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OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL

Do you think John Harbaugh can fix the offense by keeping Juan Castillo?

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I think the damage is done. Now it appears the good coaches are getting gone for his screw up. It means lost respect from players. His respect dwindled by getting rid of guys who were outspoken already.

So do you think he can right this offensive ship, or is his ship sinking even further now?

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I doubt Harbaugh has lost respect from his players and I doubt that Castillo will ruin the offense. In my opinion the direction of the offense shall be determine by who the offense coordinator will be .

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I don't think damage has been done...  Yeah, players were let go... and some might think they were for credible reasons.  It's hard for us fans to realize what's going on behind closed doors...the instability in the locker room.  to measure the disruption that was created...  simply because we had an 8-8 season, doesn't mean that the instability or dissension was worst this year.  To say that lousy play is because of this...  That would be speculation.

 

I'm not going to hold the coaches liable in this context.  I believe that Ed Reed was let go due to a couple of reasons...  his media flubs, his attacks on other players in the public forum, his injuries, the probable surgery, and the possiblity of his not coming back from the injury.  Pollard was a HUGE distraction, and it hasn't only been with the Ravens.  The guy played for 4 teams in 5 years...  That should tell you something.  The list of players goes on... Ellerbe was bought by Miami, Kruger by the Browns, etc.  I think there is much more to this than just "coaches losing players in the locker room this year". The players didn't earn their paychecks this year.  Very few of them anyway.

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I don't think damage has been done...  Yeah, players were let go... and some might think they were for credible reasons.  It's hard for us fans to realize what's going on behind closed doors...the instability in the locker room.  to measure the disruption that was created...  simply because we had an 8-8 season, doesn't mean that the instability or dissension was worst this year.  To say that lousy play is because of this...  That would be speculation.

 

I'm not going to hold the coaches liable in this context.  I believe that Ed Reed was let go due to a couple of reasons...  his media flubs, his attacks on other players in the public forum, his injuries, the probable surgery, and the possiblity of his not coming back from the injury.  Pollard was a HUGE distraction, and it hasn't only been with the Ravens.  The guy played for 4 teams in 5 years...  That should tell you something.  The list of players goes on... Ellerbe was bought by Miami, Kruger by the Browns, etc.  I think there is much more to this than just "coaches losing players in the locker room this year". The players didn't earn their paychecks this year.  Very few of them anyway.

Yeah but..........By keeping Castillo can he fix the offense?

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Yeah but..........By keeping Castillo can he fix the offense?

Maybe with other changes, yes, there will be improvement...  I am a firm believer in "you don't throw the baby out with the bathwater."  I am with Bisciotti... Give these guys a chance to make corrections. You make the changes that these guys within your coaching staff inside the organization believes is necessary; then if it doesn't correct things, that's when you get drastic.

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Maybe with other changes, yes, there will be improvement...  I am a firm believer in "you don't throw the baby out with the bathwater."  I am with Bisciotti... Give these guys a chance to make corrections. You make the changes that these guys within your coaching staff inside the organization believes is necessary; then if it doesn't correct things, that's when you get drastic.

I dint think he can because there is no plan on offense. Just basic vanilla with no ability to design plays for your playmakers or ability to counter schemes when the opposing defenses stop what you are trying to do

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The  offense actually was showing promise toward the end of the season. but to answer your question if the playbook changes yes I think the offense can improve. same playbook not using our recievers creatively, and not helping joe get the ball out fast short routes slants,,etc. then no I think we have a repeat of this year.

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The  offense actually was showing promise toward the end of the season. but to answer your question if the playbook changes yes I think the offense can improve. same playbook not using our recievers creatively, and not helping joe get the ball out fast short routes slants,,etc. then no I think we have a repeat of this year.[/quote

] i agree...or it gets worse...I cant tell you how many game day threads I complained how there was no evidence of a short passing game to offset the lack of time Joe had with our line to get rid of the ball. It actually baffled me that with the minds we had they couldnt figure that out..Joe keeps waiting for the deep route and gets killled

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I don't scapegoat Castillo the way many in these boards like to do, so I can't see any reason why things won't turn around next year.

First and foremost the line will be healthier...Osemele will be back, And Yanda will be another off-season removed from his shoulder surgery. We'll see what happens with Gino and whoever we bring in for competition, but either way, center play should be better too. We should see an improvement at RT as well. Not to mention, they'll have another year to study the blocking schemes.

