John Harbaugh's Fears

[T3hRaven]

It has been proposed that the reason the Ravens have maintained a certain playbook or offensive philsophy is more Harbaugh's fault than the OC.  It seems clear that the OC does not have free reign to do what they do despite Harbaugh's lack of experience on that side of the ball.

 

We've seen issues crop up with strong personalities of the players, and it's possibly that also happened with coaches (I'm thinking Hue Jackson mainly), to the point where we jettisoned everyone who was outspoken except for Suggs, who for the most part is outspoken touting the company line.

 

Is it possible that Harbaugh won't allow an OC with a philosophy, a plan, and experience to come in because it challenges his authority?  We can gloss over the mutiny as a turning point last season, but perhaps it's a sign of deeper philosophical problems in the organization.

[Jokerraven]

I think your on to something most/if not all the players who spoke out are gone.Last year even before Caldwell the big knock on Cam Cameron was no creativity and conservative plays. this year different OC and same lack of creativity and vanilla offense that pop warner defense can figure out. I think that has to be Harbs input into the offense . I know we faced other issues this year but the underlying theme hasn't changed what I don't understand is how in the postseason last year the playcalling was aggressive and creative where did that play caller go or was that all  Joe?

[berad]

I'll play devil's advocate and poke some holes.

Hue Jackson took a promotion to become the Raiders OC (and eventually HC) in his home state. He also had strong feelings for the franchise imo he really loved Al Davis.

To the outspoken players the only one that really fits that profile is Pollard. But, seeing as he can't hold a job, it may be a Pollard issue rather than a Harbaugh issue.

Also, if Harbaugh was looking to take out outspoken players, he missed the biggest one: Joe Flacco. Flacco is candid and not afraid to go against the grain. He says it with a straight face and a monotone so it mostly goes unnoticed but his pressers are by far the best and most informative.

I do agree, however, that Harbaugh has a very conservative offensive philosophy by nature. When Caldwell took the job as OC he said the playbook would not change - it still hasn't, really. Is this because Harbaugh sets it? Or is it because Caldwell doesn't have enough coordination experience to do so?

[ratedr]

I didn't buy this before but I'm starting to believe this now.

Rodney Harrison called us soft on PFT. Harsh, but he might be right. Harbaugh stripped the team of its toughness.

[gabefergy]

It has been proposed that the reason the Ravens have maintained a certain playbook or offensive philsophy is more Harbaugh's fault than the OC. It seems clear that the OC does not have free reign to do what they do despite Harbaugh's lack of experience on that side of the ball.

We've seen issues crop up with strong personalities of the players, and it's possibly that also happened with coaches (I'm thinking Hue Jackson mainly), to the point where we jettisoned everyone who was outspoken except for Suggs, who for the most part is outspoken touting the company line.

Is it possible that Harbaugh won't allow an OC with a philosophy, a plan, and experience to come in because it challenges his authority? We can gloss over the mutiny as a turning point last season, but perhaps it's a sign of deeper philosophical problems in the organization.

Im not sure what you are inferring, but it seems extreme to me. Wasn't Harbaugh the guy who "handed the keys" to Flacco in last years AFCCG? Also he made the decision to go all pass vs Buffalo, because we couldn't run the ball.

Harbs is going to do what it takes to win, bottom line.

[ratedr]

I'll play devil's advocate and poke some holes.

Hue Jackson took a promotion to become the Raiders OC (and eventually HC) in his home state. He also had strong feelings for the franchise imo he really loved Al Davis.

To the outspoken players the only one that really fits that profile is Pollard. But, seeing as he can't hold a job, it may be a Pollard issue rather than a Harbaugh issue.

Also, if Harbaugh was looking to take out outspoken players, he missed the biggest one: Joe Flacco. Flacco is candid and not afraid to go against the grain. He says it with a straight face and a monotone so it mostly goes unnoticed but his pressers are by far the best and most informative.

I do agree, however, that Harbaugh has a very conservative offensive philosophy by nature. When Caldwell took the job as OC he said the playbook would not change - it still hasn't, really. Is this because Harbaugh sets it? Or is it because Caldwell doesn't have enough coordination experience to do so?

But on the other hand, I agree with this too, especially the Flacco part. I love his pressers because they tend to be the most honest.

