Why the hate on Dean Pees?

[Tank 92]

I would say just look at the results. Maybe excellent is a strong word, but the defense is so much better than last season I consider it excellent in comparison.

 

It is among the league leaders in pretty much every statistical measure. It's not perfect and there have probably been some coaching mistakes along with mistakes by the players, but overall Pees has done a great job. 

 

You said a good defense gets off the field in the 4th quarter. This is true, and there have been games where this hasnt happened. GB and Cleveland come to mind, even though the D dominated GB most of the game. There have also been many games where the D has bailed out the offense and gotten them the ball back. They are still 8th best defense in scoring even after letting up 49 points in week 1. That is saying something. If you take out week 1 ( I know it's not fair to do that but still) they are letting up only 17.6 points per game. I would say that is affording the offense the chance to win every single week.

 

 

I agree with pretty much everything you are saying here except the characterization that the D is affording the team the chance to win when they fail to perform in the 4th quarter or at the end of the game. Let's say the O does score more in the early stages of those games. Does that mean that the opposition may play the game differently and possibly score more as well?  I would say that's a strong possibility.

 

You can't rationalize a "what if" scenario saying the D performed well for most of the game and that afforded the O the chance to win. What you can say is that if they fail towards the end of the game and the score is close, they didn't do their job and give their team a chance to win.

[5aiah]

If Dean Pees was more aggressive(I think he's done well being balanced) as some Ravens fans would like then they would still bash him when we gave up more big plays. Elam is a guy at risk back there when you are talking about aggressive cover 1. Right now he's done a good job keeping plays in front of him and keeping his head above water but asking more could lead to huge screw ups. As of right now I think we are on the right track given the tightrope we are walking  on to get to the playoffs. No need to make the offense's job any harder at the moment. But as to the question why,that's simple, people will complain about anything. That and as stated earlier in the thread by others, there are a lot of inaccuracies thrown around about Pees and his gameplan.

[omar586]

It's the offense fault, they take a nap for 3 quarters, when your defense plays lightsout for 3 quarters your offense should b melting the clock n 4th qt

[gabefergy]

I agree on all counts with your assessment of Pees and I contribute big plays that had been given to players' execution entirely. Vikings game, to be fair, is a special case - it's near impossible to get into position to tackle on a field like that - but there have been lapses in previous games, too.

 

What nobody mentioned yet in this thread is the fact that Ray and Ed are not there. This defense misses their reads and quick adjustments big time and although overall improvement to last season is really noticeable, there are no players at the moment who come close to what Ray and Ed were able to see in a split second. I think execution would be way better with their help.

I think you make a very good point. Ray and Ed, while declining phsyically, were like coaches on the field. They were able to diagnose the offense and get the rest of the defense in position and I do think that has been missing at times. There have certainly been muiltiple communication breakdowns in the secondary as well.

[gabefergy]

I agree with pretty much everything you are saying here except the characterization that the D is affording the team the chance to win when they fail to perform in the 4th quarter or at the end of the game. Let's say the O does score more in the early stages of those games. Does that mean that the opposition may play the game differently and possibly score more as well?  I would say that's a strong possibility.

 

You can't rationalize a "what if" scenario saying the D performed well for most of the game and that afforded the O the chance to win. What you can say is that if they fail towards the end of the game and the score is close, they didn't do their job and give their team a chance to win.

I didn't rationalize anything, I just stated that the D is generally holding the opposition to a low scoring total, and keeping the team in the game. There have clearly been lapses at the end of some of these games, but how many times has the offense gone 3 and out and the D has gotten them the ball right back. It cuts both ways. My point was that generally speaking when the D is keeping the opponent under 20 points a game, the offense should be able to win it.

[PolishRifle]

It's the offense fault, they take a nap for 3 quarters, when your defense plays lightsout for 3 quarters your offense should b melting the clock n 4th qt

 

That problems goes much deeper. We didn't have a problem moving the ball on offense against the Steelers 2 weeks ago. Where was the defense in the 4th quarter then?

