Myth Busters

[Moderator 3]

Subtitle: wide-spread erroneous beliefs.

Saw something in another thread earlier that I know to be widely believed, but untrue, got me thinking about starting this thread. Every day we see things in the forums that are just not true. I'll start with one that chaps me and I hope you will contribute more. Maybe we can fight ignorance together.

Myth 1: Oher is a penalty machine/false starts every game.

Truth: in 2013 Michael Oher was penalized a total of 6 times. Only 3 of those were false starts and they were ALL in the same game (possible officiating issue?). Oher had 4 false starts in 2012. In comparison, Yanda was penalized 7 times and 5 of those were false starts this past year. He has 3 false starts in 2012.

[runamuk]

actually mod 3 I was one that perpetrated that myth too I thought it was allot more

 

Myth: Flacco's contract has crippled this team and is the reason we got rid of all the players last year and won't be able to retain players this year because of it . 

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/joe-flacco/  pay attention to cap hit number ....I would copy the graphic but mobile is not letting me

[Moderator 3]

Keep 'em coming. Ignorance must be defeated!

[BMORE_96]

Myth 2: Run game issues lie on Castillo

 

Personnel is why we sucked this year. Oher has never been good since his rookie year, Gino was unproven but apparently admired by the FO, and KO got injured.  Even Yanda had struggles earlier in the year because of his rotator cuff.

 

Castillo's scheme worked with the Eagles and ZBS has worked wonders with the Texans. We've used the ZBS scheme in the past as well. Castillo, in fact, added wrinkles to help. The guy was such a good O-Line coach, the eagles thought he could coach defense. 

 

Look at the PFF grades, you can't run the ball if three starters are in double negatives.  Castillo was an undeserving scapegoat. 

[flynismo]

Awesome idea for a thread!

I have a couple long winded, but hopefully interesting rants to post when I have time.

[5aiah]

What an excellent idea for a thread. 

 

1. Ray Lewis and Ed Reed were solely responsible(with their on field coordinating tactics) for the success of our "bend but don't break" defense and it wouldn't be the same without them. It's been better this year.

 

2. Flacco had one of the best deep balls(in the entire league) in the past 5 years. His accuracy had been way off and on during the regular season but his performance during the run only served to help perpetuate this myth.

 

3. The Zone blocking scheme is some new to the Ravens. We have been successful at using the more fullback oriented zone blocking ever since Leach came.

[5aiah]

Myth 2: Run game issues lie on Castillo

 

Personnel is why we sucked this year. Oher has never been good since his rookie year, Gino was unproven but apparently admired by the FO, and KO got injured.  Even Yanda had struggles earlier in the year because of his rotator cuff.

 

Castillo's scheme worked with the Eagles and ZBS has worked wonders with the Texans. We've used the ZBS scheme in the past as well. Castillo, in fact, added wrinkles to help. The guy was such a good O-Line coach, the eagles thought he could coach defense. 

 

Look at the PFF grades, you can't run the ball if three starters are in double negatives.  Castillo was an undeserving scapegoat. 

I concur. Also, speaking of scapegoats, Cam Cameron was a scapegoat and the play calling(despite what people try to show you in charts) wasn't too big of a change and would have gone in that direction, regardless of who was calling the plays, with the line solidification.

 

2. Bernard Pierce can replace Ray Rice because he has the more physical running style. Ray Rice has always been our durable workhorse even though he has been at his best when he shares the load with other backs. Bernard will never make it through one season alone or with another back without a number of injuries.

 

3. Ed Dickson is a blocking Tight End. He can't block worth crap and is one of the worst starting TEs when it comes to blocking.

[Puntit]

Myth 2: Run game issues lie on Castillo

Personnel is why we sucked this year. Oher has never been good since his rookie year, Gino was unproven but apparently admired by the FO, and KO got injured. Even Yanda had struggles earlier in the year because of his rotator cuff.

Castillo's scheme worked with the Eagles and ZBS has worked wonders with the Texans. We've used the ZBS scheme in the past as well. Castillo, in fact, added wrinkles to help. The guy was such a good O-Line coach, the eagles thought he could coach defense.

Look at the PFF grades, you can't run the ball if three starters are in double negatives. Castillo was an undeserving scapegoat.

The problem in your theory is that you seem to think part of the job of an o-line Coach isn't to create schemes that work with the personnel he is given. If the personnel couldn't run a ZBS scheme effectively you don't just shrug your shoulders and keep running it, you go back to the drawing board and figure out something that works better. He didn't, and that makes it his fault. No myth there.

