Flop or Float?

[redrum52]

I haven't given up faith, and even before the bye I considered this.  I've seen it brought up, but didn't see a thread so was just wondering, while also trying to change the mood.  I would like to see the team go on to win, make playoffs and repeat.  At the same time, there is a part of me that wants to see what Ozzie could do with a top 5-10 talent in the draft.  You shouldn't wish failure on your team, but with how our picks have turned out the past few years, age becoming a factor for some and talent becoming FAs, wouldn't it be nice to pick up sure fire talent? 

 

  Each pick we've essentially had for the past few years has been a round behind.  By that I mean, we are picking at the end of each round because of the teams success and Ozzie isn't the type to trade up.  So instead of trading up, just do bad.  One bad season and the team is back in the thick of things with big contracts coming off the books in 2 years.  I get the team having pride and it's a bad thing to lose on purpose, fans upset and could lose players mentally, but I think with the ring from last year and how hard they do practice, they would come back with a fire next year if they did take that approach.  Before you shoot down the idea, realize how many people are FA's next year and what could be replaced by trading back with how early we would be selecting if the team decided to tank.

 

  Another benefit to not being in the post season is we are also allowed to speak to other coaches earlier when they are fired.  I know you can talk to coaches when they are done, but I feel a team is more inclined to when they're not still playing.  Would send a bad message to the current staff.  I have a lot of problems with the way this team is performing and don't think it's due to lack of talent.  Joe isn't as bad as he's looked and neither are the o-line or defense.  I feel most of the problems the team is experiencing right now is due to coaching and scheme.

[da vegas raven]

Questioning is I should steal the "in before the neg" post for this one...welp you only live once, in before the neg

[dhstandard]

If we lose tomorrow we can kiss our playoff hopes goodbye.  If we do end up losing then I wouldn't mind getting a high draft pick.  With that said, I hope we win, and if we do, I hope we make the playoffs.  

 

We are starting to see a turnover in the league.  Lots of playoff teams in the past are tanking while some surprising teams are making runs.  This is expected considering years of success generally means finding the best players from the bottom of the barrel. 

 

Success means nothing.  We haven't even gained a shard of respect despite winning a Super Bowl last season.  I wouldn't hope for failure, but a part of me wants to get a superstar draft pick high in the first round.  This is definitely the year to do it looking at the talent available.

[Moderator 3]

The league is designed for all teams to go 8-8...it's called parity. We beat the odds for years and are paying the price for it now. The better our front office stocks our roster, the more players we have to lose to free agency due to the salary cap. The more games we win, the less our future chances as "bad" teams get first crack at the best talent in the draft.

[Ravensfanspls]

The league is designed for all teams to go 8-8...it's called parity. We beat the odds for years and are paying the price for it now. The better our front office stocks our roster, the more players we have to lose to free agency due to the salary cap. The more games we win, the less our future chances as "bad" teams get first crack at the best talent in the draft.

You are right to some extent. But it is all about having a franchise QB w/o that doesn't matter how much talent you accumulate. Just look at the browns, raiders, cardinals etc. That being said if we don't win today are playoffs chances really do look bad. We have back our selves into a wall and are in a must win game. I seriously can't see this team having all theses issues through out the entire season hopefully some of them stop today. And if they don't we seriously need to take a look at every position at every level.

[Jokerraven]

sometimes I think people forget who we have as a general manager .we could get the number one pick and Ozzie will trade back for more picks . I don't see any self respecting player of the ravens tanking the season .I said this before players have performance bonuses in there contracts so do coaches that's allot of money to throw down the toilet for one player/draft pick  .

[Poes Crows]

sometimes I think people forget who we have as a general manager .we could get the number one pick and Ozzie will trade back for more picks . I don't see any self respecting player of the ravens tanking the season .I said this before players have performance bonuses in there contracts so do coaches that's allot of money to throw down the toilet for one player/draft pick  .

You don't ask your guys to not play hard.

 

You play 2nd and 3rd string guys to see what you have.  If you win you know you got something. If you lose you're working towards the pick.

 

The problem is the Coach and G.M. don't want to finish 5-11 or 6-10. It redounds to their detriment. It eats away at their percentage and perception.  Harbaugh could not have walked into a better gig. Now the real evaluation begins, because they pulled his team out from under him.

 

Go for it on 4th down John........Go for it!!!!

