Who is the "Leader" and Who is the "Pulse" of the Ravens?

[Ravensfan23]

Guys and girls just because you have a poor season doesn't mean you don't have leadership. It amazes me how people will take common phrases and give them a different meaning when it comes to sports or whatever they are talking about. A leader is a leader no matter what field.

 

A leader is defined by someone who leads. Period. It's not someone who always helps a team win, or someone who is always out in front when others are watching. It's the person(s) that good or bad they are standing up taking accountability for the actions. They are the guys that good or bad they are the ones leading the way. It doesn't matter if you're talking Sports or Business. Ray was a great leader no doubt, but for people to act like this season would have been different with him is crazy imo. Yes he might have rallied the defense to make a stop or two in the 4th quarter, but his leadership wouldn't have made the oline play better. His leadership or nobodies leadership for that matter would have make the offense adjust to the changes any faster then they did.

 

As for Flacco, for whatever reason people have this imagine of what they want a leader to look like, but it's not the look of a man that determines if he's a leader it's his actions. Flacco was definitely the leader of this team, from what I saw. With all the pressure on him after the contract, departure of Ray, Birk, Ed and Boldin to be that guy, he never wavered. He always stood up and took accountability for what the team was doing and his role in it beit good or bad. That's one of the most important characteristics of a leader. If you do research on any of the great leaders in history, you'll hear each of them talk about accountability. I personally feel Flacco is the clear cut leader on this team. 

 

As for a pulse, I don't think we have one right now. I think that was our biggest issue this past season. We didn't have that one guy we could look to when times got tough and know he'd either make a play or inspire a play to be made. This is what made Ray so great because he was a leader and the go to guy all in one. I always thought personally Ed Reed was a better leader then Ray, but Ray was the overall total package.

 

Going forward, I look at this team and look at who might possibly be the pulse I'm not sure who could be that guy. It's one of those things that is earned not given, so it should be fun to see who steps up.

[hn68wb4]

Watching an old clip of Eric Davis on the NFL Network speaking about the Ravens prior to this past season beginning.  He said that the leader of a team may not necessarily be the pulse of the team.  As a former 49er, he made a very interesting statement validating his point.  He said;

 

"Joe Montana was the leader but Ronnie Lott was the pulse of the 49ers!"

 

That got me thinking about the Ravens.  For me; Ray Lewis has been both the "leader" and the "pulse" of the Ravens organization the past 17 years.  Who would you say are those things now?

 

#Mili

how about Jimmy becoming the leader?

I absolutely loved it when he chewed Ihedigbo a new one after his hailmary tip, he emerged as a top tier CB this season and him and Webb are poised to be one of the best CB tandems in the NFL for years to come. But maybe its just wishful thinking that he can be the new "heart and soul" of the new era Ravens

what we tried this year as our leader and pulse failed, from what we were able to see, I don't think Flacco is vocal enough to be the leader, we need someone who isn't afraid to confront others who aren't getting it done, whether that leader is internal, FA, or draftee will be determined

I thought Suggs would be the guy to take the reigns and be our guy to lead us for the next few years, but again I didn't see him step up too much either. And much like Flacco, Daryl Smith just isn't vocal enough to be our leader and pulse, Smith made our transition away from Lewis so much easier on the field, but he isn't much of a motivator.

We need someone to lead by example like Ray did, theres no way we will find a guy as good a motivator as Ray was, he was the best of the best. But as he said on multiple occasions: he tried to lead by example on the field, this year Suggs was great for the first half of the season, but then he fell off, he can't be that guy if that is going to happen.

[wayne]

Guys and girls just because you have a poor season doesn't mean you don't have leadership. It amazes me how people will take common phrases and give them a different meaning when it comes to sports or whatever they are talking about. A leader is a leader no matter what field.

 

A leader is defined by someone who leads. Period. It's not someone who always helps a team win, or someone who is always out in front when others are watching. It's the person(s) that good or bad they are standing up taking accountability for the actions. They are the guys that good or bad they are the ones leading the way. It doesn't matter if you're talking Sports or Business. Ray was a great leader no doubt, but for people to act like this season would have been different with him is crazy imo. Yes he might have rallied the defense to make a stop or two in the 4th quarter, but his leadership wouldn't have made the oline play better. His leadership or nobodies leadership for that matter would have make the offense adjust to the changes any faster then they did.