[Ravenslifer]

Myth: "This team needs to be a throw-first/run-first team".  

 

There should be no "first" - success with this team has always come about with a balanced offense.  The last several years we've been in the top half of the league in PPG scored (until this year). We've Never finished top 10 in pass yards per game and only once were higher than 10 in rush yards per game.  Generally we've been between 11-15 in rush yards and 14-17 in pass yards, and we were extremely balanced during our Superbowl run.

[runamuk]

Myth 2: Run game issues lie on Castillo

 

Personnel is why we sucked this year. Oher has never been good since his rookie year, Gino was unproven but apparently admired by the FO, and KO got injured.  Even Yanda had struggles earlier in the year because of his rotator cuff.

 

Castillo's scheme worked with the Eagles and ZBS has worked wonders with the Texans. We've used the ZBS scheme in the past as well. Castillo, in fact, added wrinkles to help. The guy was such a good O-Line coach, the eagles thought he could coach defense. 

 

Look at the PFF grades, you can't run the ball if three starters are in double negatives.  Castillo was an undeserving scapegoat. 

I disagree with this and there is allot of evidence to the contrary . we have used zone stretch plays in the past . Inside zone blocking is what the players failed to execute, Rice/Pierce up the middle loss of gain of 1 yard. the changes Juan made directly caused the run game and pass protection failures this year. this is not a myth

[5aiah]

The problem in your theory is that you seem to think part of the job of an o-line Coach isn't to create schemes that work with the personnel he is given. If the personnel couldn't run a ZBS scheme effectively you don't just shrug your shoulders and keep running it, you go back to the drawing board and figure out something that works better. He didn't, and that makes it his fault. No myth there.

If you have enough players on the line currently and more players down the road who can run it well, yes you do keep running it and get rid of the guys who can't do it, in the off season. It had to be installed sooner or later, lets get it over with now, and we did. Castillo was brought in to do a job the higher ups asked him to and he moved us toward that goal. If anything this is on Harbs for sticking with this all the way. Its his call, not Castillo's. It's not easy for Ravens fans to blame Harbs though is it?

 

I disagree with this and there is allot of evidence to the contrary . we have used zone stretch plays in the past . Inside zone blocking is what the players failed to execute, Rice/Pierce up the middle loss of gain of 1 yard. the changes Juan made directly caused the run game and pass protection failures this year. this is not a myth

He was brought in to make the changes, and the guys who brought him in knew the pros and cons. We didn't have the talent to make it work nor the talent to fall back on our normal power run. That isn't on one guy.

 

Subtitle: wide-spread erroneous beliefs.

Saw something in another thread earlier that I know to be widely believed, but untrue, got me thinking about starting this thread. Every day we see things in the forums that are just not true. I'll start with one that chaps me and I hope you will contribute more. Maybe we can fight ignorance together.

I think you just started a thread that will be up until the end of time.

[K-Dog]

I am starting to see some opinion floating around here and not so much on the FACT.

[JohnJohnson]

actually mod 3 I was one that perpetrated that myth too I thought it was allot more

 

Myth: Flacco's contract has crippled this team and is the reason we got rid of all the players last year and won't be able to retain players this year because of it . 

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/joe-flacco/  pay attention to cap hit number ....I would copy the graphic but mobile is not letting me

 

Myth: A contract's impact on a team's ability to sign players is completely determined by the cap hits in the first year or two of the contract.

[gabefergy]

Myth: Flacco is incapable of carrying the offense.

 

Fact is he did it last year for the entire season and we won the SB because of his play. When he has playmakers and protection, we have seen what he can do.

[runamuk]

If you have enough players on the line currently and more players down the road who can run it well, yes you do keep running it and get rid of the guys who can't do it, in the off season. It had to be installed sooner or later, lets get it over with now, and we did. Castillo was brought in to do a job the higher ups asked him to and he moved us toward that goal. If anything this is on Harbs for sticking with this all the way. Its his call, not Castillo's. It's not easy for Ravens fans to blame Harbs though is it?

 

He was brought in to make the changes, and the guys who brought him in knew the pros and cons. We didn't have the talent to make it work nor the talent to fall back on our normal power run. That isn't on one guy.

 

I think you just started a thread that will be up until the end of time.

No I blame harbs I said this before he knew at the beginning when they first decided to go in this direction that it could make for a bad season. on that much we agree . you and I discussed this before. did it need to be done that's debatable . and that's opinion. sticking with a scheme that does not suit the talent you have makes little sense .

