Torrey Smith

[BmoreBird22]

I want to hear all of your impressions of Torrey Smith. 

I was talking to a buddy of mine the other day and he is thoroughly convinced that Torrey Smith is a terrible number one receiver, but a great number two. I disagree, completely. I think Torrey is a strong number one receiver, showing the ability to run all of the routes this season, especially refining his underneath game and showing a much better ability to go over the middle. 

I always felt he was a number one last year, but this season has really proven it for me. 

People primarily think he's a deep threat who doesn't go over the middle or run the short routes, but that is incorrect. 

Smith has 54 receptions on the season, 30 of those coming from behind the line of scrimmage to nine yards beyond it. Of his 100 targets, 40 have come in that same described area. Both of those are higher than any other level (10-19 yards or 20+ yards). Of his 54 catches, 33 have come in the middle of the field (19 in the middle and within 9 yards of the line of scrimmage). He has been targeted 45 times when going to the middle of the field.

Personally, I think Torrey Smith is a number one receiver. He has become so much more dynamic than just a deep threat this season. I think with a little more offensive help around him, Smith could be a top 10 receiver. I really am impressed by his progressions.

What do you think, number one or two receiver?

[K-Dog]

I am sorry but I don't do impressions.

[beanfigger]

I think he's a capable number one, but if hesitate to call him a "strong" number one. His route tree is certainly continuing to grow, but he needs to work on his box out and ball skills a bit more. Strong number ones can make a play in a big moment without having a perfect throw or busted coverage. He doesn't do that enough. I was wrong before the season when I assumed he measured up to the number ones in our division, save Green of course, but Brown and Gordon are also clearly better than Smith. I'm not giving up on him, and I would love to see how much he can improve with another true weapon playing alongside him, but he isn't where I'd like a number one to be, yet.

[Footman DCXLV]

Personally, I think Torrey Smith is a number one receiver. He has become so much more dynamic than just a deep threat this season. I think with a little more offensive help around him, Smith could be a top 10 receiver. I really am impressed by his progressions.

What do you think, number one or two receiver?

 

 

He's spent most of the season in the top ten in receiving yards (even leading the league for one week), so there's already the argument that he is. But, the only thing going against Torrey is the evolution of the game. 8 or 10 years ago, Torrey is one of the best in the league. In today's NFL when guys are throwing for 4500+ yards a year, everybody expects gaudy numbers.

[BmoreBird22]

 

He's spent most of the season in the top ten in receiving yards (even leading the league for one week), so there's already the argument that he is. But, the only thing going against Torrey is the evolution of the game. 8 or 10 years ago, Torrey is one of the best in the league. In today's NFL when guys are throwing for 4500+ yards a year, everybody expects gaudy numbers.

One of the things I really judge a receiver by is his touchdown numbers. It was my biggest complaint with Boldin, and Torrey only has four on the year. I think the in the upcoming weeks he goes and gets more, but I'd really like to see double digits before I call him a top 10 receiver.

[Footman DCXLV]

 

 

One of the things I really judge a receiver by is his touchdown numbers. It was my biggest complaint with Boldin, and Torrey only has four on the year. I think the in the upcoming weeks he goes and gets more, but I'd really like to see double digits before I call him a top 10 receiver.

 

 

I'm with you on that one, but I think you have to look at the whole offense for that one. Nobody on this team is going to have those high touchdown totals. So many other teams get down inside the 5-yard-line and throw fades, or even line up in shotgun with multiple receivers, and that gives the wideouts many more touchdowns by the end of the season. When our offense gets that close, we generally try to run it in, or throw it to a tight end. In another system,

As much as I'm a huge Joe Flacco fan and will argue his elite status (I had to say the word), he still doesn't throw guys open the way some other quarterbacks do, and he does have a tendency to underthrow the deep ball. On another team, I think Torrey would have more impressive stats. Albeit with fewer wins.

