Run Game Woes (How to fix the offense)

[SecretAgentMan]

Now the first concern of the offseason is fixing the Run Game.
It's the biggest reason we sucked offensively this year.

The run game does a lot more than get you yards on the ground. It runs the clock, forces defenses to respect you, opens up the passing game.

Part of the reason we couldn't get going is no run game. Defenses don't respect it anymore. They no longer have to put an extra man in the box. As a result theirs an extra DB covering one of our receivers.

In short, if you can't establish a running game, you won't be very successful.

Logic Dictates that Ozzie needs to do the following three things.

1. Bench Rice. IDC if he's injured. He's done and past his prime. He got old. It happens(see my other thread)
2. Get a new OC.
I refuse to believe that all of our personnel(except for Oher) are this bad. Shiply is a backup. Gino should grow. I'm gonna give him one more season before I judge, Yanda is an all pro. Monroe is good, and KO was hurt.

The problem wasn't the personnel(except for Oher), rather the scheme. Caldwell is a huge part of the problem. Not because we are predictable, no, that playbook SUCKS... And we're predictable.

3. Get more DEPTH on the oline.

When KO went out we were stuck with Shiply as a guard. That can't happen again lol. I think we will be signing a lot of depth players.

This is probably what FA is for.


Then we need to draft weapons... And boom! If we stay healthy we have an offense again.

This is probably what we do first


Captain Obvious out

[The Don 20]

Can we take a page out of the Eagles playbook? I watched them run all over the Cowboys tonight under center and in shotgun, and they didn't run the read-option like most people think they do.  Also, they do not have giant OL (outside Jason Peters who is a beast) but rather smaller guys that can get to the 2nd level. Their center is small by NFL OL standards. Granted Rice/Pierce/whoever has to get to be able to get to the second level, but I don't think we need these giant maulers either.  

 

Ironically when you think about it, Juan Castillo was on the Eagles staff for a long time, the first year he's completely gone, they lead the league in rushing.  Coincidence? (And yes I know he was a DC for a couple years, just saying its kinda funny)

[Sami84]

Now the first concern of the offseason is fixing the Run Game.
It's the biggest reason we sucked offensively this year.

The run game does a lot more than get you yards on the ground. It runs the clock, forces defenses to respect you, opens up the passing game.

Part of the reason we couldn't get going is no run game. Defenses don't respect it anymore. They no longer have to put an extra man in the box. As a result theirs an extra DB covering one of our receivers.

In short, if you can't establish a running game, you won't be very successful.

Logic Dictates that Ozzie needs to do the following three things.

1. Bench Rice. IDC if he's injured. He's done and past his prime. He got old. It happens(see my other thread)
2. Get a new OC.
I refuse to believe that all of our personnel(except for Oher) are this bad. Shiply is a backup. Gino should grow. I'm gonna give him one more season before I judge, Yanda is an all pro. Monroe is good, and KO was hurt.

The problem wasn't the personnel(except for Oher), rather the scheme. Caldwell is a huge part of the problem. Not because we are predictable, no, that playbook SUCKS... And we're predictable.

3. Get more DEPTH on the oline.

When KO went out we were stuck with Shiply as a guard. That can't happen again lol. I think we will be signing a lot of depth players.

This is probably what FA is for.


Then we need to draft weapons... And boom! If we stay healthy we have an offense again.

This is probably what we do first


Captain Obvious out

What about our lack of pass rush?

 

We have many holes and it would be la la land to think we can get this all sorted out in 1 offseason.

[Sami84]

If we go all out for 1 big free agent signing it would be one of the 2 players here

 

Alex Mack

 

Jairys Bryd

 

the latter would transform our secondary and make it by far our strong point

[SecretAgentMan]

What about our lack of pass rush?

We have many holes and it would be la la land to think we can get this all sorted out in 1 offseason.

Lack of pass rush is fixed by bringing in a new DC and getting healthy. That's the least of my worries.

