Dismal Offensive Line - scheme or personnel?

[redravenfan]

well thats because McNabb wasent that great in reading a defense and well new flash flacco is that great either lol.

McNabb is also more mobile/athletic Flacco...

between 1999 and 2009 in those 11 seasons McNabb only has 4 season where he played all 16 games......

 

also are you sure you aint making up 7 seconds??

i have yet to see a QB stand in a pocket for 7 seconds without any pressure lol.

QB can run around for 7 seconds before passing though lol.

 

 

Also in 2010 vick was the QB for the eagles since McNabb was shipped to the skins and the eagles allowed 49 sacks.

 

guys like tra thomas and shawn andrews where pro bowl selections under castillo but they where high 1st round picks as well...

jason peters was already a pro bowl selection with the bills before landing on the eagles.

 

not diminishing  certain accomplishments but a deeper look tells more though.

 

in the end all i would say is that QBs got sacked alot and rarely finished a season healthy.

those QBs where alot more athletic then our current QB.

those o-lines had some pretty talented players.

id trade in certain stats for a healthy QB and wins lol.

i highly doubt 30+ sacks can be all contributed to the QB trying to make plays all the time...

after reading this I can't wait for all the guys in this thread who say Castillo is a good coach he has been successful in this league if this is success they have a very low standard and set the bar at ground level. Joe will be on IR by week 10

[redravenfan]

This one I agree with. As long as Juan's the clear boss I don't mind him having a season and a minor personnel upgrade to prove himself. I think people have been piling on the hate too easily this season. I don't think we'll end up looking like the Broncos (Joe's release time is too slow anyway), but I do expect a strong upgrade. Even a middle-of-the-pack o-line could propel us to a top 10 offence if we get the right weapons and OC.

the sacks numbers from his lines are horrific. 7 out of ten years the highest sack totals in the league. It wasn't the players in philly they had probowl players on those lines. Granted both qb's are mobile but that's doesn't account for  all those sacks. If we review Castillo comes to Baltimore he is secretly made the oline coach we have no run game can't pass protect can't block. Historically bad offense .Oh the ravens oline players are horrible they can't execute , they are stupid blah blah . Castillo is retained for another year and smart fans start digging into his stats ,,,,come to find out this isn't unique same thing happened in philly . There's is no way that all the ravens and  eagles offensive players are horrible and can't execuete . it's Castillo all of our players and there's didn't just all of a sudden get bad .so the argument is finished it is Castillo's scheme and not the players.

In his defense the did have a run game while he was there but his qb was injured so often it didn't matter .

 

I just want to add one thing, everyone who bashes flacco on the regular , take an objective look cause after all is said and done  if it wasn't for flacco finding a way to succeed in spite of Castillo and the terrible oline we would not have been 8 and 8. give credit where credit is due.

I think its a good thing to try to put a positive spin on things because regardless of stats,or opinions or emotion. we are stuck with Castillo . Maybe Caldwell is offered a job elsewhere and we get a real oc whos see's the weaknesses and helps the players succeed in spite of them

[JEEPercreepermd]

After much criticism of Castillo, I have to retract after some thought. It's Personell.

Oher- Had a sup par year

Gino- Worst C in the league

Shipley- Dismal

Monroe- Did OK..not a great run blocker but really only got a beat by Peppers in the Chi game...but who HASN'T Peppers manhandled atleast once?

Overall, scheme can only go so far when you can't beat the man infront of you.

[redravenfan]

After much criticism of Castillo, I have to retract after some thought. It's Personell.

Oher- Had a sup par year

Gino- Worst C in the league

Shipley- Dismal

Monroe- Did OK..not a great run blocker but really only got a beat by Peppers in the Chi game...but who HASN'T Peppers manhandled atleast once?

Overall, scheme can only go so far when you can't beat the man infront of you.

yes much warranted criticism. his stats tell the tale . every oline player he comes in contact with has a bad year

[The Raven]

you have been reading the forums and learning that's awesome.

 

Nah, I've done a lot of outside research. 

 

If you guys want to read about the ZBS, there are two books I've read I'd recommend. Blood, Sweat, and Chalk is the first. The other is called Take Your Eyes Off The Ball.

 

So, it's nice that you've attempted to get smart with me, but I actually do know what I'm talking about and I didn't just learn it from a forum. :)

[Cawtious]

speaking of draft if there's a pass rusher Ozzie likes or say Clinton Dix is there , that shiny new wide receiver is not getting picked in the first round. Joe will get  undrafted rookie free agents and he will have to make do like always. everyone is pinning there hopes on Jensen he hasn't taken one nfl snap and he is going to come in and save the line how about lets see him play one game and go from there.

