Preston Article: Patriots knew plays, offense dysfunctional

[runamuk]

You just hit on the head why we started the ZBS install this year. We would soon have the guys to run it, and why wait until next year to install it knowing it would make for a tough season. Get the rough season out of the way now. Gino just might fit ZBS well im hoping he has a good offseason. We finish installing it get another offseason and draft under our belt and hit next season hard, oh and not to mention our season isn't over yet. We can still make playoffs. ZBS is our future people just need to get on board.

 

Air Coryell is what our current offense is built for. The problem is the lack of consistent run game and possession receiver in the slot. We won the Superbowl just last year running the Coryell offense, one rough season(that isn't over) and now people are calling for it to be trashed. Now I will say that things could change if we can't put another quality deep threat on the field if Jacoby leaves.

we will make the playoffs how far we go is anyone's guess . I remain positive I have been through seasons much worse then this in balto. if more fans see it actually improving our offense and not the mess we have been watching no one will need any convincing .

[Militant X 1]

They game planned for Taylor last year in that week 17 game...

That's 1 game last year.  Let it go!  lol!  Until Tyrod gets an opportunity to be the starter for a few games in a row to truly get his feet wet; I'm not writing him off!

 

Go Ravens!!

 

#Mili

[Ravensfan23]

the gino information I got from who's playing who's not on the news side of the forums. I hope they let oher walk just my personal opinion. I hope it works  better for us next year and even if it doesn't I'm still going to be watching. I was surprised that ozzie traded for  a lt   as well and he made a good choice .I enjoyed chatting you have well thought out intelligent responses . I actually have learned allot since this thread was started and I have a better understanding  now then before so thanks for that.

 

No problem man, I appreciate it.

 

As for things hopefully being better next year, I think because of the "get it now" society we live in people often forget that when looking to change something, things often look worse before they actually get better. It's not Madden Football where you can just plug new guys in and not expect to miss a beat. It takes time to develop but talent and chemistry. As bad as things looked against the Pats, we were a few failed 4th down attempts in scoring position away from making that game much closer then what it was. If Flacco hits that first deep pass it's a different game. So we often times allow the results of something to shape our views and opinions. When in reality it's so much more that takes place.

 

The key to this offense and any offense is the oline. Many people including myself have make the comment this year that Ozzie isn't doing enough to take care of that line that's intended to protect the 120M dollar QB. But that's just not true. When you strip away the emotion of wanting to see this team succeed and you look at the facts Ozzie has tried to get Joe the proper protection, it just hasn't always worked out. We traded for a potential franchise LT. He's not great but who actually knows who Ryan Diem was outside of die hard fans? So he doesn't need to be great, just consistently good. KO was a high draft pick. Yanda is a pro bowler and we actually traded up for guys like Reid and Gino. So Ozzie has put forth the effort and I think bringing in Castillo was as much about his ability to teach the oline then anything.

 

I too think and want Oher to walk. I think he's a solid player but he's not what we need at RT. When he's good he's really good, but he too inconsistent and will cost more then we are willing to pay. I think Wagner will be able to hold down that spot next year. He was said to be really shining under the coaching of Castillo in training camp. So we'll see.

[DomMcRaven]

 

I think the Flacco not having control thing is overblown and as much as I don't like it, the Ravens are right to do what they are doing. I'd love to see Flacco run the offense at the LOS, but our overall offense doesn't seem ready for that and the #1 goal is for this team to win. If we allowed Flacco to have full control over the offense with the way our guys mess up assignments, we would have had to just throw our hands up and call this a rebuilding year. Don't worry about winning game, just go out there and allow our passing game to take its lumps. Trial by Fire.

 

Now don't get me wrong, I still want to see Caldwell call better plays and make things easier, but I think his hands are tied honestly.

 

As for the offense we can expect to see moving forward. Just watch highlights of Peyton Manning led Colts offenses and you'll get your answer imo. It's hard to see right now because the offense looks so bad, but if you watch closely and strip away all the emotions of wanting to see the offense perform well, you'll see a lot of similarities between the two offenses. Now of course Joe isn't Peyton mentally and that's a huge reason why that simplistic offense worked so well. But Joe is smart enough, make good enough decision and where Peyton was able to attack all areas with anticipation, Joe can attack with his arm strength.

