Myth Busters

[BmoreBird22]

I have a question .it could be a myth not sure  if I posted in the wrong spot I will delete. is there a special draft order , like qb's go first , te's second, etc etc  or can you draft anyone in any order? or is draft order a myth

Positions like quarterback and left tackle usually go first and often, but we have seen that teams do put a high emphasis on a good pass rusher and receiver, so it is not unheard of to see a DE/OLB go first or a wide receiver go top five. Heck, even a op flight cornerback can go top 10, and one has even gone first overall. Positions you will not see drafted too high, for the most part, are linebacker (inside), guard, defensive tackle, running back. A tight end would also have to be very gifted. Of course there are examples that go against those, such as Star Lotulelei, Jonathan Cooper and Chance Warmack, Luke Kuechly, and Vernon Davis, but those are more of an exception than a consistency.

Just about anything can happen on draft day.

[Jokerraven]

Positions like quarterback and left tackle usually go first and often, but we have seen that teams do put a high emphasis on a good pass rusher and receiver, so it is not unheard of to see a DE/OLB go first or a wide receiver go top five. Heck, even a op flight cornerback can go top 10, and one has even gone first overall. Positions you will not see drafted too high, for the most part, are linebacker (inside), guard, defensive tackle, running back. A tight end would also have to be very gifted. Of course there are examples that go against those, such as Star Lotulelei, Jonathan Cooper and Chance Warmack, Luke Kuechly, and Vernon Davis, but those are more of an exception than a consistency.

Just about anything can happen on draft day.

 

 

A team can take any player in any position with their pick. If a team wanted, they could draft a long snapper with the first overall pick in the draft.

 

 

You can draft anyone in any order. Certain positions like QB tend to get drafted earlier because they are deemed to have the most importance, but there is no order to which positions go when. 

 

The only draft order is the order of the teams.

thanks guys. I'm still learning appreciate the help

[JohnJohnson]

flacco's cap hit this past season was 6.8 million and next year it is 14.8 million. flacco's contract is not "crippling" this team . and before it does it will be redone.

 

Do I need to repeat myself? Do you truly believe that the impact of Flacco's contract is fully mitigated by the contract's "cap friendliness?" Yes, the contract will be redone, if Flacco is satisfied with the terms. If not, then the Ravens will be forced to choose between cutting Flacco and dealing with significant cap constraints. We're in that situation right now with Ngata and Suggs; we don't want to cut them and we're also hesitant to offer them the type of extension that they would likely demand if they were to agree to a restructured contract. You don't get something for nothing.

 

I never said that Flacco's contract was "crippling" this team. But it's certainly a significant issue.

[Bruce_Almty]

Myth: Dennis Pitta is a must sign, indispensable security blanket, outstanding TE.

 

Fact1: Dennis Pitta, along with the other Ravens of 2012, had a magical run to the Super Bowl and is a good friend of Joe Flacco.

 

Face2: Performance: in 2010 behind Todd Heap, 1 catch for 1 yard; in 2011, 40 catches for 405 yards and three touchdowns; in 2012, 61 catches, 669 yards, 7 TDs; 2013 IR (mostly).

 

Fact3: Dennis Pitta is an average TE, recovering from a serious injury and is replaceable.

 

Opinion: Not worth $7mil. (going rate for top tier TEs); Ravens should make him a right player, right price, fair offer and move on.

 

After reading some of the comments to this post, Pitta could easily be classified as a WR.

 

neg away.

[5aiah]

Myth: Dennis Pitta is a must sign, indispensable security blanket, outstanding TE.

 

Fact1: Dennis Pitta is along with the other Ravens of 2012 had a magical run to the Super Bowl and is a good friend of Joe Flacco.

 

Face2: Performance: in 2010 behind Todd Heap, 1 catch for 1 yard; in 2011, 40 catches for 405 yards and three touchdowns; in 2012, 61 catches, 669 yards, 7 TDs; 2013 IR (mostly).

 

Fact3: Dennis Pitta is an average TE, recovering from a serious injury and is replaceable.

He is a good TE. Great route runner and hands for a TE and has undeniable chemistry with Flacco. Is he replaceable in the Air Coryell system without another two possession receivers(one a TE the other a slot receiver) in place, no. Great route runners don't grow on trees. I don't think he is a must sign if Flacco already has other weapons in place but i highly doubt the FO can give him that just this year.

[runamuk]

Do I need to repeat myself? Do you truly believe that the impact of Flacco's contract is fully mitigated by the contract's "cap friendliness?" Yes, the contract will be redone, if Flacco is satisfied with the terms. If not, then the Ravens will be forced to choose between cutting Flacco and dealing with significant cap constraints. We're in that situation right now with Ngata and Suggs; we don't want to cut them and we're also hesitant to offer them the type of extension that they would likely demand if they were to agree to a restructured contract. You don't get something for nothing.

