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RavensFanMvp

The Savior vs. Multiple Wide Receivers

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I watched the state of the ravens yesterday and I heard Ozzie mention a certain type of player the team is looking for at WR. He basically said by the time the 2014 season starts, he will have his "guy." Now I was as excited as most when I heard this but then I got to thinking.... Instead of us finding our "guy", why can't we go out and find our "guys?"

I mean, every time we go searching for help at receiver (or help on offense in general), we always look for that one guy, then we ignore the WR position for the next few years, in hopes of this "one" guy being the savior. Meanwhile, on defense we bring in 2 or 3 players for each position of need to try to improve those positions.

Well we need to do what we did in 2005, when we signed a free agent receiver (Derrick Mason), and drafted one as well (Mark Clayton). That's almost ten years since we made any kind of serious effort to bring in high level guys at wideout. Even before 2005, we always depended on the savior. Remember Travis Taylor anyone? Once we drafted Taylor in 2000, we didn't really try to bring in any top level receiver until 05.

We need to sign multiple free agent WRs, or draft 2 or 3 guys in the draft, two of them being high draft picks (1st, 2nd, or 3rd rounders), or a mixture of both.

Whatever the case may be, we need to bring in at least 3 highly talented guys that could compete for the second receiver spot. I'm not saying we should break the bank for receivers, but teams like the Packers, Saints, Giants, Eagles, 49ers, Seahawks, Broncos, etc.... those teams bring in multiple guys each year to compete for a roster spot and we need to do the same.

And no... 6th or 7th rounders, UDFAs, waiver and practice squad guys don't count. That's the Ravens way of doing things. We need to switch things up and start making an assertive effort to CONSTANTLY bring in talented WRs. Not just this off-season, but moving forward as well. The front office set Joe up for failure by trading Boldin, now it's time to make it up to him by finding him multiple guys to throw to. Ozzie said it himself at the presser, "finding a good wide receiver is hit or miss".

Basically Ozzie was saying that it's a 50/50 chance a WR will come in and fit our (or any team) system (or in a rookie's case play well in the NFL, like he did in college). Well, if that's the case, then bringing in multiple guys would be the smart thing to do IMO. I mean why bring in one guy in hopes of him being the savior, if it's either hit or miss? We've done this for the last 7 years. We put the weight of the world on "one" guy shoulders, and hoped and prayed that he can turn around our always struggling offense.

 

What ends up happening is....

We scrutinize every single mistake our so called savior makes and he ends up being the scapegoat for why our O still sucks. But if we bring in 3 or more guys, we put ourselves in position to have a guy most likely hit, rather than miss because the more guys we bring in, the higher the chance someone steps up to be that guy. Look at what happened with Pitta and Dickson. We didn't have to put all the pressure on one guy to replace Heap. We brought in 2 guys that was competing against each other to replace him. We didn't have to worry about our one guy not stepping up because we had two guys competing and we knew that one of them would rise to the occasion.

You can use Gino for comparison on the opposite end of the speculum. Instead of bringing in another high talented guy to push Gino at center, we stuck with Gino and hoped that he could replace Birk and look how that worked out.

Anyway, I truly hope the front office recognize that bringing in "one" guy at WR is not going to be the answer for us (it hasn't worked in the last 7 years). Since WRs are so hit or miss, we need to bring in multiple guys, so Joe and hopefully the new offensive coordinator can have some weapons to work with on offense. And let's stick to talented guys with upside this time too, instead of low level receivers who is already at their ceiling when we sign them.

 

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I watched the state of the ravens yesterday and I heard Ozzie mention a certain type of player the team is looking for at WR. He basically said by the time the 2014 season starts, he will have his "guy." Now I was as excited as most when I heard this but then I got to thinking.... Instead of us finding our "guy", why can't we go out and find our "guys?"

I mean, every time we go searching for help at receiver (or help on offense in general), we always look for that one guy, then we ignore the WR position for the next few years, in hopes of this "one" guy being the savior. Meanwhile, on defense we bring in 2 or 3 players for each position of need to try to improve those positions.

