*The Return Of* Seven Things with SAM

[SecretAgentMan]

Review session today boys and girls....

Offense

1. Ray Rice is done'

Just too old. It doesn't help that the oline doesn't know how to open up a hole to save it's life, but he's lost his burst. We need Pierce to be the starter now.

2. AQ Shipley is trash

More of an observation. Even with how bad KO was playing, we miss him. It's gotten a lot harder without the guy

3. Gino, while improving, still sucks

Tutorial on How to Sack Flacco

Send rusher up the middle. Guaranteed sack


4. Ed Dickson is slowly getting better

He looks like he's improving, and had a few important catches today.
Makes me wonder if we resign him if he keeps it up. If he continues improving we might have the legit two TE offense we've always wanted.

5. Monroe needs to be locked up.
The oline is bad, but he is playing well. He is a CLEAR improvement over Mckinnie, and we should lock him up SOON.

6. We look to have a tight battle for the WR #3 spot next year.

Assuming we draft a WR next year to be our #2, we got good guys for the case of a #3.

Brown, Doss, Tomphson

The future is bright


7. But our #2 option is coming back soon.

Pitta is returning soon! He won't be his normal self for awhile, but should still have a set of reliable hands to catch passes with.


Defense

1. The Bengals did not come back because of the secondary

They came back based off of a lucky play. An instantaneous reaction from Diggs, and Green has a TD. Not blaming that on him at all. It was a lucky play, and the secondary played a decent game today.

2. Don't be too mad at Dayrl Smith

Tyler Eifert is a beast. That one completion Dalton had before the bomb, was in good coverage. But Eifert is a physical stud. Smith is our best coverage LB, and I hope his injury isn't too serious.

3. Arthur Brown
Can Blitz. Up the middle he was terrorizing Dalton all day. It was just fun to watch. He has a bright future with us.

4. Jimmy Smith is a tough dude
How often did they call Smith's name today?

Not often, very good sign for a CB. He's developed into a very good CB that isn't thrown to.

When AJ Green was on him, Dalton did not look Green's way.

He keeps it up, he'll be an all pro

5. Webb looks like he's back to good.

The return of our shutdown CB! He looks like he was back to old form today. An INT, good tackles.

He's good. And if he and Jimmy keep it up, Bmore will have a very good secondary for years to come.

6. I see why we released Spears
It's because we got good dline depth.

Canty was a good addition, and Ngata outside of that one penalty played a pretty good game, but we got good depth with our DTs Tyson, KPL, Art Jones(who I could actually see us resigning at this point), Mcphee.

Ozzie did good here.


7. Elvis Dumervil

Is a strong dude. Especially for someone his size. That sack at the end, he brought down Dalton with one hand, and was fighting Whitworth with the other.


Plus he came up in the clutch again. Last time vs Dolphins, this time vs Bengals...

I like this guy lol


Ozzie did good here too.


And now for a new segment I would like to call QOTD(Question of the Day for those who don't know how to use acronyms)


QOTD: After the season, what would Ray Rice's trade value be, and would we save cap for it?

I'd say some desperate team would give up a 3rd - 5th round pick for the guy. I don't think we'd save that much money this year, but in up and coming years I think so.

[NaveSenrag]

I disagree with #4. Jimmy got thrown at all day long, and I heard his name quite a bit. It was just that his name was being mentioned for pass defenses, tight coverage, and coming out of the secondary to make plays in the run game.

[SecretAgentMan]

I disagree with #4. Jimmy got thrown at all day long, and I heard his name quite a bit. It was just that his name was being mentioned for pass defenses, tight coverage, and coming out of the secondary to make plays in the run game.

Either way it's still a positive lol.

 

You can't deny that Smith has become a very good corner. It's just not true. This team has a good future, especially if we get another weapon and a true FS

[runamuk]

well you did mention Mcphee which no one does . I don't agree about rice but I get why people are calling for his head . I think the defense  secondary included play well I felt like I was in the 2000's. someone needs to figure out a configuration that helps our oline improve we came out fast but wth happened ugh . a win is a win.

[NaveSenrag]

Yeah. I've been hard on Smith in the past for perennially not living up to the hype, but he's been the best player in our secondary this season. Smith, Webb, Jackson, Elam, and a FS will be deadly.

[T3hRaven]

SAM come on man, you know better.  Rice can't be traded because of the accelerated cap hit.  It'd be like $15 or 20 million next season, I don't remember which exactly.

[NaveSenrag]

SAM come on man, you know better.  Rice can't be traded because of the accelerated cap hit.  It'd be like $15 or 20 million next season, I don't remember which exactly.

