Why the hate on Dean Pees?

[The Raven]

Blaming Pees for the 4th quarter meltdowns is ridiculous. Almost all of our defensive meltdowns have been caused by a sheer inability to tackle. Simple as that.

[Guest RBates]

If you are talking about the long run to score a TD in the 4th quarter, you do know we actually rushed 5 on that play right? Going back to what others have said about fundamentals, we actually blitz and had our blitzer run free to the RB. Brown blitzed but never got a hand on Toby.

 

There is nothing wrong with the play calling or rotation imo. He's getting the absolute best out of Ngata, Cody, Jones and Tyson on the inside with the way he rotates these guys. Actually he does a great job rotating all the guys up front. He's doing a really good job of getting the most out of Brown, Bynes and McClain opposite Smith. What more would you like to see him do with the talent and what type of rotations do you want?

 

I'm not sure why he gets so much hate. I think he's doing a really good job as our DC. Is he the best? No but he's really good and a really good coach. I think we allow the 4th quarters and close games cloud our judgement of just how good this defense plays. Do we have our issues, yes but who doesn't. Since that week 1 game were we just wasn't together as a defense, the Ravens have allowed just 17ppg and has only given up 26 points in one game. That's good enough to win any game imo.

I get what you are saying. For me though, its the play calling in the middle of the field that has me second guessing him.  Whatever pressure he shows, is the pressure he usually brings.  His defensive philosophy seems to be, the bend but don't break approach.  I hate that Philosophy. It will get you beat against teams that can score the football.  He needs to get more exotic in the middle of the field and wait until we are in the Red zone to scale it back.  The lack of turnovers we are generating is a direct result of the stale play calling.  

 

If  you are going to gamble you better do it in the middle or the opponents side of the field. The players are improving overall but a lot of that seems to be the positions coaches. Every corner we have seems to be getting better.  Every D- lineman minus CODY seems to be improving and the linebacker core as well.  We just need to be feared on defense again and all will be well.

[ThePurpleWall]

didn't you know according to some people Pees makes the tackles etc

[Ravensfan23]

I get what you are saying. For me though, its the play calling in the middle of the field that has me second guessing him.  Whatever pressure he shows, is the pressure he usually brings.  His defensive philosophy seems to be, the bend but don't break approach.  I hate that Philosophy. It will get you beat against teams that can score the football.  He needs to get more exotic in the middle of the field and wait until we are in the Red zone to scale it back.  The lack of turnovers we are generating is a direct result of the stale play calling.  

 

If  you are going to gamble you better do it in the middle or the opponents side of the field. The players are improving overall but a lot of that seems to be the positions coaches. Every corner we have seems to be getting better.  Every D- lineman minus CODY seems to be improving and the linebacker core as well.  We just need to be feared on defense again and all will be well.

 

I think this feeling sums up a lot of peoples feelings about Pees. He's not bad but he doesn't seem like one of our guys. lol We are used to the organized chaos style and that's cool but there are more then one way to skin a cat. The days of a feared defense are gone man, you can thank the NFL for that. We will never be like we were in the early 2000s, the best we can hope for is 2006 style defense.

 

I keep hearing people say that Pees style will eventually get him beat against teams that can score points but I keep seeing Pees style and coaching stifle offenses that put up big numbers. Go back and look at the playoffs last year, our defense was poor imo but we managed to have a really good game plan for both Brady and Manning. Who scores more then them? We did a good job scheme wise shutting Arod down this year until Webb got caught with his eyes in the backfield. Detroit could barely move the ball after their first two drives and had the offense put up TDs instead of FGs early we might blow them away in that game. I just think much like Flacco, people keep waiting for that other shoe to drop with Pees. We can't possibly keep winning with Flacco not putting up numbers, but we find a way to do it. We can't possibly keep winning with Pees defensive style but we keep doing it. The fact that we are only giving up about 17ppg since week 1 and also have 4th quarter issues tells me that this defense is playing really well.

 

 

As for the position coaches improving players that's what those guys are supposed to do. Those guys coach their individual positions and Pees coordinates it all together with a solid gameplan. I personally don't care for the bend but don't break style either because I was always taught to never give up an inch on defense, so I can see why people don't like Pees. But I also see how well this guy teaches football and he comes up with some really good gameplans to stop the better offenses. I give him much props for allowing Jimmy to follow Calvin after the first quarter. Also, this is a topic for another thread, but I actually think Cody is playing much better this year. He and Tyson are big reasons why Williams isn't playing and Spears was cut. Also his play is allowing Ngata to get rest and the level of play not drop too much.

