Keep WRs Smith and Brown, cut everyone else and start anew (what do you think?)

[jdynamite]

(Just the WR core were talking about here)

Would replacing the majority of the WR roster help our passing game? I know our biggest issue comes along the Oline but think about this:

The most common issue was that WRs were not able to get separation - coverage sacks are not the fault of the Oline, its the WRs.

In addition, Deonte was a great option but never able to stay on the field due to the injury bug - and last year had not really proved himself to be a consistent down field threat either.

JJ, who makes great a return man, have not turned his ability into enough game changing plays this season to really deserve a #2 spot(or any spot higher than #3 really.

Doss exploded for a few games and then fizzled out. In addition, I never really saw the consistent hands the coaches raved about in training camp. - Too many drops since the SB to really have trust in him.

Stokley is retiring so there is not much to say there. - Great man, great career, sometimes you just gotta know when to hang them up.

Would it be that far off that via the draft and FA that we replace these spots with more suitable WRs that can get Flacco to the point in which he can be that QB we expected to come along with that 120M price tag? What say you Ravens nation?

At times coverage sacks may have occurred this year, they occur with every team, however " the old WR separation " thing has been beaten to death by Fans on here for the last few years.

The real problem was and still is play-calling, players have to be put in positions to succeed. Coaches have to adjust schemes and play-calling to their WRs strengths and talents. Example for years Cam Cameron took D.Mason, A.Boldin and forced them to run constant streaks, 10 yd curls and digs with little speed to threaten the DBs they just sat on those routes. Even this year we lacked creativity in play-calling anytime Torrey smith caught a crossing route he took it 10-25 yds yet we rarely called them, no pick or rub routes, quick slants to soften the underneath coverage.

The patriots and Chargers don't have any speed WRs to "create separation" but they run various route combinations to free guys up underneath or over the middle.

With all the new nfl rules to protect WRs, lack of contact the no separation thing is silly.

Torrey Smith is blazing fast but send him down field on the same 2 or 3 routes streak, curl, dig without putting him in motion or line up in different areas and it becomes harder to get him open.

As for the other WRs:

I previously stated I don't want the team to tie down serious money to Jacoby as a WR anything he is given should be on the strength of him being a ST player first and part time WR second. Jacoby is a playmaker for us but he isn't a consistent receiving threat.

Brown has always been a talented player but while in college he was constantly injured, he became a solid contributor for us and I believe he can become even better next year as redzone target and mid-field option over the middle.

Doss had his moments this year and he did fizzle out as you said, so he is back to square one competing for a job.

Thompson is potential that we may never see, an ankle injury lingers for 6 or 7 weeks upon coming back another injury setback seems to just be the story for him.

[jdynamite]

Whoever is brought in, the play-calling has to improve. PFF just released an article on screens during the regular season. The team got 102 yards off RB screens, good for a respectable 13th. How did they do in WR yards? An embarrassing 34th out of 38 QBs that threw the rock. The team got 24 screen yards from WRs.

Torrey isn't a YAC beast like Demaryius Thomas or Dez Bryant but he's more than capable of picking up yards after the catch. Same goes Jacoby and even Marlon.

This is a great point, it goes right with my thoughts on lack of creativity and route combinations to get the players in position to succeed. We don't do many WR screens and when we did it seemed to be at odd moments over thrown or something.

Smoke screens or down field pick plays are easy ways to get the ball into a WR hands quickly and allow them to just gain yards.

It's like we get a glimpse of Torrey's ability with rare crossing routes go for big yards then it takes another 2 games before we see that again.

The coaches could use Torrey in a variety of ways similar to how Desean Jackson is used, or Antonio Brown. They are put in motion at times to create mismatches lined up in the slot motion to the slot, screens, slants, crosses, run-routes, double moves. Using more underneath routes would eventually cause defense to focus on that Torrey can go deep.

At times it seems we do the opposite we go deep, go deep then finally something short.

[RedFire]

But if these theoretical new guys can't run block well...they are no more qualified IMO to be a Raven. We saw what happen when the steelers went all speed guys and forgoed run blocking receivers.

[jazz1988]

Thats the thing though, a lot of these guys are not rookies, they were here last year and still had the same issues. Doss dropped passes in the SB, Deonte cannot seem to stay off IR, and Jones is a big play threat but compared to the production he provides outside of KR and PR, its not worth his current salary. Besides, De'Anthony Thomas could drop to us in the draft and he would be much cheaper and younger, and faster then our own dragonfly.

 

Deonte never was placed on I.R he had some injuries this year but never was on I.R and Doss didn't drop a passes in the SB I thought that was the playoff game against the colts but any way . I don't think Deonte injury or Doss drop passes should be enough discredit the fact that none of our receivers were used in a way that suit  there strength consistently .

