Fire________, Cut________ Rant, Patriots version

[H8R]

While I'm not disagreeing about coaching, I don't know how you coach up some of the mistakes we've been seeing. Dropped balls, mistimed leaps, alligator arms and just poor execution seem to be faults to be put on the individual.

I think it's the fine detail of body placement, route precision , and KNOWING what Joe wants them to do. Just doesn't seem like these guys are detail oriented .

[Tank 92]

I think it's the fine detail of body placement, route precision , and KNOWING what Joe wants them to do. Just doesn't seem like these guys are detail oriented .

 

 

Agreed, and a rapport with Joe being most important. Seems like it's developing with Jacoby and Marlon, but what in the hell has happened to Torrey?

[flynismo]

Flacco says the brace didn't matter. The game showed otherwise and while he had been turning over the ball a lot recently his passes I mean nearly all of them looked terrible. He wouldn't really run and he fell when nobody touched him but yes his knee DIDN"T bother him. Right

Well, here's my thing...

We can all see Flacco was talking outta his posterior when he said he was fine.
And it is easy for me to say this sitting from my keyboard -- but the few times Flacco has been significantly hurt on the field, he simply plays like crap. And that's understandable. But if you are not willing to sacrifice everything, don't go out on the field. Tell the coaching staff you need a friggin day off and live to fight another day, rather than try to be Superman.

That said, I guess I'm hypocritical, because I probably would have done and said exactly what Flacco did if that were me. Competitiveness is a blessing and a curse.

[jazz1988]

I think it's the fine detail of body placement, route precision , and KNOWING what Joe wants them to do. Just doesn't seem like these guys are detail oriented .

 

Joe hasn't had wideout who could do all that perfectly  since Derrick Mason .

[H8R]

Joe hasn't had wideout who could do all that perfectly since Derrick Mason .

And when he had it, it couldn't be stopped... even though EVERYONE knows the curl route was coming. lol

[flynismo]

And when he had it, it couldn't be stopped... even though EVERYONE knows the curl route was coming. lol

The curl, the out, both unstoppable even when defenders sat on the route. Even the 9 routes were pretty darn effective, impressive considering Mason's lack of size or speed

[NaveSenrag]

I wish we had a OC like Gruden or McDaniels or McCarthy... heck, maybe even Kubiak.

Gruden? Every Bengals fan I've ever met despises Gruden.

 

Anyway, we definitely need a change at OC. On Sunday, the Patriots were calling out whether we were going to run or pass at the LOS all game long and there was nothing we could do about it. That isn't even a vanilla offense, it's just flavorless.

[jazz1988]

And when he had it, it couldn't be stopped... even though EVERYONE knows the curl route was coming. lol

 

lol yeah he was the best when it came to the curl route  but he was such a good route runner as well. He may not have been the biggest  but he would fight for the ball, always fight to get open,  always knew where Joe Flacco needed him and more . I wish he was still around just 10 years younger  or atleast our wide receiver coach .

[H8R]

Gruden? Every Bengals fan I've ever met despises Gruden.

Anyway, we definitely need a change at OC. On Sunday, the Patriots were calling out whether we were going to run or pass at the LOS all game long and there was nothing we could do about it. That isn't even a vanilla offense, it's just flavorless.

Then Bengals fans are idiots... Gruden is a heck of a OC.

[ratedr]

Jay Gruden is a great OC, he has to work hard to scheme for the physically limited Dalton. Bengals fans should be worshipping him.

[redrum52]

Well, here's my thing...

We can all see Flacco was talking outta his posterior when he said he was fine.
And it is easy for me to say this sitting from my keyboard -- but the few times Flacco has been significantly hurt on the field, he simply plays like crap. And that's understandable. But if you are not willing to sacrifice everything, don't go out on the field. Tell the coaching staff you need a Freakin day off and live to fight another day, rather than try to be Superman.

That said, I guess I'm hypocritical, because I probably would have done and said exactly what Flacco did if that were me. Competitiveness is a blessing and a curse.

