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Art Modell Excluded From HOF Again


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#1 edthehead

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 09:11 AM

Well ,, we as ravens fans are use to the media in all their bias comments, we even tolerated them not letting MR.ART MODELL in the H.O.F within his initial 5 years,but all these years later to continue to despise him is wrong. Who are the people that vote and the commissioner does he have any say (I know he don't) The man is truly a pioneer in Football . What can we as fans do.      


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#2 Willbacker

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 09:28 AM

Not a surprize. Too many sportswriters are always gonna drag him down just cuz he moved the Browns to Balt. One move trumps all the pioneeering. Smh.


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#3 TSizzle00

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 09:58 AM

He moved a loser Franchise and made it a winning won. I could understand if the Browns were like 5 time SB champs and all of that was wiped away but they had 0 SBs before the move and 0 after.


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#4 BOLDnPurPnBlacK

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 10:08 AM

He moved a loser Franchise and made it a winning won. I could understand if the Browns were like 5 time SB champs and all of that was wiped away but they had 0 SBs before the move and 0 after.

Its because they were one of the original franchises... Dating back to the late 19th century, early 20th.

And they were from one of the birthplaces of professional football (Ohio). That's a whole lot of history to change.

But I don't mind. I love my Ravens.
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#5 ravensdfan

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 10:26 AM

As I put on someone's status who commented on this:

 

The city of Cleveland, the Browns' organization and fans continue to reap the karmic rewards of this vendetta. It really is this one sportswriter guy who makes a case before the voters not to include Modell.

 

I really don't want to hear the historic franchise crap - they are still the Cleveland Browns residing in the city of Cleveland with all their history intact within the franchise & city.

 

Davis moved the Raiders how many times?


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#6 TDubbs

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 10:40 AM

It's getting beyond ridiculous, to be honest. Could you write the history of the NFL without talking about Art Modell? No! It's not his fault Cleveland would't help in building a new stadium, so he made the business decision he had to make to bring them here. End of. 


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#7 NaveSenrag

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 10:46 AM

He moved a loser Franchise and made it a winning won. I could understand if the Browns were like 5 time SB champs and all of that was wiped away but they had 0 SBs before the move and 0 after.

Actually, the Browns were one of the football's most successful teams for a while. During their four years in the AAFC, they won every single championship,  and were one of only three AAFC teams to be admitted to the original NFL, where they won an additional 4 championships in their first 15 years in the league.

 

You also neglect to mention that that "Loser Franchise" was one that he was responsible for maintaining, and one with which he had a very hands on approach. It isn't like he simply periodically checked up on the team and let the coaches do everything. In fact, the franchise didn't manage a winning record until Modell sold the majority share to Mr. Biscotti.

 

 

It's getting beyond ridiculous, to be honest. Could you write the history of the NFL without talking about Art Modell? No! It's not his fault Cleveland would't help in building a new stadium, so he made the business decision he had to make to bring them here. End of. 

 

Modell announced on November 6, 1995, that he had signed a deal to relocate the Browns to Baltimore in 1996—a move which would return the NFL to Baltimore for the first time since the Colts relocated to Indianapolis after the 1983 season. The very next day, on November 7, 1995, Cleveland voters overwhelmingly approved an issue that had been placed on the ballot at Modell's request, before he made his decision to move the franchise, which provided $175 million in tax dollars to refurbish the outmoded and declining Cleveland Municipal Stadium.

 

 

That's from Wikipedia. Where's your source for Clevelanders not wanting to build him a new stadium?

 

Honestly, I'm grateful he brought us the Baltimore Ravens, but the cult around Modell is simply baffling to me.


Edited by NaveSenrag, 10 January 2014 - 10:49 AM.

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#8 TXRavensFan

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 11:35 AM

Actually, the Browns were one of the football's most successful teams for a while. During their four years in the AAFC, they won every single championship, and were one of only three AAFC teams to be admitted to the original NFL, where they won an additional 4 championships in their first 15 years in the league.

You also neglect to mention that that "Loser Franchise" was one that he was responsible for maintaining, and one with which he had a very hands on approach. It isn't like he simply periodically checked up on the team and let the coaches do everything. In fact, the franchise didn't manage a winning record until Modell sold the majority share to Mr. Biscotti.

I'm not sure where your idea that Modell didn't manage a winning record until he sold the majority stake to Bisciotti:

During Modell's 35 seasons as team owner the Browns qualified for the postseason 17 times, winning 11 division titles and the NFL championship in 1964. The team's overall regular season record during Modell's tenure was 252–233–10, (winning percentage .519), and its post-season record was 7 wins against 14 losses (winning percentage .333).



That's from Wikipedia. Where's your source for Clevelanders not wanting to build him a new stadium?

Honestly, I'm grateful he brought us the Baltimore Ravens, but the cult around Modell is simply baffling to me.

