Melt thread: Bengals version

[Militant X 1]

hes may have those attributes but they've bbeen enhanced by better coaching

 

That's the whole point of the comparison.

 

My bad. I misread a sentence. 

 

However, I stand by a point that you're putting too much of an emphasis on draft position. Athleticism and playing in a relatively big conference were the primary reason Torrey went in the 2nd. He was raw and had questionable hands but the team was willing to overlook that. Brown played at tiny Central Michigan and while he played well there, he wasn't big and had a pedestrian Combine. Still, what he excels at are simply conducive to better production. Coaching has definitely played a bigger factor why he's developed into a better player but the QB (I'd say Ben is a better QB than Joe), utilization and scheme have been bigger reasons in my view. 

 

 

 

True. 

 

No problem brah!  I think that you are getting too technical in your responses.  I keep things simple man!  I'm using draft position as a basis for the question as to....why one cat is viewed as better than the other when their draft positions are vastly different?   In this case.....Brown is drafted in the 6th round and Torrey is drafted in the 2nd round.  And yet; Brown....is considered so much better than Torrey.  Why is that?

 

I've been stating what I feel the reason for that is in my previous posts and you just mentioned it in your post above and then you agreed with Arnie's statement about it as well.  Coaching!  That was all I was getting at brah!  Coaching!  IF Brown was all of that as a receiver he would have went higher in rounds.  He didn't!  But now, he is considered one of the best in the league!  Amazing!  So, the difference between a 6th rounder outshining a 2nd rounder (without talking about schools, systems, QB's, athleticism, hands, quicks etc.) is the coaching that he's receiving!

 

#Mili

[Ultimate_RavensFan52]

Link to bring back Anquan Boldin must sign!!!!

 

https://www.change.org/petitions/baltimore-ravens-bring-back-anquan-boldin

 

 

[BALTIMOREFLACCO]

Link to bring back Anquan Boldin must sign!!!!

 

https://www.change.org/petitions/baltimore-ravens-bring-back-anquan-boldin

 

Bring back Troy Smith!!!

[Ravenslifer]

That's the whole point of the comparison.

 

 

No problem brah!  I think that you are getting too technical in your responses.  I keep things simple man!  I'm using draft position as a basis for the question as to....why one cat is viewed as better than the other when their draft positions are vastly different?   In this case.....Brown is drafted in the 6th round and Torrey is drafted in the 2nd round.  And yet; Brown....is considered so much better than Torrey.  Why is that?

 

I've been stating what I feel the reason for that is in my previous posts and you just mentioned it in your post above and then you agreed with Arnie's statement about it as well.  Coaching!  That was all I was getting at brah!  Coaching!  IF Brown was all of that as a receiver he would have went higher in rounds.  He didn't!  But now, he is considered one of the best in the league!  Amazing!  So, the difference between a 6th rounder outshining a 2nd rounder (without talking about schools, systems, QB's, athleticism, hands, quicks etc.) is the coaching that he's receiving!

 

#Mili

 

I think scheme has a lot to do with it as well - Brown catches a ton of screens and hitches, and is top 10 in YAC yards every year.  Torrey gets way too many deep passes, and is way down there in YAC yards with a slow guy like Eric Decker.  I still don't get why they aren't trying to emphasize that aspect of Torrey's game - that's pretty much all he did in college because his QBs had noodle arms.  I feel like this team has used Torrey like a one-trick pony when he's capable of a lot more.

[Militant X 1]

I think scheme has a lot to do with it as well - Brown catches a ton of screens and hitches, and is top 10 in YAC yards every year.  Torrey gets way too many deep passes, and is way down there in YAC yards with a slow guy like Eric Decker.  I still don't get why they aren't trying to emphasize that aspect of Torrey's game - that's pretty much all he did in college because his QBs had noodle arms.  I feel like this team has used Torrey like a one-trick pony when he's capable of a lot more.