 

I don't even think it's the fault of the system. Our defense doesn't have that swagger, they had under Chuck. All those missed half-hearted tackles were a real disgrace.

[Tank 92]

I didn't rationalize anything, I just stated that the D is generally holding the opposition to a low scoring total, and keeping the team in the game. There have clearly been lapses at the end of some of these games, but how many times has the offense gone 3 and out and the D has gotten them the ball right back. It cuts both ways. My point was that generally speaking when the D is keeping the opponent under 20 points a game, the offense should be able to win it.

 

 

OK, you didn't rationalize, you generalized.

 

My point is how you performed for most of a game(holding to < 20) means squat if you fail at the end. It seems the O has, more often than not, answered the bell at the end of games. The D?  Me thinks not.

[Tank 92]

I think you make a very good point. Ray and Ed, while declining phsyically, were like coaches on the field. They were able to diagnose the offense and get the rest of the defense in position and I do think that has been missing at times. There have certainly been muiltiple communication breakdowns in the secondary as well.

 

 

Right. Losing Ed and Ray definitely was a set back for on field communications, they were consummate "field generals".  But we shouldn't be having communication issues in the secondary in week 15.

[Guest RBates]

We do need to discuss Pees future with the team this off season. His defensive play calling is stale. 

[The Raven]

We do need to discuss Pees future with the team this off season. His defensive play calling is stale. 

 

He designed a game plan that handled Megatron and kept him scoreless. He held the Lions to 16 points. We're seventh in scoring defense. This "stale playcalling" complaint is nonsense.

 

Wanna know why it looks stale? Because nobody is shedding blocks. It doesn't even make a difference when he does call a blitz because our highest paid defensive players (Suggs especially) can't do diddly poo.

 

I think his play calling is pretty damn good, and it works when the players make bloody tackles and get pressure.

[Tank 92]

He designed a game plan that handled Megatron and kept him scoreless. He held the Lions to 16 points. We're seventh in scoring defense. This "stale playcalling" complaint is nonsense.

 

Wanna know why it looks stale? Because nobody is shedding blocks. It doesn't even make a difference when he does call a blitz because our highest paid defensive players (Suggs especially) can't do diddly poo.

 

I think his play calling is pretty damn good, and it works when the players make bloody tackles and get pressure.

 

 

 

With the exception of Elam's imitation of a ping pong ball early in the game, we tackled better last week than at any other time in the season.

 

Pees is fine, as long as the players execute.

[jar2260]

I stil think we should pick up Rex when the Jets dump him, he has a great defensive (and aggressive) mind.

[Radinho84]

Football is a TEAM game. The team who plays the best in all three phases of the game for 4 quarters will end up win the game.

You can´t blame the defense for letting the offense down or vice versa.

 

Offense, Defense, Special Teams. If one of those three fails to perform you have a hard time to win a football game.

I think that our defense is better than the one from last season.

I think that our offense (besides the running game) is better than last year.

Our special Teams are great thanks to Jacoby and Tucker.

 

Point is, we win out and are locked for the playoffs for the sixth year in a row. No other Team has done that in the same period of time. Other teams would love to have the problems that we have.

 

We play our best football when it matters most. Let´s see what happens this weekend. Maybe we are already locked after Sunday.

 

Of course our Defense or Offense have had their fair share of melt downs over the year. But if you have a must win situation I would bet on us agsints every team in the nfl!!!

[Guest RBates]

He designed a game plan that handled Megatron and kept him scoreless. He held the Lions to 16 points. We're seventh in scoring defense. This "stale playcalling" complaint is nonsense.

 

Wanna know why it looks stale? Because nobody is shedding blocks. It doesn't even make a difference when he does call a blitz because our highest paid defensive players (Suggs especially) can't do diddly poo.

 

I think his play calling is pretty damn good, and it works when the players make bloody tackles and get pressure.

I still think he can do more with the talent and rotation that he has on defense.  He plays it safe in a lot of situations.  Like rushing three against a garbage Qb like Matt Cassel.  That is what led to the long Toby Gerhart run.  I still think that we can improve on the defensive play calling. 

