Myth Busters

[Ravens1991]

Tavon Austin >>> Torrey Smith.  C'mon Man that is really pushing it.

[runamuk]

You are acting like they were looking to implement a system for the long run and not to even try to win this year. Thats probably the biggest myth we are going to see in this thread. They made lots of moves to win this year. Lots of short term signings and trades. Ate up virtually all the cap room. There was no plan to tank this year and fine tune things in the offseason. that's absurd. Castillo was brought in to tweak things with given set of personnel, not to create a system that would dictate ho would be the personnel going forward. Your logic makes sense if the system was broken, but not if the team just won a SuperBowl..

I don't think the coaches were trying to tank. when they made the decision to go to a zbs system zone stretch inside and outside . we had ko and just drafted Jensen who is perfect for that system . injuries derailed the changes. the zbs requires more athletic lineman , McKinnie was a bad fit. I don't think any coach imagined that one it would fail like it did or that we would miss the playoffs.

 

edit towards the end of the season it was starting to click in all fairness

[Moderator 3]

Noun

1. fact - a piece of information about circumstances that exist or events that have occurred; "first you must collect all the facts of the case"

2. fact - a statement or assertion of verified information about something that is the case or has happened; "he supported his argument with an impressive array of facts"

3. fact - an event known to have happened or something known to have existed; "your fears have no basis in fact"; "how much of the story is fact and how much fiction is hard to tell"

4. fact - a concept whose truth can be proved; "scientific hypotheses are not facts"

[Alexir]

Subtitle: wide-spread erroneous beliefs.

Saw something in another thread earlier that I know to be widely believed, but untrue, got me thinking about starting this thread. Every day we see things in the forums that are just not true. I'll start with one that chaps me and I hope you will contribute more. Maybe we can fight ignorance together.

Myth 1: Oher is a penalty machine/false starts every game.

Truth: in 2013 Michael Oher was penalized a total of 6 times. Only 3 of those were false starts and they were ALL in the same game (possible officiating issue?). Oher had 4 false starts in 2012. In comparison, Yanda was penalized 7 times and 5 of those were false starts this past year. He has 3 false starts in 2012.

 

Thank You. I am in no way a Michael Oher fan or hater but I've been saying this for weeks now. He was not that penalized.

[Latch]

Myth: Torrey Smith, Jacoby Jones, and Marlon Brown form an above average group of receivers.

 

Fact: I can name a receiver from every team who is better than Torrey. (Yes these names are debatable, I'm just trying to make a point)

 

AFCE: Mike Wallace, Jeremy Kerley, Stevie Johnson, Danny Amendola

AFCN: AJ Green, Antonio Brown, Josh Gordon

AFCS: Reggie Wayne, Andre Johnson, Nate Washington, Justin Blackmon

AFCW: Demarius Thomas, Dwayne Bowe, Denarius Moore

 

NFCE: Victor Cruz, Desean Jackson, Pierre Garcon, Dez Bryant

NFCN: Jordy Nelson, Greg Jennings, Calvin Johnson, Brandon Marshall

NFCS: Julio Jones, Marques Colston, Steve Smith, Vincent Jackson

NFCW: Golden Tate, Michael Crabtree, Larry Fitzgerald, Tavon Austin

 

I like our guys, but let's be honest. There's a LOT of overlooked talent on the other 31 teams. Tandon Doss did not make Green Bay's roster, and I think he's actually our 2nd best receiver. Add a true #1 WR to our group and THEN we have a nice cast.

 

I think you're reaching here on a couple of these guys, and also on Doss's talent, but I agree that our WRs are above average at best, average is more like it. 

[gabefergy]

I think you're reaching here on a couple of these guys, and also on Doss's talent, but I agree that our WRs are above average at best, average is more like it. 

I would say well below average as a group.

[NaveSenrag]

Myth: Torrey Smith, Jacoby Jones, and Marlon Brown form an above average group of receivers.

 

Fact: I can name a receiver from every team who is better than Torrey. (Yes these names are debatable, I'm just trying to make a point)

 

AFCE: Mike Wallace, Jeremy Kerley, Stevie Johnson, Danny Amendola

AFCN: AJ Green, Antonio Brown, Josh Gordon

AFCS: Reggie Wayne, Andre Johnson, Nate Washington, Justin Blackmon

AFCW: Demarius Thomas, Dwayne Bowe, Denarius Moore

 

NFCE: Victor Cruz, Desean Jackson, Pierre Garcon, Dez Bryant

NFCN: Jordy Nelson, Greg Jennings, Calvin Johnson, Brandon Marshall

NFCS: Julio Jones, Marques Colston, Steve Smith, Vincent Jackson

NFCW: Golden Tate, Michael Crabtree, Larry Fitzgerald, Tavon Austin

I disagree with a few of the players on there being considered better than Torrey, but I agree with your overall point. There was way too much talk before the season started about how Torrey had finally become a #1 receiver, then we saw the same problems that have plagued him his past two seasons.

