Fire________, Cut________ Rant, Patriots version

[mmcclend]

When your team is a threat to put up 350-400 yards through the air you can run at will because the defense will have only 6 in the box.  Im guessing that was our plan but our passing game is the furthest thing from potent.

[rondubs]

oh, hope we jump off the Joe bandwagon. i see alot about how bad the team is and how great Joe is. Thats Crazy. Many times joe's teammates make him look great. At least they did so last year. Joe is a great player but it seems crazy when you guys are blaming Torrey Smith and others as if joe is doing everything right. Joe has made some great heroic plays at the end of some of our games but lets remember he also has lots of INTS that were His fault and many of times his receivers made great catches. Joe has made mistakes for the first 3 quarters in many of our games. The offense starts with him. What great QB do you know in the NFL that has Flacco like numbers this year JUST BECAUSE he doesnt have the same players? Even Tom Brady has better numbers and you dont even know half of the receivers he threw to until we played them and got whipped last week. Stop blaming everyone else and put the blame where it should be. Its FLACCO and others AND Flacco is the player that has the most affect on our team especially while it rebuilds in some areas. Peyton Wins everywhere he goes. Drew Brees, Rodgers, and Brady always win no matter what personnel they have. They make the players better. Obviously if Bolden plays better in San Fran then it may not be a problem of just our players ALONE. Its everyone and more so the QB because great QB's win no matter what. This league is controlled by the QB position so if we are losing, look at QB first. Plain and simple...Its certainly not Torrey Smith's fault. He makes plays and hes a compliment yet shines at times also. We know the he isnt Megatron but hes a very good receiver that avgs nearly 20yrds a catch every year.

[flynismo]

oh, hope we jump off the Joe bandwagon. i see alot about how bad the team is and how great Joe is. Thats Crazy. Many times joe's teammates make him look great. At least they did so last year. Joe is a great player but it seems crazy when you guys are blaming Torrey Smith and others as if joe is doing everything right. Joe has made some great heroic plays at the end of some of our games but lets remember he also has lots of INTS that were His fault and many of times his receivers made great catches. Joe has made mistakes for the first 3 quarters in many of our games. The offense starts with him. What great QB do you know in the NFL that has Flacco like numbers this year JUST BECAUSE he doesnt have the same players? Even Tom Brady has better numbers and you dont even know half of the receivers he threw to until we played them and got whipped last week. Stop blaming everyone else and put the blame where it should be. Its FLACCO and others AND Flacco is the player that has the most affect on our team especially while it rebuilds in some areas. Peyton Wins everywhere he goes. Drew Brees, Rodgers, and Brady always win no matter what personnel they have. They make the players better. Obviously if Bolden plays better in San Fran then it may not be a problem of just our players ALONE. Its everyone and more so the QB because great QB's win no matter what. This league is controlled by the QB position so if we are losing, look at QB first. Plain and simple...Its certainly not Torrey Smith's fault. He makes plays and hes a compliment yet shines at times also. We know the he isnt Megatron but hes a very good receiver that avgs nearly 20yrds a catch every year.

Joe's teammates make him look great?

I knew this would be an instant classic the second I saw "Bolden" being mentioned

[Florida Ravens Fan]

Joe's teammates make him look great?
I knew this would be an instant classic the second I saw "Bolden" being mentioned

Haha easy on him Fly. Hes just another member of the FHC

[Moderator 3]

Holy walls of text on this page. Ouch!

[HoldingCall]

   I think the ravens receivers are talented enough.Smith, Jones, Brown, Doss and Thompson  have all made nice plays but none of them are consistent(since Jones is a veteran I guess his case Is different). The reason why most of them are not consistent enough is due to poor play calling  at times and of course they can blame them selves  but theres no way the wide receiver coach shouldn't take blame as well.

 

   The ravens are famous for having a good defense to the point they could probably sign a mediocre defensive player and make him look beyond mediocre due to right coaching and the right scheme but when was the last time they were able to do the same for a offensive player? The ravens literally made  Boldin look average for the past three years when he was here  but now that he is with the 49ers the guy is  putting up 1,000 + receiving yards again and to me that saids a lot. Torrey Smith has had a good year stat wise  and he has improved as a receiver but  I think its fair to say he isn't as good or  shown his true potentials because of poor play calling.

 

If the Ravens do decide to draft or sign a very good wideout im sure It will help but I wont expect it  to make the Ravens offense different as a whole especially if the offensive coaching staff doesn't change and gets smarter. I think its weird that Thompson isn't seeing much playing time especially since the coaches had so much high praise for him even Caldwell went on to say he was a good route runner.

 

I agree with this!