[The Raven]

But if these theoretical new guys can't run block well...they are no more qualified IMO to be a Raven. We saw what happen when the steelers went all speed guys and forgoed run blocking receivers.

 

What happened?

[cushrinada1986]

Word is Maclin is heading back to Philly.

NNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!

[K-Dog]

I am anxious to see Aaron Mellette get back on the field.

[Chris K]

I don't know why anyone considers Mellette to be a viable WR in our lineup... maybe as a #4? 

Was he good in the pre-season? Yes. Good enough to be a starter? Far from it.

 

Ozzie needs to ditch his reputation of drafting expendable 4th,5th,6th round offensive skill players that never do anything and always just have "potential." We NEED a dependable star WR who can come in and start Day 1 opposite Torrey. Brown will develop into a fine WR2 Talent but we need a guy like Mike Evans who can come in and dominate. If you want to open up the pass, you need someone to actually catch those passes.and be a dominant talent.

 

Point is, I realllly don't want to see Ozzie bring in some third rate trash "talent" who can't stay healthy or ball this off season. 

[The Raven]

I don't know why anyone considers Mellette to be a viable WR in our lineup... maybe as a #4? 

Was he good in the pre-season? Yes. Good enough to be a starter? Far from it.

 

Ozzie needs to ditch his reputation of drafting expendable 4th,5th,6th round offensive skill players that never do anything and always just have "potential." We NEED a dependable star WR who can come in and start Day 1 opposite Torrey. Brown will develop into a fine WR2 Talent but we need a guy like Mike Evans who can come in and dominate. If you want to open up the pass, you need someone to actually catch those passes.and be a dominant talent.

 

Point is, I realllly don't want to see Ozzie bring in some third rate trash "talent" who can't stay healthy or ball this off season. 

 

If you think Mike Evans will come in and dominate you're sadly mistaken. Sorry!

[Chris K]

If you think Mike Evans will come in and dominate you're sadly mistaken. Sorry!

 

He's got the physical tools, what exactly would limit him? Plus it's not exactly limited to him, there's a few receivers that are worthy of top 15 picks.

[rmw10]

He's got the physical tools, what exactly would limit him? Plus it's not exactly limited to him, there's a few receivers that are worthy of top 15 picks.

 

Head to the draft boards and read up on what a lot of people are saying.  To spare tons of writing and to not make this thread totally about the draft, he's very raw.  He needs a lot of improvement in route running.  He's not all that fast.  While he's physical, most of his plays are downfield and size may not win him those match ups in the NFL.

[The Raven]

He's got the physical tools, what exactly would limit him? Plus it's not exactly limited to him, there's a few receivers that are worthy of top 15 picks.

 

His quickness and speed would limit him, in my opinion. 

 

But hey, there are a lot of receivers out there that could help.

[Free Agent]

Word is Maclin is heading back to Philly.

 

Both Maclin and Cooper? I'm sure both will be wanting sizable contracts, so I sort of expected Philly to only retain one of them.

[gabefergy]

Both Maclin and Cooper? I'm sure both will be wanting sizable contracts, so I sort of expected Philly to only retain one of them.

Just Maclin from what I have heard, but I did read that Cooper wants to go back too. I don't think either will be able to command that big of a contract. Maclin has dealt with injuries throughout his career and Cooper hadn't done much at all until this season.

[HomeoftheBRAVENS]

Torrey Smith,Kenny Britt(would be 2014's Daryl Smith),Marlon Brown,Cody Hoffman(a second round pick),Aaron Mellette and Deonte Thompson.That needs to be our wr corp next year.It probably wont happen,but if it did,our wr corp would rival Denver's and Atl's.

[MrDelDante]

If Britt bucks his ideas up and gets his head down he's be a great asset.

[Ed_Reed20]

If Britt bucks his ideas up and gets his head down he's be a great asset.

 

He might be worth taking a flier on but he hasn't looked the same since his ACL tear in '11. 

[rmw10]

He might be worth taking a flier on but he hasn't looked the same since his ACL tear in '11.

Britt wouldn't be bad on a 1 year, prove it deal. Maybe like a Rolando McClain type contract. I'd be open to it.

[tkr]

(Just the WR core were talking about here)

Would replacing the majority of the WR roster help our passing game? I know our biggest issue comes along the Oline but think about this:

The most common issue was that WRs were not able to get separation - coverage sacks are not the fault of the Oline, its the WRs.

In addition, Deonte was a great option but never able to stay on the field due to the injury bug - and last year had not really proved himself to be a consistent down field threat either.

JJ, who makes great a return man, have not turned his ability into enough game changing plays this season to really deserve a #2 spot(or any spot higher than #3 really.