[redrum52]

Noun

1. fact - a piece of information about circumstances that exist or events that have occurred; "first you must collect all the facts of the case"

2. fact - a statement or assertion of verified information about something that is the case or has happened; "he supported his argument with an impressive array of facts"

3. fact - an event known to have happened or something known to have existed; "your fears have no basis in fact"; "how much of the story is fact and how much fiction is hard to tell"

4. fact - a concept whose truth can be proved; "scientific hypotheses are not facts"

Thanks.

[redrum52]

Thank You. I am in no way a Michael Oher fan or hater but I've been saying this for weeks now. He was not that penalized.

Everyone's just a bunch of Oher haters. Since he got to this team hes has some of the most wins among tackles. We had been the model of consistency since he got here.

[Ed_Reed20]

Myth: Torrey Smith, Jacoby Jones, and Marlon Brown form an above average group of receivers.

 

Fact: I can name a receiver from every team who is better than Torrey. (Yes these names are debatable, I'm just trying to make a point)

 

AFCE: Mike Wallace, Jeremy Kerley, Stevie Johnson, Danny Amendola

AFCN: AJ Green, Antonio Brown, Josh Gordon

AFCS: Reggie Wayne, Andre Johnson, Nate Washington, Justin Blackmon

AFCW: Demarius Thomas, Dwayne Bowe, Denarius Moore

 

NFCE: Victor Cruz, Desean Jackson, Pierre Garcon, Dez Bryant

NFCN: Jordy Nelson, Greg Jennings, Calvin Johnson, Brandon Marshall

NFCS: Julio Jones, Marques Colston, Steve Smith, Vincent Jackson

NFCW: Golden Tate, Michael Crabtree, Larry Fitzgerald, Tavon Austin

 

I like our guys, but let's be honest. There's a LOT of overlooked talent on the other 31 teams. Tandon Doss did not make Green Bay's roster, and I think he's actually our 2nd best receiver. Add a true #1 WR to our group and THEN we have a nice cast.

 

I'd say Torrey is better than the players in bold. However, guys like Amendola, Kerley, Washington and Johnson definitely run better routes. And Smith, Blackmon and Bowe are better at contested grabs. Love Torrey and I think he'll get better but he's barely a top-30 WR at this point. 

 

Not sure whether you intentionally left him or just forget but Keenan Allen is an interesting  name to consider. Not to derail the thread but is he already a comparable WR to Torrey at this point?

[gabefergy]

I'd say Torrey is better than the players in bold. However, guys like Amendola, Kerley, Washington and Johnson definitely run better routes. And Smith, Blackmon and Bowe are better at contested grabs. Love Torrey and I think he'll get better but he's barely a top-30 WR at this point. 

 

Not sure whether you intentionally left him or just forget but Keenan Allen is an interesting  name to consider. Not to derail the thread but is he already a comparable WR to Torrey at this point?

Keenan Allen is better than Torrey imo. It's a shame we couldnt draft him.

[Tank 92]

But this year's D was so much better than last year. The difference was last year our offense was much better.

 

 

I think overall the D was much better this year.  But last year's D seemed to get the stops when they were needed most, this year????.  No.

[Jokerraven]

Myth: Players can be cut without any cap or contract responsibility once they are cut.

 

While it is true a player can be cut at any time, the guaranteed portion of there contract must be paid,the yearly pay is voided  Any signing bonus, however, ceases to be pro-rated, and the entire balance of the bonus counts against the cap in the upcoming season.

[gabefergy]

I think overall the D was much better this year.  But last year's D seemed to get the stops when they were needed most, this year????.  No.

I guess you can make that argument, but I felt like every stop our D made was big because we were constantly playing from behind this year. Our D definitely stepped up when it counted in the postseason last year, but they were a sieve in the regular season.

[HoldingCall]

Myth: Torrey Smith, Jacoby Jones, and Marlon Brown form an above average group of receivers.

