Torrey Smith

[flynismo]

You all do know once y'all agree Torrey is a #1 WRer you cant keep crying about Joe not having anybody to throw to.........

Once Pitta comes back, he will have Torrey and Pitta, so I agree. Not exactly Julio / Roddy / Gonzo, but good enough for a guy like Flacco.
Now if we can just fix the main problem, which is the OL....we might have an offense again

[flynismo]

This thread is about to degenerate into Flacco-hating trollfest in 3...2...1...

[The Raven]

You all do know once y'all agree Torrey is a #1 WRer you cant keep crying about Joe not having anybody to throw to.........

 

Yes we can. One number one doesn't mean anything. He doesn't have anyone else, uh duh. Double cover Torrey and we don't have any threats. Common sense dude.

[billick]

TS is our best receiver. All teams have a best receiver. Some one has to be the best, they are all not #1's. We simply lack talent at WR. It refers to the position, not the player.

 

TS is a #3, a Slot Receiver.  If he led the team is yards, he is still a #3.

 

Is the weakside LB the weakest linebacker on the field ?

 

I know, it's complicated.

[BmoreBird22]

 

TS is our best receiver. All teams have a best receiver. Some one has to be the best, they are all not #1's. We simply lack talent at WR. It refers to the position, not the player.

 

TS is a #3, a Slot Receiver.  If he led the team is yards, he is still a #3.

 

Is the weakside LB the weakest linebacker on the field ?

 

I know, it's complicated.

A slot receiver doesn't make you a number three receiver (Wes Welker, Marquis Colston instantly come to mind). That just makes you a specialist. Anyway, I'd rather have Torrey on the outside where he can stretch the field and be a deep threat outside the numbers, not something usually seen from a slot receiver.

[Challenge Accepted]

According to PFF, Torrey has the 2nd most drops in thr nfl, which speaks for itself. He doesn't take over a game or beat double teams enough.

[PerpetuallyBored74]

As much as I love Torrey, right now in the AFC North it goes:

AJ Green > J Gordon > A Brown > T Smith

 

And that's even though Torrey has improved considerably since he joined the league in 2011.

But that just shows how raw he was coming out of college.

He clearly still has room for improvement; fortunately it doesn't seem as if he's reached his ceiling yet, and with his work ethic, he's going to continue to grow and maybe next year, he'll rank #2 in the AFC North behind Green.

But this year, our WR corp, mainly because of injuries, has been mediocre at best, with moments of just being awful.

Just like the rest of the team.

[Cville-Raven]

I could care less about how good one individual receiver is. Guys like Megatron and AJ Green will most likely never touch a lombardi in their career. As long as the core is playing well as a whole, I'm fine. Luckily since Jacoby has gotten back they've been playing some decent ball compared to where they were in the first couple weeks of the season.

[Bltravens]

A #3?  What a crock.  

TS is our best receiver. All teams have a best receiver. Some one has to be the best, they are all not #1's. We simply lack talent at WR. It refers to the position, not the player.

 

TS is a #3, a Slot Receiver.  If he led the team is yards, he is still a #3.

 

Is the weakside LB the weakest linebacker on the field ?

 

I know, it's complicated.

[BmoreBird22]

 

According to PFF, Torrey has the 2nd most drops in thr nfl, which speaks for itself. He doesn't take over a game or beat double teams enough.

Actually, he's tied for 38th with four. Number three on the list is Brandon Marshall with 10. Where did you get your stats? That wasn't even the case last year or in his rookie season.

[darklight1216]

 

 

Actually, he's tied for 38th with four. Number three on the list is Brandon Marshall with 10. Where did you get your stats? That wasn't even the case last year or in his rookie season.

 

Didn't you know that 73% of statistics are made up on the spot?

[mdrsharon]

Torrey is the bomb - and usually catches the bomb!

 

Very happy he is on our team - former Terp - now Raven, home town guy.

 

 Now if Joe can just be a drop more accurate, and if the O line could just give him time to make the play - we would be rockin' even more.

 

Go Ravens. :football:

[Challenge Accepted]

 

 

Actually, he's tied for 38th with four. Number three on the list is Brandon Marshall with 10. Where did you get your stats? That wasn't even the case last year or in his rookie season.