[wayne]

oh, hope we jump off the Joe bandwagon. i see alot about how bad the team is and how great Joe is. Thats Crazy. Many times joe's teammates make him look great. At least they did so last year. Joe is a great player but it seems crazy when you guys are blaming Torrey Smith and others as if joe is doing everything right. Joe has made some great heroic plays at the end of some of our games but lets remember he also has lots of INTS that were His fault and many of times his receivers made great catches. Joe has made mistakes for the first 3 quarters in many of our games. The offense starts with him. What great QB do you know in the NFL that has Flacco like numbers this year JUST BECAUSE he doesnt have the same players? Even Tom Brady has better numbers and you dont even know half of the receivers he threw to until we played them and got whipped last week. Stop blaming everyone else and put the blame where it should be. Its FLACCO and others AND Flacco is the player that has the most affect on our team especially while it rebuilds in some areas. Peyton Wins everywhere he goes. Drew Brees, Rodgers, and Brady always win no matter what personnel they have. They make the players better. Obviously if Bolden plays better in San Fran then it may not be a problem of just our players ALONE. Its everyone and more so the QB because great QB's win no matter what. This league is controlled by the QB position so if we are losing, look at QB first. Plain and simple...Its certainly not Torrey Smith's fault. He makes plays and hes a compliment yet shines at times also. We know the he isnt Megatron but hes a very good receiver that avgs nearly 20yrds a catch every year.

No, that's blasphemy. By saying this you are taking the sacpegoats away from Flacco so you can't say this.

[The Raven]

No, that's blasphemy. By saying this you are taking the sacpegoats away from Flacco so you can't say this.

 

Nope, wrong again...

[Militant X 1]

oh, hope we jump off the Joe bandwagon. i see alot about how bad the team is and how great Joe is. Thats Crazy. Many times joe's teammates make him look great. At least they did so last year. Joe is a great player but it seems crazy when you guys are blaming Torrey Smith and others as if joe is doing everything right. Joe has made some great heroic plays at the end of some of our games but lets remember he also has lots of INTS that were His fault and many of times his receivers made great catches. Joe has made mistakes for the first 3 quarters in many of our games. The offense starts with him. What great QB do you know in the NFL that has Flacco like numbers this year JUST BECAUSE he doesnt have the same players? Even Tom Brady has better numbers and you dont even know half of the receivers he threw to until we played them and got whipped last week. Stop blaming everyone else and put the blame where it should be. Its FLACCO and others AND Flacco is the player that has the most affect on our team especially while it rebuilds in some areas. Peyton Wins everywhere he goes. Drew Brees, Rodgers, and Brady always win no matter what personnel they have. They make the players better. Obviously if Bolden plays better in San Fran then it may not be a problem of just our players ALONE. Its everyone and more so the QB because great QB's win no matter what. This league is controlled by the QB position so if we are losing, look at QB first. Plain and simple...Its certainly not Torrey Smith's fault. He makes plays and hes a compliment yet shines at times also. We know the he isnt Megatron but hes a very good receiver that avgs nearly 20yrds a catch every year.

I'm confused.  Which one is it?  Does Joe's teammates make him look "great" or is he a "great" player?

 

#Mili

[flynismo]

No, that's blasphemy. By saying this you are taking the sacpegoats away from Flacco so you can't say this.

Aren't you one of the guys who complains "team sport" when we brag about Flacco being the winningest QB ever? So it's funny that you think we should blame the QB when we lose.

Can't wait to hear you backtrack out of that one..

[flynismo]

the Ravens problem are not with just the receivers. Torrey is a speedster and a very capable #1 but excellent #2. None of the other receivers have any consistency but can play in the NFL. The issue IS with the coaching and especially the OC Cam Cameron oooops im sorry Jim Caldwell. In the past our team won with its STAR players. If you noticed this year, Ray Rice was not as much a part of the game plan this year. The Ravens put its success in Joe Flaccos hands and I hope that they learned from that experience. Our team should always be based on a BALANCE of Joe AND Ray. Not one or the other. Our team changed its strategy with all of the designed shotguns for Joe to see the field better which hurts the run game's success. Can you imagine Adian Pererson being happy running from a draw or pistol formation on nearly all of his touches? With no fullback? Just straight forward with no misdirection or challenges for the defense? I bet we on this site could line up and stop the Ravens run game or not be hurt by it. And what About Ray on screens or MORE dump passes etc? Hey Diddle Diddle? Well the Ravens decided that it was best to go in another direction and hand the game over to Joe but sorry Joe is not Payton or Drew Brees. He is a strong competitor with heart but if you notice, he never puts up number like the big guns like Rodgers even. He is a complimentary piece. The Ravens should have never gone to the pass happy look of other teams. They should have stuck to their identity. Thats how they made the PLAYOFFS every year by staying balanced. Having good pass AND run plays in the playbook. This year they abandoned the run after the new scheme of Castillos was falling. Even Mckinney said that was the biggest issue in the run game with the OL trying to adjust to the scheme versus just blocking plus the center was also trying to figure out the protection and blocking assignments. I think they should have kept working on that to improve because they have the players to win. Also, I hate to say it but they put too much emphasis on Pitta as a replacement to Bolden. Pitta has not show that he can be a probowler but is another complimentary piece. They should not have traded Bolden who just had a 1000 yard season with San Fran. If they couldnt keep Bolden then they should have picked up a possesion guy to replace him. A mason type. Big or small but someone Joe could depend on. Hell id have given a first rounder for Josh Gordon. Would have been a huge risk but heck Gordon and Smith AND Pitta AND Rice/Pierce?? That makes Joe look alot smaller and smalle is better for Joe. Hes good with Great players. All positions included (including the OL). Well it would have been nice but ill be the first again to say it....the Ravens had better address the OC position this off season if it wants to win while is star players are still able to run and compete with the best.

