Myth Busters

[FlocksGottaFeed]

 

 

This is still a board where discussion is supposed to flow, so I think it's okay if their is discussion or speculation. Moderator 3 hasn't said otherwise yet.

 

Just as I thought. Fact!

[BmoreBird22]

Myth: Ray Rice has "lost it".

Fact: no one did squat running the ball this year so we don't know if it's myth or fact.

One does have to wonder whether or not Ray Rice is done. He frequently showed no burst and was hesitant to hit holes. He showed limited vision, and when he was able to find a hole or cutback lane, he was often brought down by arm tackles. The offensive line surely didn't help, but one has to wonder whether this was just an off year or a sign of things to come. I guess we'll see.

[Moderator 3]

This is still a board where discussion is supposed to flow, so I think it's okay if their is discussion or speculation. Moderator 3 hasn't said otherwise yet.

I've tried to, gently. The idea was to debunk some of the myths that float around. I think a number of members want to play and would prefer the opinions be posted in the other threads that are already in process.

[BmoreBird22]

 

I've tried to, gently. The idea was to debunk some of the myths that float around. I think a number of members want to play and would prefer the opinions be posted in the other threads that are already in process.

Yeah, I see what you mean, but in my opinion, it's hard to debunk some of these myths without the discussion going on. A lot of the myths that people come up with are based on opinion and can't be entirely factually proved, such as many of the myths about Juan Castillo and the running game.

I'll try my best to keep it on track, but it almost seems a little hard.

[Jokerraven]

 Myth ;Joe Flacco is not a leader and sits on the sideline looking bored (insert adjective here) between offensive series

 

Fact: Joe interacts with his receivers going over routes if they make a mistake he corrects them . explains how he wants them ran.

 

If you are fortunate to attend a game you will see this not every series , but if he threw a pick he is going over the pictures? (not sure what that is) but also on the behind the bench clips you can see this. he's just not a vocal leader.

[ravensdfan]

It's not totally unreasonable to say that if Flacco hadn't demanded such a large contract, the FO might have felt more comfortable with extending Boldin for a year or two and pushing some of his cap hit into the future.

 

Here's the simplistic reasoning that I am arguing against:

 

Person A: If Flacco hadn't demanded a huge contract we might have been able to keep Boldin.

 

Person B: Not true! Flacco's cap hit this season is only $6.8 million, it had nothing to do with us losing Boldin!

 

 

Person B is oversimplifying the situation. The FO is not only concerned with this season and next season. They have to plan according to their future obligations. With Flacco's contract, we have large future obligations that must be accounted for. It's really not that difficult to understand, I don't know why some are so unwilling to admit that Flacco's contract is a significant burden. You don't get something for nothing.

 

Fact: It was the last year of Boldin's contract.

Fact 2: That makes your argument about the FO thinking of the future moot.

Fact 3: Flacco's contract therefore, had zero to do with cutting Boldin.

[PerpetuallyBored74]

Subtitle: wide-spread erroneous beliefs.

Saw something in another thread earlier that I know to be widely believed, but untrue, got me thinking about starting this thread. Every day we see things in the forums that are just not true. I'll start with one that chaps me and I hope you will contribute more. Maybe we can fight ignorance together.

Myth 1: Oher is a penalty machine/false starts every game.

Truth: in 2013 Michael Oher was penalized a total of 6 times. Only 3 of those were false starts and they were ALL in the same game (possible officiating issue?). Oher had 4 false starts in 2012. In comparison, Yanda was penalized 7 times and 5 of those were false starts this past year. He has 3 false starts in 2012.

 

This is true however:

 

"Oher allowed a team-high eight sacks and 42 quarterback hurries this season, according to Pro Football Focus.

He had five penalties this season, but is the most frequently penalized player in the NFL since entering the NFL."

 

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/ravens-insider/bal-pending-free-agent-michael-oher-says-hes-enjoyed-being-a-raven-uncertain-if-hell-remain-one-20131230,0,3835210.story

[flynismo]

This is true however:

"Oher allowed a team-high eight sacks and 42 quarterback hurries this season, according to Pro Football Focus.

He had five penalties this season, but is the most frequently penalized player in the NFL since entering the NFL."