 

Now of course i'm not saying Flacco is or better then Manning, this isn't about that. But when you look at this offense there are a lot of similarities with the Colts offense when Caldwell was there. Even down to having the slot WR chip block the DE before releasing into routes at times. Brown and Doss has done that a lot this year. The biggest difference is the Oline and WR positions. I think with an upgrade at C and RT well be fine in that area. But at WR those guys did a much better job of running routes then our guys, but it really was only two guys. Marvin Harrison and Dallas Clark. The rest of those guys just got open because of the space those two created and even Reggie Wayne was never a great route runner(he developed into one). He was a lot like Torrey.

 

When Torrey had great numbers early in the season it was because we were using him on every level and he was killing with those crossing patterns, a lot like Reggie Wayne did a lot. Then we went back to what we were before Caldwell and Torrey fell off because he was used as seemingly a deep threat only. This offense isn't as bad as it appears imo and although we are all upset with the result, I don't think there needs to be many changes.

Really good points. Thanks for the knowledge.

 

 

 

Air Coryell is what our current offense is built for. The problem is the lack of consistent run game and possession receiver in the slot. We won the Superbowl just last year running the Coryell offense, one rough season(that isn't over) and now people are calling for it to be trashed. Now I will say that things could change if we can't put another quality deep threat on the field if Jacoby leaves.

Really good points. We all know Ozzie is a top 5 GM in the league right now, and he's no fool. He knows that if we can build around Flacco (OL, WR and even RB), we will be alright. Hopefully the defense can be reloaded and we could possibly have a balanced team offensively and defensively next year. 

[Jokerraven]

 this thread has been very interesting and informative  and not snarky and condescending like other threads. You can tell the posters were trying to explain something that most fans don't understand and they did an excellent job. ravensfan23,5aiah, and runamuk thanks I have learned more since this thread started then I have in the year I have been reading these forums.

 

 

 

[5aiah]

 

 this thread has been very interesting and informative  and not snarky and condescending like other threads. You can tell the posters were trying to explain something that most fans don't understand and they did an excellent job. ravensfan23,5aiah, and runamuk thanks I have learned more since this thread started then I have in the year I have been reading these forums.

 

 

 

 

I'm just trying to learn more too but there is a lot of misinformation out there. I'm going to want a lot of info on how Jensen and Wagner develop this offseason. If we could insert one of them successfully into the ZBS scheme instead of having to waste a high draft pick, that would be great.

[H8R]

And your idea of him being horrible "case close" and all of that is vastly different from mine! Tyrod had a nice gain for about 15 yards I believe on that wildcat play. It was a very nice spark to the offense! And what you don't want to see I do! Cause until Tyrod is actually starting a full game or games and the coaching staff is focused on him as such in his preparation; the last 2 minutes of last weeks game (a game in which the starters themselves played like trash) or the last game of the season vs. the Bengals (which cats want to keep hanging over his head) last season is not an indicator that he is not a NFL QB.

#Mili

What I saw from him from VT as well as what he's shown in the preseason , and even when I got to watch him in training camp.... None of it was impressive . I will place a friendly wager saying that Tyrod will be nothing more then a gimmick play, 2nd string QB. We had this same sort of club when Troy Smith was here... He just signed with A CFL team for a future contract.... YAY. You're hoping for something that isn't there, that's different from seeing what he is.

[Jokerraven]

I'm just trying to learn more too but there is a lot of misinformation out there. I'm going to want a lot of info on how Jensen and Wagner develop this offseason. If we could insert one of them successfully into the ZBS scheme instead of having to waste a high draft pick, that would be great.

when this thread started all I knew of zbs was that it was the reason our offense was messed up and that although we had used zone stretch blocking for several years . Inside zone blocking was being taught by Castillo and it wasn't working with the players we have. I don't even think allot of fans realize inside zbs is new to this offense they just think we suck because gino is undersized, or McKinnie was lazy,ray rice has lost a step or joe is a one trick pony  etc etc. and when you see yanda tap gino before every single snap of the ball everyone assumes its all gino's fault. I have really enjoyed the comments and post in this thread. and hope others have learned something too.