Have you even been watching the games? If you have been, you would have seen how the team forces the run game down our throats in order to maintain balance, even though we have no run game to speak of.

[mmcclend]

Have you even been watching the games? If you have been, you would have seen how the team forces the run game down our throats in order to maintain balance, even though we have no run game to speak of.

yupp.... For Example, the New England game.  Everybody says Brady didnt kill us but those of us who actually know football will understand that he didnt have to because of the balance provided by that run game.  Thats what a great QB does, dominates when he as to, game manages when he has to.  People are going to bash me but its the truth.

[5aiah]

Have you even been watching the games? If you have been, you would have seen how the team forces the run game down our throats in order to maintain balance, even though we have no run game to speak of.

Still have to maintain the threat of running. The offense isn't good enough to make it work in the pass game otherwise.

[T3hRaven]

Holy walls of text on this page. Ouch!

I felt the same way. Paragraphs are our friends.

[jazz1988]

It really is. People keep talking about other receiving corps and how they are helped by play calling and ours isn't but they continue to overestimate our talent in that department. The biggest plays for Alshon are ones where the talent delivers more than the play call helped. Like that amazing throw by McCown where he put it in a place where only Alshon could get it and then he made the insane spectacular catch in traffic to make it happen. Thats stuff Alshon is doing on a regular basis, using his size and natural ability to make plays happen when given a chance. Marlon Brown could be that guy and Streeter was who ravens fans wanted to be that guy but we don't actually have one yet. People talk of our play calling not being on par with offenses like the patriots and how those receivers get open so much but they fail to realize that's talent. The patriots look for extremely talented route runners or guys with insane potential in that area in every position(WR,TE, and HB). We just haven't reached the talent level yet needed to make this system work. 

I don't think we overestimate our talent  (atleast not me) but more like  understand that   the talent our team has can be much better if they were used in a way that suits their strength.  I don't see how it makes sense  for  a offensive coordinator  to see his receiver  struggle against press man coverage but still continue to call plays that doesn't minimize  the success rate of such a scheme. I don't remember Alshon Jeffrey beating our cornerbacks in tight coverage but I do remember his offensive coordinator calling creative plays to get him open because none of there wideouts were beating our cornerbacks physically on a consistent bases. 

  

  You say our team" hasn't reached the talent level yet to make this system work " well what makes you think that they ever will? Theres no gurantee that The Ravens will be able to draft  the  next  Aj Green or Alshon Jeffery because the draft and even free agency is  a major gamble anything can happen. The Ravens offense is really built for physical receivers  which is mainly  run by the Air Corydell Philosophy which can be good but  considering that the Ravens don't have consistent physical receivers the west coast offense would be much better  for them. The west coast offense was made to help out receivers that were less physically gifted or overall receivers that aren't able to make those contest catches by outmuscling  the cornerback for the ball.

 

 

The Patriots receivers like Edelman wouldn't  fit in our offense or better yet he wouldn't be as good of a receiver in our offense because we don't call plays that suit his strength. The Ravens offense has been  running the Air Corydell system for 6 years now and there are plays in the play book which can help suit or receivers strength but our offensive coordinator fails to use them often. I think it's time for our offense to move on to a new system because none of our players fit the system not even Ray Rice (Flacco the only one whom fits).  Overall the ravens just have bunch of receiving weapons that fit a west coast offense but for some reason our coaches don't see that .

for more info on the air corydell go here also hopefully you get better understanding on what it is and why it doesn't fit our players.

[wayne]

Aren't you one of the guys who complains "team sport" when we brag about Flacco being the winningest QB ever? So it's funny that you think we should blame the QB when we lose.

Can't wait to hear you backtrack out of that one..