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/ravens-insider/bal-pending-free-agent-michael-oher-says-hes-enjoyed-being-a-raven-uncertain-if-hell-remain-one-20131230,0,3835210.story

The sad thing is, those numbers are pretty dang bad for a LEFT tackle. For a right tackle, that is the kind of performance that puts you on the unemployment line....permanently. if this is what he is doing in his prime...wow.

[Gorillaz MD]

Myth: Torrey Smith, Jacoby Jones, and Marlon Brown form an above average group of receivers.

 

Fact: I can name a receiver from every team who is better than Torrey. (Yes these names are debatable, I'm just trying to make a point)

 

AFCE: Mike Wallace, Jeremy Kerley, Stevie Johnson, Danny Amendola

AFCN: AJ Green, Antonio Brown, Josh Gordon

AFCS: Reggie Wayne, Andre Johnson, Nate Washington, Justin Blackmon

AFCW: Demarius Thomas, Dwayne Bowe, Denarius Moore

 

NFCE: Victor Cruz, Desean Jackson, Pierre Garcon, Dez Bryant

NFCN: Jordy Nelson, Greg Jennings, Calvin Johnson, Brandon Marshall

NFCS: Julio Jones, Marques Colston, Steve Smith, Vincent Jackson

NFCW: Golden Tate, Michael Crabtree, Larry Fitzgerald, Tavon Austin

 

I like our guys, but let's be honest. There's a LOT of overlooked talent on the other 31 teams. Tandon Doss did not make Green Bay's roster, and I think he's actually our 2nd best receiver. Add a true #1 WR to our group and THEN we have a nice cast.

I was surprised when I was only able to grab 2 recievers off that list that I think without a doubt aren't better than Torrey. Jeremey Kerley and Golden Tate.

[AlaskanRavensFan]

It's not totally unreasonable to say that if Flacco hadn't demanded such a large contract, the FO might have felt more comfortable with extending Boldin for a year or two and pushing some of his cap hit into the future.

 

Here's the simplistic reasoning that I am arguing against:

 

Person A: If Flacco hadn't demanded a huge contract we might have been able to keep Boldin.

 

Person B: Not true! Flacco's cap hit this season is only $6.8 million, it had nothing to do with us losing Boldin!

 

 

Person B is oversimplifying the situation. The FO is not only concerned with this season and next season. They have to plan according to their future obligations. With Flacco's contract, we have large future obligations that must be accounted for. It's really not that difficult to understand, I don't know why some are so unwilling to admit that Flacco's contract is a significant burden. You don't get something for nothing.

 

Using Bolding is a poor example though, because he was only signed through this year. Not signing Ellerbe and Kruger would make more sense for your argument. 

 

Something to take into consideration. The FO may not have signed those players anyways since high profile FA's are almost always overvalued. Kruger and Ellerbe are perfect examples. Ellerbe was an undrafted FA that only saw starting time in two seasons, which were mostly due to injury. Kruger was considered a bust until last year when he had a solid late season and playoff run. (I liked both of them by the way, but don't think they were worth what they got paid)

[Tru11]

Myth 2: Run game issues lie on Castillo

 

Personnel is why we sucked this year. Oher has never been good since his rookie year, Gino was unproven but apparently admired by the FO, and KO got injured.  Even Yanda had struggles earlier in the year because of his rotator cuff.

 

Castillo's scheme worked with the Eagles and ZBS has worked wonders with the Texans. We've used the ZBS scheme in the past as well. Castillo, in fact, added wrinkles to help. The guy was such a good O-Line coach, the eagles thought he could coach defense. 

 

Look at the PFF grades, you can't run the ball if three starters are in double negatives.  Castillo was an undeserving scapegoat. 

 

Fact: Castillo last 5 years as the o-line coach he almost got the QB murderd with his crap.

2006 eagles gave up 28 sacks

2007 it was 49

2008 it was 23

2009 it was 38

2010 it was 49

[Willbacker]

Fact: It was the last year of Boldin's contract.

Fact 2: That makes your argument about the FO thinking of the future moot.

Fact 3: Flacco's contract therefore, had zero to do with cutting Boldin.

Boldin had 2 years left on his contract when traded. He signed a 5 year deal upon arrival. Played 3.

[ravensdfan]

Boldin had 2 years left on his contract when traded. He signed a 5 year deal upon arrival. Played 3.

