic on the team like he did with the Bengals Running Game.

 

Send Jim Caldwell back to QB Coach!

Hue Jackson coming back to the Baltimore coaching staff would be nice. Shanny jr and kubiak aren't exactly good choices. Kubiak isn't a real upgrade and I still have questions about how much Kyle had to do with the RG3 debacle.

[Chris K]

Chudz seems like a pretty good choice, he did the best he could with the personnel he had in Cleveland. 

[jazz1988]

1. I think you are referring to bunch formations, which are designed to help receivers get off of the line without being pressed and confuse zone defenders in the area. It works well when your receivers run good routes and can find the holes in the coverage shell. It all comes down to your personnel. Chip used bunch formations at Oregon a bit but with the Eagles he has two beast TEs and hyper talented receivers. Bunch is used to hide weaknesses of the offense and attack weaknesses of the defense. Spreading out doesn't do anything extra for us. You have to know why these coaches use these formations and how before you critique their work.

2. We have a system and offensive identity. The Air Coryell system and had a rugged tough physical swaggering bunch of men in every position group. We are sticking the Air Coryell despite Cam leaving because it fit our offense best this year. We couldn't fit into much else. We don't have the talent at receiver that others do. Our offensive identity has already been established but when you can't do what you used to be good at it shakes everything up. Once the run game is back in order and we get a true possession receiver on the field the entire thing falls into place.    

 

I  don't understand how the chargers can  lose their two top receivers such as Macolm Flyod and Denario Alexander but still turn out to have the  fifth overall offense in the league. Is rookie Keenan Allen,Vincent Brown and Eddie Royal really  that more talented than Torrey Smith, Marlon Brown and Jacoby Jones ? Is Philip Rivers whom had a disaster year under the  air corydell system last year really that much better than Joe Flacco ?

 

Keenan Allen is making noise right now in the league , Vincent Brown is a slot receiver at best with good hands, and Eddie Royal is the speedy guy   whom is a good kick returner with iffy hands at times but im not sure if they are  great route runners.  I know they still have one of the best tight ends in the game  in Antonio Gates   but yet they are ranked 4th in the league when it comes to passing the ball. I think that's amazing how a offensive coordinator can do so well when  he loses basicly his number one and two receivers to injuries but still produce a good passing offense but it's ashame the ravens offense couldn't do the same.

[5aiah]

2 reasons. The Ravens are very successful with the best GM in the biz, and a very talented QB.

I think a new OC would and should have concerns about the personnel on offense and that would be part of the hiring.

Those would be reasons why people would go on to become head coaches. Those statements are true but are exactly indicative of the even greater problems facing prospective OCs. People keep talking about Trestman and what he did for the Bears but they forget the Bears offense is much more talented then their defense. The offense became the focal point immediately, they grabbed Bennet and the offensive lineman Long. Alshon was always going to be a stud year 2, anyone who knew his skill set could see that coming. It's not as simple as just grabbing another coordinator, that's my point. We agree the prospective OC's would have to be assured of more support than their predecessors usually got, but I don't see them fully getting it, which will dissuade the top minds from ever coming here.

[5aiah]

I  don't understand how the chargers can  lose their two top receivers such as Macolm Flyod and Denario Alexander but still turn out to have the  fifth overall offense in the league. Is rookie Keenan Allen,Vincent Brown and Eddie Royal really  that more talented than Torrey Smith, Marlon Brown and Jacoby Jones ? Is Philip Rivers whom had a disaster year under the  air corydell system last year really that much better than Joe Flacco ?

 

Keenan Allen is making noise right now in the league , Vincent Brown is a slot receiver at best with good hands, and Eddie Royal is the speedy guy   whom is a good kick returner with iffy hands at times but im not sure if they are  great route runners.  I know they still have one of the best tight ends in the game  in Antonio Gates   but yet they are ranked 4th in the league when it comes to passing the ball. I think that's amazing how a offensive coordinator can do so well when  he loses basicly his number one and two receivers to injuries but still produce a good passing offense but it's ashame the ravens offense couldn't do the same.