That's how it goes, I didn't make the rules. Any team in the league that lose a game with the exception of  terrible play on anyone else end and the blame will fall on the QB. The QB is the general of the team and the ball touches his hand 99.9% of the time unless it's a direct snap or something and no other player on the field besides the center touches the ball that much. It just makes sense for the QB to get majority of the blame when the offense is not clicking.

[flynismo]

Still have to maintain the threat of running. The offense isn't good enough to make it work in the pass game otherwise.

No doubt. Not knocking the decision to stick with the run game at all.

[flynismo]

That's how it goes, I didn't make the rules. Any team in the league that lose a game with the exception of terrible play on anyone else end and the blame will fall on the QB. The QB is the general of the team and the ball touches his hand 99.9% of the time unless it's a direct snap or something and no other player on the field besides the center touches the ball that much. It just makes sense for the QB to get majority of the blame when the offense is not clicking.

I love how you dodged my question. Aren't you one of the guys who tries to say "team sport" when we point out Flaccos won loss record?

[Militant X 1]

That's how it goes, I didn't make the rules. Any team in the league that lose a game with the exception of  terrible play on anyone else end and the blame will fall on the QB. The QB is the general of the team and the ball touches his hand 99.9% of the time unless it's a direct snap or something and no other player on the field besides the center touches the ball that much. It just makes sense for the QB to get majority of the blame when the offense is not clicking.

 

That's how I view it as well!  Not only that...but...Flacco is the "decision-maker" with the ball and the "distributor" of the ball every snap and every play!  And because of that....the majority of the blame will go his way when things offensively go awry.

 

#Mili

[5aiah]

I don't think we overestimate our talent  (atleast not me) but more like  understand that   the talent our team has can be much better if they were used in a way that suits their strength.  I don't see how it makes sense  for  a offensive coordinator  to see his receiver  struggle against press man coverage but still continue to call plays that doesn't minimize  the success rate of such a scheme. I don't remember Alshon Jeffrey beating our cornerbacks in tight coverage but I do remember his offensive coordinator calling creative plays to get him open because none of there wideouts were beating our cornerbacks physically on a consistent bases. 

  

  You say our team" hasn't reached the talent level yet to make this system work " well what makes you think that they ever will? Theres no gurantee that The Ravens will be able to draft  the  next  Aj Green or Alshon Jeffery because the draft and even free agency is  a major gamble anything can happen. The Ravens offense is really built for physical receivers  which is mainly  run by the Air Corydell Philosophy which can be good but  considering that the Ravens don't have consistent physical receivers the west coast offense would be much better  for them. The west coast offense was made to help out receivers that were less physically gifted or overall receivers that aren't able to make those contest catches by outmuscling  the cornerback for the ball.

 

 

The Patriots receivers like Edelman wouldn't  fit in our offense or better yet he wouldn't be as good of a receiver in our offense because we don't call plays that suit his strength. The Ravens offense has been  running the Air Corydell system for 6 years now and there are plays in the play book which can help suit or receivers strength but our offensive coordinator fails to use them often. I think it's time for our offense to move on to a new system because none of our players fit the system not even Ray Rice (Flacco the only one whom fits).  Overall the ravens just have bunch of receiving weapons that fit a west coast offense but for some reason our coaches don't see that .

for more info on the air corydell go here also hopefully you get better understanding on what it is and why it doesn't fit our players.

1. I see Ravens fans overestimate our talent on offense over and over. The receivers are already used in ways that gears toward their strengths and in ways to hide their weaknesses. Doss and Marlon are used in the slot because they can't beat the press, just for example. Alshon Jeffery is about beating defenders when the ball is in the air not necessarily at the line of scrimmage so yeah their coordinator will try to find ways to get him an easier release just like we do our guys. Its obvious that there is a disconnect between what many think the talent level is and reality.

 

2. We only need one more consistent piece in the receiving corps and that is a route runner/possession receiver. We are already developing one rookie and its possible that we finally get a natural route runner in the draft with how deep it is at receiver. We don't need to draft a AJ Green we just need another specialist but instead of big play/scoring ability he needs to be able to move the chains. West Coast Offense would be a disaster for this team because its built on precise route running and timing combined with ultra high awareness and accuracy. It wouldn't fit Flacco or our current receiving corps. 

 

3. Edelman can fit in any offense and you would see the Ravens call similar routes to the ones in NE that we can't use here because we lack route technicians. I know almost all of the football systems very well and I would advise you to take your own advice and actually learn about the ones you speak of because you have it all backwards. 

 

Overall the goal of the Coryell offense is to have at least two downfield, fast wide receivers who adjust to the deep pass very well, combined with a sturdy pocket quarterback with a strong arm. The Coryell offense uses three key weapons. The first is a strong inside running game, the second is its ability to strike deep with two or more receivers on any play, and the third is to not only use those two attack in cooperation with each other, but to include a great deal of mid-range passing to a TE, WR, or back.