 

He signed a 3 yr deal with one year left on his previous contract making it a 4 yr deal. It was the last year of his contract.

 

"On March 5, 2010 Boldin was traded to the Baltimore Ravens for the Ravens third and fourth round picks in the 2010 NFL Draft. The Ravens also received a fifth round pick from the Cardinals as part of the deal. Boldin agreed to a three-year deal worth $25 million, in addition to the one year he had left on his then-current deal, bringing the total deal to $28 million over 4 years, with $10 million guaranteed."

[Willbacker]

He signed a 3 yr deal with one year left on his previous contract making it a 4 yr deal. It was the last year of his contract.

 

"On March 5, 2010 Boldin was traded to the Baltimore Ravens for the Ravens third and fourth round picks in the 2010 NFL Draft. The Ravens also received a fifth round pick from the Cardinals as part of the deal. Boldin agreed to a three-year deal worth $25 million, in addition to the one year he had left on his then-current deal, bringing the total deal to $28 million over 4 years, with $10 million guaranteed."

I stand corrected.

[Moderator 3]

I stand corrected.

And that's the purpose of this thread. We're trying to correct misconceptions.

[ravensdfan]

I stand corrected.

 

It's all good.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love Boldin. Wish we could have found a way to keep him, but sometimes it just doesn't work out that way.

[K-Dog]

And that's the purpose of this thread. We're trying to correct misconceptions.

FACT

[ravensdfan]

Fact: Castillo last 5 years as the o-line coach he almost got the QB murderd with his crap.

2006 eagles gave up 28 sacks

2007 it was 49

2008 it was 23

2009 it was 38

2010 it was 49

 

I find this very telling & disturbing.

[Moderator 3]

Myth: the defense was worn out in the 4th quarter because the offense couldn't stay on the field.

Fact: TOP was generally in our favor going into the 4th quarter and didn't shift until the defense gave up a long drive. Also fact: the overall TOP for the year was darn near even.

[BmoreBird22]

Myth: the defense was worn out in the 4th quarter because the offense couldn't stay on the field.

Fact: TOP was generally in our favor going into the 4th quarter and didn't shift until the defense gave up a long drive. Also fact: the overall TOP for the year was darn near even.

This is something I tried to preach all year long. In several games like Green Bay, Pittsburgh, etc. where the opposing team made this long drive to win the game because the defense couldn't get off the field, TOP was heavily favored by the Ravens before those final drives. I think it would be demoralize for the offense to not score, but that defense was not tired.

[Tank 92]

Myth: Ray Rice has "lost it".

Fact: no one did squat running the ball this year so we don't know if it's myth or fact.

 

Watching RR play this year I think it would be hard to not recognize it is a fact that he totally sucked. Last Sunday, I was beside myself watching him just fall down before contact. He played very little in the game and should have been fresh. I just don't get it. Moving forward, it doesn't mean he can't fix whatever the heck the issue is(fingers crossed!), but he was a total bust this season.

[TXRavensFan]

Watching RR play this year I think it would be hard to not recognize it is a fact that he totally sucked. Last Sunday, I was beside myself watching him just fall down before contact. He played very little in the game and should have been fresh. I just don't get it. Moving forward, it doesn't mean he can't fix whatever the heck the issue is(fingers crossed!), but he was a total bust this season.

Watching him fly off his feet when he ran into Yanda's butt was just embarrassing.

I'm not prepared to say he's done, the O-line was so bad this year it affected everyone. However, something was clearly not right with him this year, whether it was the injuries, or all that extra bulk throwing off his balance. Either way, he needs to figure it out and fix it. Hopefully, with better O-line play, he'll be back to form for next year.

[TXRavensFan]

Myth: the defense was worn out in the 4th quarter because the offense couldn't stay on the field.

Fact: TOP was generally in our favor going into the 4th quarter and didn't shift until the defense gave up a long drive. Also fact: the overall TOP for the year was darn near even.

I just mentioned this on another thread. In the last two games, we lost the total TOP to Cincy by under 4 minutes, and had the ball 2 minutes longer than the Pats in that loss.

[Tank 92]

Watching him fly off his feet when he ran into Yanda's butt was just embarrassing.