Jensen has taken snaps in the NFL.  Just not on game day.  I would imagine the reason they kept him on the 53-Man roster is so he could continue to work with the team, and not sit on the outside looking in on the IR.  I am very interested to see what he brings.

[The Raven]

Jensen has taken snaps in the NFL.  Just not on game day.  I would imagine the reason they kept him on the 53-Man roster is so he could continue to work with the team, and not sit on the outside looking in on the IR.  I am very interested to see what he brings.

 

Exactly what I was thinking. They kept him active so he could practice more and develop. And, we desperately needed interior depth too. 

[gabefergy]

Nah, I've done a lot of outside research. 

 

If you guys want to read about the ZBS, there are two books I've read I'd recommend. Blood, Sweat, and Chalk is the first. The other is called Take Your Eyes Off The Ball.

 

So, it's nice that you've attempted to get smart with me, but I actually do know what I'm talking about and I didn't just learn it from a forum. :)

That's a great book!

[The Raven]

That's a great book!

 

You've read it too? It's brilliant. Definitely learned a lot from it. I think everyone should read it! 

[gabefergy]

You've read it too? It's brilliant. Definitely learned a lot from it. I think everyone should read it! 

Yeah, I love Pat Kirwan. I listen to his radio show all the time.

[Jokerraven]

This is also a very good article about zbs , it is indepth and written so even a novice can get it http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2013/5/27/4363750/zone-blocking-running-football-breakdown-highlights-analysis-diagram

 

(ignore the fact that it was found on the steelers forums it is  a very good read.

[redravenfan]

Nah, I've done a lot of outside research. 

 

If you guys want to read about the ZBS, there are two books I've read I'd recommend. Blood, Sweat, and Chalk is the first. The other is called Take Your Eyes Off The Ball.

 

So, it's nice that you've attempted to get smart with me, but I actually do know what I'm talking about and I didn't just learn it from a forum. :)

both of my parents coach for a living and are very good teachers  . My dad is a college football coach and talent evaluator  and my mother is a strength and conditioning coach . I only believe half of what I read here forums of full of opinion but I am glad you found books on the subject and are sharing them with other fans.

[redravenfan]

Jensen has taken snaps in the NFL.  Just not on game day.  I would imagine the reason they kept him on the 53-Man roster is so he could continue to work with the team, and not sit on the outside looking in on the IR.  I am very interested to see what he brings.

and not that any fan has been privy too. the fans have no clue where he is in development or how well he is doing that's what I meant. I think him or wagner could be "the new athletic lineman". we need to fix the oline but that is purely speculation on my part.

[The Raven]

http://baltimoresportsandlife.com/baltimore-ravens/ravens-zone-blocking-scheme-whats-wrong/

 

Here's a wonderful link.

 

So... is that scheme or personnel? You tell me. It was executed once and failed the next.

[Guest I-70WestRaven]

The line looked lost. A lot of this season the one glaring omission by commentators and talking heads left out was the lose of Matt Birk. It was big, and it showed.

[Dr. Kelley]

I don't see any way the blame can be placed squarely on either the coaches or the players. They are all at fault. Castillo is a proven OL coach, but part of the problem might have been him coming in and trying to be the boss when we already had an OL coach. Looking back that was a bad situation, and it makes sense there would be confusion and miscommunication on the field.

The players were also at fault. Not only was there major personnel turnover, but three of our OL were flat out awful. Simply put Oher does not belong on the football field and Shipley was an abomination at LG. Gino was worse in pass blocking than run blocking, but that's not saying much. And don't get me started on what McKinnie was doing for the first month of the season. McKinnue and Oher are two major reasons why our ZBS did not work (and Dickson, possibly the worst blocking TE in the league).

As The Raven has pointed out, the ZBS is not hard, but it does require everyone doing their job properly. One weaklink and boom, it all goes. We had a lot of weak links this year. Whether it was Oher or Dickson losing backside contain, or Gino being unable to make a reach block, every time one of these errors happened it turned into a negative play. And these errors happened a lot.

I know we disagree with a lot but this post I'm 100% behind.

[Ravenseconbeast]

..but Castillo was an excellent and respected OL coach for years. .

 

 

I wouldn't be so sure about that.   He never had a QB(starting or backup) that wasn't seriously injured during his tenure.   And that's with 2 very mobile QBs (McNabb/Vick) for most of his tenure as OL coach.   