[PeRK82]

I haven't given up faith, and even before the bye I considered this.  I've seen it brought up, but didn't see a thread so was just wondering, while also trying to change the mood.  I would like to see the team go on to win, make playoffs and repeat.  At the same time, there is a part of me that wants to see what Ozzie could do with a top 5-10 talent in the draft.  You shouldn't wish failure on your team, but with how our picks have turned out the past few years, age becoming a factor for some and talent becoming FAs, wouldn't it be nice to pick up sure fire talent? 

 

  Each pick we've essentially had for the past few years has been a round behind.  By that I mean, we are picking at the end of each round because of the teams success and Ozzie isn't the type to trade up.  So instead of trading up, just do bad.  One bad season and the team is back in the thick of things with big contracts coming off the books in 2 years.  I get the team having pride and it's a bad thing to lose on purpose, fans upset and could lose players mentally, but I think with the ring from last year and how hard they do practice, they would come back with a fire next year if they did take that approach.  Before you shoot down the idea, realize how many people are FA's next year and what could be replaced by trading back with how early we would be selecting if the team decided to tank.

 

  Another benefit to not being in the post season is we are also allowed to speak to other coaches earlier when they are fired.  I know you can talk to coaches when they are done, but I feel a team is more inclined to when they're not still playing.  Would send a bad message to the current staff.  I have a lot of problems with the way this team is performing and don't think it's due to lack of talent.  Joe isn't as bad as he's looked and neither are the o-line or defense.  I feel most of the problems the team is experiencing right now is due to coaching and scheme.

 

 

Doubtful, but id rather get to the play off.

 

Kinda sick of seeing, the whole " OZZIE CAN DO NO WRONG " because to me, thats all he has done with these number 1 draft picks in the last few yrs.

 

Who was the last Number 1 pick that worked out aside from FLACCO  in the last 10yrs or so. The last person i can think of is NGATA And SUGGS.

[Ravenseconbeast]

Theres teams that flop every year to get great draft picks. I'd rather not be one of those teams. You can go ahead and join em if you enjoy drafts more than the real games themselves.

[Tank 92]

Theres teams that flop every year to get great draft picks. I'd rather not be one of those teams. You can go ahead and join em if you enjoy drafts more than the real games themselves.

 

 

You are a tough read........ great post.

[PeRK82]

Theres teams that flop every year to get great draft picks. I'd rather not be one of those teams. You can go ahead and join em if you enjoy drafts more than the real games themselves.

Agreed,  we dont want to become the RAIDERS And BROWNS

[redrum52]

I find it funny the guy who said in before the neg got negged anyway.  Bengals, Browns, Seahawks, Niners, Chiefs, Broncos.. US.  All these teams have gone through bad spells, then accumulating high picks and building teams throughout.  The difference between the ones winning and losing is having found a qb they can rely upon.  I said I don't encourage losing and would like to see the team win, though, I wouldn't mind seeing what Ozzie can do with a top pick.  There are obvious coaching flaws on display year as well and to be honest, have been on display since Harbaugh got here.  Still don't manage the clock well and still have no consistency on offense.  The difference now is we don't have a defense that can always be relied upon. 

 

Whatever, was out to hear peoples opinions  anyway.  Hope we can pull out a win.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

I haven't given up faith, and even before the bye I considered this.  I've seen it brought up, but didn't see a thread so was just wondering, while also trying to change the mood.  I would like to see the team go on to win, make playoffs and repeat.  At the same time, there is a part of me that wants to see what Ozzie could do with a top 5-10 talent in the draft.  You shouldn't wish failure on your team, but with how our picks have turned out the past few years, age becoming a factor for some and talent becoming FAs, wouldn't it be nice to pick up sure fire talent? 
 
  Each pick we've essentially had for the past few years has been a round behind.  By that I mean, we are picking at the end of each round because of the teams success and Ozzie isn't the type to trade up.  So instead of trading up, just do bad.  One bad season and the team is back in the thick of things with big contracts coming off the books in 2 years.  I get the team having pride and it's a bad thing to lose on purpose, fans upset and could lose players mentally, but I think with the ring from last year and how hard they do practice, they would come back with a fire next year if they did take that approach.  Before you shoot down the idea, realize how many people are FA's next year and what could be replaced by trading back with how early we would be selecting if the team decided to tank.
 
  Another benefit to not being in the post season is we are also allowed to speak to other coaches earlier when they are fired.  I know you can talk to coaches when they are done, but I feel a team is more inclined to when they're not still playing.  Would send a bad message to the current staff.  I have a lot of problems with the way this team is performing and don't think it's due to lack of talent.  Joe isn't as bad as he's looked and neither are the o-line or defense.  I feel most of the problems the team is experiencing right now is due to coaching and scheme.

The majority of your post is about tanking to get talent in the draft.