Rice and Pierce will also have an offseason to heal, which will held the running game. With the line and backs shored up, a lot of pressure will be taken off Joe.

Then we'll be able to open up the play book, especially now that Pitta is playing again. I think that they really went vanilla out of necessity with the injuries to Pitta and Jones and the lack of running game, not to mention the awful play of the line. With those issues fixed, or at least improving, the offense should be much better.

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I think the damage is done. Now it appears the good coaches are getting gone for his screw up. It means lost respect from players. His respect dwindled by getting rid of guys who were outspoken already.

So do you think he can right this offensive ship, or is his ship sinking even further now?

 

Bisciotti actually said the players started to buy in to Castillo, so no, respect was not lost.

 

ZBS works. Period. Our line just sucked.

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I dint think he can because there is no plan on offense. Just basic vanilla with no ability to design plays for your playmakers or ability to counter schemes when the opposing defenses stop what you are trying to do

You can't always say that...  A lot depends on who the O.C. is and who all they bring in to replace the guys that go.

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For the people who want to make Castillo out to be the cause for all our problems with the run game and oline, do we ever just stop and think that maybe, just maybe, Gino and A.Q just weren't good enough? Is it possible to think that while playing well, it was a tough adjustment for Monroe to change teams in the middle of a season? Maybe it's possible to think that Oher just had a bad season. How about the possibility that both Rice and Peirce were hurt much more then they lead on, but just like Flacco, they didn't wanna make injury an excuse?

 

Now of course with all this said Castillo changing things from what we won the SB with didn't help, but you don't always see the positive impact of change right away. The oline really started to perform better in run blocking towards the end of the year, the pass blocking was still spotty, but most of the pressure came from guys just flat out getting beat or a call not being made. That is on the players not the coach.

 

I'm willing to bet that if we sign Monroe and get KO back healthy, the left side of the line becomes instantly better. A healthy Yanda is always great and my money is on Wagner at RT. I think that's a pretty good to solid right side, depending on how Ricky plays. Then you upgrade the Center position with either Gino improving or replacing him and I think we have a really good oline.

 

I have no proof, but I think the guys who bucked the changes the most were BMac and Oher. The other issue was that Gino and A.Q just weren't good enough and because of it, we had 3 oline not playing well each game imo.

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For the people who want to make Castillo out to be the cause for all our problems with the run game and oline, do we ever just stop and think that maybe, just maybe, Gino and A.Q just weren't good enough? Is it possible to think that while playing well, it was a tough adjustment for Monroe to change teams in the middle of a season? Maybe it's possible to think that Oher just had a bad season. How about the possibility that both Rice and Peirce were hurt much more then they lead on, but just like Flacco, they didn't wanna make injury an excuse?

 

Now of course with all this said Castillo changing things from what we won the SB with didn't help, but you don't always see the positive impact of change right away. The oline really started to perform better in run blocking towards the end of the year, the pass blocking was still spotty, but most of the pressure came from guys just flat out getting beat or a call not being made. That is on the players not the coach.

 

I'm willing to bet that if we sign Monroe and get KO back healthy, the left side of the line becomes instantly better. A healthy Yanda is always great and my money is on Wagner at RT. I think that's a pretty good to solid right side, depending on how Ricky plays. Then you upgrade the Center position with either Gino improving or replacing him and I think we have a really good oline.

 

I have no proof, but I think the guys who bucked the changes the most were BMac and Oher. The other issue was that Gino and A.Q just weren't good enough and because of it, we had 3 oline not playing well each game imo.

You and I have discussed things  before and I respect your opinion . I agree about Shipley and Oher . at first yes gino was bad but he played better as the year progress I know everyone said he was undersized . I watched just him at the Texans game . Him alone handled Watt without help on allot of plays and other times he was not physically  overpowered  yes he got beat at times.  Just defending him he wasn't a total disaster all the time. Don't you think a coach with all of the experience Castillo that ,one Gino for all intents and purposes was a rookie, first thing is terminology changes  he throws at him, then scheme changes, then  different blitzes  he is learning for his job that's a steep learning curve he should have known better. Gino also when we played cincy last year( superbowl year) did a good job of handling atkins when he played that's not easy for anyone. I do agree injuries killed us before we played two games but shouldn't he or the oc made scheme adjustments  to compensate for the weakness in the line.

 

and I am curious of what you think about Castillo's statiscal history. lead the league in sacks for 7 years under his watch.I would like to hear your input and  thoughts on that .