[gabefergy]

Our defense last season was a bend, but don't break philosophy. We simply didnt have the players to stop teams from moving the ball. Our run defense was poor, and pass-rush struggled for much of the season.

 

This year, our run defense is back to being one of the best in the league and we are 3rd in the NFL in allowing 3rd down conversions. That doesnt sound like bend but dont break to me. Pees had made stopping the run a priority, and the results are obvious.

 

Sure, he could be more creative with the blitzes, and I would like to see more stunts up front, but it's hard to argue with the success.

[SecretAgentMan]

You want to know the problem of a fourth quarter D?

I'll blame Pees under rage and extreme frustration(as a ravens fan I'm used to stout), but the players forget how to tackle/fatigue from our ineffective offense.

Fix the problems on offense, the defense will see the field less. Shortly afterwards, most of these fourth quarter problems should go away

Tackling is just another issue. Elam goes for the flat out hit over an actual tackle(still an improvement over Huff and Reed(at this point) in that regard) but is at times disappointing.

The Patterson TD he gets a pass. That's called crappy weather.

The Gerheart one was pathetic by EVERYONE(Gary Oldman voice).

You ask me, another year with this cast, plus if Ozzie decides to rebuild the offense over the offseason, should make us contenders again.

[RavensIQ13]

I really don't understand it.  I have seen very little wrong with the defensive scheme this year.  Almost all big plays have come from mistakes in execution.  A defensive back failing in 1 on 1 coverage, a player not playing the zone correctly allowing an easy big play, missed tackles.

 

Why are people blaming Pees?  On both of those quick TDs in the 4th quarter there were multiple players who had chances to make the tackle but simply whiffed.  Not his fault at all.

 

 

Give me a logical explanation why he should be fired.  Not just how the defense is playing,  but something wrong with his scheme/play calling SPECIFICALLY that has happened this season.

 

People that hate on Dean pees are just looking for someone to blame for their lack of football knowledge. These are the same people that want to get rid of Ray Rice and cut Terrell Suggs. You can also spot these people by their pessimistic views on the team and their doom and gloom outlook on the season. The whole point in being a fan is to root for and support our team. Not to pick apart their every flaw and give up on them when their down. Real fans know the truth

[ravensdfan]

People that hate on Dean pees are just looking for someone to blame for their lack of football knowledge. These are the same people that want to get rid of Ray Rice and cut Terrell Suggs. You can also spot these people by their pessimistic views on the team and their doom and gloom outlook on the season. The whole point in being a fan is to root for and support our team. Not to pick apart their every flaw and give up on them when their down. Real fans know the truth

 

Excuse me, but I have football knowledge, I've never called for Rice or Suggs to get cut, and I'm always here arguing with the pessimistic ones.

 

I don't like his style and obviously we have an issue in the 4th quarter when he changes that style from the previous 3 quarters. He goes to a very soft zone in the 4th and it costs us every single time.

 

@SAM The old stand by "they're tired because of the offense" just does not wash because in all those games we had the TOP until the defense collapsed and allowed late 4th quarter drives.

 

I don't hate the guy and i'm not saying he's awful. Like I said, guys who tackle for 3 quarters don't suddenly forget how to do so in the 4th. A lot of it has to do with his playcalling and scheme. Not all of it, but a lot of it.

[Ravensfan23]

Excuse me, but I have football knowledge, I've never called for Rice or Suggs to get cut, and I'm always here arguing with the pessimistic ones.

 

I don't like his style and obviously we have an issue in the 4th quarter when he changes that style from the previous 3 quarters. He goes to a very soft zone in the 4th and it costs us every single time.

 

@SAM The old stand by "they're tired because of the offense" just does not wash because in all those games we had the TOP until the defense collapsed and allowed late 4th quarter drives.

 

I don't hate the guy and i'm not saying he's awful. Like I said, guys who tackle for 3 quarters don't suddenly forget how to do so in the 4th. A lot of it has to do with his playcalling and scheme. Not all of it, but a lot of it.

 

Yes we as a fan base have got to get away from that hate/supporter thing. Everyone that has issue with something is not a hater. But with that said there is a lot of dislike for Pees and often times I don't see valid reason.