 

I never said that Flacco's contract was "crippling" this team. But it's certainly a significant issue.

 

no but apparently I do cause its obvious you did not read the topic of this thread or  what my post referred to . the myth on these boards is that flacco's contract is the reason we lost boldin and the reason we had a bad year because we can't pay for talent.   as for your opinion I'm not interested this thread is debunking myth with fact. your opinion is not needed facts only

[5aiah]

no but apparently I do cause its obvious you did not read the topic of this thread or  what my post referred to . the myth on these boards is that flacco's contract is the reason we lost boldin and the reason we had a bad year because we can't pay for talent.   as for your opinion I'm not interested this thread is debunking myth with fact. your opinion is not needed facts only

Thank you, can we stay on topic, this thread has huge potential.

[FlocksGottaFeed]

Note to Moderator: Great post, but I don't know how much 'fact' fans are capable of. "Passion faults 'facts' and inspires myths."

Good luck with this. I'll try to add more facts, but I must admit - I'm too passionate at times.

 

Great post without a doubt. It's got me thinking.

[BmoreBird22]

Myth: Dennis Pitta is a must sign, indispensable security blanket, outstanding TE.

 

Fact1: Dennis Pitta, along with the other Ravens of 2012, had a magical run to the Super Bowl and is a good friend of Joe Flacco.

 

Face2: Performance: in 2010 behind Todd Heap, 1 catch for 1 yard; in 2011, 40 catches for 405 yards and three touchdowns; in 2012, 61 catches, 669 yards, 7 TDs; 2013 IR (mostly).

 

Fact3: Dennis Pitta is an average TE, recovering from a serious injury and is replaceable.

 

Opinion: Ravens should make him a "fair" offer and move on.

Did not mean to neg you (not that it's important), but I do agree. People get really hyped over Dennis Pitta and I don't see why. His lack not blocking skills automatically drops his value by a fair amount, but his receiving is vastly overrated. He doesn't put up double digit touchdowns or taken over the game like some people make it seem. I wouldn't say he's a top ten tight end at all.

His 2012 numbers are misleading. People forget he scored two touchdowns and racked up a lot of yards in garbage time against the Denver Broncos, who shut him down when it mattered the most. Take that game away and we see that Pitta has almost under 500 yards and 5 touchdowns. Is that worthy of these ridiculous contracts of over $5 million that some people are talking about?

Factor in that he is coming off of a major hip injury and I think we could very well see a deal around 3 years, $10 million.

I think if he walks, he could easily be replaced and upgraded.

[5aiah]

Note to Moderator: Great post, but I don't know how much 'fact' fans are capable of. "Passion faults 'facts' and inspires myths."

Good luck with this. I'll try to add more facts, but I must admit - I'm too passionate at times.

 

Great post without a doubt. It's got me thinking.

That's the point of this thread. We can all check the "facts" and call out what is opinion and gain knowledge on our team in the process. I think the thread is great for Ravens Nation.

[FlocksGottaFeed]

Myth: The pros can predict the outcome of a Ravens season with complete accurancy.

Fact: It has never gone as predicted with complete accurancy.

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1715392-baltimore-ravens-2013-schedule-win-loss-predictions-for-every-game

 

Myth/Fact?: We always have better seasons as the underdog.

 

Note: I think I'm on to something here, but...?

[JohnJohnson]

no but apparently I do cause its obvious you did not read the topic of this thread or  what my post referred to . the myth on these boards is that flacco's contract is the reason we lost boldin and the reason we had a bad year because we can't pay for talent.   as for your opinion I'm not interested this thread is debunking myth with fact. your opinion is not needed facts only

 

It's not totally unreasonable to say that if Flacco hadn't demanded such a large contract, the FO might have felt more comfortable with extending Boldin for a year or two and pushing some of his cap hit into the future.

 

Here's the simplistic reasoning that I am arguing against:

 

Person A: If Flacco hadn't demanded a huge contract we might have been able to keep Boldin.

 

Person B: Not true! Flacco's cap hit this season is only $6.8 million, it had nothing to do with us losing Boldin!

 

 

Person B is oversimplifying the situation. The FO is not only concerned with this season and next season. They have to plan according to their future obligations. With Flacco's contract, we have large future obligations that must be accounted for. It's really not that difficult to understand, I don't know why some are so unwilling to admit that Flacco's contract is a significant burden. You don't get something for nothing.

[FlocksGottaFeed]

Did not mean to neg you (not that it's important), but I do agree. People get really hyped over Dennis Pitta and I don't see why. His lack not blocking skills automatically drops his value by a fair amount, but his receiving is vastly overrated. He doesn't put up double digit touchdowns or taken over the game like some people make it seem. I wouldn't say he's a top ten tight end at all.

