Offensive System/Scheme for 2014

[Dfence4champs2052]

Run and shoot.....I want an explosive, point producing offense!!!

[PerpetuallyBored74]

Run and shoot.....I want an explosive, point producing offense!!!

 

You'll have to build a time machine, since the advent of the zone blitz killed the run and shoot.

And good luck finding a safe (and cost effective) means of producing the 1.21 gigawatts of power that you'll also need.

[Corvus_corax]

The hurry up / shotgun offense is what our passing game does best. We did it all year last year with mixed results...when the OL stunk, it killed our offense AND defense. But when the OL played well.....you saw the postseason last year?

 

Of course I saw the postseason last year and loved every minute of it.

 

Joe Flacco was great in the post season last year, no doubt about it. But I think his level of play was so good that people tend to forget just how big a part the running game played in what we did. Against the Colts we ran the ball more than we threw it, Ray Rice carried the ball 30 times against the Broncos and we ran the ball as many times as we threw it against the 49ers in the Superbowl. The only game where the passing attack was dominant was the AFC Championship game in New England.

 

I just don't think a hurry up/shotgun based offense is what we do best and I don't think it's the style of offense that gives us the best chance to win in our division. That said, we don't have to throw the baby out with the bathwater and abandon it completely. We can keep the hurry up offense in our locker as a wrinkle and use it maybe one or two series per game to catch opposing defenses out. I see no reason why that couldn't work well for us.

 

I do think running the football well has to be the base of our offense though. A strong running game is a QB's best friend and it will help Joe Flacco significantly. Joe Flacco is a good QB but he's not Aaron Rodgers or Drew Brees. Putting him in the shotgun and letting him throw the ball 40 times a game is not going to be a winning formula for us, not in my opinion anyway. Another thing to consider is, when you're lining up in the shotgun all the time and throwing the ball more than you're running it, opposing defenses start playing pass first - run second defense. We don't have a particularly good set of wide receivers so that's not a great match up for us. The best thing we can do for our wide receivers is force opposing defenses into respecting the run and playing 8 man fronts. Once we get them into that mode of thinking then guys like Torrey Smith, Jacoby Jones and Marlon Brown will become much more dangerous against the single coverage they'll get.

 

All reasoned footballing arguments aside, I am just a signed up fan of running the football. I hate the modern day rules that allow the passing game to become so dominant. 45-41 games where the offenses march up and down the field scoring at will are boring to me. I love to see the physical elements of the game, running the football and hard hitting defense. I guess that's one of the reasons why I became a Ravens fan, we've excelled at those things for years and we have never apologised for being a team that played that way. I just don't want that to change I guess.

 

I want to see the run game become great like it was in the past and I love the play action but I also want to see Flacco play in a offense that he can excel in . I dont think the Ravens need to be like seattle offense or go back to that same formula of offense as if it was 2008 or 2009 .  Flacco has proven that he works best in the shot gun  and in a hurry up offense why take that away from him?

 

A good to great running attack is indeed been The Ravens bread and butter for a long time but  nothing is ever the same  for ever. I see no reason why the Ravens can't have a smash mouth rushing attack with play action along with giving Flacco the freedom to call his own plays, play in the shot gun, and  still use the no huddle. 

 

Like I said above, we don't have to completely take the shotgun/hurry up offense away from Flacco. We can keep it as a wrinkle and I think it can work well for us if we use it that way.

[Jokerraven]

For anyone who's interested here are some pretty good links that explain the basics of each system:

 

Air Coryell

 

Erhardt-Perkins

 

West Coast Offense

thanks I appreciate the info .

[admartian]

After reading more into it - I believe the Erhardt-Perkins is my favorite. Though do we necessarily have the coaches QB etc to run it? Is Joe a 'concept' guy? Are our WRs?

 

I think it's the way to go - to see more 'wrinkles' or a better path to seeing more change.