 

As for your stance on Pees, I don't agree with you but at the same time it's hard to argue with you if that makes sense. The reason I say this is because I don't think we can pinpoint just one thing that causes our 4th woes. I think it's all of what most of us have said, so within that yes Pees playing soft zone isn't ideal most times, but I don't think a lot of it has to do with his playcalling and scheme as you suggest.

 

You look at each individual game this year and you can point to something different as to why we had issues in the 4th quarter. Most of the times I don't even think there are 4th quarter issues, I just think it's a simple case of eventually NFL players make plays and our games are usually so close that a FG or TD late changes the game.

[RavensIQ13]

I think our 4th quarter troubles this year have come from the fact that teams are changing the way they attack on offense because they have nothing to lose at this point. It's either do or die. So more aggressive passing plays are called and this is one of the Ravens biggest weaknesses. If teams attacked this way early in the game you would see the same result. Our D-line just doesn't provide the rush needed to stop the pass for essentially 4 downs. So when we have a lead, blitzing and playing man coverage often results in that quick strike big play and if the man misses the tackle its nothing but green in front of him and boom now we're behind. We need more people to step up and make plays to end the game. Plain and simple.

[The Raven]

This is one game I'll blame on Pees. Just one. 

 

Why did we barely press those pip squeak WRs? They can't do anything against press, yet we played off-man and zone all day.

[1/28/01]

This is one game I'll blame on Pees. Just one.

Why did we barely press those pip squeak WRs? They can't do anything against press, yet we played off-man and zone all day.

Hahahahahaha. Yelled and screamed for this all game!!!

[The Raven]

Hahahahahaha. Yelled and screamed for this all game!!!

 

Pees really wet the bed on this game plan.

[gabefergy]

I still don't think the D played all that poorly. We got hurt by turnovers and a big PI.

Brady did not have a great game by any stretch.

[RavensIQ13]

Are you guys serious? Our defense held the patriots to 14 points for 3 quarters and most of the 4th quarter. That pass interference call in the first half was bogus. The refs gave them a layup touchdown from on the yard 1 yard line.. That's not our defense's fault. Not much they could do there. But all in all The D held its own tonight. Our offense is the one that laid an egg - big time. And the ending was just a series of flukes, That score didn't reflect our defense's performance.

 

Stop looking for someone to blame. Dean Pees has done an amazing job this year given the hand he was dealt. Its pretty obvious there's something wrong with Sizzle and Dumerville clearly isn't back to full strength yet. If they were able to provide the pass rush that we're accustomed to seeing from them this D would be very potent. So our problem isn't Defense it's our offensive line. That area has really crippled this team and what they're capable of doing. Plus Jim Caldwell isn't dynamic enough to be our offensive coordinator anymore.. We need a coordinator on offense who is more in touch with the way league playing, Caldwell is too predictable and the way he attacks defenses is very generic. If you look around the league a lot of these high scoring offense are run by younger coordinators. And I don't think its a coincidence. The oldschool coaches just seem like theyre still trying to catch up. So my opinion is that we need to be talking more about our offensive coordinator and less about our defensive coordinator.

[The Raven]

I still don't think the D played all that poorly. We got hurt by turnovers and a big PI.

Brady did not have a great game by any stretch.

 

It might as well have been Ryan Mallett in at QB. The Patriots didn't win this game on the arm of Tom Brady. They won it on the shoulders of their linemen, on both sides.

[K-Dog]

It might as well have been Ryan Mallett in at QB. The Patriots didn't win this game on the arm of Tom Brady. They won it on the shoulders of their linemen, on both sides.

Correct.

[SizzleSuggs55]

This is one game I'll blame on Pees. Just one. 

 

Why did we barely press those pip squeak WRs? They can't do anything against press, yet we played off-man and zone all day.

This was driving me nuts. Not even an attempt to jam them at the line. We let them run free on us all day...

[Bltravens]

Are you guys serious? Our defense held the patriots to 14 points for 3 quarters and most of the 4th quarter. That pass interference call in the first half was bogus. The refs gave them a layup touchdown from on the yard 1 yard line.. That's not our defense's fault. Not much they could do there. But all in all The D held its own tonight. Our offense is the one that laid an egg - big time. And the ending was just a series of flukes, That score didn't reflect our defense's performance.