[Ravenskid52752]

I think your on to something most/if not all the players who spoke out are gone.Last year even before Caldwell the big knock on Cam Cameron was no creativity and conservative plays. this year different OC and same lack of creativity and vanilla offense that pop warner defense can figure out. I think that has to be Harbs input into the offense . I know we faced other issues this year but the underlying theme hasn't changed what I don't understand is how in the postseason last year the playcalling was aggressive and creative where did that play caller go or was that all  Joe?

all joe because in the AFC championship game John told Jim to let flacco go and let him call his own play and lets go. and see what happen 21-0 second half they still have the cuffs on flacco after he won  the SB. idk why because he's not a rookie he's in his 7th season now let him do him.

[gabefergy]

I think the idea that Harbaugh has somehow made this team soft is laughable. There are a lot of things that went wrong this year, but I didn't see a team that was soft. They competed to the very end of every game.

[rmw10]

Spiders and heights. Wait... Not what you're talking about? Carry on.

[gabefergy]

Spiders and heights. Wait... Not what you're talking about? Carry on.

Don't forget snakes.

[BALTIMOREFLACCO]

I think the idea that Harbaugh has somehow made this team soft is laughable. There are a lot of things that went wrong this year, but I didn't see a team that was soft. They competed to the very end of every game.

 

I agree

[Jokerraven]

all joe because in the AFC championship game John told Jim to let flacco go and let him call his own play and lets go. and see what happen 21-0 second half they still have the cuffs on flacco after he won  the SB. idk why because he's not a rookie he's in his 7th season now let him do him.

I thought it was Joe I just wasn't sure .what hasn't made sense to me this year is why didn't harbaugh say mid season. look this isn't working lets go with what works.

[Bltravens]

We were a soft team in that we couldn't run the ball on 4th and 1 or 3rd and 1.  That makes a soft Oline.  But i didn't think the rest of the team was soft.  

[SecretAgentMan]

Don't forget snakes.

It had to be snakes

[K-Dog]

So Harbaugh would rather be right than win?

Got it.

[Jillester]

I'm curious to know how much input Jack Harbaugh has into our offensive scheming?  It's no secret that he is an unpaid consultant to both sons, Jim and John.  

 

http://www.sfgate.com/49ers/article/Jack-Harbaugh-advises-2-NFL-coaches-5033047.php#photo-4104417

[Ravens1991]

I disagree with Harbaugh being afraid of a OC running his system because it may challenge his authority. I say this because look on the defensive side. The DC went from Rex to Mattison to Pagano to Peas those are polar opposites flip flopping.  I do think Harbaugh is adding a conservative twist to our offense but I do not feel it is because he is afraid of losing power.

[Jokerraven]

Its not clear who is calling the plays and who is conservative and who isn't .But whomever it is is doing a very poor job of it. I don't think it makes the team soft . At some point this season the head coach should have said Juan enough is enough the season is getting away from us and your scheme isn't working.

[SizzleSuggs55]

I'm not sure what to make of this, but somehow it wouldn't surprise me if Harbaugh is the driving force behind our offensive scheme. I don't think he's afraid of losing power or anything like that, he could simply think his offensive ideas are the way to go.  Of course he wants to win and would do anything, but sometimes NFL coaches can be stubborn. Bottom line tho is something has got to change. It was painful watching us on offense this year, you see teams like the patriots and chargers who lost players both to free agency and injury's, and are still ranked in the top half of the nfl in offense. Our playbook just doesn't have the simple and easy routes and plays for Joe to make. 

[jtrostle]

I keep having this terrible thought that surely can't be right, but what if Harbaugh never really wanted to pay Flacco and then Flacco went out and had that ridiculous postseason last year.  The big contract happens and Harbaugh can't do anything about it.  So Harbs basically takes away the play calling from Flacco again and dumbs down the offense just to prove he was right.  I mean, Harbs always says that Joe is his guy but that doesn't necessarily guarantee that he means it and we all know Harbaugh can be stubborn, hold grudges, and has an ego like the rest of the family.

 

There's probably about a 1% that scenario would happen, but it's just something that has popped into my head before when trying to figure out what's up with offense.

[runamuk]

Too many cooks in the kitchen who knows who's calling what. we played hard but had allot to overcome I don't think we were soft but something is wrong for this offense to look this bad after a superbowl run. joe was sacked 48 times and hit 90 times in this season alone. that's horrible.

 

Best option  fire any coach that has a fake title . and tell John's friends to go the play date is over.Joe does fine calling his own plays  as evidenced by the superbowl run.

[The Raven]

I think the idea that Harbaugh has somehow made this team soft is laughable. There are a lot of things that went wrong this year, but I didn't see a team that was soft. They competed to the very end of every game.

 

Laughable? Completely idiotic is more like it.

 

I've started to entertain the thoughts that Harbs is behind our offensive issues, but then I remember that he was actually the head coach when Flacco was let loose. If this theory were true, would Flacco have been let loose like he was after Cam got fired?