 

Also ONE GLARING note I've spotted: 

 

 

 

The most recent innovation to fall into New England’s Erhardt-Perkins framework is a commitment to the no-huddle. In 2012, the Patriots were the league leaders in total plays, first downs, points, and yards — all by a significant margin. Other teams have dabbled in the no-huddle, but they can’t commit to it like the Patriots can, for one simple reason: terminology. No team that uses the Coryell or true West Coast systems can adapt easily to a fully functional up-tempo no-huddle because, simply, they can’t communicate that efficiently.

And guess what (or one of) is Harbs'  biggest concerns and "to fix" this off season? 

 

That's probably one of the reasons we don't go to the no-huddle more. Fundamentally, we don't have the system - not necessarily the offense - to run it. 

 

Very interesting stuff, all this is, that's for sure.

[TXRavensFan]

thanks I appreciate the info .

Glad you found it useful.

[admartian]

Glad you found it useful.

Yeah thanks for that - that's where I got that quote. Also read up on it on wikipedia.

 

But thanks. Going through WCO and Coryell now.

[TXRavensFan]

After reading more into it - I believe the Erhardt-Perkins is my favorite. Though do we necessarily have the coaches QB etc to run it? Is Joe a 'concept' guy? Are our WRs?

I think it's the way to go - to see more 'wrinkles' or a better path to seeing more change.

Also ONE GLARING note I've spotted:

And guess what (or one of) is Harbs' biggest concerns and "to fix" this off season?

That's probably one of the reasons we don't go to the no-huddle more. Fundamentally, we don't have the system - not necessarily the offense - to run it.

Very interesting stuff, all this is, that's for sure.

That's one of the reasons I'd like to see them move to an E-P scheme as well, plus I think it fits our personnel best. Im mad the Patriots and Broncos (McDaniel's holdovers) are still playing. I'd like the front office to interview one of those guys for OC.

We could do worse than Shanahan, though.

[admartian]

That's one of the reasons I'd like to see them move to an E-P scheme as well, plus I think it fits our personnel best. Im mad the Patriots and Broncos (McDaniel's holdovers) are still playing. I'd like the front office to interview one of those guys for OC.

We could do worse than Shanahan, though.

Yeah I wouldn't mind Shannahan either. The hope there is for him to improve what we already run. Too bad on Norv, and I don't think we'll get Kubiak.

 

Any other coaches that are disciples of the Erhardt-Perkins?

[JoeyFlex5]

I wasn't liking the shanahan idea at first but that was because the shanahan name just makes me cringe, and I really didn't know his track record. but after a little reading up, one thing that reallyappeals to me about shanahan, is that he seems to change his schemes and gameplans to adapt to his personnel and get the most out of them, which is what I think has been missing from our team for years. im on board if they want to hire shanahan

[TXRavensFan]

Yeah I wouldn't mind Shannahan either. The hope there is for him to improve what we already run. Too bad on Norv, and I don't think we'll get Kubiak.

Any other coaches that are disciples of the Erhardt-Perkins?

Outside of New England and Denver, I'm not really sure. It seems like there are guys sprinkled throughout the league, but I couldn't tell you if there are any up and comers among them.

I really don't want the Ravens to wait on this process, but somebody like the Pats' receivers coach might be worth a look.

[Greatness]

As President of the "Go Deep" fan club, I'd love to stick with the Air Coryell. We can use this system without doing 9 routes all day long. As proven with our Superbowl  run.

[PurpleCityLights]

As President of the "Go Deep" fan club, I'd love to stick with the Air Coryell. We can use this system without doing 9 routes all day long. As proven with our Superbowl run.

Caldwell is gone which means John is going back to curl & wheel routes.....

[ravensfan520]

I would have said read option but didnt want to get in the Flacco debate. I like those types of offenses... they are exciting and always a threat for a guy to make a big play. Kind of like the hey diddle diddle... that was exciting... So far it has been hit or miss in the nfl but thats like any offense really gotta have the right weapons... and unless we wanted to make our franchise qb and a franchise bench warmer it wont happen here. But I like the offense that Cincy runs. They put the ball in playmakers hands and let them make plays. If they get a better qb they would be dangerous. We could do that... we have quick guys and and could draft a wr like evans and pair him up with Smith on the outside etc.