Well we need to do what we did in 2005, when we signed a free agent receiver (Derrick Mason), and drafted one as well (Mark Clayton). That's almost ten years since we made any kind of serious effort to bring in high level guys at wideout. Even before 2005, we always depended on the savior. Remember Travis Taylor anyone? Once we drafted Taylor in 2000, we didn't really try to bring in any top level receiver until 05.

We need to sign multiple free agent WRs, or draft 2 or 3 guys in the draft, two of them being high draft picks (1st, 2nd, or 3rd rounders), or a mixture of both.

Whatever the case may be, we need to bring in at least 3 highly talented guys that could compete for the second receiver spot. I'm not saying we should break the bank for receivers, but teams like the Packers, Saints, Giants, Eagles, 49ers, Seahawks, Broncos, etc.... those teams bring in multiple guys each year to compete for a roster spot and we need to do the same.

And no... 6th or 7th rounders, UDFAs, waiver and practice squad guys don't count. That's the Ravens way of doing things. We need to switch things up and start making an assertive effort to CONSTANTLY bring in talented WRs. Not just this off-season, but moving forward as well. The front office set Joe up for failure by trading Boldin, now it's time to make it up to him by finding him multiple guys to throw to. Ozzie said it himself at the presser, "finding a good wide receiver is hit or miss".

Basically Ozzie was saying that it's a 50/50 chance a WR will come in and fit our (or any team) system (or in a rookie's case play well in the NFL, like he did in college). Well, if that's the case, then bringing in multiple guys would be the smart thing to do IMO. I mean why bring in one guy in hopes of him being the savior, if it's either hit or miss? We've done this for the last 7 years. We put the weight of the world on "one" guy shoulders, and hoped and prayed that he can turn around our always struggling offense.

 

What ends up happening is....

We scrutinize every single mistake our so called savior makes and he ends up being the scapegoat for why our O still sucks. But if we bring in 3 or more guys, we put ourselves in position to have a guy most likely hit, rather than miss because the more guys we bring in, the higher the chance someone steps up to be that guy. Look at what happened with Pitta and Dickson. We didn't have to put all the pressure on one guy to replace Heap. We brought in 2 guys that was competing against each other to replace him. We didn't have to worry about our one guy not stepping up because we had two guys competing and we knew that one of them would rise to the occasion.

You can use Gino for comparison on the opposite end of the speculum. Instead of bringing in another high talented guy to push Gino at center, we stuck with Gino and hoped that he could replace Birk and look how that worked out.

Anyway, I truly hope the front office recognize that bringing in "one" guy at WR is not going to be the answer for us (it hasn't worked in the last 7 years). Since WRs are so hit or miss, we need to bring in multiple guys, so Joe and hopefully the new offensive coordinator can have some weapons to work with on offense. And let's stick to talented guys with upside this time too, instead of low level receivers who is already at their ceiling when we sign them.

 

I agree with everything you have said , we don't need developmental wide outs. I get that it can be a crap shot . but 20 and only one has a 1000 yard season that's not good. why draft someone who can't run routes, doesn't have a full route tree, lots of drops, can't box out defenders. ...don't we have enough of those already.

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I feel your pain no late round WR(we got lucky with brown)I hope we draft Ebron in the first and get a WR in the second a center in the 3rd or 4th and I am good
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If somehow Mike Evans falls in our 18th pick, it would be ecstatic..........

 

I wish I wish.......can't wait for the draft....

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If somehow Mike Evans falls in our 18th pick, it would be ecstatic..........

 

I wish I wish.......can't wait for the draft....

my fear is this Evans is there and so is Clinton dix ,,,,,,,,,or a pass rusher he likes. will he still take evans

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I will reiterate my opinion... I don't believe that Mike Evans is around at 17 (unless we trade up)...  Only because you look at the teams making picks prior to us....  Teams that NEED WR's BAD.... Cardinals... Fitz is getting older, Houston or NY Jets,   Cleveland, Jacksonville, Oakland, even the Steelers...  To get Mike Evans we will need to trade up.  He's at least Top 10.

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The thing is if you're talking about multiple receivers, it gets hard to get all these guys on the field at the same time. You have Torrey, Marlon, Pitta, New WR A, and New WR B. That's a five wide set right there.