 

As for Flacco, for whatever reason people have this imagine of what they want a leader to look like, but it's not the look of a man that determines if he's a leader it's his actions. Flacco was definitely the leader of this team, from what I saw. With all the pressure on him after the contract, departure of Ray, Birk, Ed and Boldin to be that guy, he never wavered. He always stood up and took accountability for what the team was doing and his role in it beit good or bad. That's one of the most important characteristics of a leader. If you do research on any of the great leaders in history, you'll hear each of them talk about accountability. I personally feel Flacco is the clear cut leader on this team. 

 

As for a pulse, I don't think we have one right now. I think that was our biggest issue this past season. We didn't have that one guy we could look to when times got tough and know he'd either make a play or inspire a play to be made. This is what made Ray so great because he was a leader and the go to guy all in one. I always thought personally Ed Reed was a better leader then Ray, but Ray was the overall total package.

 

Going forward, I look at this team and look at who might possibly be the pulse I'm not sure who could be that guy. It's one of those things that is earned not given, so it should be fun to see who steps up.

All we needed was one more win to get into the playoffs and with how you guys say that if the D made stops at the end, those are games we would have won...... Ray could have been a great tool into getting us in the playoffs b/c the playoffs is a different beast from the regular season. You have teams like us, Steelers, and Giants that look awful barely squeezing into the playoffs and they end up winning it all.

 

Also, those things you named just doesn't stamp Flacco as a leader, sorry. Everyone has their own different opinion on what a leader is and you can share some of the qualities of what a leader is but that doesn't necessarily make you one. Joe has to play more years in life without Ray to get a clear picture to opinionate rather he's a leader or not. I do agree that a leader has nothing to do with winning and losing.

[Ravensfan23]

All we needed was one more win to get into the playoffs and with how you guys say that if the D made stops at the end, those are games we would have won...... Ray could have been a great tool into getting us in the playoffs b/c the playoffs is a different beast from the regular season. You have teams like us, Steelers, and Giants that look awful barely squeezing into the playoffs and they end up winning it all.

 

Also, those things you named just doesn't stamp Flacco as a leader, sorry. Everyone has their own different opinion on what a leader is and you can share some of the qualities of what a leader is but that doesn't necessarily make you one. Joe has to play more years in life without Ray to get a clear picture to opinionate rather he's a leader or not. I do agree that a leader has nothing to do with winning and losing.

So it's impossible for one to be a leader immediately after their pervious leader leaves? That's crazy to me. Also nobody knows every quality or characteristics it takes to be a leader, while some of those qualities are common, but as you said everyone has their own opinions. So you can share qualities of a leader but clearly not be a leader? That's your opinoin so ok.

[OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL]

Its Boldin. Get him back if they lose today

[wayne]

So it's impossible for one to be a leader immediately after their pervious leader leaves? That's crazy to me. Also nobody knows every quality or characteristics it takes to be a leader, while some of those qualities are common, but as you said everyone has their own opinions. So you can share qualities of a leader but clearly not be a leader? That's your opinoin so ok.

Yes, someone could assume immediately after the previous leader leaves but that's something that had to be progressed in previous years leading up to that moment and honestly, I just don't see Flacco as taking the initiative to be that guy. You might argue the differ but I will ask you, where have you seen those leader qualities at? People say you can be a quiet leader and while that is true, you still going to have moments where you got to speak out to build the moral of the men that believe in you and ready to follow you to whatever ends......... two main traits of been a leader IMO. Believing in them and be ready to go through trials and tribulations with them.

[Ravensfan23]

Yes, someone could assume immediately after the previous leader leaves but that's something that had to be progressed in previous years leading up to that moment and honestly, I just don't see Flacco as taking the initiative to be that guy. You might argue the differ but I will ask you, where have you seen those leader qualities at? People say you can be a quiet leader and while that is true, you still going to have moments where you got to speak out to build the moral of the men that believe in you and ready to follow you to whatever ends......... two main traits of been a leader IMO. Believing in them and be ready to go through trials and tribulations with them.

If you are asking me personally what I saw in the leadership department from Flacco? When I was out at camp I saw Flacco taking his teammates to the side and correcting them on things they did wrong. I saw him firing into his oline for poor protection and then pulling them to the side after the ones came off the field to go over protections. All this was one practice.