 

Fact: I can name a receiver from every team who is better than Torrey. (Yes these names are debatable, I'm just trying to make a point)

 

AFCE: Mike Wallace, Jeremy Kerley, Stevie Johnson, Danny Amendola

AFCN: AJ Green, Antonio Brown, Josh Gordon

AFCS: Reggie Wayne, Andre Johnson, Nate Washington, Justin Blackmon

AFCW: Demarius Thomas, Dwayne Bowe, Denarius Moore

 

NFCE: Victor Cruz, Desean Jackson, Pierre Garcon, Dez Bryant

NFCN: Jordy Nelson, Greg Jennings, Calvin Johnson, Brandon Marshall

NFCS: Julio Jones, Marques Colston, Steve Smith, Vincent Jackson

NFCW: Golden Tate, Michael Crabtree, Larry Fitzgerald, Tavon Austin

 

I like our guys, but let's be honest. There's a LOT of overlooked talent on the other 31 teams. Tandon Doss did not make Green Bay's roster, and I think he's actually our 2nd best receiver. Add a true #1 WR to our group and THEN we have a nice cast.

 

Are you blaming Joe for this? You do realize the QB and the system has something to do with the success and numbers put up by wrs. Example: Qs, numbers this year are on par with numbers before he came to the Ravens but the three years here were all below his usual. So it may be unfair and an error to judge Torrey's ability this way.

[Alexir]

I'd say Torrey is better than the players in bold. However, guys like Amendola, Kerley, Washington and Johnson definitely run better routes. And Smith, Blackmon and Bowe are better at contested grabs. Love Torrey and I think he'll get better but he's barely a top-30 WR at this point. 

 

Not sure whether you intentionally left him or just forget but Keenan Allen is an interesting  name to consider. Not to derail the thread but is he already a comparable WR to Torrey at this point?

 

I too thought it was strange Allen wasn't on the list but Kerley was.

[5aiah]

I guess you can make that argument, but I felt like every stop our D made was big because we were constantly playing from behind this year. Our D definitely stepped up when it counted in the postseason last year, but they were a sieve in the regular season.

This is true. You have to take that into account when looking ta the defense. People talk of how the defense let us down late in crucial situations but they were all crucial situations because of how bad the offense played all game.

[Tank 92]

I guess you can make that argument, but I felt like every stop our D made was big because we were constantly playing from behind this year. Our D definitely stepped up when it counted in the postseason last year, but they were a sieve in the regular season.

 

 

I was thinking more of play at the end of games.  It just seemed that last year they stiffened up at money time and this year they usually folded when it mattered most.

[BmoreBird22]

Myth: Torrey Smith, Jacoby Jones, and Marlon Brown form an above average group of receivers.

 

Fact: I can name a receiver from every team who is better than Torrey. (Yes these names are debatable, I'm just trying to make a point)

 

AFCE: Mike Wallace, Jeremy Kerley, Stevie Johnson, Danny Amendola

AFCN: AJ Green, Antonio Brown, Josh Gordon

AFCS: Reggie Wayne, Andre Johnson, Nate Washington, Justin Blackmon

AFCW: Demarius Thomas, Dwayne Bowe, Denarius Moore

 

NFCE: Victor Cruz, Desean Jackson, Pierre Garcon, Dez Bryant

NFCN: Jordy Nelson, Greg Jennings, Calvin Johnson, Brandon Marshall

NFCS: Julio Jones, Marques Colston, Steve Smith, Vincent Jackson

NFCW: Golden Tate, Michael Crabtree, Larry Fitzgerald, Tavon Austin

 

I like our guys, but let's be honest. There's a LOT of overlooked talent on the other 31 teams. Tandon Doss did not make Green Bay's roster, and I think he's actually our 2nd best receiver. Add a true #1 WR to our group and THEN we have a nice cast.

Look, I don't think that this group of receivers is great, nor do I think they cut it (I used to think of Torrey as a number one, but I no longer do). I cannot understand why people think of Jones and Brown and number twos. They are threes at best. The receiving talent needs a jolt in the draft.

However, I'd be willing to debate against none or ten of those names, most in the AFC

[BmoreBird22]

Myth: the zone blocking scheme is new to the Ravens.

Fact: I see many people acting as if the ZBS is new for the Ravens or as if they had never seen it, but the truth is when Leach for here, the Ravens went hybrid.

I blame Castillo for the failures. He changed the language (why?), tried to move exclusively to the ZBS, and was unwilling to change the scheme. It took the players coming out and voicing their displeasure for it to change. I heard it was Ozzie trying to brush him under the rug. Not sure how true that is.

I just cannot understand why you would try to change the language of the lineman when they already had something in place that worked, especially when you have a new, young center. Why not let him keep up with what he knew?

I realize a lot has to do with personnel, but with the way the offensive line looked so lost at times with no explanation, mich of that comes back to the coaching.

Castillo must go.