You have some knowledge on these guys but perhaps need to check out the details, maybe hit a chargers forum. Keenan Allen just isn't some guy making noise, he is a rookie with great route running skills, better than any of our receivers, who has been able to affect the passing game short mid and deep without elite speed. Keenan is the real deal when healthy and probably their best receiver when it comes to running routes even when Floyd and Denario get back, despite being their rookie. Antonio had a bounce back year and Phillip Rivers is worlds above Flacco in terms of reading defenses and accuracy on a consistent basis. Flacco is still the much better QB and might even match Rivers's mental ability one day but he isn't even close right now. Rivers is no joke, he isn't built for Air Coryell, Flacco is. They are totally different QBs. Just because a bunch of boneheaded teams passed on the most NFL ready receiver doesn't mean he wasn't just that. He has been a pleasure to watch, and watch him we will,next Sunday, all of us. 

[gabefergy]

Those would be reasons why people would go on to become head coaches. Those statements are true but are exactly indicative of the even greater problems facing prospective OCs. People keep talking about Trestman and what he did for the Bears but they forget the Bears offense is much more talented then their defense. The offense became the focal point immediately, they grabbed Bennet and the offensive lineman Long. Alshon was always going to be a stud year 2, anyone who knew his skill set could see that coming. It's not as simple as just grabbing another coordinator, that's my point. We agree the prospective OC's would have to be assured of more support than their predecessors usually got, but I don't see them fully getting it, which will dissuade the top minds from ever coming here.

Well one of the things that changed when Trestman came in was a complete revamping of the OL in Chicago. They essentially replaced 4 starters and it made a huge difference. Not sure an OC would have the same kind of sway, but its certainly conceivable that a candidate can come in and say "this is what needs to be fixed." I do think this is an attractive job because like I said before, the Ravens are a well run and successful team. Turning around the offense could be viewed as a springboard for future HC positions.

[5aiah]

Well one of the things that changed when Trestman came in was a complete revamping of the OL in Chicago. They essentially replaced 4 starters and it made a huge difference. Not sure an OC would have the same kind of sway, but its certainly conceivable that a candidate can come in and say "this is what needs to be fixed." I do think this is an attractive job because like I said before, the Ravens are a well run and successful team. Turning around the offense could be viewed as a springboard for future HC positions.

Agree to disagree, though I hope you are right, history points in the opposite direction. But back to the point, i really do hope we either give Caldwell another shot with another offseason(and a chance at some actual talent on offense) under his belt or find a great offensive mind and just not fire yet another OC as a scapegoat and bring in more of the same. With Jacoby possibly leaving and DT not panning out this could be the time to move to another system but we would need a lot more talent at receiver to do so.

[gabefergy]

Agree to disagree, though I hope you are right, history points in the opposite direction. But back to the point, i really do hope we either give Caldwell another shot with another offseason(and a chance at some actual talent on offense) under his belt or find a great offensive mind and just not fire yet another OC as a scapegoat and bring in more of the same. With Jacoby possibly leaving and DT not panning out this could be the time to move to another system but we would need a lot more talent at receiver to do so.

It's true that Caldwell was dealt a losing hand. Terrible OL play and very limited weapons at WR will handicap any OC. I think a more creative OC could have done better, but if I had to choose between a new OC and new players on offense I would take the latter.

[5aiah]

It's true that Caldwell was dealt a losing hand. Terrible OL play and very limited weapons at WR will handicap any OC. I think a more creative OC could have done better, but if I had to choose between a new OC and new players on offense I would take the latter.

I concur.

[PurpleCityLights]

I dont understand how you can be a Ravens fan for this long & not get that it doesnt matter who the OC is John will never open up the playbook or let Flacco run this offense.......