[The Raven]

Aren't you one of the guys who complains "team sport" when we brag about Flacco being the winningest QB ever? So it's funny that you think we should blame the QB when we lose.

Can't wait to hear you backtrack out of that one..

 

Lmao!

[jazz1988]

1. I see Ravens fans overestimate our talent on offense over and over. The receivers are already used in ways that gears toward their strengths and in ways to hide their weaknesses. Doss and Marlon are used in the slot because they can't beat the press, just for example. Alshon Jeffery is about beating defenders when the ball is in the air not necessarily at the line of scrimmage so yeah their coordinator will try to find ways to get him an easier release just like we do our guys. Its obvious that there is a disconnect between what many think the talent level is and reality.

 

2. We only need one more consistent piece in the receiving corps and that is a route runner/possession receiver. We are already developing one rookie and its possible that we finally get a natural route runner in the draft with how deep it is at receiver. We don't need to draft a AJ Green we just need another specialist but instead of big play/scoring ability he needs to be able to move the chains. West Coast Offense would be a disaster for this team because its built on precise route running and timing combined with ultra high awareness and accuracy. It wouldn't fit Flacco or our current receiving corps. 

 

3. Edelman can fit in any offense and you would see the Ravens call similar routes to the ones in NE that we can't use here because we lack route technicians. I know almost all of the football systems very well and I would advise you to take your own advice and actually learn about the ones you speak of because you have it all backwards. 

 

Overall the goal of the Coryell offense is to have at least two downfield, fast wide receivers who adjust to the deep pass very well, combined with a sturdy pocket quarterback with a strong arm. The Coryell offense uses three key weapons. The first is a strong inside running game, the second is its ability to strike deep with two or more receivers on any play, and the third is to not only use those two attack in cooperation with each other, but to include a great deal of mid-range passing to a TE, WR, or back.

 

The whole game  against the patriots the announcer was saying  the ravens receivers are struggling against press man coverage and when Jim Caldwell finally put Marlon Brown in the slot to preform a motion route (which you may see New England offense use quite a lot  ) the announcer said there we go  Jim Caldwell finally calling a route to help out his receiver.  I think Joe Flacco style of play is quite similar to Big Ben and if Ben can preform well  in a west coast offense then why can't Flacco ? especially when we all know Flacco excels in a spread offense when he passing quicker throws and etc.

 

Nfl Flims Greg Cosell even mention how our passing game is really vanilla here http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=10164823 One key thing you left out when it comes to the Air Corydell is that it requires a solid offensive line in pass protection since it requires receiver to go deep often( we don't have a solid pass protecting offensive line).  We don't have strong inside run game this year and Ray Rice has made plays running inside but he's at his best when ask to run off pitch or counters(something we don't use often at all) . A great route runner would be good for the ravens offense but that still doesn't take away the fact that our passing attack lacks creativity .

 

I believe when we was playing against the lions Aaron Rodgers him self even questioned the ravens play calling . If you think Caldwell is consistently  using his receivers in  away that suit  their strength well there nothing I can really say about that but believe what you want.

[Dfence4champs2052]

Find a real OC and an actual Backup QB.

seriously!!! Close thread! If we had a decent playcaller with an inkling of sense we'd have been in the game.

[5aiah]

The whole game  against the patriots the announcer was saying  the ravens receivers are struggling against press man coverage and when Jim Caldwell finally put Marlon Brown in the slot to preform a motion route (which you may see New England offense use quite a lot  ) the announcer said there we go  Jim Caldwell finally calling a route to help out his receiver.  I think Joe Flacco style of play is quite similar to Big Ben and if Ben can preform well  in a west coast offense then why can't Flacco ? especially when we all know Flacco excels in a spread offense when he passing quicker throws and etc.

 

Nfl Flims Greg Cosell even mention how our passing game is really vanilla here http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=10164823 One key thing you left out when it comes to the Air Corydell is that it requires a solid offensive line in pass protection since it requires receiver to go deep often( we don't have a solid pass protecting offensive line).  We don't have strong inside run game this year and Ray Rice has made plays running inside but he's at his best when ask to run off pitch or counters(something we don't use often at all) . A great route runner would be good for the ravens offense but that still doesn't take away the fact that our passing attack lacks creativity .

 

I believe when we was playing against the lions Aaron Rodgers him self even questioned the ravens play calling . If you think Caldwell is consistently  using his receivers in  away that suit  their strength well there nothing I can really say about that but believe what you want.