 

So the question becomes, would you rather add one guy who can take over a game and earn that starting job? Or add multiple guys who become role players in various situations?

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I'm going to say the team needs to go all in this draft.  There are enough pieces here now to build around.  You fill in some holes here by trading up, or trading back into the first to get solid players you want, not just guys who fall to you and build.  It might sound stupid, but the team is good, minus a few positions.  If Ozzie is willing to give up next years 1st and second to get the guys we need now I feel this team will be better in the long and short term. 

 

I don't think we go into the season without adding at least 2 receivers or a wr and a te before camp starts.  And the team should stop with this power in numbers game.  Go get the guy who will get the job done and keep them on the field unless you're mixing it up with 2 TEs.

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We may even be surprised at who is still around next year...  I mean, do we dump Doss and some others to keep Jones???  So you have your two outside speedsters too...  This offseason could get REALLY REALLY interesting...  yeah, you are exactly right...  who can be on the field at one time??? 

 

The thing is if you're talking about multiple receivers, it gets hard to get all these guys on the field at the same time. You have Torrey, Marlon, Pitta, New WR A, and New WR B. That's a five wide set right there.

 

So the question becomes, would you rather add one guy who can take over a game and earn that starting job? Or add multiple guys who become role players in various situations?

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I will reiterate my opinion... I don't believe that Mike Evans is around at 17 (unless we trade up)... Only because you look at the teams making picks prior to us.... Teams that NEED WR's BAD.... Cardinals... Fitz is getting older, Houston or NY Jets, Cleveland, Jacksonville, Oakland, even the Steelers... To get Mike Evans we will need to trade up. He's at least Top 10.


Evans has top ten talent, but between the QBs, LT, pass rushers and other WR who are just as talented and in as high demand, a lot of guys, including Evans, could fall to us in the middle of the first. He has some question marks, I don't think he is a lock to go in the top 20, much less top ten.

That said, Evans is my "dream scenario". Really hope we land him.
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I'm going to say the team needs to go all in this draft.  There are enough pieces here now to build around.  You fill in some holes here by trading up, or trading back into the first to get solid players you want, not just guys who fall to you and build.  It might sound stupid, but the team is good, minus a few positions.  If Ozzie is willing to give up next years 1st and second to get the guys we need now I feel this team will be better in the long and short term. 

 

I don't think we go into the season without adding at least 2 receivers or a wr and a te before camp starts.  And the team should stop with this power in numbers game.  Go get the guy who will get the job done and keep them on the field unless you're mixing it up with 2 TEs.

So true...  but don't forget...  We got Furstenburg sitting back there learning.  I didn't understand why we didn't use him when Pitta was out...  I just think that guy has sooooo much potential.  He remninds me so much of Todd Heap sometimes... 

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Evans has top ten talent, but between the QBs, LT, pass rushers and other WR who are just as talented and in as high demand, a lot of guys, including Evans, could fall to us in the middle of the first. He has some question marks, I don't think he is a lock to go in the top 20, much less top ten.

That said, Evans is my "dream scenario". Really hope we land him.

That and they're gonna be looking at Linemen Fiy.  Which we need WAY MORE!

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my fear is this Evans is there and so is Clinton dix ,,,,,,,,,or a pass rusher he likes. will he still take evans

I'm hoping the Ravens don't draft Evans at all or Clinton Dix atleast in the first round but if it happens well I won't question Ozzie

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I'm hoping the Ravens don't draft Evans at all or Clinton Dix atleast in the first round but if it happens well I won't question Ozzie

will he go offense or go defense that's all I meant . I prefer amaro personally . Clinton dix I like as well but evans is the popular name here

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Since we only have 4 WRs under contract going into next year, I think it is fair to say we will bring in at least 2 new guys. Whether via draft or FA is hard to say, but I would guess we draft a couple, perhaps one early and one later, and also sign a free agent or two.
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Yeah lets draft a TE and WE first and second and watch them do nothing as Flacco is sacked 50 times a year.

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Yeah lets draft a TE and WE first and second and watch them do nothing as Flacco is sacked 50 times a year.