[jazz1988]

It's true that Caldwell was dealt a losing hand. Terrible OL play and very limited weapons at WR will handicap any OC. I think a more creative OC could have done better, but if I had to choose between a new OC and new players on offense I would take the latter.

 

    I agree I think we had enough talent on offense to help out Joe Flacco a lot more but the play calling just wasn't creative enough . Caldwell did a good job last year  but I think its obvious that he should be the quarterback coach only and  a new offensive coordinator should be hired. I know the receivers the ravens  have aren't great route runners but you don't  always need a great route runner in order to have a creative passing attack or for the offensive coordinator to think out side of the box . 

 

    Even if we draft or sign better talent  to help out the offense I don't really expect much change because right now we have a offense that's just not smart enough and that starts with the coaches .

[5aiah]

    I agree I think we had enough talent on offense to help out Joe Flacco a lot more but the play calling just wasn't creative enough . Caldwell did a good job last year  but I think its obvious that he should be the quarterback coach only and  a new offensive coordinator should be hired. I know the receivers the ravens  have aren't great route runners but you don't  always need a great route runner in order to have a creative passing attack or for the offensive coordinator to think out side of the box . 

 

    Even if we draft or sign better talent  to help out the offense I don't really expect much change because right now we have a offense that's just not smart enough and that starts with the coaches .

Accept we didn't. Given the lack of talent on the line, any creativity in the passing game would have been limited in how much it could help Flacco because the run game was so dysmal.  

[Militant X 1]

Clearly this Joe's fault and not the WRs who can't get open.

Gabe, I hear cats in here like yourself always say that WRs can't get open.  I disagree with this to a degree.  lol! Sure there have been multiple times when they were just jammed and locked up.  And yet, on yesterday, I saw a few open and Joe failed to notice them.  One on play Doss was running across the middle of the field with at least 3-4 steps in front of his defender.  If Joe hits him in stride he could have pick up the 1st down and a few yards after the catch. 

 

Then there is Jacoby who got open on that corner route in the end zone.  Joe overthrows him on that play!  Then, Pierce was running across the middle of the field near the end zone again...wide open!  If Flacco hits him there it could have been a TD but he was so focused and locked onto Pitta that he didn't see him.  Maybe, our WRs are getting open "at times" and Joe is just not making the proper reads or quickly going through his progression to capitalize on it?  Has that thought ever crossed your mind?

 

#Mili

[5aiah]

Gabe, I hear cats in here like yourself always say that WRs can't get open.  I disagree to a degree.  Sure there have been multiple times when they were just jammed and locked up.  And yet, on yesterday, I saw a few open and Joe failed to notice them.  One on play Doss was running across the middle of the field with at least 3-4 steps in front of his defender.  If Joe hits him in stride he could have pick up the 1st down and a few yards after the catch. 

 

Then there is Jacoby who got open on that corner route in the end zone.  Joe overthrows him on that play!  Then, Pierce was running across the middle of the field near the end zone again...wide open!  If Flacco hits him there it could have been a TD but he was so focused and locked onto Pitta that he didn't see him.  Maybe, our WRs are getting open "at times" and Joe is just not making the proper reads or quickly going through his progression to capitalize on it?  As that thought ever crossed your mind?

 

#Mili

No because Flacco is perfect when it comes to going through reads. He goes through them as quick as possible and never misses an open man. His awareness is top notch. He is a true field general and has the vision to throw receivers open. If he didn't throw it to an open man its because he knew they weren't going to catch the ball. Flacco is the total package already, he can do it all.

[gabefergy]

Gabe, I hear cats in here like yourself always say that WRs can't get open.  I disagree with this to a degree.  lol! Sure there have been multiple times when they were just jammed and locked up.  And yet, on yesterday, I saw a few open and Joe failed to notice them.  One on play Doss was running across the middle of the field with at least 3-4 steps in front of his defender.  If Joe hits him in stride he could have pick up the 1st down and a few yards after the catch. 