You talk about speaking out in certain moments, I chanellege you to go back and watch every episode of 1Winnging Drive and see the moments Flacco will speak out to Torrey or Jacoby about running a route wrong, but then coach them up on how to run it better. Go back to the preseason when Doss ran the wrong route, look at the Sound Fx from the Jets game and listen to him speak out to Marlon Brown for running the wrong route. And there are other times that even was Ray was here Flacco spoke out and showed what you called a very important trait. Need we go back to America's Game when Flacco basically went toe to toe with Cam, fighting for the offense to be more aggressive, you don't think his teammates looked at that and said Flacco was willing to speak out to coaches for the betterment of the team?

You talk about being willing to follow a guy, go back and read the quotes from players about why they are so comfortable with the game on the line. By my count, Rice, Torrey,Jacoby, Pitta and Yanda all credited Joe for being the type of guy you want "leading" you in those situations because he's all about getting the job done and no moment is too big. These aren't just some rookies or young players who don't know anybody and just follows Joe cause he's the QB, these are leaders in their own right who praise Flacco for his leadership.

But as you said this is ultimately a issue on ones opinion. Imo Flacco is the clear leader, I feel these examples should go a long way to proving it, you clearly feel Flacco isn't a leader yet and needs more seasoning it seems.

[PoeDinkum]

Obviously we lacked the "will to finish" and knock an AFC WC foe for a loop today, and frankly I saw no one really upset or fired up about playing the Chargers tough today...which leads me to bring up this topic.

 

I DO believe there is something to be said for a team with veterans who shepard the young players to victory, especially when we have such a meaningful stretch coming up.

 

Curious who you all see as either a leader or a pulse at this point in the season that would prevent what we saw today.

 

I used to believe Flacco's quiet leadership would get it done, or that SIzzle would step up, but I just don't see it this year.

 

Thoughts?

[ravensnick]

Steve is the vocal leader and Joe is the more quiet guy that directs us towards victory on O. Jimmy Smith and Terrell Suggs are the more vocal leaders on the D and Doom and Daryl are the more quiet veterans that help us out. 

[ratedr]

Obviously we lacked the "will to finish" and knock an AFC WC foe for a loop today, and frankly I saw no one really upset or fired up about playing the Chargers tough today...which leads me to bring up this topic.

I DO believe there is something to be said for a team with veterans who shepard the young players to victory, especially when we have such a meaningful stretch coming up.

Curious who you all see as either a leader or a pulse at this point in the season that would prevent what we saw today.

I used to believe Flacco's quiet leadership would get it done, or that SIzzle would step up, but I just don't see it this year.

Thoughts?

Leadership is fine. We need good players.

[ravensnick]

Leadership is fine. We need good players.

Who is bad besides the secondary? Do you watch any of the other NFL games? You can't have HoFs starting a every position and Pro Bowlers backing them up.

[ratedr]

Who is bad besides the secondary? Do you watch any of the other NFL games? You can't have HoFs starting a every position and Pro Bowlers backing them up.

Unfortunately this is the new NFL where the pass game is king, so you can't expect to win against any good teams on a consistent basis without a decent secondary. You don't need pro bowlers. You just need serviceable players a la Cary Williams. We don't have that.

[Alaska Alaska!]

Unfortunately this is the new NFL where the pass game is king, so you can't expect to win against any good teams on a consistent basis without a decent secondary. You don't need pro bowlers. You just need serviceable players a la Cary Williams. We don't have that.

Honestly we do have that.  It just turns out that both players are injured

[ravensnick]

Unfortunately this is the new NFL where the pass game is king, so you can't expect to win against any good teams on a consistent basis without a decent secondary. You don't need pro bowlers. You just need serviceable players a la Cary Williams. We don't have that.

True, but we have our best two CBs on IR.

[ratedr]

True, but we have our best two CBs on IR.

Honestly we do have that. It just turns out that both players are injured

Oh I agree that we have that in theory. But we don't have it right now.

[3-4ravdef509]

While an interesting subject, I fail to see how even Ray Lewis still being here would have resulted in the secondary not playing like hot garbage today...there weren't really any busted coverages, just people getting flat out beat.

[K-Dog]

Leadership is fine. We need good players.

THIS.

 

Today was not about leadership it was about skill, execution, and discipline.  Pretty much every one was missing one or more of these traits at some points in time today.