[HoldingCall]

When the offense has problems in just about every area it's premature to down grade the receivers, imo. It's difficult for receivers to gain separation when the defense knows where they are going in advance. The same affects Joe's numbers, the system needs an overhaul.  

 

Look at how quickly Torrey was shut down after a top quality start to the season. Once teams got the tapes defenses were able to neutralize him to a large extent.

[gabefergy]

I was thinking more of play at the end of games.  It just seemed that last year they stiffened up at money time and this year they usually folded when it mattered most.

I can think of a few games where they didn't stiffen up. Philly, Dallas, Washington come to mind. For the most part though the defense wasn't in a place where they had to make a stop until the postseason.

[hawkprey]

I'd say Torrey is better than the players in bold. However, guys like Amendola, Kerley, Washington and Johnson definitely run better routes. And Smith, Blackmon and Bowe are better at contested grabs. Love Torrey and I think he'll get better but he's barely a top-30 WR at this point. 

 

Not sure whether you intentionally left him or just forget but Keenan Allen is an interesting  name to consider. Not to derail the thread but is he already a comparable WR to Torrey at this point?

I forgot to put San Diego because I really struggled with Oakland. They have a vast wasteland at QB, so none of their receivers are even on the map. But yes, I'd probably say Keenan Allen is already better than Torrey. He might be the OROY.

 

The point is (and thanks to everyone who replied and understood that I was just making an observation and not a declaration) that it's easy to overestimate how good our receivers are. If anyone but Torrey was cut, he'd have a hard time seeing significant playing time on almost any other team, and Torrey himself would probably be the #2 or #3 (or #4) on most teams as well. What Torrey does well at this point is... being fast. Same as Jacoby. He's not a great catcher or route-runner, or blocker. He's not elusive, physical, or veteran savvy. I love the guy, personally, and wouldn't want him on any other team, but let's not get carried overboard. He needs help. 

[K-Dog]

Someone should post definition of facts in this thread...

... and opinion.

[Jokerraven]

Myth: the zone blocking scheme is new to the Ravens.

Fact: I see many people acting as if the ZBS is new for the Ravens or as if they had never seen it, but the truth is when Leach for here, the Ravens went hybrid.

I blame Castillo for the failures. He changed the language (why?), tried to move exclusively to the ZBS, and was unwilling to change the scheme. It took the players coming out and voicing their displeasure for it to change. I heard it was Ozzie trying to brush him under the rug. Not sure how true that is.

I just cannot understand why you would try to change the language of the lineman when they already had something in place that worked, especially when you have a new, young center. Why not let him keep up with what he knew?

I realize a lot has to do with personnel, but with the way the offensive line looked so lost at times with no explanation, mich of that comes back to the coaching.

Castillo must go.

I agree with this too Gino was set up to fail before the season even started . no one no matter how intelligent can process all of that at once. I blame Harbs and Castillo, they knew going in we would have issues .zone stretch blocking is easy to learn  inside zone blocking and outside blocking not so much  if one person is off or misses there block the whole play  fails.

[Jokerraven]

I have a question .it could be a myth not sure  if I posted in the wrong spot I will delete. is there a special draft order , like qb's go first , te's second, etc etc  or can you draft anyone in any order? or is draft order a myth

[hawkprey]

I think you're reaching here on a couple of these guys, and also on Doss's talent, but I agree that our WRs are above average at best, average is more like it. 

Honestly, I really like Doss and don't think he's getting a fair chance. He's the only one who can make a contested catch on our roster. Joe targets him at a higher rate than any of our WRs.

 

But our receiving corp as "average"? As in 16-17th best? No way. Average as in a bunch of average guys? Yes, which is well below being the 16th best group. I can't go through every team in depth to make a point, but here's the fact: there is a lot of talent on other teams that we overlook. 

[TXRavensFan]

I have a question .it could be a myth not sure  if I posted in the wrong spot I will delete. is there a special draft order , like qb's go first , te's second, etc etc  or can you draft anyone in any order? or is draft order a myth

A team can take any player in any position with their pick. If a team wanted, they could draft a long snapper with the first overall pick in the draft.

[gabefergy]

I have a question .it could be a myth not sure  if I posted in the wrong spot I will delete. is there a special draft order , like qb's go first , te's second, etc etc  or can you draft anyone in any order? or is draft order a myth

You can draft anyone in any order. Certain positions like QB tend to get drafted earlier because they are deemed to have the most importance, but there is no order to which positions go when. 

 

The only draft order is the order of the teams.

[cursona pirate]

Myth: Ray Lewis is the ONLY reason we made it big last year and we sucked this year.

 

Fact: Yes he had some sort of emotional impact but it wasn't the only thing.