[Ravens1991]

You guys think that Pees could be a potential HC candidate for some teams? I say this because he has coached under 2 elite coaches in Harbaugh and Billicheck. What he did with our defense last year was impressive with all those injuries. Plus a guy like Bruce Arians and even Harbaugh shows you don't need to be an Xs and Os genius coordinator to be a good coach

[PuRock]

You guys think that Pees could be a potential HC candidate for some teams? I say this because he has coached under 2 elite coaches in Harbaugh and Billicheck. What he did with our defense last year was impressive with all those injuries. Plus a guy like Bruce Arians and even Harbaugh shows you don't need to be an Xs and Os genius coordinator to be a good coach

 

I don't believe anyone will be seeking out Pees as a HC candidate.  Which is rare for this Ravens team.  

 

He would be the second oldest HC (behind Coughlin) with little to no HC experience.  I doubt this is the route that any team would go, especially with the trend towards younger guys.  It could be different if we were producing stellar results.  

 

This isn't a knock on the Pees, but I believe we're married to this guy until we move on.  

[Ravensfan23]

I still think he can do more with the talent and rotation that he has on defense.  He plays it safe in a lot of situations.  Like rushing three against a garbage Qb like Matt Cassel.  That is what led to the long Toby Gerhart run.  I still think that we can improve on the defensive play calling. 

 

If you are talking about the long run to score a TD in the 4th quarter, you do know we actually rushed 5 on that play right? Going back to what others have said about fundamentals, we actually blitz and had our blitzer run free to the RB. Brown blitzed but never got a hand on Toby.

 

There is nothing wrong with the play calling or rotation imo. He's getting the absolute best out of Ngata, Cody, Jones and Tyson on the inside with the way he rotates these guys. Actually he does a great job rotating all the guys up front. He's doing a really good job of getting the most out of Brown, Bynes and McClain opposite Smith. What more would you like to see him do with the talent and what type of rotations do you want?

 

I'm not sure why he gets so much hate. I think he's doing a really good job as our DC. Is he the best? No but he's really good and a really good coach. I think we allow the 4th quarters and close games cloud our judgement of just how good this defense plays. Do we have our issues, yes but who doesn't. Since that week 1 game were we just wasn't together as a defense, the Ravens have allowed just 17ppg and has only given up 26 points in one game. That's good enough to win any game imo.

[Bltravens]

That problems goes much deeper. We didn't have a problem moving the ball on offense against the Steelers 2 weeks ago. Where was the defense in the 4th quarter then?

 

I don't even think it's the fault of the system. Our defense doesn't have that swagger, they had under Chuck. All those missed half-hearted tackles were a real disgrace.

I'll throw a different theory out, its because they have no natural leaders outside the Dline.  Smith is new, so if hes here for awhile it could be him, but outside of that we have guys that are small leaders within the LBs or DBs  but no personality or player that transcends all the positions like Ray or Ed did.  I think it has less to do with swagger and more to do with the lack of a centralized person everyone unequivocally looks to in crisis time. 

[ravensdfan]

This isn't a knock on the Pees, but I believe we're married to this guy until we move on.  

 

That's the most depressing thing I've heard all day.

 

He is too married to the zone, period. It isn't that I think zone coverage should never be part of the game plan, but it is way too much a part of our game plan every single week. The only yards Calvin Johnson made were when we were in zone coverage.

 

Yes, I realize that some of that is execution on the players' part - but personnel wise we are really built more for man to man coverage. We use zone way too much.

 

Furthermore, has the man come up with any kind of creative blitz package at all? We rush 3, we rush 4, sometimes we rush a disguised 3, but nothing, absolutely nothing creative comes out of this man as far as blitzes. We have Doom & Suggs and he is wasting them both.

[The Raven]

That's the most depressing thing I've heard all day.

 

He is too married to the zone, period. It isn't that I think zone coverage should never be part of the game plan, but it is way too much a part of our game plan every single week. The only yards Calvin Johnson made were when we were in zone coverage.