[T3hRaven]

In any case, I feel like Castillo is here to stay, atleast for a while. I still hope we change OC and get a QBC. Also, a new WR coach wouldn't hurt either. I know, that this is a radical and fast change and we rarely see those in the Harbs era, but the Ravens need to finally get better at building passing offenses.

Outside of our playoff run, I can't recall the Ravens having a consistently dangerous passing attack and after this season, it almost feels like we lucked into it and don't know, how to get back to that.

 

I don't think Castillo is 100% safe.  We fired Matsko for having major injuries and personnel deficiencies force an entire shift along the OL so pretty much everyone was playing out of position, and he held it together.  Of course the ZBS really came into effect after he was fired, so maybe it was for a schematic change, but still.

[The Raven]

After watching some clips of the Houston running game the last few seasons, I want Moeller fired, and I want to keep Castillo. After seeing their line perfectly execute the inside zone blocking scheme and the stretch zone blocking scheme, I'm completely convinced that our problem is the players and not the scheme. I've been skeptical about the inside ZBS, but now I've seen and studied exactly how it works, and there's no reason at all we shouldn't be able to do it. It is EASY and SIMPLE.

 

Watching the ZBS executed well also makes me feel better about Gino, and worse about Oher. In football, one player's mistake makes the entire team look bad. That is twice as true with the ZBS. One bad step from anyone and it's screwed. I remember a lot of times Yanda or Gino looked bad because Oher missed a block and the RB got stuck in the backfield. You really need everyone working perfectly.

[jimjim5]

After watching some clips of the Houston running game the last few seasons, I want Moeller fired, and I want to keep Castillo. After seeing their line perfectly execute the inside zone blocking scheme and the stretch zone blocking scheme, I'm completely convinced that our problem is the players and not the scheme. I've been skeptical about the inside ZBS, but now I've seen and studied exactly how it works, and there's no reason at all we shouldn't be able to do it. It is EASY and SIMPLE.

 

Watching the ZBS executed well also makes me feel better about Gino, and worse about Oher. In football, one player's mistake makes the entire team look bad. That is twice as true with the ZBS. One bad step from anyone and it's screwed. I remember a lot of times Yanda or Gino looked bad because Oher missed a block and the RB got stuck in the backfield. You really need everyone working perfectly.

 

i also remember way more times that Oher looked bad because Gino and Yanda were straight missing blocks. Oher was our best lineman at the beginning of the year. You somehow forgot how KO, Yanda, and Gino looked like hot garbage at the beginning of the season.

[T3hRaven]

After watching some clips of the Houston running game the last few seasons, I want Moeller fired, and I want to keep Castillo. After seeing their line perfectly execute the inside zone blocking scheme and the stretch zone blocking scheme, I'm completely convinced that our problem is the players and not the scheme. I've been skeptical about the inside ZBS, but now I've seen and studied exactly how it works, and there's no reason at all we shouldn't be able to do it. It is EASY and SIMPLE.

Watching the ZBS executed well also makes me feel better about Gino, and worse about Oher. In football, one player's mistake makes the entire team look bad. That is twice as true with the ZBS. One bad step from anyone and it's screwed. I remember a lot of times Yanda or Gino looked bad because Oher missed a block and the RB got stuck in the backfield. You really need everyone working perfectly.

I'm not sure that means we need to keep Castillo, but there's nothing wrong with the ZBS and it's something we need to keep. Most lineman coming out now are more athletic than the traditional road graders were. Yanda can fit any scheme and Monroe is a perfect fit in the ZBS.

[arnie_uk]

After watching some clips of the Houston running game the last few seasons, I want Moeller fired, and I want to keep Castillo. After seeing their line perfectly execute the inside zone blocking scheme and the stretch zone blocking scheme, I'm completely convinced that our problem is the players and not the scheme. I've been skeptical about the inside ZBS, but now I've seen and studied exactly how it works, and there's no reason at all we shouldn't be able to do it. It is EASY and SIMPLE.