They can still sit him. What's the point of putting our second best RB on the field just because we're paying him more?

[SecretAgentMan]

SAM come on man, you know better.  Rice can't be traded because of the accelerated cap hit.  It'd be like $15 or 20 million next season, I don't remember which exactly.

Damnit you caught me lol.

 

 

I think he's do to be subject to the McGahee treatment though... That's for certain.

[runamuk]

Either way it's still a positive lol.

 

You can't deny that Smith has become a very good corner. It's just not true. This team has a good future, especially if we get another weapon and a true FS

No one gives Jimmy any credit he could lock down the entire field and someone will still complain.

[Ravenseconbeast]

The biggest 'wow i didnt see that comming'  was DeAngelo Tyson.   Soon as Ngata left and Tyson came in, things started to get a lot tougher for the ginger.   

Ngata sprained his knee today and his been banged up.  So I can (to a point) understand.  But his been regressing for a good 2 years.   Maybe its time we think about what to do w/ him.

[jazz1988]

I don't believe rice is done theres not a lot running backs in the league that lose it at 26 years old  which is fairly still pretty young  . I just can't wait until Rice gets healthy  or atleast when we get better  run blocking from the o-line

[SecretAgentMan]

The biggest 'wow i didnt see that comming'  was DeAngelo Tyson.   Soon as Ngata left and Tyson came in, things started to get a lot tougher for the ginger.   

Ngata sprained his knee today and his been banged up.  So I can (to a point) understand.  But his been regressing for a good 2 years.   Maybe its time we think about what to do w/ him.

Ngata is still important to the line. He's not as good as he used to be but he's still good.

I don't think NT is right for him , and that Tyson and Cody should be rotating there

[rmw10]

I don't believe rice is done theres not a lot running backs in the league that lose it at 26 years old  which is fairly still pretty young  . I just can't wait until Rice gets healthy  or atleast when we get better  run blocking from the o-line

 

It's not about age.  It's about usage.  He was used tons in college, and he was used tons here.  He's said for the past 4 weeks that he's back at 100%.  I hate to say it, but I honestly think he is done.  Line issues or not, Rice is not even close to the same player.  He wasn't in the couple of games before the injury, either.  I'm not saying that the OL has no blame, but there's clearly regression from Rice.

[T3hRaven]

It's not about age.  It's about usage.  He was used tons in college, and he was used tons here.  He's said for the past 4 weeks that he's back at 100%.  I hate to say it, but I honestly think he is done.  Line issues or not, Rice is not even close to the same player.  He wasn't in the couple of games before the injury, either.  I'm not saying that the OL has no blame, but there's clearly regression from Rice.

 

This.  Rice is only what, 26?  If he really is done this early this could have ramifications throughout the league.  A running back may never get that size of a contract again.

[rmw10]

This.  Rice is only what, 26?  If he really is done this early this could have ramifications throughout the league.  A running back may never get that size of a contract again.

 

Exactly.  It sounds crazy to think that a RB may be done at 26, but it's true.  He's been run into the ground for years now.  I could see usage beginning to play a huge part in draft stock.

[NaveSenrag]

The biggest 'wow i didnt see that comming'  was DeAngelo Tyson.   Soon as Ngata left and Tyson came in, things started to get a lot tougher for the ginger.   

Ngata sprained his knee today and his been banged up.  So I can (to a point) understand.  But his been regressing for a good 2 years.   Maybe its time we think about what to do w/ him.

Tyson had a pretty nice sack celebration, too.

[rmw10]

Tyson had a pretty nice sack celebration, too.

 

I dig it.  I was watching the game with my buddies, a couple of which are hunters.  They now have a new favorite player.

[jazz1988]

It's not about age.  It's about usage.  He was used tons in college, and he was used tons here.  He's said for the past 4 weeks that he's back at 100%.  I hate to say it, but I honestly think he is done.  Line issues or not, Rice is not even close to the same player.  He wasn't in the couple of games before the injury, either.  I'm not saying that the OL has no blame, but there's clearly regression from Rice.

 

I don't expect ray rice to come out and say he's  not 100%. Players say they are 100% al l the time and  are really not . I'm sure there has been running backs in the league that have been used a ton in college  and still have a very solid long career .