 

Yes, I realize that some of that is execution on the players' part - but personnel wise we are really built more for man to man coverage. We use zone way too much.

 

Furthermore, has the man come up with any kind of creative blitz package at all? We rush 3, we rush 4, sometimes we rush a disguised 3, but nothing, absolutely nothing creative comes out of this man as far as blitzes. We have Doom & Suggs and he is wasting them both.

 

He does actually come up with some good blitzes, but our players are God freaking awful at shedding blocks. I saw him send six once and nobody beat their man. No sense blitzing anymore if nobody can beat a block.

[gabefergy]

We actually saw some interesting wrinkles against Detroit.

Jimmy followed Megatron on both sides if the field. Corey took him in the slot, but its something different that's for sure.

We did play a lot of man, as well as cover 2, cover 3, cover 6.

We played cover 0 on the Deangelo Tyson pick, which was forced due to Pees bringing the house.

[5aiah]

We actually saw some interesting wrinkles against Detroit.

Jimmy followed Megatron on both sides if the field. Corey took him in the slot, but its something different that's for sure.

We did play a lot of man, as well as cover 2, cover 3, cover 6.

We played cover 0 on the Deangelo Tyson pick, which was forced due to Pees bringing the house.

Dean Pees performance in the Lions game was described as "masterful" and was backed up with actual film showing how creative he was in the different looks he threw at Stafford which forced mistakes. Anyone who saw Playbook AFC was treated to a nice inside look at how you stop a QB with an arm and weapons like Stafford's but who isn't at the top of his game mentally.

[Ravensfan23]

We actually saw some interesting wrinkles against Detroit.

Jimmy followed Megatron on both sides if the field. Corey took him in the slot, but its something different that's for sure.

We did play a lot of man, as well as cover 2, cover 3, cover 6.

We played cover 0 on the Deangelo Tyson pick, which was forced due to Pees bringing the house.

 

Dean Pees performance in the Lions game was described as "masterful" and was backed up with actual film showing how creative he was in the different looks he threw at Stafford which forced mistakes. Anyone who saw Playbook AFC was treated to a nice inside look at how you stop a QB with an arm and weapons like Stafford's but who isn't at the top of his game mentally.

 

How can we possibly win with this lack of creativity? People are talking about his lack of creativity, you gotta understand what the model of this defense was supposed to follow. With Suggs, Ngata, Doom, and the combo of Art/Canty you shouldn't have the need to blitz as much as we've done with guys like Rex and Chuck. One of the hardest defenses to move the ball on is a team that can get pressure with a 4 man rush and keep 7 in coverage. This is what this defense was intended to be.

 

When this defense is at it's best the front 4 is getting good pressure while guys like Smith and Brown are allowed to play underneath coverage and the Secondary matches up in either man or zone depending on how you want to play it. Pees actually has some really good blitz packages, the reason we haven't seen many of them this year is because we don't have a true FS and neither one of our SS are particularly good in coverage right now. When you blitz and your Safety play isn't strong you leave your defense vulnerable in the back end. Also Graham and Webb have both had their struggles in man coverage this season, but to help that you play zone.

 

Pees is a really smart coach and he keeps his guys in great position to make plays, then it's on the plays to make those plays. Is he perfect? No but who is. There are times when he may call the wrong coverage in a game, but I've never seen this guy out coached more then once or twice a season.

[ravensdfan]

How can we possibly win with this lack of creativity? People are talking about his lack of creativity, you gotta understand what the model of this defense was supposed to follow. With Suggs, Ngata, Doom, and the combo of Art/Canty you shouldn't have the need to blitz as much as we've done with guys like Rex and Chuck. One of the hardest defenses to move the ball on is a team that can get pressure with a 4 man rush and keep 7 in coverage. This is what this defense was intended to be.

 

When this defense is at it's best the front 4 is getting good pressure while guys like Smith and Brown are allowed to play underneath coverage and the Secondary matches up in either man or zone depending on how you want to play it. Pees actually has some really good blitz packages, the reason we haven't seen many of them this year is because we don't have a true FS and neither one of our SS are particularly good in coverage right now. When you blitz and your Safety play isn't strong you leave your defense vulnerable in the back end. Also Graham and Webb have both had their struggles in man coverage this season, but to help that you play zone.