I'll stop stirring the pot now cause you seem to be one of more semi logical posters. I said play Taylor when it was obvious the injury affected him and wss attacked like I've been saying start Tyrod since Flaccos first pick. My only point was no point in risking further injury and it wasn't going to help putting a gimp on the field. Its cool to be competitive and I understand the qb never wanting to come off the field but understand when you're doing more harm than good. It didn't look very likely a comeback was being made early in the 4th, sit him and focus on next week.

[rafahash]

Please fire Jim Caldwell and Juan Castillo

[PerpetuallyBored74]

Hostler played cornerback at a Division II college.

 

Mason played wide receiver in the NFL for 15 years where he was known for his smooth technique and route running--which helped him catch nearly 950 passes for over 12,000 yards, earning him 2 Pro Bowls and making him a borderline HoF'er.

 

At least on paper, Mason looks to be far superior to Hostler as a WR coach.

 

The other thing about Hostler is that his one season as OC with the 49ers, their offense completely tanked.

And I could have sworn reading in an article somewhere that this year, he now had some input in putting together our offensive gameplans.

 

Also, are we still teaching our WRs to bend their routes?

Could that be part of the reason our WRs don't get open right away usually, but only do so after they've gone 20 yards downfield?

[H8R]

I mean, I hear Joe constantly say "Cross his face". The WRs can't seem to beat the DBs in the way that it's needs to be. The Pats were mostly playing straight up, and the WRs couldn't do much at all. The Oline have up some sacks, but that going to happen with no open targets. Now, there were some plays where Flacco flat-out missed but as a hole, the WRs were a detriment to their own success .

[5aiah]

I mean, I hear Joe constantly say "Cross his face". The WRs can't seem to beat the DBs in the way that it's needs to be. The Pats were mostly playing straight up, and the WRs couldn't do much at all. The Oline have up some sacks, but that going to happen with no open targets. Now, there were some plays where Flacco flat-out missed but as a hole, the WRs were a detriment to their own success .

None of our receivers are exceptional route runners so why would they be open unless they are finding holes in zones or beating their man with speed? This offense wasn't really built to run this way and it shows. The only particularly good route runners we've had this year are Stokley and Pitta, but both of them can be handled by getting physical with them. You can't blame the receivers when you ask them do do something they aren't adept at, especially when you have specialized receivers like ours. People ask why Joe doesn't put up big numbers, its because his receiving corps is built to compliment a powerful, fear inducing run game. The best route runner on the team is the TE, that says enough.

[PoeDinkum]

None of our receivers are exceptional route runners so why would they be open unless they are finding holes in zones or beating their man with speed? This offense wasn't really built to run this way and it shows. The only particularly good route runners we've had this year are Stokley and Pitta, but both of them can be handled by getting physical with them. You can't blame the receivers when you ask them do do something they aren't adept at, especially when you have specialized receivers like ours. People ask why Joe doesn't put up big numbers, its because his receiving corps is built to compliment a powerful, fear inducing run game. The best route runner on the team is the TE, that says enough.

I agree with this. It was utilize the threat or efficacy of what we could or would do on the ground and when the opposing D is expecting us to cram it down their throat we'd open it up deep. Looked like on Sunday the PATS were willing to give us all we wanted in the short to medium passing game, especially to the backs and Joe pressed either to A) show that he wasn't hurting or B) to force the TDs that have been missing from the O to make the PATS one dimensional. In any event obviously we have not played to the strengths of our personnel nor have we maintained what made us successful these last few years.

[jazz1988]

Gruden? Every Bengals fan I've ever met despises Gruden.

 

Anyway, we definitely need a change at OC. On Sunday, the Patriots were calling out whether we were going to run or pass at the LOS all game long and there was nothing we could do about it. That isn't even a vanilla offense, it's just flavorless.

 

I don't know much about Gruden but I would love to have Hue Jackson as our offensive coordinator .

[Militant X 1]

A giant issue is we don't have a seasoned vet that has mastered his craft. Torrey and Jacoby are the oldest WRs we have and neither are very polished. They're explosive, but that's about the extent their attributes that are highly rated.

Maybe Stokely was that guy, but it's hard to take dvice from a guy in the training room. I honestly think that Marlons future is just as bright as Torrey.

Marlon will finish with more then 500 yards and 6 TDs . That's a heck of a compliment for an undrafted guy coming off of an injury, especially in this offense. I just feel he's more of a natural WR. Once he refines his game, he should be an automatic choice for Joe.