[jimmypowder]

[quote name="rmw10" post="1661122" timestamp="1384133571"] It's not about age. It's about usage. He was used tons in college, and he was used tons here. He's said for the past 4 weeks that he's back at 100%. I hate to say it, but I honestly think he is done. Line issues or not, Rice is not even close to the same player. He wasn't in the couple of games before the injury, either. I'm not saying that the OL has no blame, but there's clearly regression from Rice.[/quote] Your right about this. We have used Rice like a workhorse when we had years with a weak passing game . Much like how Heap got his NFL career shortened with all those jump balls , using Rice so frequently in both the run and pass game may have significantly decreased his .

[rmw10]

I don't expect ray rice to come out and say he's  not 100%. Players say they are 100% al l the time and  are really not . I'm sure there has been running backs in the league that have been used a ton in college  and still have a very solid long career .

 

If he's not 100%, then he shouldn't say it.  When he says he's 100%, people expect that he's 100%.  If this is Rice at the 100% he says he is, then he's absolutely done.  And if he's not 100%, get him off the field.  It's clearly that a whatever% Ray Rice may actually be is not helping us.  Even before the injury though, he didn't look any better.

 

And as for usage, another thing you have to look at is when he entered the NFL.  He was drafted at age 21.  He got a huge workload in college at 19-20.  Add it up, and that's 6-7 years of hard usage.  Age doesn't determine everything.  There may have been plenty of RB's that last until the average 28-29 years old, but they may have been drafted at 24 and didn't get heavy usage in college until age 22 or so.  Age is just a number.  Usage is the issue.  Off the top of my head, I can't think of any RB that has been used as hard as he has that has lasted.

[frozen joe flacco fan]

Ray Rice came up with some clutch plays today on a day when there weren't too many highlights. He has lost some of the pep in his game and is not hitting the hole with any pop but he is still a threat as a receiver and a RB. The gameplans for most teams we've played this year has been to stop RR w/ 8 men in the box and to force Joe to throw to our depleted receiving corps. When and if Pitta returns and if Stokely could get well, defenses will not be able to key on RR and BP so much.  Joe's options would be greater and our offense would be more versatile and balanced. It is obvious though that we need to throw to set up the run, not vice versa, so that we don't become one-dimensional.  I disagree that RR has been overused. My biggest concern with his play is his inability to pick up blitzers but I was encouraged today by his play except the one who he wiffed on when Joe was sacked by Malaluga's replacement. Like the OP, I was impressed by the play of several players today on the offense and the defense. Go Ravens!  

[Ravensfan23]

I don't believe rice is done theres not a lot running backs in the league that lose it at 26 years old  which is fairly still pretty young  . I just can't wait until Rice gets healthy  or atleast when we get better  run blocking from the o-line

 

While I tend to agree with you, I can also see the other side of it as well. It's not just about his age which is still fairly young as you pointed out, it's also about the ware and tear on his body. You have to remember that Ray Rice was a true work horse in college. In only 3 seasons he had a total of 910 rushing attempts. 715 of those touches came over his last 2 years. Then you add his NFL rushes 1331+191 playoff touches, that's a total of 2,432 rushes over the last 8 years and counting because this year isn't over. This doesn't even factor in his 300+ career receptions.

 

Remember Jamal Lewis was 26 years old, 6th (playing) year in his final season in Baltimore. The only difference between he and Ray Rice to this point is that the Ravens made the right bet not signing JLew long term so they could just let him walk. Jamal Lewis wasn't old when we allowed him to walk, he was just worn down. Now JLew had a lot more NFL touches then Ray, but again I think the college touches has to factor in.

 

Another alarming factor to me is Ray Rice's speech over the last 2-3 years. When Ricky was here Ray talked alot about it being great that he could save his body. When BP was drafted Ray spoke about how a dual backfield is best for him. When talks began this past offseason about BP taking touches away from Rice, he again said how that would be best for him because it'll allow him to save his body and stay fresh. That's not the signs of a young RB in his prime to me, that's the talk of a older RB knowing he doesn't have many years left and he wants to get the most out of every one.

 

I'd love nothing more then to see Ray get healthy and get back to the 27 we all know and love, but the reality is, there are a lot of signs that point to Ray slowing down tremendously. But even with all that said, I'm not ready to give up on him yet.

[Ravensfan23]

Oh and I'd definitely shout out both Art Jones and Upshaw. Those two guys do so much dirty work for this defense and both are having really strong seasons that seem to go unnoticed at times. Especially Upshaw.

[rmw10]

While ... yet.

 

Exactly what you said.  The issue is, what do you do with him if he truly is done?  While Pierce isn't having the best year, he showed some signs today.  With that being said, can he handle a full workload?  He always seems to be gimpy or something.  Do we go with Bernard Scott?  I like what he offered in Cinci, but I'm not sure if that's a full time thing.  We're really in a terrible spot when it comes to the running game.