His 2012 numbers are misleading. People forget he scored two touchdowns and racked up a lot of yards in garbage time against the Denver Broncos, who shut him down when it mattered the most. Take that game away and we see that Pitta has almost under 500 yards and 5 touchdowns. Is that worthy of these ridiculous contracts of over $5 million that some people are talking about?

Factor in that he is coming off of a major hip injury and I think we could very well see a deal around 3 years, $10 million.

I think if he walks, he could easily be replaced and upgraded.

Great points here, but there's nothing that defines the 'fact' as it relates to 'must sign' or not. It's all opinion with supportive facts to argue an opinion, but completely subjective overall. For example: Must sign could just be the relationships that he has on the team. For the FO and Flacco that may be the 'fact' that they believe will help the team. See what I mean? It's all subjective. Good thought though. This is one cool thread.

[gabefergy]

It's not totally unreasonable to say that if Flacco hadn't demanded such a large contract, the FO might have felt more comfortable with extending Boldin for a year or two and pushing some of his cap hit into the future.

 

Here's the simplistic reasoning that I am arguing against:

 

Person A: If Flacco hadn't demanded a huge contract we might have been able to keep Boldin.

 

Person B: Not true! Flacco's cap hit this season is only $6.8 million, it had nothing to do with us losing Boldin!

 

 

Person B is oversimplifying the situation. The FO is not only concerned with this season and next season. They have to plan according to their future obligations. With Flacco's contract, we have large future obligations that must be accounted for. It's really not that difficult to understand, I don't know why some are so unwilling to admit that Flacco's contract is a significant burden. You don't get something for nothing.

That's true, but Boldin was never in the long term plans of the team so extending him would be a bad move regardless of Flacco's contract. The point remains Flacco's contract does not become problematic until year 4 at which point it will either be restructured or he gets let go. Paying a Franchise QB 14.5M a year is perfectly reasonable, even cheap, if you look at what other QBs around the league are making. 

 

The real fact is players like Ngata and Rice are the ones with contracts that are hurting the team. 

[Tank 92]

It's not totally unreasonable to say that if Flacco hadn't demanded such a large contract, the FO might have felt more comfortable with extending Boldin for a year or two and pushing some of his cap hit into the future.

 

Here's the simplistic reasoning that I am arguing against:

 

Person A: If Flacco hadn't demanded a huge contract we might have been able to keep Boldin.

 

Person B: Not true! Flacco's cap hit this season is only $6.8 million, it had nothing to do with us losing Boldin!

 

 

Person B is oversimplifying the situation. The FO is not only concerned with this season and next season. They have to plan according to their future obligations. With Flacco's contract, we have large future obligations that must be accounted for. It's really not that difficult to understand, I don't know why some are so unwilling to admit that Flacco's contract is a significant burden. You don't get something for nothing.

 

 

Boldin's trade had more to do with rebuilding the D than anything else. Flacco was getting his deal with or without any move with Q.

 

That's true, but Boldin was never in the long term plans of the team so extending him would be a bad move regardless of Flacco's contract. The point remains Flacco's contract does not become problematic until year 4 at which point it will either be restructured or he gets let go. Paying a Franchise QB 14.5M a year is perfectly reasonable, even cheap, if you look at what other QBs around the league are making. 

 

The real fact is players like Ngata and Rice are the ones with contracts that are hurting the team. 

 

 

This is fact.  When you find a franchise QB you pay him as one or he goes elsewhere. Simple supply and demand economics. When a guy has had consistent PO and Championship success you don't let him go.

 

No savings in doing anything with RR or Haloti.  Suggs' contract is where savings could be realized..

[flynismo]

Myth: Dennis Pitta is a must sign, indispensable security blanket, outstanding TE.

Fact1: Dennis Pitta, along with the other Ravens of 2012, had a magical run to the Super Bowl and is a good friend of Joe Flacco.

Face2: Performance: in 2010 behind Todd Heap, 1 catch for 1 yard; in 2011, 40 catches for 405 yards and three touchdowns; in 2012, 61 catches, 669 yards, 7 TDs; 2013 IR (mostly).

Fact3: Dennis Pitta is an average TE, recovering from a serious injury and is replaceable.

Opinion: Not worth $7mil. (going rate for top tier TEs); Ravens should make him a right player, right price, fair offer and move on.

neg away.

Pitta is no Jimmy Graham, but I can promise you one thing, with the lack of talent we already have on offense, he will be sorely missed and is not easily replaceable.

[flynismo]

The thread was a good idea, unfortunately, it seems that some people cannot distinguish fact from opinion.

[Moderator 3]

Here's a point to consider before posting. Facts don't contain the words "if" or "I think".