I'm pretty sure we will draft an OL early as well, and KO coming back healthy could be a big improvement.
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Yeah lets draft a TE and WE first and second and watch them do nothing as Flacco is sacked 50 times a year.

There are so many good weapons though this draft.  We can find a stop gap at center and there is no way they can be worse than Gino.  I think KO comes back and is productive as well and you can pick up a RT later in the draft who will most likely put up more resistance than the Michael "Turnstile" Oher.

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I agree with everything you have said , we don't need developmental wide outs. I get that it can be a crap shot . but 20 and only one has a 1000 yard season that's not good. why draft someone who can't run routes, doesn't have a full route tree, lots of drops, can't box out defenders. ...don't we have enough of those already.

 

Exactly. It's basically a crap shoot when it comes to receivers, Ozzie stated this himself. Your chances decrease dramatically if you are bringing in low level guys that are low round draft picks or guys you pick up off the waiver wire. So we need to go after 2 or 3 guys that could possiblly become a 1,000 yard receiver within a year or two of being in the league.

 

The thing is if you're talking about multiple receivers, it gets hard to get all these guys on the field at the same time. You have Torrey, Marlon, Pitta, New WR A, and New WR B. That's a five wide set right there.

 

So the question becomes, would you rather add one guy who can take over a game and earn that starting job? Or add multiple guys who become role players in various situations?

 

But that's the thing. It's not about getting all these guys out on the field. We was able to get guys like Travis Taylor, Marcus Robinson, Kevin Johnson, Mark Clayton, D- Will, Doss, etc., out on the field and they still didn't produce. But if you bring in 2 or 3 guys, we don't have to worry about them not producing because the chances are, at least one of those 3 guys will most likely step
up. The ones that don't produce can spend another year developing until they are ready.

Developing good wideouts is more so about options than it is finding that one guy that can "hopefully" come in and produce. And BTW, having 5 potentially good receivers is a good thing. It give us more the reason to play 4 or 5 wide sets, which is what most great modern offenses run.
 

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That and they're gonna be looking at Linemen Fiy.  Which we need WAY MORE!

 

Yeah lets draft a TE and WE first and second and watch them do nothing as Flacco is sacked 50 times a year.

 

I don't think O-line is a necessarily a bigger need than wideout. If we're going to stick with the air coryell, then yes O-line is a more pressing need. But if we bring in a offensive coordinator that's willing to go deep and short, 50/50, then I think WR is going to be a bigger need than O-line. A good offensive scheme can mask a lot of things. The air coryell is a intermediate to deep offensive system which forces the linemen to have to hold their blocks longer than guys who play in a west coast offense. So if we bring in a OC that's going to not only attack down field but also run short routes, I think WR is a bigger need than O-line.

We was in the same predicament in 2009. The situation was... do we draft Oher and sew up the RT (or in Ozzie case long term, LT) or draft a guy like Desean Jackson, Hakeem Nicks or Kenny Britt. Well Oher has been average at best, while Jackson, Nicks and Britt has shown they are capable of being number one receivers. Look at the Packers.... their O-line isn't all that great, but their offensive scheme makes up for that because of the short, quick passes they they constantly run.
 

 

Since we only have 4 WRs under contract going into next year, I think it is fair to say we will bring in at least 2 new guys. Whether via draft or FA is hard to say, but I would guess we draft a couple, perhaps one early and one later, and also sign a free agent or two.

 

I hope you're right! Cause bringing in "one" guy and hoping he can be that guy is obviously not going to work.
 

 

There are so many good weapons though this draft.  We can find a stop gap at center and there is no way they can be worse than Gino.  I think KO comes back and is productive as well and you can pick up a RT later in the draft who will most likely put up more resistance than the Michael "Turnstile" Oher.

 

No doubt. If Ozzie can't find 2 or 3 guys he like at WR in this draft, then something is wrong. I mean why is it ok to go all out to restock on D, but when the offense needs to be revamp it's, "we're going to find our "guy". I mean we signed multiple D linemen, linebackers, and safeties last year. It's time to do the same at WR and get Joe some weapons that can really contribute in a major way.