[SecretAgentMan]

If we go all out for 1 big free agent signing it would be one of the 2 players here

Alex Mack

Jairys Bryd

the latter would transform our secondary and make it by far our strong point

Don't have the money for either. And Ozzie usually isn't a big spender. He builds through the draft.

[Jokerraven]

I disagree about Rice he showed that he isn't done just injured . The line has not taken to the zbs as well as one would like. Shipley and oher being the weak link. the oline has to be the top priority. Castillo was hired to install the zbs fully  and to also teach it. no good oline no holes for running backs , no pass protection for joe. I know allot of folks are speculating that Castillo is gone and I think they are going to be very disappointed if harbs was dissatisfied he would have been gone and we would have switched back to the power blocking scheme mixed with the outside zone stretch blocking  which served us well last year . Shipley was a horrible replacement for KO but no choice . all of this was verified by McKinnie when he left  most folks brushed it off as  sour grapes. I believe Jensen and wagner are both good fits for the scheme but Jensen was injured and god knows why wagner isn't used maybe he is taking longer to develop.

PItta being injured, then Jacoby injured first game of the season kinda left the cupboard bare so to speak ,,(here's where I get ripped apart for daring to say this) I know ozzie is the greatest thing since ice cream was invented but he just doesn't have  a good record of picking wideouts.we lucked out that marlon is as good as he is .

 

we need a creative offensive mind and also one on defense . lose the bend don't break and get someone who goes for the throat every single play . and for gods sake put elam in his natural position he excels there.

 

I believe the new oc is already on the staff and as much as I pray I am wrong I doubt it. no decent oline no offense. and stop making up titiles for John's friends just because they need a job.there were too many cooks in the kitchen and that's why our offense sucks so bad .

 

[Jokerraven]

I disagree about Rice he showed that he isn't done just injured . The line has not taken to the zbs as well as one would like. Shipley and oher being the weak link. the oline has to be the top priority. Castillo was hired to install the zbs fully  and to also teach it. no good oline no holes for running backs , no pass protection for joe. I know allot of folks are speculating that Castillo is gone and I think they are going to be very disappointed if harbs was dissatisfied he would have been gone and we would have switched back to the power blocking scheme mixed with the outside zone stretch blocking  which served us well last year . Shipley was a horrible replacement for KO but no choice . all of this was verified by McKinnie when he left  most folks brushed it off as  sour grapes. I believe Jensen and wagner are both good fits for the scheme but Jensen was injured and god knows why wagner isn't used maybe he is taking longer to develop.

PItta being injured, then Jacoby injured first game of the season kinda left the cupboard bare so to speak ,,(here's where I get ripped apart for daring to say this) I know ozzie is the greatest thing since ice cream was invented but he just doesn't have  a good record of picking wideouts.we lucked out that marlon is as good as he is .

 

we need a creative offensive mind and also one on defense and also a better receivers coach the one we have is not developing them successfully. . lose the bend don't break and get someone who goes for the throat every single play . and for gods sake put elam in his natural position he excels there.

 

I believe the new oc is already on the staff and as much as I pray I am wrong I doubt it. no decent oline no offense. and stop making up titiles for John's friends just because they need a job.there were too many cooks in the kitchen and that's why our offense sucks so bad .

 

[Sami84]

Don't have the money for either. And Ozzie usually isn't a big spender. He builds through the draft.

 

sometimes the draft is not enough. I think its safe to say that we cant achieve what we want just through the draft. Going to have to get creative. the draft is never a sure thing. getting a guy like Mack or Byrd WILL make us better.

[Jokerraven]

sometimes the draft is not enough. I think its safe to say that we cant achieve what we want just through the draft. Going to have to get creative. the draft is never a sure thing. getting a guy like Mack or Byrd WILL make us better.

mack would definitely make us better . but he already stated that he is going to let  his team  match any offer he gets and we don't have the cap room for a bidding war .

