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John Harbaugh's Fears


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#1 T3hRaven

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 10:39 PM

It has been proposed that the reason the Ravens have maintained a certain playbook or offensive philsophy is more Harbaugh's fault than the OC.  It seems clear that the OC does not have free reign to do what they do despite Harbaugh's lack of experience on that side of the ball.

 

We've seen issues crop up with strong personalities of the players, and it's possibly that also happened with coaches (I'm thinking Hue Jackson mainly), to the point where we jettisoned everyone who was outspoken except for Suggs, who for the most part is outspoken touting the company line.

 

Is it possible that Harbaugh won't allow an OC with a philosophy, a plan, and experience to come in because it challenges his authority?  We can gloss over the mutiny as a turning point last season, but perhaps it's a sign of deeper philosophical problems in the organization.


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#2 Jokerraven

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 10:48 PM

I think your on to something most/if not all the players who spoke out are gone.Last year even before Caldwell the big knock on Cam Cameron was no creativity and conservative plays. this year different OC and same lack of creativity and vanilla offense that pop warner defense can figure out. I think that has to be Harbs input into the offense . I know we faced other issues this year but the underlying theme hasn't changed what I don't understand is how in the postseason last year the playcalling was aggressive and creative where did that play caller go or was that all  Joe?


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#3 berad

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 10:53 PM

I'll play devil's advocate and poke some holes.

Hue Jackson took a promotion to become the Raiders OC (and eventually HC) in his home state. He also had strong feelings for the franchise imo he really loved Al Davis.

To the outspoken players the only one that really fits that profile is Pollard. But, seeing as he can't hold a job, it may be a Pollard issue rather than a Harbaugh issue.

Also, if Harbaugh was looking to take out outspoken players, he missed the biggest one: Joe Flacco. Flacco is candid and not afraid to go against the grain. He says it with a straight face and a monotone so it mostly goes unnoticed but his pressers are by far the best and most informative.

I do agree, however, that Harbaugh has a very conservative offensive philosophy by nature. When Caldwell took the job as OC he said the playbook would not change - it still hasn't, really. Is this because Harbaugh sets it? Or is it because Caldwell doesn't have enough coordination experience to do so?
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#4 ratedr

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 10:54 PM

I didn't buy this before but I'm starting to believe this now.

Rodney Harrison called us soft on PFT. Harsh, but he might be right. Harbaugh stripped the team of its toughness.

Edited by ratedr, 30 December 2013 - 10:55 PM.

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#5 gabefergy

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 10:54 PM

It has been proposed that the reason the Ravens have maintained a certain playbook or offensive philsophy is more Harbaugh's fault than the OC. It seems clear that the OC does not have free reign to do what they do despite Harbaugh's lack of experience on that side of the ball.

We've seen issues crop up with strong personalities of the players, and it's possibly that also happened with coaches (I'm thinking Hue Jackson mainly), to the point where we jettisoned everyone who was outspoken except for Suggs, who for the most part is outspoken touting the company line.

Is it possible that Harbaugh won't allow an OC with a philosophy, a plan, and experience to come in because it challenges his authority? We can gloss over the mutiny as a turning point last season, but perhaps it's a sign of deeper philosophical problems in the organization.


Im not sure what you are inferring, but it seems extreme to me. Wasn't Harbaugh the guy who "handed the keys" to Flacco in last years AFCCG? Also he made the decision to go all pass vs Buffalo, because we couldn't run the ball.

Harbs is going to do what it takes to win, bottom line.
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#6 ratedr

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 10:56 PM

I'll play devil's advocate and poke some holes.

Hue Jackson took a promotion to become the Raiders OC (and eventually HC) in his home state. He also had strong feelings for the franchise imo he really loved Al Davis.

To the outspoken players the only one that really fits that profile is Pollard. But, seeing as he can't hold a job, it may be a Pollard issue rather than a Harbaugh issue.

Also, if Harbaugh was looking to take out outspoken players, he missed the biggest one: Joe Flacco. Flacco is candid and not afraid to go against the grain. He says it with a straight face and a monotone so it mostly goes unnoticed but his pressers are by far the best and most informative.

I do agree, however, that Harbaugh has a very conservative offensive philosophy by nature. When Caldwell took the job as OC he said the playbook would not change - it still hasn't, really. Is this because Harbaugh sets it? Or is it because Caldwell doesn't have enough coordination experience to do so?

But on the other hand, I agree with this too, especially the Flacco part. I love his pressers because they tend to be the most honest.
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#7 Ravenskid52752

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 10:57 PM

I think your on to something most/if not all the players who spoke out are gone.Last year even before Caldwell the big knock on Cam Cameron was no creativity and conservative plays. this year different OC and same lack of creativity and vanilla offense that pop warner defense can figure out. I think that has to be Harbs input into the offense . I know we faced other issues this year but the underlying theme hasn't changed what I don't understand is how in the postseason last year the playcalling was aggressive and creative where did that play caller go or was that all  Joe?

all joe because in the AFC championship game John told Jim to let flacco go and let him call his own play and lets go. and see what happen 21-0 second half they still have the cuffs on flacco after he won  the SB. idk why because he's not a rookie he's in his 7th season now let him do him.