Doss exploded for a few games and then fizzled out. In addition, I never really saw the consistent hands the coaches raved about in training camp. - Too many drops since the SB to really have trust in him.

Stokley is retiring so there is not much to say there. - Great man, great career, sometimes you just gotta know when to hang them up.

Would it be that far off that via the draft and FA that we replace these spots with more suitable WRs that can get Flacco to the point in which he can be that QB we expected to come along with that 120M price tag? What say you Ravens nation?

If you continue to throw deep one can't blame the OLine all the time. You have between 4 and 6 seconds to get rid of the ball and when you do not use screens or quick slants the defense just whales at you and the rush is just to great. No Flacco needs to throw short quick passes to off set a pass rush. Look at FS last night. The reason they won was because the QB changed up and started throwing short. Their rac was amazing and in the end it was the short game that won it for them

[baltimorefan328]

I'm sorry the main reason why our wideouts couldn't get separation was because our offensive coordinator suck when it came to calling creative or non predictable passing plays. Torrey Smith, Marlon Brown, Jacoby Jones, Tandon Doss, and Deonte Thompson in my opinion would have been much better  if our offensive coordinator would had called better passing plays.

This is absolutely the major reason in my opinion. I know you never want penalties, but I can't remember if the Ravens got an offensive pass interference call this year. I say this because if we did, it would probably mean the offensive scheme was attempting to run those "pick" or "rub" plays, showing that the scheme was at least trying to get guys open. I can't stand the deep throws for the sake of throwing deep anymore. IMO torrey smith can be an amazing YAC guy, thinking back to that Bengals game i believe his rookie year when he caught a slant and Pacman jones barely brought smith down by his dreds. Torrey split the corner and safety there and nearly turned a 7 yard slant into a like 60 yard TD catch. The scheme of just have Torrey run downfield into double coverage will not be successful.

 

A true number 1 can play all over the field, Dez bryant, Calvin Johnson...guys like that spend time in the slot as well as the outside. I really do believe Torrey is an athletic freak who can highpoint the ball when given a chance, but he also has the speed to turn 5 yard catches into huge yards after the catch, but the scheme does not allow for this. Its just so hard to make an argument anymore for the lack of talent at WR when other teams have been able to create offensive schemes to maximize the talent they have. I mean the redskins, browns, falcons...all these teams had arguably better passing attacks than the Ravens and those teams dont exactly have the best weapons. Redskins dont have much, browns dont have much with the exception of gordon and cameron, and the falcons had julio jones out for most of the season and roddy white was constantly injured. The Ravens need a new scheme, a new offensive philosophy, and a new and innovative coach to lead that movement. I think with smith, brown, thompson, possibly jones/doss, mellete, and a draft pick, this receiving corps can succeed with the right scheme and play calling 

[Kid87]

Torrey, Marlon, Mellete, maybe Jacoby..

[HoldingCall]

If the offensive line is a bust, the team is a bust. Everything starts with the front five. They suck the whole team sucks.

 

Yes, I understand and agree. I stated it the way that I did because not every bad offensive play or series can be blamed on the OL this season, there were others who had their share of occasional bad performances. 

[HoldingCall]

Smith, Brown, and Jones. I list Jones because he is a play maker of the type that is fairly rare.

[callahan09]

I just want us to have a real, actual #1 go-to receiver.  Torrey Smith is not that guy.  The completion percentage on his targets this season was just 47.4%.  That's the lowest in the NFL among all players with at least 100 pass targets (out of 45 players).  Julian Edelmen, on the other hand, led the league with a 69.5% catch percentage on 151 targets.  And people said Tom Brady had to suffer without any reliable weapons this year...  Pshaw.  His number 1 guy was the most reliable number 1 in the league, Flacco's was the least reliable.  Smith actually ranked 399th out of all 483 players were targeted for at least 1 pass this year.  Out of players targeted at least 20 times, he was 218th out of 235.

 

Over the span of his 3 year NFL career, he catches just 48.0% of passes targeting him.   That is 615th out of 775 players who have been targeted at least once.   Nobody has been targeted more and caught a lower percentage of passes.

 

You have to go down to Denarius Moore (276 targets vs Torrey's 342; ranked 41st in targets vs Torrey's 25th) to find someone with a lower completion percentage among the top targeted receivers.  The next guy on the list with a worse completion percentage than Smith is Santonio Holmes (201 targets, the 79th most).  

 

All told, out of 139 players with at least 135 pass targets over the past 3 years, Torrey Smith has the 4th worst completion percentage on his targets.