 

Then there is Jacoby who got open on that corner route in the end zone.  Joe overthrows him on that play!  Then, Pierce was running across the middle of the field near the end zone again...wide open!  If Flacco hits him there it could have been a TD but he was so focused and locked onto Pitta that he didn't see him.  Maybe, our WRs are getting open "at times" and Joe is just not making the proper reads or quickly going through his progression to capitalize on it?  Has that thought ever crossed your mind?

 

#Mili

You're right, he misses open receivers at times, but the majority of the time they just aren't open. He's also been under pressure a lot which might be part of the reason why he is missing players that seem like they are open. Like that play to where Pierce was open, Joe was getting pressured and had to get rid of the ball. Pierce came open after he already made his decision because two Cincinatti defenders ran into each other. If Joe had waited a split second longer he would have taken a sack.

[flynismo]

Clearly this Joe's fault and not the WRs who can't get open.

It's also Flaccos fault for calling a play where a guy runs a three yard route on 3rd and 10.

But I'll stop with the excuses now before the lynch mob comes for me.

[jazz1988]

Accept we didn't. Given the lack of talent on the line, any creativity in the passing game would have been limited in how much it could help Flacco because the run game was so dysmal.  

 

More slants, more screens, more comeback routes , quick pitches to the receiver and atleast more pitches or counters for the  running backs instead of calling inside runs all the time would had been much needed( you don't need to be a great route runner for these). I still don't see how it made so much sense to call  plays that required our receivers to go deep  for the majority of the time knowing we lack talent on the offensive line to hold up in pass protection consistently for that long.

 

In this league you either going to adept or get eating alive. The Bengels defense  took advantage of  The Ravens offense biggest weakness which is the refusal to adapt when needed. Flacco basically was getting killed out there because  our offensive coordinator and run game coordinator chose to stick to their  old guns instead of bringing out news ones just in case things got ugly.

 

We need  a new offensive coordinator unless Jim Caldwell sees the light.

[LEGEN-wait for it-DARY]

1. Norv

2. Chud 

 

And Mike Munchak as the OL coach.

[Militant X 1]

You're right, he misses open receivers at times, but the majority of the time they just aren't open. He's also been under pressure a lot which might be part of the reason why he is missing players that seem like they are open. Like that play to where Pierce was open, Joe was getting pressured and had to get rid of the ball. Pierce came open after he already made his decision because two Cincinatti defenders ran into each other. If Joe had waited a split second longer he would have taken a sack.

I understand about the pressure cause that is obvious.  And yet, I don't see him being pressured all of the time on some of these missed opportunities.  Like when Doss was running across the middle of the formation.  I believe Doss had nearly 3-5 steps on his defender and Flacco didn't see him and dumped it over to Pierce near the sidelines.

 

#Mili

[gabefergy]

I understand about the pressure cause that is obvious. And yet, I don't see him being pressured all of the time on some of these missed opportunities. Like when Doss was running across the middle of the formation. I believe Doss had nearly 3-5 steps on his defender and Flacco didn't see him and dumped it over to Pierce near the sidelines.

#Mili

Im not sayunh he never misses open receivers or always makes the right reads. Flacco is far from perfect, but I maintain that a lot of the dump-offs are because there isn't anywhere else to go with the ball.

[jimmypowder]

I'll take Brian Billick as new OC

Offensive genius !!!! Lol

[pitchblack_20]

Im sorry guys..but theres no magical system thats suddenly gonna automatically get our receivers wide open on every play. Alot of that is the QB being able to find the best option EARLY in the play..and deliver the ball at the most opportune time..and Joe has shown he cant do that consistently.

I think it's more him waiting to long for guys to get open instead of putting the ball in a spot for them to make a play.

[pitchblack_20]

OCs aren't going to want to come here because of our lack of Oline talent.

Nothing Ozzie can't fix.

[izvoodoo]

Nothing Ozzie can't fix.

Yeah, but it's going to be tough.  For former HC's and such.  They may hire kubiak in Tampa