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/10/30/signature-stats-drop-rate/

Haha, I misread it. It was drop rate(catchable passes to catches) and Torrey had 31 catchable throws to him and he caught all of them.

[BmoreBird22]

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/10/30/signature-stats-drop-rate/

Haha, I misread it. It was drop rate(catchable passes to catches) and Torrey had 31 catchable throws to him and he caught all of them.

I was so confused for a second. I was like checking all of those years. I thought you meant like over the past four weeks, which wouldn't surprise me.

[1/28/01]

According to PFF, Torrey has the 2nd most drops in thr nfl, which speaks for itself. He doesn't take over a game or beat double teams enough.

The sky is green, grass is blue and you've contributed intelligently to this conversation ;)

[Speed Kills]

As horrible as our offense has been in general most of the season, Torrey is still on pace to break the Ravens' single season receiving yard record. Sounds like a #1 receiver for this particular team's purposes to me. You can't compare our offensive scheme to other schemes and their #1 receivers.

 

So what? That isn't a very impressive record or anything. Also we can absolutely compare our offensive scheme to other schemes and their #1 receivers when those schemes and receivers produce more than ours and Torrey Smith does. Our offense is not very good. Part of that has to do with what our players can do physically. That influences our scheme. Torrey is a very good receiver. I would say he is a number 1 receiver, but not a high end 1. He could really use another guy close to his level to take pressure off of him. He is getting better each year and still has to work on some things like his route tree and even his hands at times although they have already improved so much. In another few years and with some more help with other offensive weapons he could be a guy who can take over a game. He just isn't there yet. Hopefully he doesn't demand obscene money because no way is he worth even close to what the Dolphins payed Mike Wallace. NOT EVEN CLOSE

[Militant X 1]

The problem with Torrey Smith is that he doesn't take over games the way we'd expect a #1 receiver to.

 

Though his numbers are relatively consistent with that of a #1 receiver, when you look past the numbers, you'd only find a handful of games where Torrey Smith truly dominated -- even the phrase "dominant" is subjective when you consider the consistently dominant performances that all-world receivers like Calvin Johnson deliver.

 

The book on Torrey Smith has yet to be written, but for this season, it's hard to say he's truly a dominant #1 receiver when there are other hands who've delivered more convincing performances. This isn't to knock his abilities; he's just not the first name that comes to mind when you think of "#1 receiver."

I agree!

 

#Mili

[T3hRaven]

Quite simply no, and the dropped td against Pitts is the example of why. He's just not dominate enough at beating defenders with anything other than his speed.

His boxing out and shielding with his body in those type of contested catches isn't great, his hands while improved aren't good enough to catch the majority of contested balls.

 

He has got to attack the ball better in those situations before he can join the upper echelon of receivers.  There's a lot of nuances that he just doesn't have down.  He's running more intermediate and short routes this year, but he's still dropping a lot of balls he should catch.  

 

There's not a question that Torrey is a Top 20 type of guy if you're looking purely at receivers (if you bring TEs in it gets a bit more cloudy), ultimately what we're debating is if he belongs in the upper part of that.  Right now he doesn't.  Guys I'd take over Torrey, in no particular order: Megaton, Andre Johnson, Antonio Brown, AJ Green, Brandon Marshall, Demaryius Thomas, Vincent Jackson, Dez Bryant, Julio Jones, Reggie Wayne, (healthy) Roddy White, and Larry Fitzgerald.  So he's about the 13th best receiver IMO, and that's not bad company to be in, and he's on the mid tier with guys like Colston, Nicks (due to him being made of glass more than his talent), Jordy Nelson, and Steve Smith.  What the majority of those guys have helping them is a complementary threat, usually multiple ones, which we don't have.  I don't think there's anything particular special about the Packers group of receivers, but they're all pretty decent players who collectively produce a productive passing game.

 

Ultimately this debate is a cute thing for you guys to have, but this is not how coaches think (I say, feeling very Cosell-esque).  They don't care where the rankings are or if this guy is a true number one or not, they use the players they have to create match-up issues, assuming they know what they're doing as coaches.  Torrey does not have the skillset of a guy like Dez, either of the Johnsons, or even a Reggie Wayne.  He can't be relied upon to fight for the ball and make tough catches in traffic, and that's fine.  He has a really useful skillset for our team because he is in the top 10 for deep threats.  Remember the year we had Boldin, Mason, and Housh?  A major part of our game was limited because we lacked a guy that could take advantage of Joe's massive cannon, and I'm glad we have that element to our offense now.  But as of right now, it's difficult to know if Torrey is going to learn to do those things well enough to be relied upon.  Right now I'm leaning no, not because I dislike in him or don't believe in his work ethic, it's because I think his hands have improved immensely since college and I think he might be at his ceiling in that particular aspect.