[PoeDinkum]

I'm not sure what to make of this, but somehow it wouldn't surprise me if Harbaugh is the driving force behind our offensive scheme. I don't think he's afraid of losing power or anything like that, he could simply think his offensive ideas are the way to go.  Of course he wants to win and would do anything, but sometimes NFL coaches can be stubborn. Bottom line tho is something has got to change. It was painful watching us on offense this year, you see teams like the patriots and chargers who lost players both to free agency and injury's, and are still ranked in the top half of the nfl in offense. Our playbook just doesn't have the simple and easy routes and plays for Joe to make. 

Ta-dow! :plus-un2:

[izvoodoo]

I think the idea that Harbaugh has somehow made this team soft is laughable. There are a lot of things that went wrong this year, but I didn't see a team that was soft. They competed to the very end of every game.

The only thing soft was the blocking.

 

we just weren't mean in the trenches.  Everything falls apart from there.

[jazz1988]

In my opinion I think Harbaugh wants the ravens offense to be  very good and aggressive . I think when he signed Castillo he figured that would  help the offensive line greatly along with improving the  rushing attack. I don't think any one could look at Castillo resume and not think it wasn't a good hired .  He made Jim Caldwell the offensive coordinator which was just something that made sense at the time but in the end Caldwell  and Castillo just didn't work out or mesh well.

 

Harbaugh is not a offensive minded coach he's more of   a special teams and defensive minded coach which is probably why he usually able to hired some pretty good defensive coaches a lot more than offensive coaches. I think  Harbaugh had  huge plans for the ravens offense but things just became a big mess especially considering that the  o-line wasn't very good ,none of the players on offense were able to adjust to Castillo scheme right away, the talent on offense wasn't the same like it was last year, and Caldwell play calling was just predictable with out much creativity. Im sure Harbaugh wanted better I'm sure he spoke to his coaches about  wanting better production out his offensive but in the end it didn't work out .

 

I think our offense has been trying to transform and I think its moving  in the right direction its just not fully there yet. I think Harbaugh truly means no harm when it come to Flacco success on offense  but right now he has to figure out on how to add the right piece to get the  offense going  to the level it should be and that's way beyond signing/drafting  players.

[T3hRaven]

I've started to entertain the thoughts that Harbs is behind our offensive issues, but then I remember that he was actually the head coach when Flacco was let loose. If this theory were true, would Flacco have been let loose like he was after Cam got fired?

 

I dunno, I feel like the situation kinda backed us in to a corner a bit.  There wasn't a logical choice besides letting him try to win that Pats game after how things went the previous year.

 

The fact is we don't know who is ultimately to blame for a lot of this stuff, so a lot of it has to fall on him as the figurehead and the CEO of the team on the field.  I don't think it's unreasonable to extrapolate what we know about his dealings with certain players to the coaching staff, or to theorize that he's a control freak.

[omar586]

i think the problem this year is the RUN GAME, the run game was terrible, that created a lots of problems, we couldn't milk the clock, became one dimensional, a lot of 3nouts, tired Defense, predictable and opponents would only game plan for your passing game, that's all.

[The Raven]

I dunno, I feel like the situation kinda backed us in to a corner a bit.  There wasn't a logical choice besides letting him try to win that Pats game after how things went the previous year.

 

The fact is we don't know who is ultimately to blame for a lot of this stuff, so a lot of it has to fall on him as the figurehead and the CEO of the team on the field.  I don't think it's unreasonable to extrapolate what we know about his dealings with certain players to the coaching staff, or to theorize that he's a control freak.

 

Definitely not unreasonable, I just think that there's some evidence that suggests the opposite. There were also a lot of variables this year that limited what we were able to do.

 

In the few games over the past six years where the run game, oline, and receivers worked, the offense looked great. I want to see what happens next year, of course.

[PerpetuallyBored74]

Harbaugh seems to be slow (reluctant?) to react.

Then, when he finally DOES react, he tends to overreact.

[Tru11]

he seems to like his buddys alot.

 

intrestingly castillo officially came with the ravens just  a week or 2 before the SB.

he got his buddy a nice shinny ring and then asked him to break what worked for us....

 

he asked his other buddy spagnuolo to become a senior defensive assistent and all we see right now are these predictable basic 4 man pass rush...

 

ravens used to blitz from all angles but now QBs have all time because its easy to know what is going on.

you wanna know why the pass rush faded later in the season?

after a few games you could already figure out what they would do lol.

brady had his easiest game against us in a while....

 

i loved for someone to explain to me why on earth we have so many assistants....