That wiki quote indicates that the funding was for renovations, not a new stadium. Model had indicated for years that they needed a new stadium, but the city wouldn't budge. Instead , they built a new stadium for the Indians (which reduced his income even more), not to mention various other projects including the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame. It was too little too late. Remember Modell wasn't a multi-millionaire business man the owned the Browns, they were his only source of income.

Further, I don't see a cult around Modell, but for people like me who grew up with the Colts, we're extremely grateful to him for bringing football back to Baltimore. Most of us just don't understand how a guy like Al Davis can be in the Hall, but not Modell...other than Tony Grossi's personal vendetta.
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#9 TSizzle00

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 11:36 AM

Actually, the Browns were one of the football's most successful teams for a while. During their four years in the AAFC, they won every single championship,  and were one of only three AAFC teams to be admitted to the original NFL, where they won an additional 4 championships in their first 15 years in the league.

 

You also neglect to mention that that "Loser Franchise" was one that he was responsible for maintaining, and one with which he had a very hands on approach. It isn't like he simply periodically checked up on the team and let the coaches do everything. In fact, the franchise didn't manage a winning record until Modell sold the majority share to Mr. Biscotti.

 

 

 

 

That's from Wikipedia. Where's your source for Clevelanders not wanting to build him a new stadium?

 

Honestly, I'm grateful he brought us the Baltimore Ravens, but the cult around Modell is simply baffling to me.

 

When the Browns moved their records stayed behind right? All those championships still exist for them that was not the case for the Colts here if I'm correct. Cleveland lost their team for a couple years. The Ravens do not have credits for their wins, championships and records.

 

Im just tired of the Model hating is all.


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#10 NaveSenrag

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 01:34 PM

I'm not sure where your idea that Modell didn't manage a winning record until he sold the majority stake to Bisciotti:

I meant after moving the team to Baltimore. The Browns were a very good team while in Cleveand prior to the year before the move, and were even favorites to win the 1995 Superbowl when the season started.

 

 

That wiki quote indicates that the funding was for renovations, not a new stadium. Model had indicated for years that they needed a new stadium, but the city wouldn't budge. Instead , they built a new stadium for the Indians (which reduced his income even more), not to mention various other projects including the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame. It was too little too late. Remember Modell wasn't a multi-millionaire business man the owned the Browns, they were his only source of income.

Further, I don't see a cult around Modell, but for people like me who grew up with the Colts, we're extremely grateful to him for bringing football back to Baltimore. Most of us just don't understand how a guy like Al Davis can be in the Hall, but not Modell...other than Tony Grossi's personal vendetta.

There are conflicting stories on whether or not Modell was offered a new stadium, but considering there is no evidence either way, I'm not going to get into an argument about it.

 

The Indians got a new stadium because Modell refused to share any revenue that he got from luxury suites that were used during Indians baseball games with them, and the owner of the Indians threatened to leave the city. If Modell wanted them to stay, he could have negotiated an agreement with the Indians that didn't shortchange them.

 

I can understand wanting a new stadium, but to convince lawmakers to give the people of Cleveland the opportunity to send you their tax money because your business isn't making enough, and then not only negotiate to move the team before finding out the outcome, but also announce the move the day before the vote was the kind of move I would expect from a cartoon villain, not a model of NFL ownership.

 

I don't think Al Davis deserves to be in the Hall, but neither do I think Modell deserves to get in either. Monday Night Football is certainly very important, and it's great that he was instrumental in bringing it about, but I simply don't think it outweighs his mistakes and the move from Cleveland.


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#11 Jokerraven

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 04:21 PM

When the Browns moved their records stayed behind right? All those championships still exist for them that was not the case for the Colts here if I'm correct. Cleveland lost their team for a couple years. The Ravens do not have credits for their wins, championships and records.

 

Im just tired of the Model hating is all.

 

 

I haven't  been a football fan for years and years  so I have a question. why was it ok for the Colts to leave in the dead of night and its was ok with the nfl but it wasn't ok for Modell to move the browns ? is it the same thing or have I missed something in translation?

 

 

the current brown's  stadium is horrible not to denigrate that club or its fans but big difference in ours and theres


Edited by Jokerraven, 10 January 2014 - 04:23 PM.

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#12 Omerta

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 04:32 PM

I haven't  been a football fan for years and years  so I have a question. why was it ok for the Colts to leave in the dead of night and its was ok with the nfl but it wasn't ok for Modell to move the browns ? is it the same thing or have I missed something in translation?
 
 
the current brown's  stadium is horrible not to denigrate that club or its fans but big difference in ours and theres


Well that is the interesting question. We know how people feel about Modell, that said when it is time for consideration how well we feel about Irsay getting in ? I would personally hate out and despise home as a person and individual. I hate that Modell isn't in, but I know why the rest of the league hates it as well.
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#13 Militant X 1

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 04:45 PM

Not a surprize. Too many sportswriters are always gonna drag him down just cuz he moved the Browns to Balt. One move trumps all the pioneeering. Smh.