[runamuk]

Myth: A contract's impact on a team's ability to sign players is completely determined by the cap hits in the first year or two of the contract.

flacco's cap hit this past season was 6.8 million and next year it is 14.8 million. flacco's contract is not "crippling" this team . and before it does it will be redone.

[gabefergy]

No I blame harbs I said this before he knew at the beginning when they first decided to go in this direction that it could make for a bad season. on that much we agree . you and I discussed this before. did it need to be done that's debatable . and that's opinion. sticking with a scheme that does not suit the talent you have makes little sense .

That's why they didnt stick with it.

[Willbacker]

Myth 2013 D better than 2012 D

It's not about stats. It's about stops.

[gabefergy]

Myth 2013 D better than 2012 D

It's not about stats. It's about stops.

That's not a myth.

[runamuk]

That's why they didnt stick with it.

the did stick with it up to and including some plays on sunday .we did have power blocking mixed in. But we never stopped the stretch or inside  zone blocking

[Willbacker]

That's not a myth.

A lot of people think this years D was better than last years D cuz of where they were ranked. This years D too many times didn't make the critical stop to either give our O another chance or to close out a game.

[gabefergy]

the did stick with it up to and including some plays on sunday .we did have power blocking mixed in. But we never stopped the stretch or inside  zone blocking

That's true, but we moved away from it as a primary blocking scheme. There was much more power run plays after they bye.

[gabefergy]

A lot of people think this years D was better than last years D cuz of where they were ranked. This years D too many times didn't make the critical stop to either give our O another chance or to close out a game.

But this year's D was so much better than last year. The difference was last year our offense was much better.

[Puntit]

If you have enough players on the line currently and more players down the road who can run it well, yes you do keep running it and get rid of the guys who can't do it, in the off season. It had to be installed sooner or later, lets get it over with now, and we did. Castillo was brought in to do a job the higher ups asked him to and he moved us toward that goal. If anything this is on Harbs for sticking with this all the way. Its his call, not Castillo's. It's not easy for Ravens fans to blame Harbs though is it?

 

He was brought in to make the changes, and the guys who brought him in knew the pros and cons. We didn't have the talent to make it work nor the talent to fall back on our normal power run. That isn't on one guy....

You are acting like they were looking to implement a system for the long run and not to even try to win this year. Thats probably the biggest myth we are going to see in this thread. They made lots of moves to win this year. Lots of short term signings and trades. Ate up virtually all the cap room. There was no plan to tank this year and fine tune things in the offseason. that's absurd. Castillo was brought in to tweak things with given set of personnel, not to create a system that would dictate ho would be the personnel going forward. Your logic makes sense if the system was broken, but not if the team just won a SuperBowl..

[5aiah]

You are acting like they were looking to implement a system for the long run and not to even try to win this year. Thats probably the biggest myth we are going to see in this thread. They made lots of moves to win this year. Lots of short term signings and trades. Ate up virtually all the cap room. There was no plan to tank this year and fine tune things in the offseason. that's absurd. Castillo was brought in to tweak things with given set of personnel, not to create a system that would dictate ho would be the personnel going forward. Your logic makes sense if the system was broken, but not if the team just won a SuperBowl..

I didn't say they weren't looking to win.That's a Strawman. I said they were looking to install a system for the long run and when the talent couldn't deliver we couldn't fall back on our usual power run because of the same talent. We were caught in between and it helped cost us the season. Also the system wasn't necessarily broke but it wasn't exactly desirable going forward either. That's why the change was made in the first place. I think the coaching staff believed even if everything went wrong and we couldn't execute we would still make the wildcard and win 9 to 10 games.

[redrum52]

Someone should post definition of facts in this thread...

[hawkprey]

Myth: Torrey Smith, Jacoby Jones, and Marlon Brown form an above average group of receivers.

 

Fact: I can name a receiver from every team who is better than Torrey. (Yes these names are debatable, I'm just trying to make a point)

 

AFCE: Mike Wallace, Jeremy Kerley, Stevie Johnson, Danny Amendola

AFCN: AJ Green, Antonio Brown, Josh Gordon

AFCS: Reggie Wayne, Andre Johnson, Nate Washington, Justin Blackmon

AFCW: Demarius Thomas, Dwayne Bowe, Denarius Moore

 

NFCE: Victor Cruz, Desean Jackson, Pierre Garcon, Dez Bryant

NFCN: Jordy Nelson, Greg Jennings, Calvin Johnson, Brandon Marshall

NFCS: Julio Jones, Marques Colston, Steve Smith, Vincent Jackson

NFCW: Golden Tate, Michael Crabtree, Larry Fitzgerald, Tavon Austin

 

I like our guys, but let's be honest. There's a LOT of overlooked talent on the other 31 teams. Tandon Doss did not make Green Bay's roster, and I think he's actually our 2nd best receiver. Add a true #1 WR to our group and THEN we have a nice cast.