[BmoreBird22]

 

I'm with you on that one, but I think you have to look at the whole offense for that one. Nobody on this team is going to have those high touchdown totals. So many other teams get down inside the 5-yard-line and throw fades, or even line up in shotgun with multiple receivers, and that gives the wideouts many more touchdowns by the end of the season. When our offense gets that close, we generally try to run it in, or throw it to a tight end. In another system,

As much as I'm a huge Joe Flacco fan and will argue his elite status (I had to say the word), he still doesn't throw guys open the way some other quarterbacks do, and he does have a tendency to underthrow the deep ball. On another team, I think Torrey would have more impressive stats. Albeit with fewer wins.

Well, I see potential for Smith. He had, I believe, 13 touchdowns in his first two years, and that was when he was really getting the nuances of the game. I think he has the potential to take over the game and score 13 in a single season, but not with the lack of help he has. A team can just put their number one cornerback on him and sit the safety overtop and it's just about a done deal at times.

I agree Joe has looked off at times. I will also argue for him being elite, but I think the offensive line and amount of pressure he's received has gotten into his head and just rushed some throws. I think once this offensive line gets cleaned up (bye Castillo) and once we get Pitta back and a new receiver alongside Torrey, the offense will open up. 

I agree that they try to run it in too much. With the offensive struggles, I would rather Torrey move into the slot and go over the middle in the red zone, not be used as a blocker.

[Poes Crows]

He's spent most of the season in the top ten in receiving yards (even leading the league for one week), so there's already the argument that he is. But, the only thing going against Torrey is the evolution of the game. 8 or 10 years ago, Torrey is one of the best in the league. In today's NFL when guys are throwing for 4500+ yards a year, everybody expects gaudy numbers.

 

Gaudy numbers are the surest way to not make the playoffs or lose quickly while there, (Maybe with the exception of Peyton Manning.), because good defenses generally take the strength away or limit it.

 

We had tremendous Balance in the receiving corps last year and it was a big reason we won the Championship.  The overall numbers were irrelevant, unless you like that fantasy game. 

 

Torrey Smith has great strengths. He is quick and has excellent top end speed. He's a student and runs the proper route. His hands have come a long way, but he is not a snatch and hold receiver of Boldin's caliber.  Additionally, more often than not he creates separation with his speed rather than good moves or great footwork.  He can be stymied by a top corner.

 

Jacoby Jones on the other hand has moves that can leave a corner guessing. Not unlike what happened to Chykie Brown the first play he had to guard Antonio. JJ has had questionable hands, but he's also come a long way with us. He can still dart. He was gone on that kick return vs the Steelers until Tomlin obstructed him. He was not caught until he veered inward.

 

All we are missing now is that Clutch Possession receiver.  Pitta is great, but he's not a WR.

 

Is Torrey a number 1?  It really doesn't matter. All that matters is a complimentary receiving corps. We have parts of it, but we don't have the whole thing.

[Footman DCXLV]

I agree that they try to run it in too much. With the offensive struggles, I would rather Torrey move into the slot and go over the middle in the red zone, not be used as a blocker.

 

 

It definitely effects the statsheet compared to the rest of the league, but I'm torn about whether it's actually "too much," or not. We're obviously one of the few teams that's committed to what is now an outdated style of football, which is winning consistently without a 300-yard passer in every game. On one hand, you wonder how good we could be if we sold out for the numbers the way other teams do, but on the other, the fact is that it's worked out pretty well for us over the last six years, while the rest of the league has "evolved" around us.

 

Something I've noticed that very few people pick up on is that as an offense gets better, a defense tends to get worse. And, vice versa. It isn't actually about one getting better or worse. It's just that the more points you score, the more your opponent scores to keep up, which makes your defense look worse. Conversely, the fewer points you score, the fewer your opponent needs to score, which makes your defense look better. That's why the teams with the best defenses over the last decade (Ravens, Steelers, etc.) generally never had the highest-ranked offenses compared to the rest of the league. Simply put, they didn't need that to win.

[BmoreBird22]

 

It definitely effects the statsheet compared to the rest of the league, but I'm torn about whether it's actually "too much," or not. We're obviously one of the few teams that's committed to what is now an outdated style of football, which is winning consistently without a 300-yard passer in every game. On one hand, you wonder how good we could be if we sold out for the numbers the way other teams do, but on the other, the fact is that it's worked out pretty well for us over the last six years, while the rest of the league has "evolved" around us.