 

Stop looking for someone to blame. Dean Pees has done an amazing job this year given the hand he was dealt. Its pretty obvious there's something wrong with Sizzle and Dumerville clearly isn't back to full strength yet. If they were able to provide the pass rush that we're accustomed to seeing from them this D would be very potent. So our problem isn't Defense it's our offensive line. That area has really crippled this team and what they're capable of doing. Plus Jim Caldwell isn't dynamic enough to be our offensive coordinator anymore.. We need a coordinator on offense who is more in touch with the way league playing, Caldwell is too predictable and the way he attacks defenses is very generic. If you look around the league a lot of these high scoring offense are run by younger coordinators. And I don't think its a coincidence. The oldschool coaches just seem like theyre still trying to catch up. So my opinion is that we need to be talking more about our offensive coordinator and less about our defensive coordinator.

Hand he was dealt?  This defense is Freakin loaded with talent.  Outside of 2006 I can't think of a more talented front 7 we've had since switching to a 34 defense.

He needs to do a better job scheming with the front 4 pass rush.  Its like he's not even listening to Spagnuolo (sp?).  He was a hit or miss DC, but he knows how to create pressure with a front 4.  

[gabefergy]

It might as well have been Ryan Mallett in at QB. The Patriots didn't win this game on the arm of Tom Brady. They won it on the shoulders of their linemen, on both sides.

I'm not sure why you think it was a bad game plan then? If you tell me Brady is going to throw for 172 yards and 1 TD, I would tell you our defense had a heck of a game plan and executed it to perfection. You are right though, we got beat up front. The only issue I had with Pees was the personnel we had at times.

[The Raven]

I'm not sure why you think it was a bad game plan then? If you tell me Brady is going to throw for 172 yards and 1 TD, I would tell you our defense had a heck of a game plan and executed it to perfection. You are right though, we got beat up front. The only issue I had with Pees was the personnel we had at times.

 

Because the few passes Brady made went for key third downs conversions.

[RavensIQ13]

Hand he was dealt?  This defense is Freakin loaded with talent.  Outside of 2006 I can't think of a more talented front 7 we've had since switching to a 34 defense.

He needs to do a better job scheming with the front 4 pass rush.  Its like he's not even listening to Spagnuolo (sp?).  He was a hit or miss DC, but he knows how to create pressure with a front 4.  

He lost 7 starters from Last years defense..  3/4ths of the secondary left in free agency, our defensive leader retired, and one of our best run stoppers signed with a different team. Ladarius Webb was still raw coming off his knee surgery and wasn't playing at a high level for the first half of the year and Haloti Ngata has been playing injured. He took some old free agent vets, a handful of career backups, and some 1st year rookie defenders and turned this team into a top 10 defense. Most teams start the season with an established group of players, Dean Pees started the season with a bunch of question marks and an empty starting roster. He deserves more credit then he's given.

[rafahash]

That's why

[Neil]

The defence kept points off the board, which was great.  Until Harbaugh waved the white flag by sending Tucker onto the field on the 4th and 5, the defence had played very well.

[Dr. Kelley]

I will now be accepting apologies to all who flamed me for calling dean pees out.

[Dr. Kelley]

I will now be accepting apologies from all who flamed me for calling dean pees out.

[Dr. Kelley]

He lost 7 starters from Last years defense.. 3/4ths of the secondary left in free agency, our defensive leader retired, and one of our best run stoppers signed with a different team. Ladarius Webb was still raw coming off his knee surgery and wasn't playing at a high level for the first half of the year and Haloti Ngata has been playing injured. He took some old free agent vets, a handful of career backups, and some 1st year rookie defenders and turned this team into a top 10 defense. Most teams start the season with an established group of players, Dean Pees started the season with a bunch of question marks and an empty starting roster. He deserves more credit then he's given.

Actually, he deserves to be fired. First, his excuse was the injuries. Then, it was loss of starters. Good coaches overcome obstacles. He is obviously just a bad defensive coordinator. He was never good and never will be.

[Dr. Kelley]

The defence kept points off the board, which was great. Until Harbaugh waved the white flag by sending Tucker onto the field on the 4th and 5, the defence had played very well.

So being down three scores is the defense keeping points off the board?

[1/28/01]

So being down three scores is the defense keeping points off the board?

They played poorly at the beginning, but the O lost this one. With our pathetic offense and turnovers, holding Brady to 20 by the 4th quarter was a defensive win. Offense sucks!

[gabefergy]

I will now be accepting apologies from all who flamed me for calling dean pees out.

You don't get any.