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For the people who want to make Castillo out to be the cause for all our problems with the run game and oline, do we ever just stop and think that maybe, just maybe, Gino and A.Q just weren't good enough? Is it possible to think that while playing well, it was a tough adjustment for Monroe to change teams in the middle of a season? Maybe it's possible to think that Oher just had a bad season. How about the possibility that both Rice and Peirce were hurt much more then they lead on, but just like Flacco, they didn't wanna make injury an excuse?

 

Now of course with all this said Castillo changing things from what we won the SB with didn't help, but you don't always see the positive impact of change right away. The oline really started to perform better in run blocking towards the end of the year, the pass blocking was still spotty, but most of the pressure came from guys just flat out getting beat or a call not being made. That is on the players not the coach.

 

I'm willing to bet that if we sign Monroe and get KO back healthy, the left side of the line becomes instantly better. A healthy Yanda is always great and my money is on Wagner at RT. I think that's a pretty good to solid right side, depending on how Ricky plays. Then you upgrade the Center position with either Gino improving or replacing him and I think we have a really good oline.

 

I have no proof, but I think the guys who bucked the changes the most were BMac and Oher. The other issue was that Gino and A.Q just weren't good enough and because of it, we had 3 oline not playing well each game imo.

 

What about Yanda & Oher?  They didn't play well either...Also our 2 pro backs...I also realize our TE/FB lost their touch on blocking assignment too.

Basically anything Castillo was assigned to 'coincidentally' had the worst performance in Ravens history.   We also achieved getting the our QB sacked the most in ravens history.   

The best move Ravens could've done was to take a step back and find the best Oline coach.   We have the whole offseason to do it.   Plently of time to be patient and find the right guy.   Instead, Harbaugh stepped in and basically secured his BFF job as soon as the season was over.

 

At the end, whether this move sucks or not, its already been decided and done with.   

 

Harbaugh just has to know that if this area (Oline & run game) becomes a disaster again, its not only Castillo who gets canned but Harbaugh's job is on the line too.      

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You can't always say that...  A lot depends on who the O.C. is and who all they bring in to replace the guys that go.

Its Caldwell, Until otherwise. Castillo is the instrument of Harbaugh. Together its uninspiring.

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You and I have discussed things  before and I respect your opinion . I agree about Shipley and Oher . at first yes gino was bad but he played better as the year progress I know everyone said he was undersized . I watched just him at the Texans game . Him alone handled Watt without help on allot of plays and other times he was not physically  overpowered  yes he got beat at times.  Just defending him he wasn't a total disaster all the time. Don't you think a coach with all of the experience Castillo that ,one Gino for all intents and purposes was a rookie, first thing is terminology changes  he throws at him, then scheme changes, then  different blitzes  he is learning for his job that's a steep learning curve he should have known better. Gino also when we played cincy last year( superbowl year) did a good job of handling atkins when he played that's not easy for anyone. I do agree injuries killed us before we played two games but shouldn't he or the oc made scheme adjustments  to compensate for the weakness in the line.

 

and I am curious of what you think about Castillo's statiscal history. lead the league in sacks for 7 years under his watch.I would like to hear your input and  thoughts on that .

 

First off let me start with Gino. I like him. Did he struggle, yes but as you pointed out there was a lot that went into it, not just talent. With that said, I'd definitely make him compete for his job, but with that said, I actually think he'd win. Some guys are plug and play, while others take 2-3 years to truely develop. Next year will be Gino's 3rd in the NFL.

 

As for Castillo, I wasn't aware of his stats as a coach. At the end of the day, just like with any coach, I think he's at the mercy of his players for the most part. Because he can only teach and coach so much, before eventually those players have to perform. What type of players did he have when all those sacks were given up? What was the offensive system? I know just watching the Eagles I saw plenty of times that McNabb would miss a hot read. So does the sack come from QB/WR error or the oline. This year I noticed our blocking scheme called for our RBs and WRs to help up a lot in pass pro. We really struggled in that area. Was it a result of the actual scheme, or did our backs just have a problem picking up the scheme?

 

A lot of times this year our guys just looked confused when it came to pass blocking. I gotta think that's a result of guys just not being confident in what they were asked to do. So i guess to answer your question, i'd say I base my opinions on what I can actually see with my eyes, because there are far too many variable when you are looking at stats alone. Castillo has a complex pass pro scheme, that involves the TEs, RBs and WRs. If everyone is on the same page it seems to work, when they are not, watch out.