[Ravenslifer]

Never understood this whole "leaders make their guys better" stuff.  Sizzle put it best - "there's getting it done, and there's not getting it done."  Leadership can't make a guy hang on to a sure TD pass.  A guy can fire guys up all he wants, it doesn't matter if they take bad angles, can't cover, can't tackle, can't get penetration, can't pass or run block, drop passes, etc.  It all comes down to fundamentals and execution to me, and today, there were examples on both sides of the ball of where we failed in that regard, which ultimately cost us the game.

[ravensnick]

Never understood this whole "leaders make their guys better" stuff.  Sizzle put it best - "there's getting it done, and there's not getting it done."  Leadership can't make a guy hang on to a sure TD pass.  A guy can fire guys up all he wants, it doesn't matter if they take bad angles, can't cover, can't tackle, can't get penetration, can't pass or run block, drop passes, etc.  It all comes down to fundamentals and execution to me, and today, there were examples on both sides of the ball of where we failed in that regard, which ultimately cost us the game.

Like my high school coach liked to say, "having those rah-rah guys is nice, but that rah-rah stuff ain't gonna change the play on the field. It ain't gonna make you tackle better, ain't gonna pick off a pass, or catch the ball better."

[MrPlankton]

True, but we have our best two CBs on IR.

I am guessing the other guy is Aaron Ross? 

[757RavensFan]

I already KNOW he's gone and not coming back, but yesterday's game really could have used Anquan Boldin to charge up the guys on the sideline. 

[Militant X 1]

Never understood this whole "leaders make their guys better" stuff.  Sizzle put it best - "there's getting it done, and there's not getting it done."  Leadership can't make a guy hang on to a sure TD pass.  A guy can fire guys up all he wants, it doesn't matter if they take bad angles, can't cover, can't tackle, can't get penetration, can't pass or run block, drop passes, etc.  It all comes down to fundamentals and execution to me, and today, there were examples on both sides of the ball of where we failed in that regard, which ultimately cost us the game.

 

Like my high school coach liked to say, "having those rah-rah guys is nice, but that rah-rah stuff ain't gonna change the play on the field. It ain't gonna make you tackle better, ain't gonna pick off a pass, or catch the ball better."

 

I'm surprise to see this thread re-surface.  Lol!

 

In response to both of you guys though....to me, leadership on the field is more than just "rah-rah" or "firing" guys up in a pregame speech.  That's a small part of preparing for battle!  However, Ray Lewis for example; he led by example-on the field in his gameplay as well as giving great motivational speeches to his team.  All of that he said to the team...was a part of who he is!  Either you have that or you don't! 

 

I absolutely loved his approach to the game and how he mentally overcame obstacles and adversity that each game and opponent may have presented.  He was a mentor and a teacher to the players and those cats wanted to play with him and for him.  Then Ed Reed came along with the same mentality!  Did they win every game?  Of course not!  But, there was no doubt that they were..."Player-Coaches" and because they elevated their gameplay to a higher level; it made their teammates want to do the same at their positions!

[Ravenseconbeast]

I don't agree w/ few of you folks here.  How is Flacco a leader or Suggs a pulse right now?  One of the major issue last year and this year(seeing how it is so far), no one knows how to step up and change the coarse of this team.   I see Tom Brady as a leader of his team.  His word carries weight on the team.  Just like whenever Ray Lewis would have something to say, guys will shut up and listen. Young guys see them and point to them when chips are down.

 

I don't see Joe Flacco or Suggs as a leader of his team.   Is Joe a franchise QB in the NFL? Yes, but is he the 'pulse and the leader' of his team?  No.   Not even close.  His words doesn't do squat what the guys will do or don't do.    That kind of player are very few and far between, and Flacco or Suggs( or Ngata) isn't one of them right now.     TBH they should be those guys. 
 

We need to win out from here on out starting from Miami game or we are done.

 

If we really had guys that would slap the mental slump, you should be able to see it next week.  

 

[ratedr]

We're talking about Joe and Suggs not being leaders when we have the 31st ranked pass defense in the league and we're in pace to have the worst pass defense in franchise history.

http://wnst.net/baltimore-ravens/ravens-pass-defense-on-pace-to-be-worst-in-franchise-history/

Can someone tell me how "leadership" will fix that? Please?

[Ravenslifer]

I'm surprise to see this thread re-surface.  Lol!