[Jokerraven]

It would be a refreshing change to not have a flacco bashing session on every single thread ! FACT

[BmoreBird22]

Great points here, but there's nothing that defines the 'fact' as it relates to 'must sign' or not. It's all opinion with supportive facts to argue an opinion, but completely subjective overall. For example: Must sign could just be the relationships that he has on the team. For the FO and Flacco that may be the 'fact' that they believe will help the team. See what I mean? It's all subjective. Good thought though. This is one cool thread.

I realize it's all subjective and I have no control over negotiations, but it's fun to speculate on

[Tank 92]

Pitta is no Jimmy Graham, but I can promise you one thing, with the lack of talent we already have on offense, he will be sorely missed and is not easily replaceable.

 

 

Pitta has the surest hands on the Team. And he's a baller.  It would be foolish not to keep him as long as he is healthy.

[5aiah]

Pitta has the surest hands on the Team. And he's a baller.  It would be foolish not to keep him as long as he is healthy.

And runs the best routes of any receiver.

[BmoreBird22]

And runs the best routes of any receiver.

  

Pitta has the surest hands on the Team. And he's a baller.  It would be foolish not to keep him as long as he is healthy.

How much is this really saying given the state of our receiving corp?

[K-Dog]

FACT: I had fried Twinkies after dinner tonight.

 

OPINION: They were yummy.

 

MYTH: One person ( Flacco, Rice, Oher, Harbaugh, Pees ) can cost us the game.

[ravens533]

Myth: ____ is because Ray Lewis retired. Feel free to fill in the blank.

 

Fact: Daryl Smith was a better all around player than what Ray Lewis would have been.

         The team has done well with motivation without Ray's pregame talks.

         I see numerous players on the side lines encouraging one another and holding one another accoutable

[FlocksGottaFeed]

I realize it's all subjective and I have no control over negotiations, but it's fun to speculate on

I get that, but 'fact' or 'myth' seems to be more direct and other threads seem to be more of the same 'speculation' with passion driven opinions (some not so thought-out). That's cool there, but there's nothing more than presenting 'myth' and 'fact' and a real, unchallengable format. That would be productive. Everything else is 'blah, blah, blah...'. I think we can do this thing if we keep it real. You know...?

[BmoreBird22]

 

I get that, but 'fact' or 'myth' seems to be more direct and other threads seem to be more of the same 'speculation' with passion driven opinions (some not so thought-out). That's cool there, but there's nothing more than presenting 'myth' and 'fact' and a real, unchallengable format. That would be productive. Everything else is 'blah, blah, blah...'. I think we can do this thing if we keep it real. You know...?

In all honesty, I think most of what people post as "fact and myth" is subjective and left up for debate/speculation. That's just part of sports as it is. 

I mean, I posted what I believe to be true, but someone may disagree.
For example. Myth: Dennis Pitta is a top 10 tight end. 

Fact: Dennis Pitta is the fourth best tight end in his own division.

[Moderator 3]

Myth: Ray Rice has "lost it".

Fact: no one did squat running the ball this year so we don't know if it's myth or fact.

[FlocksGottaFeed]

 

 

In all honesty, I think most of what people post as "fact and myth" is subjective and left up for debate/speculation. That's just part of sports as it is. 

I mean, I posted what I believe to be true, but someone may disagree.

 

Cool. I really, really get that, but you know how you really know when you hit on a myth and contest it with a fact? Very few will respond, because most don't want to deal with facts. Facts don't open doors to opinion. A fact is a fact. Some fans here have posted actually facts to rebuke the myths. That's was up. Others are just out there in another thread where opinion rules and everything in between. That's cool, not factual input. Let's try this:

 

Myth: The Ravens did not make the playoffs because of Joe Flacco, Harb, OL, Caldwell and Rice.

Fact: The Ravens didn't make the playoffs, because we did not have a record this year that was enough to qualifiy based on other teams records in the active year and established NFL standards for qualification.

 

Let's see who get's this.

[BmoreBird22]

 

Cool. I really, really get that, but you know how you really know when you hit on a myth and contest it with a fact? Very few will respond, because most don't want to deal with facts. Facts don't open doors to opinion. A fact is a fact. Some fans here have posted actually facts to rebuke the myths. That's was up. Others are just out there in another thread where opinion rules and everything in between. That's cool, not factual input. Let's try this:

 

Myth: The Ravens did not make the playoffs because of Joe Flacco, Harb, OL, Caldwell and Rice.

Fact: The Ravens didn't make the playoffs, because we did not have a record this year that was enough to qualifiy based on other teams records in the active year and established NFL standards for qualification.

 

Let's see who get's this.

This is still a board where discussion is supposed to flow, so I think it's okay if their is discussion or speculation. Moderator 3 hasn't said otherwise yet.