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What about Yanda & Oher?  They didn't play well either...Also our 2 pro backs...I also realize our TE/FB lost their touch on blocking assignment too.

Basically anything Castillo was assigned to 'coincidentally' had the worst performance in Ravens history.   We also achieved getting the our QB sacked the most in ravens history.   

The best move Ravens could've done was to take a step back and find the best Oline coach.   We have the whole offseason to do it.   Plently of time to be patient and find the right guy.   Instead, Harbaugh stepped in and basically secured his BFF job as soon as the season was over.

 

At the end, whether this move sucks or not, its already been decided and done with.   

 

Harbaugh just has to know that if this area (Oline & run game) becomes a disaster again, its not only Castillo who gets canned but Harbaugh's job is on the line too.      

 

Basically what you are suggesting is exactly what happened. The Ravens added one of the game's best oline coaches in Castillo to the team last season. It's not like Castillo was some college coach that Harbs gave a shot too, or like Castillo was hard pressed to find a job, he actually turned down jobs to come here. The guy is widely considered a really good to great oline coach.

 

For as much as people wanna believe that BMac bashed Castillo on his way out of town he didn't. He actually gave a really good, honest insight to what was going on, but most people just took that as an opportunity to say how bad Castillo was. If you can(or even want to) go back and read McKinnie's comments. He talks about how Castillo is a really good coach, but his scheme requires a lot of thinking and all the players just didn't learn at the same pace.

 

If you piece together the BMac article and what Mr B. had to say about Castillo you can easily see(or at least i do) that he was just the pain of change the Ravens dealt with. Castillo saw area's where the Ravens could improve and attacked it hard, while the mostly veteran oline bucked against those changes because it wasn't what they were used to. Yes Yanda struggled towards the beginning of the year, but towards the end, Yanda and Monroe where our best two linemen.

 

As for the running game, when you have a oline that struggles your running game and offense as a whole will struggle. With a new blocking system that's tough to learn and adjust to, plus the injuries and personnel changes it's no surprise to me that the oline struggled. Also just like Flacco, but Rice and BP pressed a lot and tried way too hard at times. It was just a bad deal and yes it was heavily caused by Castillo changing things, but that doesn't mean that it wasn't a change for the better. It's tough to adapt to change, especially when you are coming from what appeared to be success.

 

Also with Harbs, it doesn't matter if he fired Castillo and promoted Washington to be the oline coach. If the oline struggles again next season it's his butt regardless.

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I hope I'm proven dead wrong but I see no good future for this offense with Castillo as the O line coach.

 

If one actually looks at the numbers from his years in Philly - they aren't that impressive. Not to mention - he certainly was no benefit this past season and in fact made it worse.

 

It looks like we're stuck with Caldwell at this point as OC which means no help there.

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I hope I'm proven dead wrong but I see no good future for this offense with Castillo as the O line coach.

 

If one actually looks at the numbers from his years in Philly - they aren't that impressive. Not to mention - he certainly was no benefit this past season and in fact made it worse.

 

It looks like we're stuck with Caldwell at this point as OC which means no help there.

 

I'm seeing this a lot and I really don't get it. What does numbers for a coach really show? At the end of the day all the coach can do is teach and coach technique.

 

Yes he came in and made things worse, because he changed things and change doesn't always have the desired effect instantly. It's not like he came in and was running the same exact system but ran it into the ground. The players struggled with the changes, does that make Castillo a bad coach?

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A lot of times this year our guys just looked confused when it came to pass blocking. I gotta think that's a result of guys just not being confident in what they were asked to do. So i guess to answer your question, i'd say I base my opinions on what I can actually see with my eyes, because there are far too many variable when you are looking at stats alone. Castillo has a complex pass pro scheme, that involves the TEs, RBs and WRs. If everyone is on the same page it seems to work, when they are not, watch out.

They ran a west coast offense in philly during Castillo's tenure with the same blocking scheme and pass protection scheme he's attempting to install here . the bolded statement is the understatement of the century train wrecks look better.I'm going to fess up I read allot of stats and negative things about Castillo on these forums without checking things out for myself .The Eagles had a successful run game and some oline personnel during his tenure there were probowl players. the sack numbers are horrid Mcnabb was injured a lot but Joe is not  a "mobile qb" mcnabb is  .  but the offense was successful with very few losing seasons. so me with egg on my face its not as bad as I have thought. I do appreciate your input and sharing your thoughts.