1.Again, Marlon Brown/Stokley were often starting from the slot to help against press man. That is nothing new. We perform motion routes as well but again you fail to realize the difference is that they have slick route runners and we do not. They are using creativity to maximize their strengths we are using it to hide our weaknesses. We just don't have the talent yet. Joe's style of play is not similar to Big Ben, so you are off there too. I already explained why our receivers and QB are not suited for west coast offense. It is built for the exact opposite. You are grossly overestimating our talent in that area. All QBs can look better in a spread offense, thats why its a mainstay in college and we have pro offenses here. The problem is you have to have the talent to really make it work through the air. Your statement doesn't just refer to Flacco but any QB in the world. The problem is mistakes and weaknesses can also be magnified in a spread offense as well once the defense settles in against the pass.

 

2. Again that is a problem of talent which we will be rectifying soon so there is no need to drop the whole system just for one year. I don't think Rice has made many plays at all period because he is slowed down by injuries and his running style overall recently. A great route runner would be what the doctor ordered because he can work alongside Pitta and Rice in the possession game in the middle of the field while the other two take the top off. That's what Boldin did and thats what won us a championship. The difference was Boldin did it with pure strength, guts, and hands instead of technical route running. Either one is fine with me but there needs to be another receiver who works that middle of the field to move the chains. Marlon isn't there yet. We are running Air Coryell without the necessary talent but we plan to rectify that soon.

 

3. I think the Ravens coaching staff(not just Caldwell) likes to push their players to fit into their scheme and aren't just looking at the now but the future as well. I know that at times they try to accommodate the strengths of their players but early in the season they push them in a way that confronts their weaknesses and later allow them to fall back on what they do best. I also KNOW that you lack in-depth knowledge(not that I possess it all) of the systems you speak of and have gotten things backwards. I also now know for sure that you overestimate our talent on offense,don't fully understand the receivers or Joe's strengths and weaknesses, and aren't aware of how coaching staffs and their systems work. This isn't really on Caldwell, but believe what you want. 

[jazz1988]

1.Again, Marlon Brown/Stokley were often starting from the slot to help against press man. That is nothing new. We perform motion routes as well but again you fail to realize the difference is that they have slick route runners and we do not. They are using creativity to maximize their strengths we are using it to hide our weaknesses. We just don't have the talent yet. Joe's style of play is not similar to Big Ben, so you are off there too. I already explained why our receivers and QB are not suited for west coast offense. It is built for the exact opposite. You are grossly overestimating our talent in that area. All QBs can look better in a spread offense, thats why its a mainstay in college and we have pro offenses here. The problem is you have to have the talent to really make it work through the air. Your statement doesn't just refer to Flacco but any QB in the world. The problem is mistakes and weaknesses can also be magnified in a spread offense as well once the defense settles in against the pass.

 

2. Again that is a problem of talent which we will be rectifying soon so there is no need to drop the whole system just for one year. I don't think Rice has made many plays at all period because he is slowed down by injuries and his running style overall recently. A great route runner would be what the doctor ordered because he can work alongside Pitta and Rice in the possession game in the middle of the field while the other two take the top off. That's what Boldin did and thats what won us a championship. The difference was Boldin did it with pure strength, guts, and hands instead of technical route running. Either one is fine with me but there needs to be another receiver who works that middle of the field to move the chains. Marlon isn't there yet. We are running Air Coryell without the necessary talent but we plan to rectify that soon.

 

3. I think the Ravens coaching staff(not just Caldwell) likes to push their players to fit into their scheme and aren't just looking at the now but the future as well. I know that at times they try to accommodate the strengths of their players but early in the season they push them in a way that confronts their weaknesses and later allow them to fall back on what they do best. I also KNOW that you lack in-depth knowledge(not that I possess it all) of the systems you speak of and have gotten things backwards. I also now know for sure that you overestimate our talent on offense,don't fully understand the receivers or Joe's strengths and weaknesses, and aren't aware of how coaching staffs and their systems work. This isn't really on Caldwell, but believe what you want. 

 

The Ravens passing attack is vanilla and  predictable  if you can't see that then wow . You say we need a great route runner who is this great route runner? There will be none this off season in which we can afford and the last time I check the best route runner in the draft is Marqise  Lee whom isn't  for sure going to be drafted by us. Using Marlon Brown in the slot suits his strength but thats not  where im gettin at  and it's way more than that.I'm not the one saying The Ravens need to be like the patriots offense and I'm no where near trying  to compare the patriots receivers to our receivers but overall stating the fact that there offensive coordinator helps out there receivers to get open a lot more then ours(matter of fact every coordinator seems to)

 

Greg Cossell literally came out and said The Ravens passing offense is a contrast to all nfl passing games;  they are a  intermediate  to down field passing team which consist of a lot of risker throws, low percentage throws, and the offense will not have stability to it .I don't see how that  equals to being a quarterback  friendly  system especially when you consider everything I have just mentioned.