Yet your final statement is - the talent is there, coaching and scheme are the issue.

I guess I'm missing how top draft picks changes coaches or scheme.

[The Raven]

We're floating, but we're not quite swimming yet. 

[redrum52]

The majority of your post is about tanking to get talent in the draft.

Yet your final statement is - the talent is there, coaching and scheme are the issue.

I guess I'm missing how top draft picks changes coaches or scheme.

We have needs and positions to replace.  Ohers contract is up, Ngata is up there and we could use another NT.  We have corners, but could use more.  We will only have an undrafted TE signed after this season.    We could use a center and Daryl Smith I think is only signed for this year.  With tanking ALL our picks are moved up, usually meaning a better talent pool to draft from.  Just cause you have talent doesn't mean you don't keep adding.  I'm from the school of thought that if you're not getting better, you're getting worse. That's the "talent" aspect I was going for.  

 

The tanking is you have more opportunities to meet with coaches since you're not gameplanning for you post season life.    It's also harder to mess up as a coach with the better your players are.  Every year numerous coaches in bad situations get fired.  Maybe guys who were in over their head, head coaching, but excel at teaching or implementing schemes.  As bad our o line has looked, I refuse to believe losing Matt Birk is the only reason our line is so GOD AWFUL.  With the pieces on defense, maybe I'm just being blinded by purple shades, but I think the pieces on defense should have us in the top 5-7 range.  

 

When you combine both you get the team we should have which is a dominant all around team.  I honestly don't why we can't be top 10 in both offense and defense.

[BloodRaven]

I hate quitters.

[redrum52]

Bump.  

 

 

Yes, chance to still make playoffs.  We have a good team talent wise I feel.  The positioning we could get in the draft could seal up holes for years with just a few picks.  I'd love to keep the streak alive, but my thinking is this will help more in the long term, while winning now will only serve for the short.

[The Raven]

Flop and sinking.

[SizzleSuggs55]

Who knows what could happen this year with so many bad AFC teams. It's ridiculous talking about getting a high draft pick at this point. What we need to due is reduce some of our seriously inflated contracts. Too much money locked in to a small amount of players. One player is not going to change a whole team. Great players are found all over not just at the top of draft rounds. Look at Wilkerson..

[Guest Mr. Nobody]

The league is designed for all teams to go 8-8...it's called parity. We beat the odds for years and are paying the price for it now. The better our front office stocks our roster, the more players we have to lose to free agency due to the salary cap. The more games we win, the less our future chances as "bad" teams get first crack at the best talent in the draft.

indeed, not many look at how well we played the odds in these last five seasons, just hope we'll beat them again this season

 

I hate quitters.

will probably never understand why somebody won't want their team to win every game; the draft is a big lottery anyway; i'd rather support a team that always tries to win it and never give up than dream of a higher draft choice 

[Gordo52]

The question is,

What's Important Now?

[JEEPercreepermd]

sometimes I think people forget who we have as a general manager .we could get the number one pick and Ozzie will trade back for more picks . I don't see any self respecting player of the ravens tanking the season .I said this before players have performance bonuses in there contracts so do coaches that's allot of money to throw down the toilet for one player/draft pick .

I think thats a bit of a stretch. Let me explain why Ozzie regularly trades out of the 1st round.

Ok lets say we are picking 28th in the 1st round. Ozzie looks at the board and John Doe, DT from Alabama is still available. He also knows that none of the remaining teams are interested in that player, they trade back for a high 2nd round pick, and high 3rd or 4th, he gets that same 1st round talent in the 2nd round, then he has two picks in the next rounds two fill needs with quality players.
Its all about value. Why take one player that may be only slightly better than the 3 other players you COULD draft instead..and not have to give any of them big money.

[Jokerraven]

I think thats a bit of a stretch. Let me explain why Ozzie regularly trades out of the 1st round.

Ok lets say we are picking 28th in the 1st round. Ozzie looks at the board and John Doe, DT from Alabama is still available. He also knows that none of the remaining teams are interested in that player, they trade back for a high 2nd round pick, and high 3rd or 4th, he gets that same 1st round talent in the 2nd round, then he has two picks in the next rounds two fill needs with quality players.
Its all about value. Why take one player that may be only slightly better than the 3 other players you COULD draft instead..and not have to give any of them big money.

I agree with you to a point . I still don't see this team tanking the season .I get why Ozzie picks like he does but wouldn't for once it be fun to get the next Calvin Johnson or a beast Lt or Ngata's replacement (no I don't think Cody is it ).