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I don't think O-line is a necessarily a bigger need than wideout. If we're going to stick with the air coryell, then yes O-line is a more pressing need. But if we bring in a offensive coordinator that's willing to go deep and short, 50/50, then I think WR is going to be a bigger need than O-line. A good offensive scheme can mask a lot of things. The air coryell is a intermediate to deep offensive system which forces the linemen to have to hold their blocks longer than guys who play in a west coast offense. So if we bring in a OC that's going to not only attack down field but also run short routes, I think WR is a bigger need than O-line.

We was in the same predicament in 2009. The situation was... do we draft Oher and sew up the RT (or in Ozzie case long term, LT) or draft a guy like Desean Jackson, Hakeem Nicks or Kenny Britt. Well Oher has been average at best, while Jackson, Nicks and Britt has shown they are capable of being number one receivers. Look at the Packers.... their O-line isn't all that great, but their offensive scheme makes up for that because of the short, quick passes they they constantly run.



I hope you're right! Cause bringing in "one" guy and hoping he can be that guy is obviously not going to work.



No doubt. If Ozzie can't find 2 or 3 guys he like at WR in this draft, then something is wrong. I mean why is it ok to go all out to restock on D, but when the offense needs to be revamp it's, "we're going to find our "guy". I mean we signed multiple D linemen, linebackers, and safeties last year. It's time to do the same at WR and get Joe some weapons that can really contribute in a major way.


In Ozzie defense, he had to basically build a whole new defense. Both safeties, 3/4 lbs a and a d lineman, not counting Williams cause we had Jimmy. I think the same urgency is show towards fixing the offense this year and thought it was going to be done regardless seeing how it was made clear the defense was going to be addressed.
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Exactly. It's basically a crap shoot when it comes to receivers, Ozzie stated this himself. Your chances decrease dramatically if you are bringing in low level guys that are low round draft picks or guys you pick up off the waiver wire. So we need to go after 2 or 3 guys that could possiblly become a 1,000 yard receiver within a year or two of being in the league.

 

 

But that's the thing. It's not about getting all these guys out on the field. We was able to get guys like Travis Taylor, Marcus Robinson, Kevin Johnson, Mark Clayton, D- Will, Doss, etc., out on the field and they still didn't produce. But if you bring in 2 or 3 guys, we don't have to worry about them not producing because the chances are, at least one of those 3 guys will most likely step
up. The ones that don't produce can spend another year developing until they are ready.

Developing good wideouts is more so about options than it is finding that one guy that can "hopefully" come in and produce. And BTW, having 5 potentially good receivers is a good thing. It give us more the reason to play 4 or 5 wide sets, which is what most great modern offenses run.
 

my favorite formation is 5 wide  I love seeing the defenders trying to cover all of them I also Love big athletic tight ends going across the middle.i hope we can find some young wr's and get a high powered offense going.

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But that's the thing. It's not about getting all these guys out on the field. We was able to get guys like Travis Taylor, Marcus Robinson, Kevin Johnson, Mark Clayton, D- Will, Doss, etc., out on the field and they still didn't produce. But if you bring in 2 or 3 guys, we don't have to worry about them not producing because the chances are, at least one of those 3 guys will most likely step up. The ones that don't produce can spend another year developing until they are ready.

Developing good wideouts is more so about options than it is finding that one guy that can "hopefully" come in and produce. And BTW, having 5 potentially good receivers is a good thing. It give us more the reason to play 4 or 5 wide sets, which is what most great modern offenses run.
 

 

Adding multiple developmental receivers is not the solution. What if nobody steps up? We've had guys like Doss, Thompson, LaQuan Williams, Streeter, and others on the roster for multiple seasons, yet they still haven't stepped up and earned a starting job, let alone significant playing time. Joe needs weapons now, not seasons down the road, and that's if the two or three guys you bring in ever develop into anything.

 

Of course it's good to have five potentially good receivers. What's not good is spending big money or using multiple high picks to acquire some of these guys when they won't see the field on a regular basis, but only in 5 WR sets or similar situations. You already said that the chances of hitting on a receiver decrease dramatically if they are late round guys, so therefore it seems that the best plan would be to invest in as close as you can get to a sure thing. Going after a Marqise Lee type of player in the draft or a Hakeem Nicks type of player in free agency seems to be a much better plan than going after project players in the draft and washups in free agency.