I'm not prepared to say he's done, the O-line was so bad this year it affected everyone. However, something was clearly not right with him this year, whether it was the injuries, or all that extra bulk throwing off his balance. Either way, he needs to figure it out and fix it. Hopefully, with better O-line play, he'll be back to form for next year.

 

 

The O line issue is definitely what killed the running game as a whole, but RR would fall down before contact in the open field!  You really can't attribute his problems to line play.  I hope he gets straight.

[jimmypowder]

Myth: Suggs & Doom are best buddies.

[1/28/01]

Myth: Some players are infallible

Truth: Every player has flaws

[FlocksGottaFeed]

Fact: Castillo last 5 years as the o-line coach he almost got the QB murderd with his crap.

2006 eagles gave up 28 sacks

2007 it was 49

2008 it was 23

2009 it was 38

2010 it was 49

Fact:

Castillo was not O-Line Coach in 2006, 2007 (John Harbargh), 2008 Doug Pederson, 2009 Doug Pederson, 2010 Doug Pederson

 

Fact: Under Castillo Philadelphia’s offense set franchise records in total points (439), total net yards (6,230), and yards per rush (5.4, the NFL’s top mark). With each of the team’s primary running backs averaging more than 5.0 yards per attempt, the Eagles became the first team in NFL history to average at least 4.0 yards per carry in all 16 regular season games, helping LT Jason Peters earn his second-straight Pro Bowl nod. Under Castillo, four linemen earned their firstcareer

Pro Bowl honors: Tra Thomas, Jermane Mayberry, Jon Runyan and Shawn Andrews.

 

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/team/coaches/Juan-Castillo/71348012-38bb-4777-a474-61921f736f8d

[FlocksGottaFeed]

I disagree with this and there is allot of evidence to the contrary . we have used zone stretch plays in the past . Inside zone blocking is what the players failed to execute, Rice/Pierce up the middle loss of gain of 1 yard. the changes Juan made directly caused the run game and pass protection failures this year. this is not a myth

And this is not a fact. There are too many variables that 'could' have played a role in the run game collapse (Bad ZB audibles called on the line before the snap, bad play audibles and/or no QB audibles when we should have changed the play, better defensive reads, etc.).

[ravensdfan]

Fact:

Castillo was not O-Line Coach in 2006, 2007 (John Harbargh), 2008 Doug Pederson, 2009 Doug Pederson, 2010 Doug Pederson

 

Fact: Under Castillo Philadelphia’s offense set franchise records in total points (439), total net yards (6,230), and yards per rush (5.4, the NFL’s top mark). With each of the team’s primary running backs averaging more than 5.0 yards per attempt, the Eagles became the first team in NFL history to average at least 4.0 yards per carry in all 16 regular season games, helping LT Jason Peters earn his second-straight Pro Bowl nod. Under Castillo, four linemen earned their firstcareer

Pro Bowl honors: Tra Thomas, Jermane Mayberry, Jon Runyan and Shawn Andrews.

 

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/team/coaches/Juan-Castillo/71348012-38bb-4777-a474-61921f736f8d

 

 

hmmm...I found different.

 

"Castillo coached the offensive line for thirteen seasons, from 1998–2010."

 

98 - 56 sacks

99 - 49 sacks

00- 45 sacks

01 - 40 sacks

02 - 36 sacks

03 - 43 sacks

04- 37 sacks

05 - 42 sacks

06- 28 sacks (yay!)

07 - 49 sacks

08- 29 sacks

09 - 38 sacks

10- 49 sacks

 

That is really not a good resume for pass pro.

 

Rushing:

98 - 14th

99 - 17th

00 - 15th

01 - 14th

02 - 7th (yay!)

03 -9th

04 - 24th (ouch!)

05 - 28th

06 - 11th

07 -7th

08 - 22nd

09 - 22nd

10 - 5th

 

So out of 13 seasons, the running game broke the top 10 four times. Not a really good resume for run blocking either.

[FlocksGottaFeed]

hmmm...I found different.

 

"Castillo coached the offensive line for thirteen seasons, from 1998–2010."

Not in the years indicated. According to league records . In those years Castillo is listed as 'Notable Assistant'.

Ref: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/phi/2009.htm

Using this site you can go all the way back in history to a team's 1st game to the last game. Facts. Castillo was more known as technique 'Guru'. He is more accredited for making several linemen Pro Bowlers through precise technique and training regiments.