 

Something I've noticed that very few people pick up on is that as an offense gets better, a defense tends to get worse. And, vice versa. It isn't actually about one getting better or worse. It's just that the more points you score, the more your opponent scores to keep up, which makes your defense look worse. Conversely, the fewer points you score, the fewer your opponent needs to score, which makes your defense look better. That's why the teams with the best defenses over the last decade (Ravens, Steelers, etc.) generally never had the highest-ranked offenses compared to the rest of the league. Simply put, they didn't need that to win.

Well, I do agree that a defense tends to look worse, but teams like the Packers and Patriots were middle of the road or better in terms of points per game scored when their defenses allowed a record number of yards. They bent, but forced turnovers. But, I do agree. If you have a high octane offense, it can take an effect on the defense, especially if you score quickly. 

I think it's too much for how bad our running game is. If we were blocking better and averaging more YPC, I wouldn't care because they'd be scoring, but they aren't, and that's what bothers me.

[The Raven]

I'm not sure what he is, but whatever he is, he's damn good and I'm happy as hell he's a Raven.

[CalvinSmoke]

He can still get clamped on a little bit by top corners but he's improved every year. Can't ask for much more than that. May end up being the most decorated receiver in Ravens history. 

[The Raven]

He can still get clamped on a little bit by top corners but he's improved every year. Can't ask for much more than that. May end up being the most decorated receiver in Ravens history. 

 

That's not saying much haha

[HomeoftheBRAVENS]

He's not a big enough redzone threat to be considered a number one.

[theFRANCHISE]

The problem with Torrey Smith is that he doesn't take over games the way we'd expect a #1 receiver to.

 

Though his numbers are relatively consistent with that of a #1 receiver, when you look past the numbers, you'd only find a handful of games where Torrey Smith truly dominated -- even the phrase "dominant" is subjective when you consider the consistently dominant performances that all-world receivers like Calvin Johnson deliver.

 

The book on Torrey Smith has yet to be written, but for this season, it's hard to say he's truly a dominant #1 receiver when there are other hands who've delivered more convincing performances. This isn't to knock his abilities; he's just not the first name that comes to mind when you think of "#1 receiver."

[RavensFanInCA]

One of the things I really judge a receiver by is his touchdown numbers. It was my biggest complaint with Boldin, and Torrey only has four on the year. I think the in the upcoming weeks he goes and gets more, but I'd really like to see double digits before I call him a top 10 receiver.

Yeah, Calvin Johnson was pretty terrible last year.

[NFLfan123]

Personally I think Torrey Smith is very underrated and more than just a capable #1WR

I feel he is currently a boarderline pro bowled whom hasn't reached his full potential yet of course

[TSizzle00]

Torrey is a #1 WR, what he is not is a top 5 WR. Usually those top 5 people make those circus catches and have those games where they just take over no matter what the defense throws. Torrey is not there yet but he is a #1 WR.

 

Not all #1 WRs play like Megatron.

 

EDIT: I didn't see what theFRANCHISE posted before I did my post. We basically said the same thing lol.

[BmoreBird22]

Yeah, Calvin Johnson was pretty terrible last year.

No one said that equates to a terrible receiver in any way. I just was saying that I think it holds you out of being one of the top receivers. That's why I consider Jerry Rice's 1800 yard season more impressive and Johnson's own 1600 yard season more impressive. Just what I think, but if you're putting up almost 2000 yards, 5 touchdowns is disappointing to me.

[arnie_uk]

Quite simply no, and the dropped td against Pitts is the example of why. He's just not dominate enough at beating defenders with anything other than his speed.

His boxing out and shielding with his body in those type of contested catches isn't great, his hands while improved aren't good enough to catch the majority of contested balls.

[Corvus]

As horrible as our offense has been in general most of the season, Torrey is still on pace to break the Ravens' single season receiving yard record. Sounds like a #1 receiver for this particular team's purposes to me. You can't compare our offensive scheme to other schemes and their #1 receivers.