 

 Jim Caldwells has Ray Rice and Bernard Pierce running  inside runs and have seen them get tackle for a loss more times than not, don't you think common sense will tell you to try something different by now? Flacco is literally getting  sacked because his receivers aren't open fast enough because they running deep routes most of the time but for some reason quicker throws aren't being called enough to help fight against such problems. 

 

Overall you right its not the system because there are offensive offensive coordinator in the nfl whom use the same system but they use a modified version of it or should I say they are calling better plays. Flacco style of play has been compared to Big Ben every since his college days and I don't know what you see from Flacco to not think he can't fit into  west coast offense but it is what it is . The idea that our receivers may not fit into such  a west  offense doesn't make sense to me  but all I want to see is the Ravens offense become more creative with their passing attack and it doesn't take another Brandon Stokley or Derrick Mason to do so.

[T3hRaven]

The Ravens passing attack is vanilla and  predictable  if you can't see that then wow . You say we need a great route runner who is this great route runner? There will be none this off season in which we can afford and the last time I check the best route runner in the draft is Marqise  Lee whom isn't  for sure going to be drafted by us. Using Marlon Brown in the slot suits his strength but thats not  where im gettin at  and it's way more than that.I'm not the one saying The Ravens need to be like the patriots offense and I'm no where near trying  to compare the patriots receivers to our receivers but overall stating the fact that there offensive coordinator helps out there receivers to get open a lot more then ours(matter of fact every coordinator seems to)

 

Greg Cossell literally came out and said The Ravens passing offense is a contrast to all nfl passing games;  they are a  intermediate  to down field passing team which consist of a lot of risker throws, low percentage throws, and the offense will not have stability to it .I don't see how that  equals to being a quarterback  friendly  system especially when you consider everything I have just mentioned.

 

 Jim Caldwells has Ray Rice and Bernard Pierce running  inside runs and have seen them get tackle for a loss more times than not, don't you think common sense will tell you to try something different by now? Flacco is literally getting  sacked because his receivers aren't open fast enough because they running deep routes most of the time but for some reason quicker throws aren't being called enough to help fight against such problems. 

 

Overall you right its not the system because there are offensive offensive coordinator in the nfl whom use the same system but they use a modified version of it or should I say they are calling better plays. Flacco style of play has been compared to Big Ben every since his college days and I don't know what you see from Flacco to not think he can't fit into  west coast offense but it is what it is . The idea that our receivers may not fit into such  a west  offense doesn't make sense to me  but all I want to see is the Ravens offense become more creative with their passing attack and it doesn't take another Brandon Stokley or Derrick Mason to do so.

 

Which is why I think we need to completely change the system.  There are plenty of QBs with great arms whose OCs don't feel the need to send guys only on deep to intermediate routes.  We keep putting our players in bad positions, extending from the fact that our run game sucks and we've been putting Flacco in 3rd and long for years now, which are very hard plays to complete.  There are definitely things that can be done schematically to make him look better than he is.

[5aiah]

Overall you right its not the system because there are offensive offensive coordinator in the nfl whom use the same system but they use a modified version of it or should I say they are calling better plays. Flacco style of play has been compared to Big Ben every since his college days and I don't know what you see from Flacco to not think he can't fit into  west coast offense but it is what it is . The idea that our receivers may not fit into such  a west  offense doesn't make sense to me  but all I want to see is the Ravens offense become more creative with their passing attack and it doesn't take another Brandon Stokley or Derrick Mason to do so.

1.Big Ben is a completely unique QB who makes his best plays outside of the pocket and improvising on the run or after eluding pass rushers. Flacco isn't much like him at all aside from them both being clutch but if we are talking skill set and other intangibles they are pretty different. Sometimes you have to look at things yourself and not take the word of what other people say because in this instance they are wrong. I don't even get how you can watch Big Ben and Flacco go head to head twice a year and say that. 

 

2. Flacco doesn't fit the profile of a west coast QB and a number of his weaknesses are why he wouldn't be a natural fit even if he could thrive in it with the right weapons. That would mean paying the right weapons though and you can't have a ton of money invested in every part of the team because of a salary cap.

 

3. The fact that you don't understand why our receiving corps may not fit into the WCO is the exact reason I mentioned you should actually learn more about it yourself. The WCO was created for the exact opposite of everything we have at QB and WR. 

 

4. With route running technicians you can call a better variety of plays. When we call those type of plays(that rely on good route running)now, you often see our receivers being blanketed. Torrey Smith being blanketed by Talib on a crossing route despite being much much faster leaving no where for Flacco to go. That's what happens in man coverage when you can't run routes as well as the other guy can cover. With a guy like Stokley or Mason, the Air Coryell Offense becomes balanced. This system is fine it just needs a bit more talent in certain spots like the offensive line and at receiver. Once the run game is back on track and we get the last piece at receiver this system is the same one that won us a superbowl. 