[Sami84]

mack would definitely make us better . but he already stated that he is going to let  his team  match any offer he gets and we don't have the cap room for a bidding war .

 

So...Gino gets another year then? please..no Hes ranked the worst center in the league. The center position is what brings an O line together.

 

What would you do? im not sold on Swanson. Better than Gino? YES but for a 3rd round pick taking into consideration how many things we gotta fix?

[Jokerraven]

So...Gino gets another year then? please..no Hes ranked the worst center in the league. The center position is what brings an O line together.

 

What would you do? im not sold on Swanson. Better than Gino? YES but for a 3rd round pick taking into consideration how many things we gotta fix?

i agree with you about gino, but the steelers found two  fa's to fill there center spot and if we have to put a rookie in there  we repeat this season  IMO.we need one with experience but i have no clue who is available or will be available . I would like to think after this horrible year we learned that maybe we need to spend some money on a center cause it will pay off in the long run.

[Jokerraven]

I don't agree about Rice being done, but next year will tell the story this year the start of  zbs didn't go as planned . Shipley and Oher being the weaker links. No holes for the backs no pass protection for flacco. Castillo was hired to install zbs and teach it. I think wagner and Jensen are good fits for that scheme a full offseason and the correct personnel and it should allow us to be more productive and actually have a run game next season barring injuries. McKinnie verified this when he left and most people assumed it was sour grapes it wasn't .I believe our next OC is already on the staff and I hope I am wrong. We need to clean house on the coaching staff Moeller , Castillo, Caldwell too many cooks in the kitchen spoiled the oline . I am still bewildered by why we chose to stick with  zbs when obviously it was a huge failure. Shipley is useless and false start oher  has turned into a turnstile they need to be replaced . we have already drafted/signed two oline men that fit the scheme so we may not need to use a high draft pick on one ,Wagner and Jensen.

 

.

[ravensdfan]

Before we talk about benching Rice, let's get rid of the real problem which is Castillo. The man single handedly broke our run game and our O line. Not to mention Rice says he never fully recovered from the hip injury. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

 

I'd still keep splitting the touches between Pierce & Rice next season and see how everyone does.

 

But we've got to get rid of the scheme Castillo brought in and get back to how we used to do things.

[K-Dog]

I am a Rice fan and I HATE to agree with your assessment.
After seeing Pierce and....... that other guy,, ( just woke up sorry ) make fairly decent gains. Then watching Rice get completely blown up bouncing off Yanda.
*sigh*
Rice has some sort of balance / stability issue.

[Dr. Kelley]

Fire Castillo and caldwell. We will start improving right there before even having to worry about bringing in anyone else.

[Crabcakes&Football]

It was a bad situation this year. First of all the talent, Gino was the worst starting center in the entire league, Shipley wasn't much better at LG, and Oher had the worst season of a disappointing career. Yanda had a bad start to the year as well, even though he got to his usual level of excellence later in the season.

 

Fixing the O-line has to be priority level #1. They should definitely bring in a slew of free agents and draft picks, a mixture of experience, youth and talent. I'd put this well over new receivers/tight ends. Fix the O-line and it will have an effect on every level of offense. We need at least one starter to emerge out of that bunch and much better depth than what we had. Our depth is not very good. Jah Reid is a total bust, who knows what's going on with Wagner, Shipley was good for depth though. I'd love to see us pick up a vet center ala Birk or even Gurode. Someone who's experienced and smart, even if not as athletic or strong anymore can at least get the unit playing smarter so he can mask his deficiencies.

 

We'll have to take a wait and see approach with Rice. There's not a RB in his draft class that hasn't had a down year, but most of them have rebounded pretty well. But if Pierce is more effective then by all means give him more carries.

 

One last thing, get your scheme straight. Pick one and commit to it. If it is ZBS then get the players to fit it. I feel our current personnel is more suited to power blocking, with the exception of Gino. I don't know how good KO would fit in a ZBS, and who would you rather replace?