 

Pees is a really smart coach and he keeps his guys in great position to make plays, then it's on the plays to make those plays. Is he perfect? No but who is. There are times when he may call the wrong coverage in a game, but I've never seen this guy out coached more then once or twice a season.

 

I'm not going to lie, I do just have a certain disdain for zone coverage itself, but I do understand about the need early in the season to use it more often.

 

There are always risks when you blitz, that is true at any time. You have to know your QB competition, his ability for a quick release and if he is easily shaken with pressure. There have been times this season where it was certainly worth the risk and we sent 3 on a key 3rd and long situation.

 

I do believe Pees falls back to way more zone coverage in 4th quarters of games and that is one reason our defense fails late in games. Certainly another factor is execution, I do understand that as well.

 

I don't feel Pees takes risks when they are warranted. His style is too conservative late in games. It was one of the things we all griped about with Cam but for some reason many are alright to tolerate with Pees.

 

Bottom line if the defense is getting it done for 3 quarters of play, why do we often (not always) switch to almost exclusive zone coverage in the 4th quarter and watch our defense become a sieve? That isn't smart coaching IMO.

[gabefergy]

I'm not going to lie, I do just have a certain disdain for zone coverage itself, but I do understand about the need early in the season to use it more often.

There are always risks when you blitz, that is true at any time. You have to know your QB competition, his ability for a quick release and if he is easily shaken with pressure. There have been times this season where it was certainly worth the risk and we sent 3 on a key 3rd and long situation.

I do believe Pees falls back to way more zone coverage in 4th quarters of games and that is one reason our defense fails late in games. Certainly another factor is execution, I do understand that as well.

I don't feel Pees takes risks when they are warranted. His style is too conservative late in games. It was one of the things we all griped about with Cam but for some reason many are alright to tolerate with Pees.

Bottom line if the defense is getting it done for 3 quarters of play, why do we often (not always) switch to almost exclusive zone coverage in the 4th quarter and watch our defense become a sieve? That isn't smart coaching IMO.

A couple reasons for zone defense. First, mixing and changing up coverages is imperative. No team can play just man, or the offense will dial up plays that are meant to beat man coverage. Pick plays, rub routes, etc..

Its important to show different looks in an attempt to confuse. Also Zone coverages have a much lower chance of giving up big plays. When you are up in a game, allowing short completions underneath is much more favorable than big chunk plays. That doesn't mean play prevent, but it is smart to play more zone. The play call will also be dependent on things like down & distance.

[ravensdfan]

A couple reasons for zone defense. First, mixing and changing up coverages is imperative. No team can play just man, or the offense will dial up plays that are meant to beat man coverage. Pick plays, rub routes, etc..

Its important to show different looks in an attempt to confuse. Also Zone coverages have a much lower chance of giving up big plays. When you are up in a game, allowing short completions underneath is much more favorable than big chunk plays. That doesn't mean play prevent, but it is smart to play more zone. The play call will also be dependent on things like down & distance.

 

I'm not saying don't use any zone but obviously Pees 4th quarter decisions are not working for our type defense. You can just look at our defensive production in the 4th quarter versus the other 3 quarters of play this season.

 

I agree that certainly it will depend on down & distance. I've seen us send 3 on 3rd and a million in the 4th quarter this season multiple times, playing zone coverage, and fail to get off the field. Again & again & again. We go into soft zones way too much in the 4th quarter, and it is probably my biggest gripe with Pees because it isn't working, and yet he keeps on doing it.

 

The Lions late game TD was due to his falling back to zone coverage leaving a LB on Calvin Johsnon. Now, Smith is a pretty talented LB but still, really? You dial up something that leaves a LB on Megatron

[Ravensfan23]

I'm not going to lie, I do just have a certain disdain for zone coverage itself, but I do understand about the need early in the season to use it more often.