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#8 gabefergy

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 10:58 PM

I think the idea that Harbaugh has somehow made this team soft is laughable. There are a lot of things that went wrong this year, but I didn't see a team that was soft. They competed to the very end of every game.
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#9 BALTIMOREFLACCO

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 11:01 PM

I think the idea that Harbaugh has somehow made this team soft is laughable. There are a lot of things that went wrong this year, but I didn't see a team that was soft. They competed to the very end of every game.

 

I agree


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#10 Jokerraven

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 11:12 PM

all joe because in the AFC championship game John told Jim to let flacco go and let him call his own play and lets go. and see what happen 21-0 second half they still have the cuffs on flacco after he won  the SB. idk why because he's not a rookie he's in his 7th season now let him do him.

I thought it was Joe I just wasn't sure .what hasn't made sense to me this year is why didn't harbaugh say mid season. look this isn't working lets go with what works.


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#11 Bltravens

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 11:19 PM

We were a soft team in that we couldn't run the ball on 4th and 1 or 3rd and 1.  That makes a soft Oline.  But i didn't think the rest of the team was soft.  


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#12 K-Dog

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 11:35 PM

So Harbaugh would rather be right than win?

Got it.
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#13 Jillester

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 11:37 PM

I'm curious to know how much input Jack Harbaugh has into our offensive scheming?  It's no secret that he is an unpaid consultant to both sons, Jim and John.  

 

http://www.sfgate.co...p#photo-4104417


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#14 Ravens1991

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 11:42 PM

I disagree with Harbaugh being afraid of a OC running his system because it may challenge his authority. I say this because look on the defensive side. The DC went from Rex to Mattison to Pagano to Peas those are polar opposites flip flopping.  I do think Harbaugh is adding a conservative twist to our offense but I do not feel it is because he is afraid of losing power.


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#15 Jokerraven

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 11:50 PM

Its not clear who is calling the plays and who is conservative and who isn't .But whomever it is is doing a very poor job of it. I don't think it makes the team soft . At some point this season the head coach should have said Juan enough is enough the season is getting away from us and your scheme isn't working.


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#16 SizzleSuggs55

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 11:56 PM

I'm not sure what to make of this, but somehow it wouldn't surprise me if Harbaugh is the driving force behind our offensive scheme. I don't think he's afraid of losing power or anything like that, he could simply think his offensive ideas are the way to go.  Of course he wants to win and would do anything, but sometimes NFL coaches can be stubborn. Bottom line tho is something has got to change. It was painful watching us on offense this year, you see teams like the patriots and chargers who lost players both to free agency and injury's, and are still ranked in the top half of the nfl in offense. Our playbook just doesn't have the simple and easy routes and plays for Joe to make. 


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#17 jtrostle

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 12:05 AM

I keep having this terrible thought that surely can't be right, but what if Harbaugh never really wanted to pay Flacco and then Flacco went out and had that ridiculous postseason last year.  The big contract happens and Harbaugh can't do anything about it.  So Harbs basically takes away the play calling from Flacco again and dumbs down the offense just to prove he was right.  I mean, Harbs always says that Joe is his guy but that doesn't necessarily guarantee that he means it and we all know Harbaugh can be stubborn, hold grudges, and has an ego like the rest of the family.

 

There's probably about a 1% that scenario would happen, but it's just something that has popped into my head before when trying to figure out what's up with offense.


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#18 runamuk

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 12:13 AM

Too many cooks in the kitchen who knows who's calling what. we played hard but had allot to overcome I don't think we were soft but something is wrong for this offense to look this bad after a superbowl run. joe was sacked 48 times and hit 90 times in this season alone. that's horrible.

 

Best option  fire any coach that has a fake title . and tell John's friends to go the play date is over.Joe does fine calling his own plays  as evidenced by the superbowl run.


Edited by runamuk, 31 December 2013 - 12:14 AM.

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#19 The Raven

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 12:54 AM

I think the idea that Harbaugh has somehow made this team soft is laughable. There are a lot of things that went wrong this year, but I didn't see a team that was soft. They competed to the very end of every game.

 

Laughable? Completely idiotic is more like it.

 

I've started to entertain the thoughts that Harbs is behind our offensive issues, but then I remember that he was actually the head coach when Flacco was let loose. If this theory were true, would Flacco have been let loose like he was after Cam got fired?


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#20 PoeDinkum

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 12:59 AM

I'm not sure what to make of this, but somehow it wouldn't surprise me if Harbaugh is the driving force behind our offensive scheme. I don't think he's afraid of losing power or anything like that, he could simply think his offensive ideas are the way to go.  Of course he wants to win and would do anything, but sometimes NFL coaches can be stubborn. Bottom line tho is something has got to change. It was painful watching us on offense this year, you see teams like the patriots and chargers who lost players both to free agency and injury's, and are still ranked in the top half of the nfl in offense. Our playbook just doesn't have the simple and easy routes and plays for Joe to make. 

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