 

In response to both of you guys though....to me, leadership on the field is more than just "rah-rah" or "firing" guys up in a pregame speech.  That's a small part of preparing for battle!  However, Ray Lewis for example; he led by example-on the field in his gameplay as well as giving great motivational speeches to his team.  All of that he said to the team...was a part of who he is!  Either you have that or you don't! 

 

I absolutely loved his approach to the game and how he mentally overcame obstacles and adversity that each game and opponent may have presented.  He was a mentor and a teacher to the players and those cats wanted to play with him and for him.  Then Ed Reed came along with the same mentality!  Did they win every game?  Of course not!  But, there was no doubt that they were..."Player-Coaches" and because they elevated their gameplay to a higher level; it made their teammates want to do the same at their positions!

 

Totally agree - Nobody followed Ray Lewis because of the stuff he said on camera - they followed him because he showed, by example, that every day is an opportunity for you to work hard and get better, and if you commit yourself, you have a chance to be one of the all time greats.  Doesn't change the fact that you can prepare as hard as you want, it comes down to making the plays you need to almost all the time.  Did Ray make every play every time, no, but he was as fundamentally sound and as savvy a student of the game as you'll ever see.  But he, or anybody else in history, couldn't MAKE a player play better, that player has the responsibility to do that himself.  Teaching a mindset is one thing, but we win because of execution on the field, and lose because we don't execute.  

[codizzle]

We're talking about Joe and Suggs not being leaders when we have the 31st ranked pass defense in the league and we're in pace to have the worst pass defense in franchise history.

http://wnst.net/baltimore-ravens/ravens-pass-defense-on-pace-to-be-worst-in-franchise-history/

Can someone tell me how "leadership" will fix that? Please?

Ed reed ain't walking through that door

[Bltravens]

Totally agree - Nobody followed Ray Lewis because of the stuff he said on camera - they followed him because he showed, by example, that every day is an opportunity for you to work hard and get better, and if you commit yourself, you have a chance to be one of the all time greats.  Doesn't change the fact that you can prepare as hard as you want, it comes down to making the plays you need to almost all the time.  Did Ray make every play every time, no, but he was as fundamentally sound and as savvy a student of the game as you'll ever see.  But he, or anybody else in history, couldn't MAKE a player play better, that player has the responsibility to do that himself.  Teaching a mindset is one thing, but we win because of execution on the field, and lose because we don't execute.  

While its true Ray didn't make anyone literally better, he did give the illusion that guys were better than they were because he cleaned up so many mistakes and made sure guys knew what they were doing each time.  Especially the rotation of guys that were beside him for so many years.  

[PoeDinkum]

It is so simplistic to say that talent alone wins championships. Execution boils down to preparation, mental acuity, physicality in strength and dexterity, AND yes Virginia, MOTIVATION. A man motivated can move mountains. Sure Ray did not ALWAYS motivate guys with his inspirational speeches, BUT both he and Ed refer to how they would visit guys in the locker room to check-in...take their pulse...and find out where he at to put him in the best situation to succeed.

 

People are just flat out underthinking this IF they boil it down to talk is cheap and end it there.

 

No player on this team takes responsibility for any of this...they just keep repeating the same ol' BS line that a man have to look himself in the mirror. They can keep repeating it too if they like being a .500 team.

[ravensnick]

I'm surprise to see this thread re-surface.  Lol!

 

In response to both of you guys though....to me, leadership on the field is more than just "rah-rah" or "firing" guys up in a pregame speech.  That's a small part of preparing for battle!  However, Ray Lewis for example; he led by example-on the field in his gameplay as well as giving great motivational speeches to his team.  All of that he said to the team...was a part of who he is!  Either you have that or you don't! 

 

I absolutely loved his approach to the game and how he mentally overcame obstacles and adversity that each game and opponent may have presented.  He was a mentor and a teacher to the players and those cats wanted to play with him and for him.  Then Ed Reed came along with the same mentality!  Did they win every game?  Of course not!  But, there was no doubt that they were..."Player-Coaches" and because they elevated their gameplay to a higher level; it made their teammates want to do the same at their positions!

True leadership isn't the "rah-rah" stuff. It's studying and being more prepared that anyone else. Then you can "coach" you fellow team mates by example and make everyone better.  That's why they were "player coaches." They literally watched so much film they knew everything about every opponent. Not because they could give a good "rah-rah" pregame speech.

[ravensnick]

I am guessing the other guy is Aaron Ross? 

Asa Jackson