[GrimCoconut]

I think it's foolish to bench Rice. I've done some thinking and I think we need to evaluate this after camp not now. I do think we need to get a third RB but I don't feel like Rice is done yet. It could be the coordinating that caused him to have a bad year. The problems we had were offense wide so that's likely due to the coordinator.

I remember hearing that Rice is going to lose weight on the off-season to get faster. That'll be a good thing. I'm pretty excited for that and I feel we might see the return of what we expect out of Rice.

[The Raven]

Can we take a page out of the Eagles playbook? I watched them run all over the Cowboys tonight under center and in shotgun, and they didn't run the read-option like most people think they do.  Also, they do not have giant OL (outside Jason Peters who is a beast) but rather smaller guys that can get to the 2nd level. Their center is small by NFL OL standards. Granted Rice/Pierce/whoever has to get to be able to get to the second level, but I don't think we need these giant maulers either.  

 

Ironically when you think about it, Juan Castillo was on the Eagles staff for a long time, the first year he's completely gone, they lead the league in rushing.  Coincidence? (And yes I know he was a DC for a couple years, just saying its kinda funny)

 

Yeah, you might be on to something there, but you're not. He had quite a few top five rushing years when he was the OL coach.

 

By the way, you want to take a page out of the Eagles playbook? They run zone blocking, exactly like Castillo does. 

[The Raven]

Castillo is not responsible for the players FAILING to learn and execute a very simple scheme. It's not all his fault that this run game was so bad. His scheme works. It's proven. Our players fit the mold of zone blocking linemen. Gino is a quick guy. Yanda can be quick. Oher has bad footwork but he's uber athletic. He really didn't put square pegs in round holes. Oher and Shipley just suck, and Gino didn't learn quickly enough. simple, no? I don't want to sound smug, but if you know a thing about oline, you can see that the scheme is there, the guys just didn't execute it.

[Tank 92]

Why did RR fall down before any contact on just about every run? Why?  If he was still injured and afraid of contact why was he on the field? The root of the running game woes were not on him, but that crap was painful to watch.

 

The O line has to be fixed. Obviously we have two or three players that are just not NFL starters.

 

It goes without saying that you at least need the threat of a run game to have a successful, championship caliber offense. Ultimately the O line/running game is what did us in this year. I trust this will be Priority One in the off season.

[tolucaraven]

Rice needs to get in shape and be healthy. He is pushing close to 230 not 212.

Oher, gino have to go with Castillo.

KO comes back healthy.

Add C.

Draft or sign quick back. 3rd round or so.

Resign Monroe.

Wagner to RT. Not possible to be worse than Oher.

[tolucaraven]

I am a Rice fan and I HATE to agree with your assessment.
After seeing Pierce and....... that other guy,, ( just woke up sorry ) make fairly decent gains. Then watching Rice get completely blown up bouncing off Yanda.
*sigh*
Rice has some sort of balance / stability issue.

[tolucaraven]

I am a Rice fan and I HATE to agree with your assessment.
After seeing Pierce and....... that other guy,, ( just woke up sorry ) make fairly decent gains. Then watching Rice get



completely blown up bouncing off Yanda.
*sigh*
Rice has some sort of balance / stability issue.

Yeah. He got too muscular and fat. He is a fulllback now. HIS rookie year he was 200lbs. Now closer to 230.

[The Don 20]

Yeah, you might be on to something there, but you're not. He had quite a few top five rushing years when he was the OL coach.

 

By the way, you want to take a page out of the Eagles playbook? They run zone blocking, exactly like Castillo does. 