 

That falls into the category of "systems" that I mentioned above.  Of course that has a part to play in it.  But not the only reason or main reason to me.  Coaching is major!  And I agree with you that Torrey is being used as a 1 trick pony in Baltimore and other playerson our roster as well.

 

#Mili

[TwinRivers]

Flacco had an awful season, we can admit that right?

Yep. It's like he was trolling without bait on the hook. Flacco could have snagged a whale! LOL.

[RedFire]

Well Bungals are out too. I ain't got no worries!

San Diego with a half competent offense got it done against them....damn our offense was awful at times and the lack of any run game made me mad cause we cost ourselves some wins.

[redrum52]

For some strange reason, I feel better now.  I'm over the loss.  

 

Off topic, feeling much better about next year.  Bengals finally have the 1st place schedule and we get to play a 3rd play schedule in who nows how long.  This team will be back with a vengeance with an even half way decent draft.  Can't wait to see how this team looks between now and pre season.

[Bltravens]

Dalton is awful in big games.  If our offense wasn't equally as terrible, including Flacco, in wk 17 Dalton would have single handedly put us in the playoffs.  

[PurpleCorsair]

I think scheme has a lot to do with it as well - Brown catches a ton of screens and hitches, and is top 10 in YAC yards every year.  Torrey gets way too many deep passes, and is way down there in YAC yards with a slow guy like Eric Decker.  I still don't get why they aren't trying to emphasize that aspect of Torrey's game - that's pretty much all he did in college because his QBs had noodle arms.  I feel like this team has used Torrey like a one-trick pony when he's capable of a lot more.

 

Early in the season they used Torrey on drags and crossing routes, and he would run through defenses. Then for some reason we stopped doing that.

[The Raven]

Early in the season they used Torrey on drags and crossing routes, and he would run through defenses. Then for some reason we stopped doing that.

 

We didn't really stop, teams just finally realized that if they pressed Torrey, he couldn't get open over the middle

[Tank 92]

http://nfl.si.com/2014/01/05/andy-dalton-cincinnati-bengals-san-diego-chargers/

 

Well, the red rocket does it again.  Kind of puts things in perspective for a lot of folks, I would hope.

 

"In a 27-10 loss, Dalton only further fueled the notion that this Cincinnati team has maxed out what it can accomplish with him at the helm, even though his coach disagrees."

[RedFire]

For some strange reason, I feel better now. I'm over the loss.

Off topic, feeling much better about next year. Bengals finally have the 1st place schedule and we get to play a 3rd play schedule in who nows how long. This team will be back with a vengeance with an even half way decent draft. Can't wait to see how this team looks between now and pre season.

But how long will the steelers stay down? I felt this should have been our 3rd AFC championship game in a row and 2nd Super Bowl in a row. Steelers will come back at some point and it was imperative we took advantage of this window and pull the superbowl race closer at 4 (colt one counts) Baltimore - 6 steelers

[redrum52]

But how long will the steelers stay down? I felt this should have been our 3rd AFC championship game in a row and 2nd Super Bowl in a row. Steelers will come back at some point and it was imperative we took advantage of this window and pull the superbowl race closer at 4 (colt one counts) Baltimore - 6 steelers

Cap still bad and the defense is still declining to me.  We are still ahead, I think our difference is honestly coaching not doing what they should with our guys.  We are a few pieces from being a very well balanced team.  As "bad" as people say our offense is, if we are finally able to draft that "true #1" imagine how good our offense is now moving guys into a more comfortable role.  I know people will fix in on RT, but if we can pick up a starting caliber center, I'm good with 4 of 5 o-lineman being good.  You can work around that.  Those pieces alone with the return of a healthy Pitta will drastically increase the offenses production.  

[redrum52]

http://nfl.si.com/2014/01/05/andy-dalton-cincinnati-bengals-san-diego-chargers/

 

Well, the red rocket does it again.  Kind of puts things in perspective for a lot of folks, I would hope.