 

i'm going to adopt a wait and see attitude . he does need to fix those sack numbers cause if Joe gets hurt folks will be calling for his head .regardless if its his fault or not .

 

random thought Joe and Tyrod need a coach .

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WOW Castillo is still here. I would say its the Cam Cameron thing all over again but Cam is better than Castillo.  SMH 

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I don't like the idea of keeping Castillo, but Harbaugh created the mess.  We have to see if the cleaned up version of the offensive coaching tree can produce.  From what I have read it looks like the team used a ZBS some of the time ever since Vonta Leach became a Raven.  Harbaugh wanted to make the ZBS a full time thing, and thought Castillo could help.  Instant confusion/conflict was created when Castillo was inserted into a coaching tree already containing Andy Moeller as O-line coach, and Wilbert Montgomery as RB coach.   

 

It looks like a case of "too many cooks", and the players getting conflicting direction.  Castillo is said to have come on way too strong, stepped on toes and offended players and coaches feelings.  In addtion Gradkowski and Shipley are absolutely horrible, Yanda was coming off of shoulder surgery, and Oher somehow regressed.

 

It looks like the staff is set with Castillo being the only voice the O-line will hear, and there is not a damned thing we can do about it.  But!  Reading Preston's column with the Bisciotti interview gives me hope.  Steve B. made it clear he will NOT accept repeated failure, but is smart and respectful enough to let it play out.  I think the pressure will definitely make the offense better, and if Caldwell leaves and say a Turner or Chudszinski is hired it could thrive.

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I doubt Harbaugh has lost respect from his players and I doubt that Castillo will ruin the offense. In my opinion the direction of the offense shall be determine by who the offense coordinator will be .

lol........How can the coaches be this openly bad & people still not get it.

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I'm seeing this a lot and I really don't get it. What does numbers for a coach really show? At the end of the day all the coach can do is teach and coach technique.

 

Yes he came in and made things worse, because he changed things and change doesn't always have the desired effect instantly. It's not like he came in and was running the same exact system but ran it into the ground. The players struggled with the changes, does that make Castillo a bad coach?

 

when you're the O line coach and in 16 years you only have 2 with sack totals below 30 - it says a lot! What we learned this year is that eventually Joe will get hurt.

 

when your run game in all that time is only in the top 3 of those years - that says a lot.

 

I've seen here a lot it was about personnel - I can understand that - however, as a coach shouldn't you know when your players just aren't getting it? if their skill set is not such to make it work? Well before week 10 when we finally decided to back off some?

 

This isn't a case of it started off bad and got better. It started off bad and stayed bad.

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I'm seeing this a lot and I really don't get it. What does numbers for a coach really show? At the end of the day all the coach can do is teach and coach technique.

 

Yes he came in and made things worse, because he changed things and change doesn't always have the desired effect instantly. It's not like he came in and was running the same exact system but ran it into the ground. The players struggled with the changes, does that make Castillo a bad coach?

 

as a coach its your job to know what your personel can and cant do and you play to their strengths.

 

as a coach you dont tell them to play scheme they cant do and then blame them when it goes wrong lol.

 

blaming personel is just a poor excuse.

 

belichick is a prime example of a coach who adjust his scheme based on the personel he has.

its why he is so succesfull and labeld a genius by many.

 

bad coaches just blame the personel not running their scheme properly lol.

 

i guess it was boldin , housh and mason fault they could not burn CBs deep on a regular basis.

they should have worked more on their speed i guess....

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Maybe with other changes, yes, there will be improvement...  I am a firm believer in "you don't throw the baby out with the bathwater."  I am with Bisciotti... Give these guys a chance to make corrections. You make the changes that these guys within your coaching staff inside the organization believes is necessary; then if it doesn't correct things, that's when you get drastic.

I would have thought we had learned from our Cam mistakes, how many chances did we blow until stubburn Harbs was told either he fire him or the FO will do it. I think this is Harbs downfall in coaching, as they say in S.F. about his brother "he is very stubburn with staff and GM" this is where bringing in friends don't do good. Now Mr B and Oz are two of the best at their positions, I just wonder if they just gave John the rope that will hang himself.

 

It's not hidden the Castillo is a very strict on how he wants things to go on his schemes, hate to say.. a lot like Cam was, no adjustments just block like your told. Guess next season will tell, I just hope it's not like this seasons outcome where we see the problems but we continue to do the samethings expecting another result....smh!!

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