Castillo's best year as the Eagles OL coach was when Westbrook ran for 1300 yards in 2007.  That was the year McNabb came back from his ACL year so he was the work horse. I want an O-line that can get to the second level.  That is the point I was making. The Castillo thing was tongue in cheek with everyone hating him, but mobile OL is the way to go.  It also helps with the screen game.  If we run a quick screen, our backs are quickly out ahead of the lineman.  When we let a screen develop, the OL isn't mobile enough to make plays.  You start connecting on screens, you slow down the DL giving Joe more time, and you also open up the draw game.  Getting the run game back on track is the key to making this offense go.  

 

Focusing on the run game, they went from a bottom 5 offense to a top 5 offense.  

[Ravenslifer]

To fix the run game, we definitely need to fix the line - assuming KO comes back healthy, I'd say center and right tackle should be addressed in the draft (I'm assuming we resign Monroe and let Oher walk).  I'd also draft a TE and/or possession receiver early and find somebody somewhere who understands the concept of using high percentage short passing plays.  The whole offense to me was dysfunctional and feeding off of itself - runs for no gain put us in a lot of 3rd and longs, and at the same time running a bunch of deep passing Iso routes that were completed half the time kept us in those long situations and didn't allow us to run on third downs.  It's no coincidence that three of the top 5 passing yardage teams, the Broncos, Lions, and Bears, all average at least 110 yards per game and all over 4 yards per attempt.

[SecretAgentMan]

To fix the run game, we definitely need to fix the line - assuming KO comes back healthy, I'd say center and right tackle should be addressed in the draft (I'm assuming we resign Monroe and let Oher walk).  I'd also draft a TE and/or possession receiver early and find somebody somewhere who understands the concept of using high percentage short passing plays.  The whole offense to me was dysfunctional and feeding off of itself - runs for no gain put us in a lot of 3rd and longs, and at the same time running a bunch of deep passing Iso routes that were completed half the time kept us in those long situations and didn't allow us to run on third downs.  It's no coincidence that three of the top 5 passing yardage teams, the Broncos, Lions, and Bears, all average at least 110 yards per game and all over 4 yards per attempt.

IDK. I like Wagner and want to give Gino another year.

 

If we do anything in FA I think we retool the oline

[TDubbs]

This season we all saw the accumulation of taking ALOT of carries the last few seasons for Ray Rice. When your taking 300+ carries for years straight, rarely missing games, it adds up (see Arian Foster). With a longer off-season and time to reflect, Rice will come back better next year. And let's face it, we need him, and his contract makes it so he's here next season. 

[Guest Im An Ozzie Newsome Guy]

I'm convinced Ray Rice will return to form in 2014. As long as his recent quotes are truthful and Rice plans on cutting some weight and getting in shape, he will be on the right path to return to his old ways.

Problem is, once again, the offensive line. In actuality, no one could have had success running through that line (except for maybe Adrian Peterson). Although, I will say Rice showed some flashes latter on in the season (that makes me believe he is hungry to put-up "numbers", again); look at the Bears game and some of the runs he had against New England. While those 2 teams weren't exactly known for stopping the run, this season, Ray Rice showed that, despite his hip flexor strain, he was capable of still being effective (and it was the o-line and play-calling that held him back).

Ray Rice is also the closest thing to being a starting running back on this team. While there were times when I called for Bernard Pierce to get more carries, earlier in the year, the guy gets too nicked-up to be the starter. I will argue, however, that the Ravens need a big, inside-the-tackles 'back to compliment Rice and Pierce. Kenny Hillard comes to mind; Baltimore should definitely consider drafting him on day 3 of the NFL Draft.

I think the trio of Rice/Pierce/Hillard will be perfect. The team just needs to fix the o-line and its philosophy. Also, the Ravens have to be certain if they plan on using a fullback or not. I mean, what was the point of keeping Vonta Leach if Jim Caldwell had the offense line-up in the pistol or shotgun, most of the time?

[omar586]

i think the problem this year is the RUN GAME, the run game was terrible, that created a lots of problems, we couldn't milk the clock, became one dimensional, a lot of 3nouts, tired Defense, predictable and opponents would only game plan for your passing game, that's all.