[CorvusCorax]

I'm no expert on offensive systems I'm afraid so I'm not sure which category my kind of offense would fall into. What I want to see us do next year is go back to being a team who first and foremost runs the ball well. That should be our bread and butter. Being a physically imposing team who can bully teams by running the ball effectively is who we have always been and who we should continue to be. It's in our DNA and it is the way to win games in the AFC North.

 

If we can get back to running the ball well then we can start using play action again and taking our shots down the field. This formula is perfect for Joe Flacco as he is one of the best deep ball throwers in the league.

 

What I absolutely do not want to see is a shotgun based offense where we are passing the ball 65-70% of the time and we're often in hurry up mode. I do not want us to try and be the Denver Broncos! We don't have the personnel for that and I personally just don't enjoy watching that kind of offense. The 49ers or Seahawks offense would be more along the lines of what I would like to see.

 

Let's get back to good old fashioned, rock 'em, sock 'em Ravens football.

 

We had some serious problems even just doing rock'em, sock'em "Ravens football".

 

I want to see a more productive offense and not one that 3 and outs consistently. It's frustrating to watch. Pounding the rock is great and all, much like having a stout defense but the game has evolved and the Ravens must be able to match up to evolving rules.

 

We can no longer just be a team of running the ball constantly, do a little passing, kick a field goal and have the defense turn it over for the offense. Times have changed. We must be able to put up 30+ points if we want to be a playoff team.

[raylewisrocks787668]

You'll have to build a time machine, since the advent of the zone blitz killed the run and shoot.

And good luck finding a safe (and cost effective) means of producing the 1.21 gigawatts of power that you'll also need.

Lol, I actually got tht reference

[Dfence4champs2052]

You'll have to build a time machine, since the advent of the zone blitz killed the run and shoot.

And good luck finding a safe (and cost effective) means of producing the 1.21 gigawatts of power that you'll also need.

Hey, it asked what I wanted....not how practical it was!

[5aiah]

Just get the personnel again like last year(playoffs) and come back with the Air Coryell better than ever. A power run game coming back will solve a lot.

 

http://baltimoresportsandlife.com/baltimore-ravens/makes-norv-turners-air-coryell-system-go/

[TXRavensFan]

Just get the personnel again like last year(playoffs) and come back with the Air Coryell better than ever. A power run game coming back will solve a lot.

http://baltimoresportsandlife.com/baltimore-ravens/makes-norv-turners-air-coryell-system-go/

Actually, the same author's take on the E-P system is why I would like to see the Ravens move in that direction:

http://baltimoresportsandlife.com/baltimore-ravens/erhardt-perkins-system-part-2/

[jazz1988]

Just get the personnel again like last year(playoffs) and come back with the Air Coryell better than ever. A power run game coming back will solve a lot.

 

http://baltimoresportsandlife.com/baltimore-ravens/makes-norv-turners-air-coryell-system-go/

 

 

 

 I find this part more telling "In my opinion, too many things have to go exactly to plan for this system to work. There seems to be little flexibility in a scheme like Air Coryell. Flexibility is essential in today’s NFL, as teams must adapt to numerous in-game and personnel situations without being predictable. One player goes down and the whole system crashes. We have seen that first hand"  .The writer basically gives me every reason to believe why The Ravens should move on towards a new offensive scheme and say good bye to Air Corydell for good.

[Cville-Raven]

Anything but air coryell

[DomMcRaven]

Whatever works best for Flacco. 

[5aiah]

Actually, the same author's take on the E-P system is why I would like to see the Ravens move in that direction:

http://baltimoresportsandlife.com/baltimore-ravens/erhardt-perkins-system-part-2/

Yeah I read it but disagree slightly because it's not as easy to learn for some and could possibly require more resources and attention then the coaches would like. I would be happy if we could make the transition to that system as a base in a short time but i rather us focus on getting the right players for the offense we have now and getting back to AFC Supremacy, maybe we do need to incorporate more concepts from other systems like WCO but I don't think we need to throw away something that just won us a Superbowl if it will take us a long period of time to set the system up successfully. In that article I see all the pros are spelled out but none of the Cons.  