[runamuk]

Here comes the homer ravens fan. Even though our team looks horrible and plays like pop warner . YES I still believe we can make it to the playoffs , we probably need Callahan to do the math LOL but hey football isn't meant to be easy and I think we can do it .

[Tank 92]

Here comes the homer ravens fan. Even though our team looks horrible and plays like pop warner . YES I still believe we can make it to the playoffs , we probably need Callahan to do the math LOL but hey football isn't meant to be easy and I think we can do it .

 

 

I think you can pretty much throw out the math this year. Mediocrity abounds throughout the NFL and you have a bunch of teams with losing records fighting for a PO spot. Rising prices for skill players combined with the cap has had the effect that the NFL wanted, "parity". Add in the practice restrictions put in place via the new CBA and you have a lot of bad football being played.

 

Inexperience and mental lapses have killed the Ravens in pressure situations this year. Unbelievably, we still have a real chance to get into the POs. Maybe playing in all of these close games improves the mental toughness of this Team and we go on some sort of a run. it may be a stretch, but it's a real possibility.

 

LOL at the people asking for the team to purposely tank the season for draft position. That's not the way you develop a winner. If you accept losing, you become a consistent loser.

[runamuk]

I think you can pretty much throw out the math this year. Mediocrity abounds throughout the NFL and you have a bunch of teams with losing records fighting for a PO spot. Rising prices for skill players combined with the cap has had the effect that the NFL wanted, "parity". Add in the practice restrictions put in place via the new CBA and you have a lot of bad football being played.
 
Inexperience and mental lapses have killed the Ravens in pressure situations this year. Unbelievably, we still have a real chance to get into the POs. Maybe playing in all of these close games improves the mental toughness of this Team and we go on some sort of a run. it may be a stretch, but it's a real possibility.
 
LOL at the people asking for the team to purposely tank the season for draft position. That's not the way you develop a winner. If you accept losing, you become a consistent loser.

I will never give up on this team .I won't make excuses but I bet we see 6 straight to the playoffs then anything can happen

[Tank 92]

I will never give up on this team .I won't make excuses but I bet we see 6 straight to the playoffs then anything can happen

 

 

I like it!!!

 

Go :argdancingravensblueonwkk8:

[jdynamite]

The honest fact is we all want & would like for The Ravens to make the playoffs and they still have a chance at 4-6 to get a wildcard birth.

I'd prefer to either make the playoffs or finish 6-10 ( beating Pittsburgh and New England in the process).
I'd don't like the idea of finishing 7-9 or 8-8 miss the playoffs and still not have a top 15 pick. ( just makes me think of the mediocrity that is the Dallas cowboys and how their fans be happy to finish 8-8 because it's not a losing season ) nonsense.

[edreedfromtheu]

The league is designed for all teams to go 8-8...it's called parity. We beat the odds for years and are paying the price for it now. The better our front office stocks our roster, the more players we have to lose to free agency due to the salary cap. The more games we win, the less our future chances as "bad" teams get first crack at the best talent in the draft.

Bad teams don't get the first crack at good players if the good teams are smart enough to trade highly overrated players for high draft picks.  Rememeber recent trades of a 1st and 3rd round pick for a pretty big-name player who wasn't nearly as good as his name?

Just imagine the draft picks the Ravens COULD have gotten for Ray Rice or Joe Flacco before this year.  And instead of trading Boldin for a 7th round pick to the 49ers.... I'm sure almost any other team would have taken a veteran receiver that just went on that crazy Super Bowl run and given more than a 7th.  So we're helping out Harbaugh's family now at the cost of the team?  That's nice.

[edreedfromtheu]

The honest fact is we all want & would like for The Ravens to make the playoffs and they still have a chance at 4-6 to get a wildcard birth.

I'd prefer to either make the playoffs or finish 6-10 ( beating Pittsburgh and New England in the process).
I'd don't like the idea of finishing 7-9 or 8-8 miss the playoffs and still not have a top 15 pick. ( just makes me think of the mediocrity that is the Dallas cowboys and how their fans be happy to finish 8-8 because it's not a losing season ) nonsense.

I guess the real benefit to losing this season would be not having to play the top teams like the Broncos/Patriots/Indianapolis next year.  Obviously we'll play one of them, but not all of them.

Still a very good chance for the Ravens to lose 3 or 4 more games.  Sure, they could end up winning out too.  But I think they will end up disappointing you and ending up right around 8-8, exactly in that Dallas Cowboys area of execution.  I suppose since the rest of the division is not that good.... the Ravens could get in on some ridiculous 3-team tiebreaker.  I'm hoping for all 4 teams to end up tied just for fun.