 

"In a 27-10 loss, Dalton only further fueled the notion that this Cincinnati team has maxed out what it can accomplish with him at the helm, even though his coach disagrees."

I've made the mistake of calling him the "Red Rocket", it's the Red Rifle.  And yes, there is a difference.  Don't believe me?  Youtube South Park Red Rocket

[Tank 92]

I've made the mistake of calling him the "Red Rocket", it's the Red Rifle.  And yes, there is a difference.  Don't believe me?  Youtube South Park Red Rocket

lol. Rifle, rocket, whatever. Seems he is a choker on the big stage.

[cursona pirate]

Lol this game was two weeks ago now. We should be over it. Let's get ready for next year. Can't wait to see what happens in the offseason. Even though I'm scared we might see some big names/fan favorites leaving like last year.

But we hope for the best.

[redrum52]

Just thought it would be funny for some to read the comments on this BR article http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1911786-chargers-vs-bengals-live-game-grades-and-analysis-for-cincinnati.  Just look at the comments and tell me if it isn't familiar...  Seems fan bases are more similar than we want to think.

[Tank 92]

Cap still bad and the defense is still declining to me.  We are still ahead, I think our difference is honestly coaching not doing what they should with our guys.  We are a few pieces from being a very well balanced team.  As "bad" as people say our offense is, if we are finally able to draft that "true #1" imagine how good our offense is now moving guys into a more comfortable role.  I know people will fix in on RT, but if we can pick up a starting caliber center, I'm good with 4 of 5 o-lineman being good.  You can work around that.  Those pieces alone with the return of a healthy Pitta will drastically increase the offenses production.

Pretty much agree with all you say here. And how much longer will Jen last? He's taken a lot of hits in 10 years and is lookin a little creaky.

No matter how much he improved, Gino's not the answer and C looks to be the biggest need on O line as long as KO comes back healthy.

Losing Pitta blew a hole in the pre season plan this year and getting him back will be key.

[Poes Crows]

For some strange reason, I feel better now.  I'm over the loss.  

 

Off topic, feeling much better about next year.  Bengals finally have the 1st place schedule and we get to play a 3rd play schedule in who nows how long.  This team will be back with a vengeance with an even half way decent draft.  Can't wait to see how this team looks between now and pre season.

 

That schedule is already out and its no cakewalk.

 

I'm predicting 6-10 for the Ravens next year based upon our current weaknesses and Ozzie's modus operandi. That is without reference to the details regarding Draft and Free Agent acquisitions, but discounting Ozzie's Draft decisions, which but for a couple players have been poor overall for a number of years.  

[Poes Crows]

lol. Rifle, rocket, whatever. Seems he is a choker on the big stage.

 

He's mistake prone. They have problems if they think he's the leader they sought.

[Sami84]

I think People on this forum need to look at things without sugar coating.

 

This team will NOT get that much better in 1 season. 

 

Ozzies average drafting since 2009 and the overpaid past there prime cap eating stars will have repercussions.

 

i Predict a 9-7 1 and out in the playoffs.

 

UNLESS ozzie has a 1996 like draft and gets legit upgrades in FA...

 

We cant afford with this team to have the likes (similar standard) of Carr or washingtons on our roster again. Sadly...that may happen

[Poes Crows]

Dalton is awful in big games.  If our offense wasn't equally as terrible, including Flacco, in wk 17 Dalton would have single handedly put us in the playoffs.  

 

Perspective is everything.

 

Dalton handed us two key early interceptions and we put 6 whole points on the board. He gave us two more and we scored 1 offensive touchdown all game.  We never had a chance. We were never in the game. 

 

We couldn't have stayed on the same planet with San Diego or any other Playoff Team this year.  We are who they said we are and it ain't pretty.

[flynismo]

I think People on this forum need to look at things without sugar coating.