I agree and was just thinking about this last night actually.  Especially, when it comes to the receivers.  Boldin is gone and he was definitely that veteran presence that Torrey, Jacoby, Brown and Doss could have greatly benefitted from this season.

 

#Mili

[Stephenjr]

I would kill myself if he went to the redskins. No player should go to that awful POS franchise.

Well he wants to stay in Maryland, and there dumb enough to pay him#1 wr money.

[rmw10]

I agree and was just thinking about this last night actually.  Especially, when it comes to the receivers.  Boldin is gone and he was definitely that veteran presence that Torrey, Jacoby, Brown and Doss could have greatly benefitted from this season.

 

#Mili

 

We had Stokley this year which I think helped out a little bit at least.  Looking at the free agent market this upcoming offseason, I don't see too many seasoned vets that I would consider a good sign.  I think we have to stick with the youth movement.  While you can't rely on them to be teachers, there are a couple of receivers in this draft that have a very refined game.

[Militant X 1]

We had Stokley this year which I think helped out a little bit at least.  Looking at the free agent market this upcoming offseason, I don't see too many seasoned vets that I would consider a good sign.  I think we have to stick with the youth movement.  While you can't rely on them to be teachers, there are a couple of receivers in this draft that have a very refined game.

I'm one that has always been for the youth movement of the Ravens on both sides of the ball.  I have always said let the young lions loose and to put them in the game so that they can gain that live game action experience that you can't get from being on the pine!  And yet, I also understand the value of having a solid veteran presence at these skilled positions that can teach, motivate and mentor these young pups and aid them in perfecting their craft.

 

#Mili

[rmw10]

I'm one that has always been for the youth movement of the Ravens on both sides of the ball.  I have always said let the young lions loose and to put them in the game so that they can gain that live game action experience that you can't get from being on the pine!  And yet, I also understand the value of having a solid veteran presence at these skilled positions that can teach, motivate and mentor these young pups and aid them in perfecting their craft.

 

#Mili

 

Yeah I think it's the time to let the rookies play, but have some quality veteran depth to teach the young guys how it's done.  I'm alright with growing pains from a rookie.  One of the only positions that I think could use a quality vet as a starter is at center.  Otherwise, let the young guys play and gain some experience.  We've always been way too conservative in that regard, in my opinion.

[The Mom Gene]

I'm one that has always been for the youth movement of the Ravens on both sides of the ball.  I have always said let the young lions loose and to put them in the game so that they can gain that live game action experience that you can't get from being on the pine!  And yet, I also understand the value of having a solid veteran presence at these skilled positions that can teach, motivate and mentor these young pups and aid them in perfecting their craft.

 

#Mili

Mili:

 

I would agree with you... I also don't think that the losing of Lewis and Reed was even the beginning of our problem this year.  We have leadership...  Maybe not the blatant, boistrous, and loud leadership that the Ravens have been known for...  Many times, you heard that the chemistry was much better this year than last...  The problem with the young guns theory is, lots of other fans don't have the patience to wait for them to learn and develop into the professionals that they can be.  They expect the rookie players to walk onto a field and become a pro in game one of season one.....  Take a look at Matt Elam.  Eight games into the season, only played seven, and people were ready to cut him because they didn't think he was making the plays that "they" thought he was capable of.  There is definitely a time of development.

 

Yes, we have to have the veterans in order to "teach".  Sometimes it's them coaching up...  moreso than the coaches do too. 

[The Mom Gene]

Yeah I think it's the time to let the rookies play, but have some quality veteran depth to teach the young guys how it's done.  I'm alright with growing pains from a rookie.  One of the only positions that I think could use a quality vet as a starter is at center.  Otherwise, let the young guys play and gain some experience.  We've always been way too conservative in that regard, in my opinion.

LOL.....  Seems we agree.

[Militant X 1]

Mili:

 

I would agree with you... I also don't think that the losing of Lewis and Reed was even the beginning of our problem this year.  We have leadership...  Maybe not the blatant, boistrous, and loud leadership that the Ravens have been known for...  Many times, you heard that the chemistry was much better this year than last...  The problem with the young guns theory is, lots of other fans don't have the patience to wait for them to learn and develop into the professionals that they can be.  They expect the rookie players to walk onto a field and become a pro in game one of season one.....  Take a look at Matt Elam.  Eight games into the season, only played seven, and people were ready to cut him because they didn't think he was making the plays that "they" thought he was capable of.  There is definitely a time of development.