Watching the ZBS executed well also makes me feel better about Gino, and worse about Oher. In football, one player's mistake makes the entire team look bad. That is twice as true with the ZBS. One bad step from anyone and it's screwed. I remember a lot of times Yanda or Gino looked bad because Oher missed a block and the RB got stuck in the backfield. You really need everyone working perfectly.

trying to fit a square peg into a round hole is the coaches fault not the players. We shouldn't have been doing something that doesnt suit our team. Mckinnie is not a zbs guy at all either.

Drafting players and making them fit x scheme instead of creating the scheme to suit said players is a sure way to get fired. Unless of course u draft players solely oon the basis of them being able to play that scheme.

[Militant X 1]

What I saw from him from VT as well as what he's shown in the preseason , and even when I got to watch him in training camp.... None of it was impressive . I will place a friendly wager saying that Tyrod will be nothing more then a gimmick play, 2nd string QB. We had this same sort of club when Troy Smith was here... He just signed with A CFL team for a future contract.... YAY. You're hoping for something that isn't there, that's different from seeing what he is.

Different from seeing what is?  I'm from Tyrod's area here in VA and I have been watching and following this kid since his H.S. days brah!  Perhaps that means nothing to you or others on this board but it does to me!  As a Virginia Tech fan as well, I know the caliber of player that he is.  I won't site all of the records that he has smashed at VT as a QB.  No need cause they speak for themselves!  Now, that doesn't always translate over to the pros...I get that!  But who is to say what Tyrod won't be when his role on the team has been considerably reduced?  All of the constant Troy Smith comparisons when Tyrod's name is mentioned on these boards are useless and pointless.  If anything; they prove that QB's with similar skill sets as these two men; if they go to Baltimore....they will be reduced to "gimmick" roles and waste away!  Smh!  I have stated in the past and will continue to do so; Tyrod's agent need to get him the hell away from the Baltimore Ravens quick, fast and in a hurry to find a better situation for him to advance his career as a NFL QB cause the Ravens are not the answer!

 

Go Ravens!!

 

#Mili

[arnie_uk]

Different from seeing what is?  I'm from Tyrod's area here in VA and I have been watching and following this kid since his H.S. days brah!  Perhaps that means nothing to you or others on this board but it does to me!  As a Virginia Tech fan as well, I know the caliber of player that he is.  I won't site all of the records that he has smashed at VT as a QB.  No need cause they speak for themselves!  Now, that doesn't always translate over to the pros...I get that!  But who is to say what Tyrod won't be when his role on the team has been considerably reduced?  All of the constant Troy Smith comparisons when Tyrod's name is mentioned on these boards are useless and pointless.  If anything; they prove that QB's with similar skill sets as these two men; if they go to Baltimore....they will be reduced to "gimmick" roles and waste away!  Smh!  I have stated in the past and will continue to do so; Tyrod's agent need to get him the hell away from the Baltimore Ravens quick, fast and in a hurry to find a better situation for him to advance his career as a NFL QB cause the Ravens are not the answer!
 
Go Ravens!!
 
#Mili

back to front. Tyrod isn't the answer and he went ever be. Your clearly biased when it comes to him

[The Raven]

i also remember way more times that Oher looked bad because Gino and Yanda were straight missing blocks. Oher was our best lineman at the beginning of the year. You somehow forgot how KO, Yanda, and Gino looked like hot garbage at the beginning of the season.

 

KO and Gino, yes, they looked bad. Yanda was okay. 

 

Oher, best linemen at the beginning of the year? Nope! Bye bye credibility.

 

I'm not sure that means we need to keep Castillo, but there's nothing wrong with the ZBS and it's something we need to keep. Most lineman coming out now are more athletic than the traditional road graders were. Yanda can fit any scheme and Monroe is a perfect fit in the ZBS.

 

I'm just starting to buy in to Castillo's scheme. I looked at some clips of what he did in Philly and what the Texans do, and we should be very able to execute the scheme. If you ask me, everyone has it down except Oher and Shipley. Even Gino has it down now. Yanda has adjusted to it and is back in his dominant form. Monroe got it right away.