And the Colts left Baltimore for Indianapolis is the dead of night!  What's the difference?  Art is the man and should be honored as such!

 

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#14 5aiah

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 04:48 PM

I meant after moving the team to Baltimore. The Browns were a very good team while in Cleveand prior to the year before the move, and were even favorites to win the 1995 Superbowl when the season started.

 

There are conflicting stories on whether or not Modell was offered a new stadium, but considering there is no evidence either way, I'm not going to get into an argument about it.

 

The Indians got a new stadium because Modell refused to share any revenue that he got from luxury suites that were used during Indians baseball games with them, and the owner of the Indians threatened to leave the city. If Modell wanted them to stay, he could have negotiated an agreement with the Indians that didn't shortchange them.

 

I can understand wanting a new stadium, but to convince lawmakers to give the people of Cleveland the opportunity to send you their tax money because your business isn't making enough, and then not only negotiate to move the team before finding out the outcome, but also announce the move the day before the vote was the kind of move I would expect from a cartoon villain, not a model of NFL ownership.

 

I don't think Al Davis deserves to be in the Hall, but neither do I think Modell deserves to get in either. Monday Night Football is certainly very important, and it's great that he was instrumental in bringing it about, but I simply don't think it outweighs his mistakes and the move from Cleveland.

Thank you for objective information. I don't ever expect to learn the whole story but this clears up a bit because I am continually being misinformed by other Baltimorean who would rather cover up Modell's faults. I feel sorry for the city of Cleveland and their franchise,especially given our success, but hey man we needed a team. I don't know what I would do without my Ravens but that doesn't mean I don't want to know the dirty truth of how they got here. 


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#15 edthehead

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 06:43 PM

I understand the city is upset, But the man himself means so much to football and to continuously deny him even in the afterlife they will not let him in,,FLAT OUT WRONG, Is it anyway to possibly override their decision    


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#16 NaveSenrag

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 06:54 PM

I haven't  been a football fan for years and years  so I have a question. why was it ok for the Colts to leave in the dead of night and its was ok with the nfl but it wasn't ok for Modell to move the browns ? is it the same thing or have I missed something in translation?

 

 

the current brown's  stadium is horrible not to denigrate that club or its fans but big difference in ours and theres

With the Browns, whether Modell was refused the stadium he wanted or refused an offer for is unknown, and who you choose to believe depends solely on who you think is more trustworthy. What is known is that at Modell's urging, the people of Cleveland were given the opportunity to vote to give him money to renovate his existing stadium and he left the city for Baltimore the day before the vote after giving no indication that he was planning a move. He uprooted a successful team with a rich history and deserted a devoted fanbase.

 

The Colts on the other hand, were in a much more complicated situation where they were victimized to a much greater extent by Baltimore and Maryland as a whole. The Colt's previous owner had wanted a new stadium as far back as 1969 and when the city decided it was going to increase the fees he paid for rent instead, he decided he wanted to leave. Luckily for Baltimore, Irsay was able to work out a deal with the guy so Irsay would get the Colts in Baltimore, and the original owner would get the Rams out in LA.

 

In order to get Irsay to buy the Colts, Baltimore promised they'd build a new stadium to accommodate all of Baltimore's sports teams. Of course, that stadium never actually happened because it was shot down by the Maryland legislature, and when it didn't happen the Orioles' owner was ready to leave and Irsay was in favor of putting his faith in the people of Baltimore. I'm sure he came to regret his optimism when the people of Baltimore passed an amendment to the city charter that stated that city funds would never be used to fund a stadium other than Memorial Stadium during elections later that year. Then Irsay asked for 25 million dollars to renovate Memorial Stadium and the Maryland legislature returned a counter offer that was 2 million dollars fewer and required both the Colts and Orioles so lease the stadium long term.

 

Despite such a blatant slap in the face, it was another five years (including a stretch of three straight playoff trips) with no indication that he would get a new stadium before Irsay started taking any real interest in shopping around for a new home city. In 1984, Baltimore Mayor finally announced that there wouldn't be a new stadium for the Colts unless Irsay was willing to foot the entire bill, and Irsay decided to go forward with plans to move to either Pheonix or Indianapolis. In response, the Maryland Senate passed a bill that would have seized the Colts from Irsay via eminent domain and the House of Delegates planned to consider it the following day. That convinced Phoenix to give up on the Colts, but Indianapolis had already built a football stadium, and the mayor was able to convince an Indianapolis based shipping company to get the Colts and all of their equipment and belongings out of Baltimore and into Indy the same day. It should be noted that the House of Delegates did in fact pass the bill the next day.