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my favorite formation is 5 wide  I love seeing the defenders trying to cover all of them I also Love big athletic tight ends going across the middle.i hope we can find some young wr's and get a high powered offense going.

Only if we have a legit OC........Our playbooks right now are just as thin as a paper....

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Only if we have a legit OC........Our playbooks right now are just as thin as a paper....

agreed

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In Ozzie defense, he had to basically build a whole new defense. Both safeties, 3/4 lbs a and a d lineman, not counting Williams cause we had Jimmy. I think the same urgency is show towards fixing the offense this year and thought it was going to be done regardless seeing how it was made clear the defense was going to be addressed.

 

True. But Ozzie has always favored the defensive side of the ball. He always goes all out to bring in quality defensive guys, while signing low end guys on offense. It was understandable back when Boller and Wright was our QB's, but now that we have a top 10 QB like Joe, he needs to get him as many guys as possible. The front office is the reason Joe and the offense struggled this year. You can't make steak and potatoes out of beef jerky and lays chips.
 

 

my favorite formation is 5 wide  I love seeing the defenders trying to cover all of them I also Love big athletic tight ends going across the middle.i hope we can find some young wr's and get a high powered offense going.

 

Only if we have a legit OC........Our playbooks right now are just as thin as a paper....

 

 

agreed

 

Yeah, I agree also. What good are those players if we don't have the coaches to use them the right way? When we had Boldin, instead of running plays for him over the middle where he's good at, we tried to fit him into our system. We need a OC that's not only creative but who also plays to his players strengths. Since Harbs been the coach, our offense pretty much lined up and tried to beat the guy in front of them. We need a OC that's smart enough to switch things up when lining up and beat your man isn't working.

When rarely ran plays over the middle, we rarely sent guys in motion or shifted the formation. We rarely ran short passes or rub plays. We need to get someone who isn't buddy, buddy with Harbs as our OC, and let him run things how he see fit IMO.

 

So for us, getting the rihgt players and OC goes hand and hand this off season if you ask me.

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heres an idea that ive been feeling really partial to. 

 

if we are confident kelvin benjamin will be there in the early 20's, try to trade back there, and grab him, then in the early 2nd, grab brandin cooks. then automatically we have a dominant, big bodied, super physical, box out receiver, and maybe the quickest, fastest,shiftiest player in the entire draft(this years tavon austin, if not better) who is criminally underrated at this point. 

 

slot man and a true number 1 in 2 picks. now its thedraft so no player is a guarantee, but im liking the idea.

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my fear is this Evans is there and so is Clinton dix ,,,,,,,,,or a pass rusher he likes. will he still take evans

ill go out on a limb and say he gets the pass rusher. ozzie has a strong tendency to pick the player we all think is the least likely choice. of course he normally has a plan and believes we have a chance at a much better value pick later on, so there is a method to the madness. but something like this would really irritate me

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ill go out on a limb and say he gets the pass rusher. ozzie has a strong tendency to pick the player we all think is the least likely choice. of course he normally has a plan and believes we have a chance at a much better value pick later on, so there is a method to the madness. but something like this would really irritate me

I know he is smarter then I I just want an amaro, or evans . I want a calvin Johnson wanna be or a Vernon davis clone ,,,I hope this year is the year for that .

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heres an idea that ive been feeling really partial to. 

 

if we are confident kelvin benjamin will be there in the early 20's, try to trade back there, and grab him, then in the early 2nd, grab brandin cooks. then automatically we have a dominant, big bodied, super physical, box out receiver, and maybe the quickest, fastest,shiftiest player in the entire draft(this years tavon austin, if not better) who is criminally underrated at this point. 

 

slot man and a true number 1 in 2 picks. now its thedraft so no player is a guarantee, but im liking the idea.

another forum member mentioned cooks and I checked him out he is tiny but he also has return capabaility big plus esp if we can't retain jacoby

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