 

trying to fit a square peg into a round hole is the coaches fault not the players. We shouldn't have been doing something that doesnt suit our team. Mckinnie is not a zbs guy at all either.

Drafting players and making them fit x scheme instead of creating the scheme to suit said players is a sure way to get fired. Unless of course u draft players solely oon the basis of them being able to play that scheme.

 

 

The problem with this is that our players ARE capable of playing in a ZBS. I've seen them all make the right blocks in this scheme. They ARE capable of it. They DO fit the scheme. They all, except Shipley, are agile, powerful linemen who can move laterally, get movement, and block the second level. I've seen it happen. They just haven't got it done.

 

We traded McKinnie, so consider that addressed. 

 

 

Also, we have been drafting guys that fit the scheme. Gino, KO, Jensen, and Wagner are all perfect for the ZBS.

[BALTIMOREFLACCO]

Come on d!

[BALTIMOREFLACCO]

Defense stepping up big time

[BALTIMOREFLACCO]

Pound the rock baby!

[BALTIMOREFLACCO]

Glad to see pitta playing a lot of downs

[H8R]

Different from seeing what is? I'm from Tyrod's area here in VA and I have been watching and following this kid since his H.S. days brah! Perhaps that means nothing to you or others on this board but it does to me! As a Virginia Tech fan as well, I know the caliber of player that he is. I won't site all of the records that he has smashed at VT as a QB. No need cause they speak for themselves! Now, that doesn't always translate over to the pros...I get that! But who is to say what Tyrod won't be when his role on the team has been considerably reduced? All of the constant Troy Smith comparisons when Tyrod's name is mentioned on these boards are useless and pointless. If anything; they prove that QB's with similar skill sets as these two men; if they go to Baltimore....they will be reduced to "gimmick" roles and waste away! Smh! I have stated in the past and will continue to do so; Tyrod's agent need to get him the hell away from the Baltimore Ravens quick, fast and in a hurry to find a better situation for him to advance his career as a NFL QB cause the Ravens are not the answer!

Go Ravens!!

#Mili

TurdRod Taylor is a gimmick QB in the NFL, "brah"

[Dr. Kelley]

you said you have been a psl since the team moved here. why in the world would anyone continually buy tickets for a team that sucks and never wins anything? that's why its not a compliment . until flacco got here this team was garbage wow just wow

Ha this team was garbage before flacco? Is this serious? I guess super bowls are routinely won by garbage teams. I guess garbage teams have record setting defenses or get top playoff seedings like in 06. Just... wow.

[Bltravens]

Different from seeing what is?  I'm from Tyrod's area here in VA and I have been watching and following this kid since his H.S. days brah!  Perhaps that means nothing to you or others on this board but it does to me!  As a Virginia Tech fan as well, I know the caliber of player that he is.  I won't site all of the records that he has smashed at VT as a QB.  No need cause they speak for themselves!  Now, that doesn't always translate over to the pros...I get that!  But who is to say what Tyrod won't be when his role on the team has been considerably reduced?  All of the constant Troy Smith comparisons when Tyrod's name is mentioned on these boards are useless and pointless.  If anything; they prove that QB's with similar skill sets as these two men; if they go to Baltimore....they will be reduced to "gimmick" roles and waste away!  Smh!  I have stated in the past and will continue to do so; Tyrod's agent need to get him the hell away from the Baltimore Ravens quick, fast and in a hurry to find a better situation for him to advance his career as a NFL QB cause the Ravens are not the answer!

 

Go Ravens!!

 

#Mili

Troy Smith is garbage man.  He plays in the CFL now, in my areas of viewing, he's even not good up here where the whole league is filled with guys who were never even touched by NFL teams for a cup of coffee.  Troy Smith has nothing to waste away and because of that the comparison is completely valid.

 

If anything I don't understand why we take these guys as backup QBs.  They can't throw at the NFL level.  May as well get a guy you can actually develop to be a pocket passer if crap hits the fan.  Not some dude you have to throw read option plays in for.

[RedFire]

Not a single one.

Lol, so apparently you can't have a lead blocker in the ZBS. Someone go tell Kubiak, Shanahan, BB, Harbaugh, and everyone on the planet that uses the ZBS that they can't use a lead blocker on zone plays. We literally used Leach as a lead blocker on OUR zone plays too. This is really elementary.