 I find this part more telling "In my opinion, too many things have to go exactly to plan for this system to work. There seems to be little flexibility in a scheme like Air Coryell. Flexibility is essential in today’s NFL, as teams must adapt to numerous in-game and personnel situations without being predictable. One player goes down and the whole system crashes. We have seen that first hand"  .The writer basically gives me every reason to believe why The Ravens should move on towards a new offensive scheme and say good bye to Air Corydell for good.

One player didn't go down for Baltimore though, I would say 3(big pieces) did on the offense and that affected us the entire year greatly.

 

 

 

 

EDIT: I did some extra research on it and everywhere I read it mentions how not needing exceptional players at QB or WR is a strength but that's because it requires a great flexible offensive line with depth. The article was fun to read but a tad bit biased and I would like to learn more on the system.

[PerpetuallyBored74]

Yeah I read it but disagree slightly because it's not as easy to learn for some and could possibly require more resources and attention then the coaches would like. I would be happy if we could make the transition to that system as a base in a short time but i rather us focus on getting the right players for the offense we have now and getting back to AFC Supremacy, maybe we do need to incorporate more concepts from other systems like WCO but I don't think we need to throw away something that just won us a Superbowl if it will take us a long period of time to set the system up successfully. In that article I see all the pros are spelled out but none of the Cons.  

One player didn't go down for Baltimore though, I would say 3(big pieces) did on the offense and that affected us the entire year greatly.

 

The only time the AC has worked well for us was in the 2012 playoff run.

When we had a complete compliment of WRs & TEs and we had a stout O-line.

If you think you can count on having that year in/year out through injuries, and personnel changes due to free agency and the salary cap, then compare what happened to the Ravens with what happened to the Patriots this season when BOTH teams were decimated by injuries and loss of personnel.

 

The Ravens meandered their way though the year barely winning (and losing) most of their games before falling apart towards the end and falling just short.

The Patriots had a few bad games, but never had a bad stretch and STILL won their division and are now about to play the Broncos for the chance to go to the Super Bowl.

 

The reason? Because their system allows for greater flexibility and thus makes it easier for them to adjust.

Ours is the opposite, and in the SALARY CAP ERA, it should be obvious that greater flexibility and adaptability is a necessity.

[A Fish Called Yanda]

All depends on what our offensive personnel looks like next year tbh.  Need to be a threat on the short passes to get safeties to bite, and that will open up the long passing game more than this year.

 

Also need a competent offensive line and running game.  Without either of these, no scheme is going to work for us.

[PolishRifle]

All depends on what our offensive personnel looks like next year tbh.  Need to be a threat on the short passes to get safeties to bite, and that will open up the long passing game more than this year.

 

Also need a competent offensive line and running game.  Without either of these, no scheme is going to work for us.

 

Some schemes put more pressure on the OL than others coughAirCoryellcough.

 

I like the idea of short passes replacing hand offs to the RB for us like in the WestCoast offense. Rice is losing burst, but he is still a good pass catcher. There is no need to waste his talents trying to run him up the middle, where he rarely finds space unless the OL plays well, if we can just as well throw a short pass.

Those kind of plays were still some of our best, even in our lackluster last season.

[Gordo52]

Flacco gets paid 120. He should make up his own system and play book. AmIRight??

Naw but I'd like to believe he has a big say in what he wants the offense to look like and what personnel he'd like Oz to bring in. I'm afraid he just agrees with everything they ask him though lol

[Hraventyr]

I'm liking the idea of the E-P system.

It seems simple enough to learn and plenty flexible to change up at every snap.

The game has evolved beyond the coreyell system to be run without having top players in WR, O-line, RB and TE.

Plus it has become far too predictable.

[The Raven]

I don't see how you wouldn't want EP, lol. It's just got that perfect balance. It's versatile. 

[Mt. Crushmore]

Alright, who voted read-option?