 

There are always risks when you blitz, that is true at any time. You have to know your QB competition, his ability for a quick release and if he is easily shaken with pressure. There have been times this season where it was certainly worth the risk and we sent 3 on a key 3rd and long situation.

 

I do believe Pees falls back to way more zone coverage in 4th quarters of games and that is one reason our defense fails late in games. Certainly another factor is execution, I do understand that as well.

 

I don't feel Pees takes risks when they are warranted. His style is too conservative late in games. It was one of the things we all griped about with Cam but for some reason many are alright to tolerate with Pees.

 

Bottom line if the defense is getting it done for 3 quarters of play, why do we often (not always) switch to almost exclusive zone coverage in the 4th quarter and watch our defense become a sieve? That isn't smart coaching IMO.

 

I think way too much of the 4th quarter issues are placed on Pees. That comes down to execution and communication. Why are his zone coverages successful in the first 3 quarter but not so much in the 4th? All he can do is call plays that have worked without the course of the game against the offense and hope his players can win.

 

The execution of this defense has been poor far more often then Pees play call. Could he be more creative? Yes but I could make the same argument that Rex could have dialed back at times when he didn't. Hindsight is always 20/20 and at the end of the day most late game situation comes down to our players making plays. If Webby, doesn't allow that deep pass to the TE in CHI, if Webb doesn't allow the 4th and 2 in Cle, if Elam isn't beaten in man coverage with no help in the backend vs the Packers, we aren't even talking about late game collapses. Those are all plays where Pees had his guy in the right position but they didn't execute. That's not on him imo.

[5aiah]

I'm not saying don't use any zone but obviously Pees 4th quarter decisions are not working for our type defense. You can just look at our defensive production in the 4th quarter versus the other 3 quarters of play this season.

 

I agree that certainly it will depend on down & distance. I've seen us send 3 on 3rd and a million in the 4th quarter this season multiple times, playing zone coverage, and fail to get off the field. Again & again & again. We go into soft zones way too much in the 4th quarter, and it is probably my biggest gripe with Pees because it isn't working, and yet he keeps on doing it.

 

The Lions late game TD was due to his falling back to zone coverage leaving a LB on Calvin Johsnon. Now, Smith is a pretty talented LB but still, really? You dial up something that leaves a LB on Megatron

But the same guy was responsible for the blitzes that sent Daryl Smith right at the QB and Deangelo Tyson falling into an Interception. Zone defense is my favorite type because Ravens have shown you can mimic man defense in it as well. Last year our quarters(cover 4) coverage shell was pretty popular around the league(opposing coaches) for its man cover principles. I definitely thinks it more the players than his playcalling.

[gabefergy]

I'm not saying don't use any zone but obviously Pees 4th quarter decisions are not working for our type defense. You can just look at our defensive production in the 4th quarter versus the other 3 quarters of play this season.

I agree that certainly it will depend on down & distance. I've seen us send 3 on 3rd and a million in the 4th quarter this season multiple times, playing zone coverage, and fail to get off the field. Again & again & again. We go into soft zones way too much in the 4th quarter, and it is probably my biggest gripe with Pees because it isn't working, and yet he keeps on doing it.

The Lions late game TD was due to his falling back to zone coverage leaving a LB on Calvin Johsnon. Now, Smith is a pretty talented LB but still, really? You dial up something that leaves a LB on Megatron

The late TD was Smith on a TE, not Megatron.

[ravensdfan]

The late TD was Smith on a TE, not Megatron.

 

Yes you're correct. Didn't have time to get back and fix that after I realized it.

 

Yes there are times for zone coverage and I do understand that in the grand scheme.

 

Certainly some of our 4th quarter failures are due to the players themselves failing to execute. Let's not kid ourselves though, players who get the job done through 3 quarters of play do not routinely suddenly forget how to play in the 4th quarter. If we were talking about a game or two, I'd see it, but when it is every single gave save 2 this season, there is something wrong in the schemes we're drawing up or simply in the decisions on when to use those schemes.