[jazz1988]

1.Big Ben is a completely unique QB who makes his best plays outside of the pocket and improvising on the run or after eluding pass rushers. Flacco isn't much like him at all aside from them both being clutch but if we are talking skill set and other intangibles they are pretty different. Sometimes you have to look at things yourself and not take the word of what other people say because in this instance they are wrong. I don't even get how you can watch Big Ben and Flacco go head to head twice a year and say that. 

 

2. Flacco doesn't fit the profile of a west coast QB and a number of his weaknesses are why he wouldn't be a natural fit even if he could thrive in it with the right weapons. That would mean paying the right weapons though and you can't have a ton of money invested in every part of the team because of a salary cap.

 

3. The fact that you don't understand why our receiving corps may not fit into the WCO is the exact reason I mentioned you should actually learn more about it yourself. The WCO was created for the exact opposite of everything we have at QB and WR. 

 

4. With route running technicians you can call a better variety of plays. When we call those type of plays(that rely on good route running)now, you often see our receivers being blanketed. Torrey Smith being blanketed by Talib on a crossing route despite being much much faster leaving no where for Flacco to go. That's what happens in man coverage when you can't run routes as well as the other guy can cover. With a guy like Stokley or Mason, the Air Coryell Offense becomes balanced. This system is fine it just needs a bit more talent in certain spots like the offensive line and at receiver. Once the run game is back on track and we get the last piece at receiver this system is the same one that won us a superbowl. 

 

I stand on what I said  and I believe Flacco game is similar to Big Ben nothing will change that and best believe my opinion is not base off what some one else said.   Overall we just have to agree to disagree and I don't remember ever seeing Torrey Smith run  a crossing route  on sunday.

[TXRavensFan]

I already explained why our receivers and QB are not suited for west coast offense. It is built for the exact opposite.

To hear Bill Walsh talk about it, he built the Qest Coast Offense to compensate for Cincinatti's horrible running game, not because of any deficiencies in the passing game. The short, high-percentage throws were a replacement for runs.

I also don't think there is enough evidence to suggest neither Flacco nor the receivers could be successful in such a system (not that I'm advocating a switch), simply because there is not enough real-time game data to support it. As noted, they've been running an Air Coryell system since Joe got here, and WCO routes are not part of this system. Given that he's been successful with shorter and intermediate routes in the past, I don't think it's too much of a stretch.

In general, given that Joe is a very streaky passer, it would tend to make sense to call more short, high percentage passes to get him in a rhythm early. Now, if it's the coaches who aren't scripting these plays in the game plan, or Joe's wanting to push the ball down the field at the expense of the short passing game, I can't say, but I think that using the short game might help to get the offense on track early.

[5aiah]

I stand on what I said  and I believe Flacco game is similar to Big Ben nothing will change that and best believe my opinion is not base off what some one else said.   Overall we just have to agree to disagree and I don't remember ever seeing Torrey Smith run  a crossing route  on sunday.

Yep.

 

To hear Bill Walsh talk about it, he built the Qest Coast Offense to compensate for Cincinatti's horrible running game, not because of any deficiencies in the passing game. The short, high-percentage throws were a replacement for runs.

I also don't think there is enough evidence to suggest neither Flacco nor the receivers could be successful in such a system (not that I'm advocating a switch), simply because there is not enough real-time game data to support it. As noted, they've been running an Air Coryell system since Joe got here, and WCO routes are not part of this system. Given that he's been successful with shorter and intermediate routes in the past, I don't think it's too much of a stretch.

In general, given that Joe is a very streaky passer, it would tend to make sense to call more short, high percentage passes to get him in a rhythm early. Now, if it's the coaches who aren't scripting these plays in the game plan, or Joe's wanting to push the ball down the field at the expense of the short passing game, I can't say, but I think that using the short game might help to get the offense on track early.

1.Then we disagree on the strengths and weaknesses of Flacco and the receiving corps. There is plenty of evidence over the years on Flacco, Torrey, Jacoby, and others.

 

2. I'm very familiar with the West Coast Offense and its origins and he created it for a number of reasons including lack of throwing power and physical talent, but also to create the benefits of the run game as well as utilize the high intelligence and awareness of his QB and skill players. It is the ultimate example of a coach building a scheme around his players. The Air Coryell and the WCO are exact opposites also in that one needs a lot of physical talent and the latter placed more emphasis on the mental aspects. He, his coaching staff, and the original QB all stated these reasons for why one of the greatest minds in football revolutionized the sport with this concept. To say that it was mainly about Cincy's horrible run game isn't true at all and is another reason why we should be actually learning more before posting.