 

We need a reliable target to make catches at all levels of the fields, even when contested.  While Pitta will help with that, that second receiver (whether or not he winds up being our 'true number one' or whatever you guys want to call him) is our biggest need heading into the off-season, assuming Monroe and Pitta are re-signed.

 

Ultimately what it comes down to, as it does in so many of my posts, is what do we pay Torrey.  He's another guy, like Rice, whose production is artificially inflated due to forced usage, because that's the only option we have.  Victor Cruz money is the ceiling for Torrey's next contract, and ideally we'd get him signed for cheaper than that.

 

Another thought, how often have you guys seen us use the back shoulder throw?  I see other teams do us constantly, but I don't see us using it.  That might be what Flacco was experimenting with during the pre-season where he kept getting picked off throwing to Jacoby.  Just a thought I had watching Monday Night Football.

[Purple_ICE 81]

 

I want to hear all of your impressions of Torrey Smith. 

I was talking to a buddy of mine the other day and he is thoroughly convinced that Torrey Smith is a terrible number one receiver, but a great number two. I disagree, completely. I think Torrey is a strong number one receiver, showing the ability to run all of the routes this season, especially refining his underneath game and showing a much better ability to go over the middle. 

I always felt he was a number one last year, but this season has really proven it for me. 

People primarily think he's a deep threat who doesn't go over the middle or run the short routes, but that is incorrect. 

Smith has 54 receptions on the season, 30 of those coming from behind the line of scrimmage to nine yards beyond it. Of his 100 targets, 40 have come in that same described area. Both of those are higher than any other level (10-19 yards or 20+ yards). Of his 54 catches, 33 have come in the middle of the field (19 in the middle and within 9 yards of the line of scrimmage). He has been targeted 45 times when going to the middle of the field.

Personally, I think Torrey Smith is a number one receiver. He has become so much more dynamic than just a deep threat this season. I think with a little more offensive help around him, Smith could be a top 10 receiver. I really am impressed by his progressions.

What do you think, number one or two receiver?

 

He is not a dependable WR yet, but a very elite playmaker. In my opinion he is grouped with Mike Wallace, Cecil Shorts, Danarius Moore, Antonio Brown...guys who can go out and make show stopping plays. He is just not yet that go to WR that can catch 5+ balls on a long drive on short crisp clean routes and help keep our drives alive in fact that is the type of WR our team desperately needs right now thats who Anquan Boldin was. He also is not of the physical nature just yet and needs to push hard in the offseasons ahead of him to add on weight and get much stronger...work on coming off the line with more force, every offseason you hear about Calvin Johnson adding muscle in the weight room hopefully Torrey starts doing that.  If Torrey can continue to learn and develop his route tree he will be a force to be reckoned with...but right now he is a highend WR2, he is just got to develop his route running and catching more and get stronger in order to become a more dependable weapon.

 

But right now he is 68 yards away from being the Baltimore Ravens first WR to eclipse 1000 yards since Derrick Mason in like 2008 so hats off to him...and Id say he is worth a solid $35-$40M too.

[Guest Mr. Nobody]

congrats for passing the 1k receiving yards in a season mark, now let's get them 170 yards needed to set up the new franchise season record

[T3hRaven]

Bored and looking through some numbers, we know Torrey screws up a lot of deep balls but apparently he drops about a quarter of his deep targets.  He's also targeted the most and is ranked 16th in catching percentage on deep balls, among receivers who see the field 50% of the time.  Always nice when the numbers back up the observation.

[K-Dog]

Bored and looking through some numbers, we know Torrey screws up a lot of deep balls but apparently he drops about a quarter of his deep targets.  He's also targeted the most and is ranked 16th in catching percentage on deep balls, among receivers who see the field 50% of the time.  Always nice when the numbers back up the observation.

 

Now what is the actual definition of " a drop "?