 

Yes, we have to have the veterans in order to "teach".  Sometimes it's them coaching up...  moreso than the coaches do too. 

I agree somewhat Gene.  However, I have seen other teams use their rookies out there on the field and allow them to go through those growing pains and now to me they have become good players in a short period of time.  Cases and point for me to name a few are: A.J. Green 2 yrs. in the league, Antonio Brown 3yrs in., Julio Jones 2 yrs. in,  Demaryius Thomas 3 yrs. in, Eric Decker 3 yrs. in, Rob Gronkowski 3 yrs. in, Dez Bryant 3 yrs. in, J.J. Watt 2 yrs. in and that beast of a MLB with the Panthers; Luke Kuechly 1yr in. 

 

Now, I often see cats in here say that our wide receivers in comparison as "weapons" for a QB; are not as good or are not the same caliber as the receivers or players mentioned above.  And yet, they've been in the league just as long or longer.  Torrey Smith 2yrs in, Jacoby Jones 6 yrs. in, Tandon Doss 2 yrs. in, Pitta 3 yrs. in, Brown is our rookie but doing well cause he's seeing some playing time.  And then there is Bernard Pierce who is 2yrs in.  I clearly understand that draft position plays a major role in the caliber and type of player a team picks up.  And yet, it still  appears to me that the Ravens are one of those teams that likes to keep their young drafted pups on the bench and that keeps their growth and development stunted while the other cats mentioned above are excelling in their positions to me.

 

#Mili

[The Mom Gene]

We need some kind of coaching and development at the WR position.... for a lot of these guys...  Torrey can't catch a cold lately...  and maybe it has to do with coverage..  but you know AJGreen is covered... and you know they try to cover Demaryius Thomas too....  Why does it seem that our guys drop more balls?  Is it the pass, is it the route, or is it the coverage?

[jazz1988]

We need some kind of coaching and development at the WR position.... for a lot of these guys...  Torrey can't catch a cold lately...  and maybe it has to do with coverage..  but you know AJGreen is covered... and you know they try to cover Demaryius Thomas too....  Why does it seem that our guys drop more balls?  Is it the pass, is it the route, or is it the coverage?

 

The Ravens receivers tend to struggle against  press man coverage and  they seem to  struggle against any cornerback whoms using press man coverage.  I believe such problems have to be the fault of the receiver coach  because in the end  he has to teach  his receivers on how to beat press man coverage also of course the offensive coordinator has to call better plays  to help out his receivers as well. 

 

     I don't think any of the ravens receivers are great route runners  and they can be physical /aggressive but they are quite inconsistent at it.I believe they get over powered too easily against corner backs in press man coverage which can lead to drop passes or lack of separation. Overall the ravens receivers  inconsistency  can be the fault of their own but the offensive coordinator and wide receiver coach play a part in to it as well.

[SuggsBarber]

It was a 60 yard pass... I don't think Torrey was the first read in his progression. It was under thrown, but by the time Joe went to him for it to be in stride it would need to be a 75 yarder. Torrey needs to learn to make those tough catches, he dropped another one on the sideline too.. also, he seems to fall to his knees at the first sign of contact.

Joe throws the ball on time Torrey makes that catch and scores.

[redlobster]

We need some kind of coaching and development at the WR position.... for a lot of these guys... Torrey can't catch a cold lately... and maybe it has to do with coverage.. but you know AJGreen is covered... and you know they try to cover Demaryius Thomas too.... Why does it seem that our guys drop more balls? Is it the pass, is it the route, or is it the coverage?

Nobody on Baltimore compares to green or d Thomas , both are arguably top 5 wr's.

[Militant X 1]

Nobody on Baltimore compares to green or d Thomas , both are arguably top 5 wr's.

Why is that?  That's the question being presented here.  Is it due to their lack of playing time, talent or coaching?  Cause Torrey, Jacoby, Marlon and Doss seem talented to me.  It makes me wonder.

 

#Mili