 

Edit: Now, I would like to add that I understand a lot of this has to do with the offense and system we run here, and how that offense uses a receiver like Torrey Smith.  He's our "deep ball" receiver, for the most part. That means a lot of missed passes, thus the low completion percentage.  But that's besides the point.  I'm not saying Torrey is a bad reciver due to this low completion percentage... I think he is a very good receiver, in fact.  I'm saying that he is not a NUMBER ONE receiver, and we *NEED* a number one receiver.  He isn't a possession receiver, he isn't a move the chains receiver, he isn't reliable... he is a guy that helps your other receivers out due to his big playmaking ability, he commands coverage and gameplanning... he is a guy who can break the big play.  But he isn't a guy that, when you just need to move the damn chains, you can rely on.  He just isn't.  And we need that kind of number one receiver.

[Ed_Reed20]

I just want us to have a real, actual #1 go-to receiver.  Torrey Smith is not that guy.  The completion percentage on his targets this season was just 47.4%.  That's the lowest in the NFL among all players with at least 100 pass targets (out of 45 players).  Julian Edelmen, on the other hand, led the league with a 69.5% catch percentage on 151 targets.  And people said Tom Brady had to suffer without any reliable weapons this year...  Pshaw.  His number 1 guy was the most reliable number 1 in the league, Flacco's was the least reliable.  Smith actually ranked 399th out of all 483 players were targeted for at least 1 pass this year.  Out of players targeted at least 20 times, he was 218th out of 235.

 

Not sure whether you have a PFF subscription or access to a site that has this info, but where was Torrey in terms of depth per target? Not to say the amount of deep targets he had fully explains his low completion percentage to targets ratio, but it had to have to played a factor. 

[ratedr]

Yes, it's time to cut ties with all of these underachievers. We need to learn our lesson and stop taking guys in the middle rounds and hoping our horrible coaches can develop them. We have never developed a mid round-late round WR... EVER!!!! Marlon is the closest, and he is far from a complete receiver. Its partly the players and partly the coaches.... But I think it's time to move on. There is a plethora of talent at the WR position in the draft, and we could defiantly use an upgrade.

Agreed. Stop taking mid and late round projects and get some real talent.

I would like Jacoby to stay though because of his special teams impact.

[jimjim5]

I don't know why anyone considers Mellette to be a viable WR in our lineup... maybe as a #4? 

Was he good in the pre-season? Yes. Good enough to be a starter? Far from it.

 

Ozzie needs to ditch his reputation of drafting expendable 4th,5th,6th round offensive skill players that never do anything and always just have "potential." We NEED a dependable star WR who can come in and start Day 1 opposite Torrey. Brown will develop into a fine WR2 Talent but we need a guy like Mike Evans who can come in and dominate. If you want to open up the pass, you need someone to actually catch those passes.and be a dominant talent.

 

Point is, I realllly don't want to see Ozzie bring in some third rate trash "talent" who can't stay healthy or ball this off season. 

 

I think they had too much invested in Doss and Thompson to give the nod to Mellette over them. i think brown was an equal playmaker, but less of a risk because he played Div 1. This is why they put Mellete on the squad at the beginning of the year, then immediately hid him by putting him on IR. Mellete has the skills, they just "redshirted" him because they thought their vested guys could come through this year.

 

Look pass the fodder.

[rmw10]

I think they had too much invested in Doss and Thompson to give the nod to Mellette over them. i think brown was an equal playmaker, but less of a risk because he played Div 1. This is why they put Mellete on the squad at the beginning of the year, then immediately hid him by putting him on IR. Mellete has the skills, they just "redshirted" him because they thought their vested guys could come through this year.

Look pass the fodder.

Not going to talk about who should be over who and all of that, but Mellette was actually injured. He had knee surgery and was going to miss 4-6 weeks I believe, but at the time, we were short at WR and someone had to go to make room. It wasn't the typical "stash"

[jimjim5]

Not going to talk about who should be over who and all of that, but Mellette was actually injured. He had knee surgery and was going to miss 4-6 weeks I believe, but at the time, we were short at WR and someone had to go to make room. It wasn't the typical "stash"

 

Thanks. I do remember that now. I was thinking when they first IR'ed him so soon, they wanted Doss back. I guess if he truly wasn't hurt, Doss wouldn't be here. I guess that plays into the thought that Mellete is ready.

[rmw10]

Thanks. I do remember that now. I was thinking when they first IR'ed him so soon, they wanted Doss back. I guess if he truly wasn't hurt, Doss wouldn't be here. I guess that plays into the thought that Mellete is ready.

I'm not sure. I think it's possible that he would have been placed on IR even if he wasn't hurt. It could have been pure coincidence. Either way, I'm not sure they're counting on Mellette to be an answer. He'll get his shot in training camp, and while he probably has a bit of a leg up, he's guaranteed nothing.