I honestly think we need a new section of this board called "Football 101" where we have educational topics about schemes and whatnot.

Leach goes through a gap and blocks a zone then the RB cuts.

Leach ain't guiding the RB all the way down the field into the end zone. In a zone, the RB always cuts off the FB once through the gap and is a one on one situation. Where in the zone does a FB make the read while the RB hand is on the FB all the way up field clearing the way? I can pull up videos with leach going in a gap and blocking a zone while foster cuts....not Leach clearing a path to the end zone.

[RedFire]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zz6wQsvbXc

 

the Texans with Leach. Leach went through the gap and then blocked a zone.....he didn't lead block down the field into the endzone. Foster went through the gap and made a cut into the space created by the zone. 

[cookiedood]

There are going to be many opinions throughout the coming year as to why the Ravens failed to make the playoffs, and I am sure that most will be valid. But when you look at every play of every game, the answer to the question comes down to just four words. " Offensive Line ", " Offensive Coordinator " , end of story. Now we must wait to see if they fix both.

[K-Dog]

There are going to be many opinions throughout the coming year as to why the Ravens failed to make the playoffs, and I am sure that most will be valid. But when you look at every play of every game, the answer to the question comes down to just four words. " Offensive Line ", " Offensive Coordinator " , end of story. Now we must wait to see if they fix both.

Tough to argue.

[redravenfan]

KO and Gino, yes, they looked bad. Yanda was okay. 

 

Oher, best linemen at the beginning of the year? Nope! Bye bye credibility.

 

 

I'm just starting to buy in to Castillo's scheme. I looked at some clips of what he did in Philly and what the Texans do, and we should be very able to execute the scheme. If you ask me, everyone has it down except Oher and Shipley. Even Gino has it down now. Yanda has adjusted to it and is back in his dominant form. Monroe got it right away.

 

 

 

The problem with this is that our players ARE capable of playing in a ZBS. I've seen them all make the right blocks in this scheme. They ARE capable of it. They DO fit the scheme. They all, except Shipley, are agile, powerful linemen who can move laterally, get movement, and block the second level. I've seen it happen. They just haven't got it done.

 

We traded McKinnie, so consider that addressed. 

 

 

Also, we have been drafting guys that fit the scheme. Gino, KO, Jensen, and Wagner are all perfect for the ZBS.

if we were capable of doing it why did we finish 8 and 8/ today they still used it. so now we get another offseason dedicated to it and ten another season  pissed away because  "it's still not installed ". anything that takes years and years and years  is not worth it no one wants to watch a team lose period.if we were capable of executing it we would not be sitting here watching other teams in the playoffs.

[runamuk]

if we were capable of doing it why did we finish 8 and 8/ today they still used it. so now we get another offseason dedicated to it and ten another season  pissed away because  "it's still not installed ". anything that takes years and years and years  is not worth it no one wants to watch a team lose period.if we were capable of executing it we would not be sitting here watching other teams in the playoffs.

we won't be "urinating" the season away. barring injury it should be functioning by next year with a full offseason of studying and getting rid of some players and replacing with more athletic options. I understand being upset . but we just won the superbowl relax next season we are right back in it .Joe ray rice etc all will be fine. it stings but the fun part will start with the draft new young players etc etc. take it down a notch

[Jokerraven]

I'm just trying to learn more too but there is a lot of misinformation out there. I'm going to want a lot of info on how Jensen and Wagner develop this offseason. If we could insert one of them successfully into the ZBS scheme instead of having to waste a high draft pick, that would be great.

I actually found a fantastic article on the steelers forums that explained the zbs in detail . I watched video of the Texans and colts when manning was there qb.  OHer and Shipley are our weak links. I watched and compared and it seems like Oher, Shipley and on occasion gino blocked the wrong defender. but your correct it is starting to work I noticed it today when we played and gino didn't do too bad but Shipley had a bad go of it. so are we looking at another season til it gels cause obviously we will lose Shipley, oher , maybe gino? I'm still dying to know where/how Jensen fits here...