[5aiah]

Myth: Torrey Smith, Jacoby Jones, and Marlon Brown form an above average group of receivers.

 

Fact: I can name a receiver from every team who is better than Torrey. (Yes these names are debatable, I'm just trying to make a point)

 

AFCE: Mike Wallace, Jeremy Kerley, Stevie Johnson, Danny Amendola

AFCN: AJ Green, Antonio Brown, Josh Gordon

AFCS: Reggie Wayne, Andre Johnson, Nate Washington, Justin Blackmon

AFCW: Demarius Thomas, Dwayne Bowe, Denarius Moore

 

NFCE: Victor Cruz, Desean Jackson, Pierre Garcon, Dez Bryant

NFCN: Jordy Nelson, Greg Jennings, Calvin Johnson, Brandon Marshall

NFCS: Julio Jones, Marques Colston, Steve Smith, Vincent Jackson

NFCW: Golden Tate, Michael Crabtree, Larry Fitzgerald, Tavon Austin

 

I like our guys, but let's be honest. There's a LOT of overlooked talent on the other 31 teams. Tandon Doss did not make Green Bay's roster, and I think he's actually our 2nd best receiver. Add a true #1 WR to our group and THEN we have a nice cast.

Wow about time someone looked at it objectively. Our receiving corps has been overrated for far too long. You're 90% right on that list btw.

[BALTIMOREFLACCO]

Myth: Torrey Smith, Jacoby Jones, and Marlon Brown form an above average group of receivers.

 

Fact: I can name a receiver from every team who is better than Torrey. (Yes these names are debatable, I'm just trying to make a point)

 

AFCE: Mike Wallace, Jeremy Kerley, Stevie Johnson, Danny Amendola

AFCN: AJ Green, Antonio Brown, Josh Gordon

AFCS: Reggie Wayne, Andre Johnson, Nate Washington, Justin Blackmon

AFCW: Demarius Thomas, Dwayne Bowe, Denarius Moore

 

NFCE: Victor Cruz, Desean Jackson, Pierre Garcon, Dez Bryant

NFCN: Jordy Nelson, Greg Jennings, Calvin Johnson, Brandon Marshall

NFCS: Julio Jones, Marques Colston, Steve Smith, Vincent Jackson

NFCW: Golden Tate, Michael Crabtree, Larry Fitzgerald, Tavon Austin

 

I like our guys, but let's be honest. There's a LOT of overlooked talent on the other 31 teams. Tandon Doss did not make Green Bay's roster, and I think he's actually our 2nd best receiver. Add a true #1 WR to our group and THEN we have a nice cast.

 

I think this is absolutely absurd, but your overall point that our WR corps is not that good is true. 

[redrum52]

Myth: Torrey Smith, Jacoby Jones, and Marlon Brown form an above average group of receivers.

Fact: I can name a receiver from every team who is better than Torrey. (Yes these names are debatable, I'm just trying to make a point)

AFCE: Mike Wallace, Jeremy Kerley, Stevie Johnson, Danny Amendola

AFCN: AJ Green, Antonio Brown, Josh Gordon

AFCS: Reggie Wayne, Andre Johnson, Nate Washington, Justin Blackmon

AFCW: Demarius Thomas, Dwayne Bowe, Denarius Moore

NFCE: Victor Cruz, Desean Jackson, Pierre Garcon, Dez Bryant

NFCN: Jordy Nelson, Greg Jennings, Calvin Johnson, Brandon Marshall

NFCS: Julio Jones, Marques Colston, Steve Smith, Vincent Jackson

NFCW: Golden Tate, Michael Crabtree, Larry Fitzgerald, Tavon Austin

I like our guys, but let's be honest. There's a LOT of overlooked talent on the other 31 teams. Tandon Doss did not make Green Bay's roster, and I think he's actually our 2nd best receiver. Add a true #1 WR to our group and THEN we have a nice cast.

Someone should post the definition of facts in this thread...