The average sacks that were allowed under Castillo as OL coach is around 35 sacks per/year.    Which is the 3rd highest among all tenure OL coaches(fired/still active) in the past decade.

[Bravens292]

Didn't know where to put this but Cam Cameron might have suggested our our line coaches to LSU.

 

http://www.nola.com/lsu/index.ssf/2014/01/lsu_may_be_considering_baltimo.html

[Guest RBates]

You have to be able to win some one on one on the O-line.  We couldn't.  Its that simple.

 

 Add to that- we had an unproven center that was undersized.  He needs to hit the weight room. 

[Guest RBates]

Gino needs the hit film study and the weights immediately.  We also need to bring in some legitimate competition at his p[osition and every other position on the O-line. 

[Tru11]

according to the links zone blocking depends on footwork.

 

oher,osemele, mckinnie dont really have the best footwork .....

gino is also questionable at best....

 

id say the scheme did not really fit the personell we had.

 

depening on who you ask its either the scheme set the personell up to fail or we simply did not had the personell to run the scheme we wanted.

 

personally im with the first group who thinks scheme should be based on the strengths of the personall at hand and not to force a scheme on personell we dont look to have what it takes to be good in it.

[The Raven]

according to the links zone blocking depends on footwork.

 

oher,osemele, mckinnie dont really have the best footwork .....

gino is also questionable at best....

 

id say the scheme did not really fit the personell we had.

 

depening on who you ask its either the scheme set the personell up to fail or we simply did not had the personell to run the scheme we wanted.

 

personally im with the first group who thinks scheme should be based on the strengths of the personall at hand and not to force a scheme on personell we dont look to have what it takes to be good in it.

 

McKinnie, I'll agree. But the other three are actually noted for their athleticism. Oher and Gino are both great athletes. KO is a great athlete too, for as big as he is.

[Tru11]

McKinnie, I'll agree. But the other three are actually noted for their athleticism. Oher and Gino are both great athletes. KO is a great athlete too, for as big as he is.

 

they are very athletic but their footwork is not their biggest strength.

their biggest strength is their power though.

[The Raven]

they are very athletic but their footwork is not their biggest strength.

their biggest strength is their power though.

 

Oher? Powerful? Nope. Gino? Powerful? Nope. KO yeah, he is.

 

Footwork is something hard to learn for the ZBS but really, it's not that hard. For what it's worth, Gino's footwork was really good. He just wasn't strong enough. KO was doing pretty well until his back injury started affecting his play. His footwork was also pretty good.

 

The ZBS failed for us not because of footwork, surprisingly. It failed because our interior wasn't strong enough, and our athletic RT somehow has terrible footwork. 

[redravenfan]

Didn't know where to put this but Cam Cameron might have suggested our our line coaches to LSU.

 

http://www.nola.com/lsu/index.ssf/2014/01/lsu_may_be_considering_baltimo.html

I hope Moeller does get the job I think he got shafted big time.

[redravenfan]

according to the links zone blocking depends on footwork.

 

oher,osemele, mckinnie dont really have the best footwork .....

gino is also questionable at best....

 

id say the scheme did not really fit the personell we had.

 

depening on who you ask its either the scheme set the personell up to fail or we simply did not had the personell to run the scheme we wanted.

 

personally im with the first group who thinks scheme should be based on the strengths of the personall at hand and not to force a scheme on personell we dont look to have what it takes to be good in it.

We definitely set Gino up for failure this year. he didn't stand a chance he took an entire year trying to learn  only for things to change ,new blocking scheme, new terminology,  plus starting No one can perform well when they are overloaded and he most definitely was. But in all fairness we didn't have  allot of depth to fall back on once KO went out , Shipley couldn't replace Gino Jensen has a injured foot he can't help .Jah Reid ,i'm not even going there lol. the rest of your post I agree with at some point you have to stop the madness.

[Tru11]

what is up with jah reid lol.

 

the only time i notice he is on the team is when i play a game of madden......

 

anyone have any idea what his status is with this team?

[BloodRaven]

what is up with jah reid lol.

 

the only time i notice he is on the team is when i play a game of madden......

 

anyone have any idea what his status is with this team?

 

Riding the pine.

[Tru11]

Riding the pine.

 

wasent he an athletic guy as well?

maybe he can play in the zone scheme.....

[BloodRaven]

wasent he an athletic guy as well?

maybe he can play in the zone scheme.....

 

He has KO's size but he's neither athletic or mobile, dude was running a 5.4 forty even before the injuries slowed him down.