Actual contact with the hands and then on the turf, I get that......
If the ball grazes the finger tips and is ever so slightly out of reach? Is that a drop?

Getting stripped is that a drop?

Bouncing between your hands and a defenders hands is that a drop?

[arnie_uk]

Now what is the actual definition of " a drop "?
Actual contact with the hands and then on the turf, I get that......
If the ball grazes the finger tips and is ever so slightly out of reach? Is that a drop?
Getting stripped is that a drop?
Bouncing between your hands and a defenders hands is that a drop?

a drop for torrey is a drop for everyone else, doesn't matter what is classed as a drop, they are all on the same playing field.

[K-Dog]

a drop for torrey is a drop for everyone else, doesn't matter what is classed as a drop, they are all on the same playing field.

My question wasn't about Torrey, my question was the definition of a dropped pass.
For sake of stats...

[FlocksGottaFeed]

Torrey Smith is the #1 receiver (with a small disclaimer). In order to have a traditional #1 receiver (Larry Fitzgerald, Calvin Johnson, Andre Johnson) you have to have a rare 'extraordinary' athlete utilized in a 'traditional' offensive scheme. That means it's easy to identify who is the #1 receiver on any given down and create coverages to stop him. Because very few teams in this era can get away with that, most will have 3 competent receivers who are hybrids. The Ravens are one of these teams.

 

Our receivers are #1/2's and #2/3's and for the most part are interchangeable given down and distance. I think this is the best kind of offensive scheme that keeps defenses guessing. At the end of the day (depending on matchups), Torrey may not be the #1, but at the end of the season and as we plan for the future he will be our #1 on more downs and statistically.

 

Just a thought. Does it make sense?

[arnie_uk]

My question wasn't about Torrey, my question was the definition of a dropped pass.
For sake of stats...

does it matter? A drop for Torrey would also be classed as a drop for someome else. Nfl.com might use different definations to pff for drops. But as long as your comparing the stats from the same site the outcome will still be the same regardless of what they class as a drop.

[K-Dog]

does it matter? A drop for Torrey would also be classed as a drop for someome else. Nfl.com might use different definations to pff for drops. But as long as your comparing the stats from the same site the outcome will still be the same regardless of what they class as a drop.

It matters because I am curious as to how the NFL defines " a drop " .
My question has nothing to do with Torrey.

[arnie_uk]

It matters because I am curious as to how the NFL defines " a drop " .
My question has nothing to do with Torrey.

diff sites would have different definations. Some say if hits hands at all its a drop

[The Mom Gene]

Torrey had two problems at Maryland...  Didn't run crisp routes... and his drops.  I see the same problem as a Raven sometimes...  He's not consistent in the route running...  Slows down, speeds up... 

 

Suggs told him last year...  "Sometimes it isn't going to be perfect;  You gotta go out there and get it, that's your job...Sometimes you just gotta be great"

[PoeDinkum]

Gaudy numbers are the surest way to not make the playoffs or lose quickly while there, (Maybe with the exception of Peyton Manning.), because good defenses generally take the strength away or limit it.

 

We had tremendous Balance in the receiving corps last year and it was a big reason we won the Championship.  The overall numbers were irrelevant, unless you like that fantasy game. 

 

Torrey Smith has great strengths. He is quick and has excellent top end speed. He's a student and runs the proper route. His hands have come a long way, but he is not a snatch and hold receiver of Boldin's caliber.  Additionally, more often than not he creates separation with his speed rather than good moves or great footwork.  He can be stymied by a top corner.

 

Jacoby Jones on the other hand has moves that can leave a corner guessing. Not unlike what happened to Chykie Brown the first play he had to guard Antonio. JJ has had questionable hands, but he's also come a long way with us. He can still dart. He was gone on that kick return vs the Steelers until Tomlin obstructed him. He was not caught until he veered inward.

 

All we are missing now is that Clutch Possession receiver.  Pitta is great, but he's not a WR.

 

Is Torrey a number 1?  It really doesn't matter. All that matters is a complimentary receiving corps. We have parts of it, but we don't have the whole thing.

This is well stated as Torrey cannot dominate a game; however, include a presence in Pitta over the middle and a combo of Jones and an emerging MBrown and the O can definitely play to his strengths. I would REALLY like to see Marlon use his height advantage today over the shorter NE dbs.