[jazz1988]

If he's not 100%, then he shouldn't say it.  When he says he's 100%, people expect that he's 100%.  If this is Rice at the 100% he says he is, then he's absolutely done.  And if he's not 100%, get him off the field.  It's clearly that a whatever% Ray Rice may actually be is not helping us.  Even before the injury though, he didn't look any better.

 

And as for usage, another thing you have to look at is when he entered the NFL.  He was drafted at age 21.  He got a huge workload in college at 19-20.  Add it up, and that's 6-7 years of hard usage.  Age doesn't determine everything.  There may have been plenty of RB's that last until the average 28-29 years old, but they may have been drafted at 24 and didn't get heavy usage in college until age 22 or so.  Age is just a number.  Usage is the issue.  Off the top of my head, I can't think of any RB that has been used as hard as he has that has lasted.

 

I just added up the total  rushng attempts that he had in college which was overall 910   its not quite the same number( some are close or more) but   Steven Jackson had 743 Adrian Peteron had 747, Thomas jones had 809 , Adrian Peterson  had 747 , tony dorsett  had  1,163, and  emmit smith had 700.

 

I know some of the running backs I listed didn't have a totally of 910 rushing attempts or more but  their attempts are still high and they all had productive careers longer than six years  ( Peterson is still going but Jackson has been hurt this season). I still can understand  that ray rice may be declining to a certain extent but just because he was used a lot in college doesn't mean(atlest not always)  he will decline faster. I think Tony Dorsett  prove that( im sure other backs in the league did as well) its possible to have a long successful career as a running back even if you were used in college alot.

[rmw10]

I just added up the total  rushng attempts that he had in college which was overall 910   its not quite the same number( some are close or more) but   Steven Jackson had 743 Adrian Peteron had 747, Thomas jones had 809 , Adrian Peterson  had 747 , tony dorsett  had  1,163, and  emmit smith had 700.

 

I know some of the running backs I listed didn't have a totally of 910 rushing attempts or more but  their attempts are still high and they all had productive careers longer than six years  ( Peterson is still going but Jackson has been hurt this season). I still can understand  that ray rice may be declining to a certain extent but just because he was used a lot in college doesn't mean   he will decline faster I think Tony Dorsett that( im sure other backs in the league did as well) but I still can understand your method.

 

But you're looking at a couple of the best RB's that have played, and all of which that have a completely different skill set than Rice.  Rice's value comes in his ability to get in the open field, make people miss, and explode.  If he doesn't have that, he has nothing.  That's the first thing to go Guys like AP, Jackson, etc. that you mentioned were/are all great players in their prime, but they have longevity because their skill set isn't 100% reliant on speed and such.  All of those guys have power that still keeps them going.

[Ravensfan23]

Exactly what you said.  The issue is, what do you do with him if he truly is done?  While Pierce isn't having the best year, he showed some signs today.  With that being said, can he handle a full workload?  He always seems to be gimpy or something.  Do we go with Bernard Scott?  I like what he offered in Cinci, but I'm not sure if that's a full time thing.  We're really in a terrible spot when it comes to the running game.

 

As for this year we are in a tight spot. But if I had to suggest, I'd say activate Scott and give BP more rushing attempts. The common thought on Rice is that you gotta give him touches even if it's not working and eventually he'll pop. In reality it's BP that needs to get those 12-17 touches because he gets stronger as the game goes, plus defenders wear down which leads to broken arm tackles.

 

I'd give BP more touches in the run game. I;d allow Scott to have spot duty as the 3rd back, assuming he's up to speed with the scheme.

 

I wouldn't complete go away from Ray obviously. But I would have him in more of a 3rd down back role. The good thing about this is that which the Ravens using much more 3 wide sets, it wouldn't be so obvious. It'd use Ray in many more pass routes and his the short passing game to him as an extension of the run game. He'd be my Darren Sproles type but obviously with a longer role in the run game once BP softened them up.

[Gordo52]

I still believe in Rice. Maybe not this season but I'm not ready to say he's done.

[ravensfan520]

I wish that we could trade him... cap wise because their are some very good backs coming in next years draft.

[GrimCoconut]

I don't expect ray rice to come out and say he's  not 100%. Players say they are 100% al l the time and  are really not . I'm sure there has been running backs in the league that have been used a ton in college  and still have a very solid long career .

He's not on the injury report, however, so how much are his injuries impacting him if he is injured? Not being sarcastic nor rhetorical.