This team will NOT get that much better in 1 season.

Ozzies average drafting since 2009 and the overpaid past there prime cap eating stars will have repercussions.

i Predict a 9-7 1 and out in the playoffs.

UNLESS ozzie has a 1996 like draft and gets legit upgrades in FA...

We cant afford with this team to have the likes (similar standard) of Carr or washingtons on our roster again. Sadly...that may happen

I think it is difficult, but very possible, to turn this ship around in the upcoming off-season.
Should be interesting...

[redrum52]

That schedule is already out and its no cakewalk.

I'm predicting 6-10 for the Ravens next year based upon our current weaknesses and Ozzie's modus operandi. That is without reference to the details regarding Draft and Free Agent acquisitions, but discounting Ozzie's Draft decisions, which but for a couple players have been poor overall for a number of years.

I will bet the team finishes with at least 9 wins. An improved o line and healthy Pitta is good for at least 1 more win. I highly doubt another weapon isn't put on the offensive side. The pass rushers getting healthy will improve the defense as well. Look at how many close games we had with a historically bad run game and porous o line. They could go either way, but I see those games turning into wins next year.

[Tru11]

I think People on this forum need to look at things without sugar coating.

 

This team will NOT get that much better in 1 season. 

 

Ozzies average drafting since 2009 and the overpaid past there prime cap eating stars will have repercussions.

 

i Predict a 9-7 1 and out in the playoffs.

 

UNLESS ozzie has a 1996 like draft and gets legit upgrades in FA...

 

We cant afford with this team to have the likes (similar standard) of Carr or washingtons on our roster again. Sadly...that may happen

 

 

Lol we have all the pieces we need to be an succesfull team.

 

what we will do with what we have comes down to scheme we use.

 

We will go as far as the coaching makes us go.

 

If any just look at Belichick and how he makes the scheme fits the players he has and not like we do force the players to play a scheme that doesent fit them.

 

we did not even need the 2012 post season offense to be succesfull.

the 2012 regular season offense would have us in the play offs again.

however someone tought it was a good idea to fix something that did not seem broken....

[izvoodoo]

I think People on this forum need to look at things without sugar coating.

 

This team will NOT get that much better in 1 season. 

 

Ozzies average drafting since 2009 and the overpaid past there prime cap eating stars will have repercussions.

 

i Predict a 9-7 1 and out in the playoffs.

 

UNLESS ozzie has a 1996 like draft and gets legit upgrades in FA...

 

We cant afford with this team to have the likes (similar standard) of Carr or washingtons on our roster again. Sadly...that may happen

How were they past their prime... Every player on this team with a sizeable contract was signed after their rookie contract.

Blame the players, they're the ones underperforming.  And yes, Ozzie hasn't drafted terribly well, but he's still drafter better than 2/3rds of the league.

[The Raven]

I think People on this forum need to look at things without sugar coating.

 

This team will NOT get that much better in 1 season. 

 

Ozzies average drafting since 2009 and the overpaid past there prime cap eating stars will have repercussions.

 

i Predict a 9-7 1 and out in the playoffs.

 

UNLESS ozzie has a 1996 like draft and gets legit upgrades in FA...

 

We cant afford with this team to have the likes (similar standard) of Carr or washingtons on our roster again. Sadly...that may happen

 

LOL! So, we went from 5-11 in 07 to 11-5 in 08, but you think we can't get better than 8-8 next season? If you can go from a Superbowl winner to 8-8 in one year, surely you can get back to the Superbowl the next year, especially when we have our main core intact.  

[Ed_Reed20]

LOL! So, we went from 5-11 in 07 to 11-5 in 08, but you think we can't get better than 8-8 next season? If you can go from a Superbowl winner to 8-8 in one year, surely you can get back to the Superbowl the next year, especially when we have our main core intact.  

 

Too much logic. It makes more sense to wallow in negativity. Think some folks would prefer rooting for a losing team.