[The Raven]

Really depends on how you define a number one receiver.If you ask John Harbaugh, he'll tell you that it's the guy on top of the depth chart. If you ask someone else, it's a guy that dominates double coverage. If you ask me, it's a guy that will catch the majority of the balls thrown his way, gets open routinely, beats single coverage, and requires double coverage to keep him from blowing the top off a defense. By those standards, Torrey is a number one.

[jdynamite]

When talking about Torrey Smith to other people, a couple things must be kept in mind:
1) many non-raven fans still view Torrey as only a speed WR, deep threat, one trick pony. They haven't paid enough attention to his development as a route runner the last 2 seasons, or how much he has improved his hands.
2) people saw the playoff run and believed that Boldin had been that effective all year, when in reality last season many teams focused on stopping Torrey early on unless Boldin had a quick start.

Even when Torrey was Top 3 in yards through 6 weeks, he wasn't talked about much.

[Radinho84]

As horrible as our offense has been in general most of the season, Torrey is still on pace to break the Ravens' single season receiving yard record. Sounds like a #1 receiver for this particular team's purposes to me. You can't compare our offensive scheme to other schemes and their #1 receivers.

Agreed. He is our Nr. 1 receiver for sure. Seems like he is the best receiver we´ve ever had - stats wise.

What I like most about torrey is his development over the time within our organization. Seems like he is getting better every year. He got a lot better in catching the ball. He isn´t one dimensional anymore regarding route running. And he is very tough.

We will have a lot of fun watching him in the future. That´s for sure...

[arnie_uk]

Really depends on how you define a number one receiver.If you ask John Harbaugh, he'll tell you that it's the guy on top of the depth chart. If you ask someone else, it's a guy that dominates double coverage. If you ask me, it's a guy that will catch the majority of the balls thrown his way, gets open routinely, beats single coverage, and requires double coverage to keep him from blowing the top off a defense. By those standards, Torrey is a number one.

they is a key point. For me a number one can do it all. And Torrey can win many contested catches... yet.

[flynismo]

I'm not sure what he is, but whatever he is, he's damn good and I'm happy as hell he's a Raven.

I know man......
People and their labels.

[flynismo]

He is OUR number one.
If what you really are asking is where he ranks among all the WR in the league, well, that's subjective. Just like every other "who is better..." comparison.
If you are asking if he can "do it all" and be the go to guy for his team, yes, he can. Other guys are more well rounded than him, however.
All that matters is that he can do everything we need him to, so to me, that defines a "number one"

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Tough question to answer bc it depends on what the criteria for #1 is.

He's our #1.

And each team technically has a #1, 32 teams, so I guess the truest measure would be that the 32 best receivers in the league are technically capable #1's (i.e. if there was a league fantasy draft, the top 32 receivers picked would all be their respective teams' #1 guy).

By that measurement Torrey is also a #1.

He's also the guy that when the opposing defense is game-planning the passing game they look at Torrey first. He's the first problem they look to solve, so in that regard he is also a #1 receiver.

I think no matter how you slice it he's a #1 receiver. Unless of course your definition is in my opinion off base, where your criteria is Megatron, Julio, Green, Dez....

I mean, is Steve Smith a #1 receiver? I'd say yes, but im sure there are those who would say he's not bc of his size and the role he typically plays. But he's the 1st receiver defenses look to shut down when trying to solve Carolina's offense.

[Corvus]

Pretty much everyone on this page has elaborated on what I was trying to say in my first post. Calvin Johnson, in the opinion of many including myself, is the best WR in the NFL. But in 3 of his 7 seasons he has caught 5 or fewer TDs in the regular season. Does that mean those years he wasn't Detroit's #1 because he wasn't a big red zone target/big TD catcher? Absolutely not. Its a classic "apples and oranges" comparison when looking at wideouts across teams. While some of the offenses have base schemes similar to others (I.e. theyre all "fruit") each is going to utilize their top receiver in different ways, not to mention all of the in-game factors that can prevent guys from being used as it was originally planned.

[PurpleCityLights]

You all do know once y'all agree Torrey is a #1 WRer you cant keep crying about Joe not having anybody to throw to.........