 

If you don't want to read the whole post, what it basically boils down to is that Irsay waited for a new stadium for the 25 years he was in Baltimore and never got it, couldn't even manage to get money for renovations from, and when he finally tried to move the team to somewhere that would build him a stadium, the city tried to steal his team from him, whereas Modell arguably had support for a stadium and had overwhelming support for renovation money.

 

That's why many in football media and in the NFL feel more strongly about Modell's move than about Irsay's.


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#17 Jokerraven

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 07:10 PM

With the Browns, whether Modell was refused the stadium he wanted or refused an offer for is unknown, and who you choose to believe depends solely on who you think is more trustworthy. What is known is that at Modell's urging, the people of Cleveland were given the opportunity to vote to give him money to renovate his existing stadium and he left the city for Baltimore the day before the vote after giving no indication that he was planning a move. He uprooted a successful team with a rich history and deserted a devoted fanbase.

 

The Colts on the other hand, were in a much more complicated situation where they were victimized to a much greater extent by Baltimore and Maryland as a whole. The Colt's previous owner had wanted a new stadium as far back as 1969 and when the city decided it was going to increase the fees he paid for rent instead, he decided he wanted to leave. Luckily for Baltimore, Irsay was able to work out a deal with the guy so Irsay would get the Colts in Baltimore, and the original owner would get the Rams out in LA.

 

In order to get Irsay to buy the Colts, Baltimore promised they'd build a new stadium to accommodate all of Baltimore's sports teams. Of course, that stadium never actually happened because it was shot down by the Maryland legislature, and when it didn't happen the Orioles' owner was ready to leave and Irsay was in favor of putting his faith in the people of Baltimore. I'm sure he came to regret his optimism when the people of Baltimore passed an amendment to the city charter that stated that city funds would never be used to fund a stadium other than Memorial Stadium during elections later that year. Then Irsay asked for 25 million dollars to renovate Memorial Stadium and the Maryland legislature returned a counter offer that was 2 million dollars fewer and required both the Colts and Orioles so lease the stadium long term.

 

Despite such a blatant slap in the face, it was another five years (including a stretch of three straight playoff trips) with no indication that he would get a new stadium before Irsay started taking any real interest in shopping around for a new home city. In 1984, Baltimore Mayor finally announced that there wouldn't be a new stadium for the Colts unless Irsay was willing to foot the entire bill, and Irsay decided to go forward with plans to move to either Pheonix or Indianapolis. In response, the Maryland Senate passed a bill that would have seized the Colts from Irsay via eminent domain and the House of Delegates planned to consider it the following day. That convinced Phoenix to give up on the Colts, but Indianapolis had already built a football stadium, and the mayor was able to convince an Indianapolis based shipping company to get the Colts and all of their equipment and belongings out of Baltimore and into Indy the same day. It should be noted that the House of Delegates did in fact pass the bill the next day.

 

If you don't want to read the whole post, what it basically boils down to is that Irsay waited for a new stadium for the 25 years he was in Baltimore and never got it, couldn't even manage to get money for renovations from, and when he finally tried to move the team to somewhere that would build him a stadium, the city tried to steal his team from him, whereas Modell arguably had support for a stadium and had overwhelming support for renovation money.

 

That's why many in football media and in the NFL feel more strongly about Modell's move than about Irsay's.

thanks for taking the time to explain it to me I knew there was more then what I knew of it  nothing is ever cut and dry.I read the entire post. I feel for both fanbases the browns and the colts . if the ravens leave it would rip my heart out and tear it into little pieces .my father remains a colt fan never waivered even after they left , his opinion was Baltimore ran them off . so I left it never asked .


Edited by Jokerraven, 10 January 2014 - 07:11 PM.

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#18 berad

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 07:10 PM

Saint Irsay?
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#19 NaveSenrag

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 07:48 PM

Saint Irsay?

If you'd like to present an alternate account that you think is appropriately demonizing, feel free to do so.

 

 

 

 

thanks for taking the time to explain it to me I knew there was more then what I knew of it  nothing is ever cut and dry.I read the entire post. I feel for both fanbases the browns and the colts . if the ravens leave it would rip my heart out and tear it into little pieces .my father remains a colt fan never waivered even after they left , his opinion was Baltimore ran them off . so I left it never asked .

It's interesting that he stayed a Colts fan. I heard a lot of people in Maryland shifted loyalty to the Redskins and Steelers. I think Baltimore and Maryland as a whole really screwed the pooch with the way they handled the Colts, but at the least, the backlash against the government resulted in a lot more protections being put in place for sports teams that the Ravens now benefit from.


Edited by NaveSenrag, 10 January 2014 - 07:54 PM.

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#20 flynismo

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 08:29 PM

If Modell's actions negate his accomplishments, then I don't want to hear about Belichick and Kraft being future HOF.
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