It's the Confusemant !

[billick]

The Baltimore Ravens have always been a first class organization, top to bottom.  NFL free agents

come to Baltimore just to be Ravens. The image is real, not just to chronic homers.

 

To me, the 3-4 record is not the real problem.

 

The only reason franchises flounder is poor drafting. We are floundering, more so than our record indicates. It is not one player, call, coach, or draft pick.

 

We appear to be adrift on the NFL high seas, a Super Bowl winner, and so on and so forth. This post

is not a history lesson. We are all aware of the proud history of this franchise.

 

However, their now appears too be a revolving door on The Castle. Players coming and going, Coaches coming and not going yet.

 

What happened to the stability of the Ravens ?

[PolishRifle]

We had to replace a alot of players, some of them, like Lewis or Reed for example, were the foundation this team was build on. Refocusing the whole team, going through tough changes and finding good players to fill the void 8 starters left behind is hard to do.

No other championship team had to go through a transformation process like this before. We're doing just fine all things considered, imho.

 

At worst this team is one decent draft away from being SB contenders again.

[GrimCoconut]

What's the point of this thread? I'm not being sarcastic. I genuinely don't know where you're going with this.

[rlh445]

What's the point of this thread? I'm not being sarcastic. I genuinely don't know where you're going with this.

 

I'm still wondering what, 'confusemant' means.  I mean Google is a couple of keyboard punches away, but I'd rather hear it here.  I love suspense.

[TDubbs]

NFL = Players coming and going lol. Players go for the money the second they can cause you may get injured at any point. 

 

Ozzie Newsome - Eric Decosta - John Harbaugh = Stability 

[rmw10]

I'm still wondering what, 'confusemant' means. I mean Google is a couple of keyboard punches away, but I'd rather hear it here. I love suspense.

Probably because everyone that reads this thread is confused.

[NFLfan123]

NFL stands for Not For Long

[SecretAgentMan]

What's the point of this thread? I'm not being sarcastic. I genuinely don't know where you're going with this.

This is the dreaded "Ozzie isn't good enough" thread

[Natural Born Hitters]

This is the dreaded "Ozzie isn't good enough" thread

Well to be fair, it is Ozzies turn in the blame game, right? ;)

[theFRANCHISE]

While it's true that the front office hasn't hit on a megastar draft pick since Joe Flacco and Ray Rice (maybe Torrey Smith is next?), many teams aren't fortunate enough to have had the consistent success this team has had.

 

Just because every pick doesn't turn out to be a Pro Bowler or MVP, doesn't mean they're necessarily bad drafts. We just look back on past draft classes with purple-tinted glasses because of the number of immediate, quality starters that were produced.

 

Keep in mind, though, you still need backups, and this team has consistently yielded decent depth at most (not all) positions.

[edthehead]

huh ,,,,,,,,,,,, 

[Guest Omerta]

One reason is we have a franchise guy at QB. This is not to bash Flacco by any means, the man brought another Lombardi Trophy back, he deserved what he got.

 

That said his cap number is about to balloon and we have had to look to the future and go with some young guys and not hand out those mega contracts that will hit their teeth the same time as flaccos, such as Ellerbe, Kruger, and so on. We have always had the luxury of using that money on defense because the best QB we had for more than one year before Flacco was well...I am not sure, Boller maybe....

 

Now we have to even it out because we have a capable QB and you can not win with just defense anymore.

[arnie_uk]

To a point I see where you are coming from, but when both ed and ray are going out your are better to just whip the band aid of in one go than gradually. While this year was never billed As a re build year, they were prepared to let many people and shift the guard to the youth.

They made a few personnel mistakes as evidenced by in season trades, higher than normal profile cuts etc, but it had to be done

[NFLfan123]

While it's true that the front office hasn't hit on a megastar draft pick since Joe Flacco and Ray Rice (maybe Torrey Smith is next?), many teams aren't fortunate enough to have had the consistent success this team has had.

Just because every pick doesn't turn out to be a Pro Bowler or MVP, doesn't mean they're necessarily bad drafts. We just look back on past draft classes with purple-tinted glasses because of the number of immediate, quality starters that were produced.

Keep in mind, though, you still need backups, and this team has consistently yielded decent depth at most (not all) positions.

Torrey is the most underrated WR in the game IMO

[theFRANCHISE]

Torrey is the most underrated WR in the game IMO

 

He's played well in a few games this season but his game isn't complete yet. He disappears more often than I'd like, especially for a #1 WR.

[Grapple Raven]

Let me preface my statement below by first saying that I think Ozzie is one of the premiere GM's in the business, and that my comments are not to be taken as a slam on Ozzie, but just being realistic it is possible that people can make mistakes; no one is perfect all the time. Making mistakes doesn't mean someone is not effective, in fact just the opposite, making mistakes helps people learn and that leads to success.

 

In all honesty, this year has been kinda baffling when looking at personnel decisions that have been made since the end of last season.  Ozzie stated that he wasn't making the same mistake he did after the 2000 Super Bowl by trying to do whatever he could to keep that winning team together.  Personally, I think Ozzie to avoid his previous mistake has gone a little too far in the opposite direction and therefore has made another one. 

It appears this team really made personnel moves without deciding what the identity of this team would be this season.  Ozzie said at one point that he was moving this team to be more of an offensive team after the Super Bowl, and by virtue of numerous circumstances (some under his control and some not) it appears that philosophical identity changed and the result was to pour more onto the defensive side of the ball. That can be evidenced by the addition of players at mid season and the release of some players at the bye in an effort to right the ship, and deal with the cap currently and in the future.

 

I purposefully didn't go into specific personnel decisions or player names as to not start a bashing fest, lol  I really believe that Ozzie would admit, although not publicy as it should be, that this wasn't his best offseason as far as personnel decisions go.  Perhaps after our next Super Bowl, whenever that occurs and I think it will, Ozzie will find the right balance and get it "Goldilocks" right in the middle next time...a little on defense and a little on offense. Just my two cents!

[redrum52]

If this is a blame Ozzie thread let me say this, 3 out of 5 years I believe we had a team capable of winning a SB.  08, 11 and 12 were all very good teams, with the 10 team being close to me.  The problem to me isn't personnel, but sometimes scheme and coaching.  Not trying to blame the coaches, but I feel the team has been pretty stubborn at times with making necessary changes.  This team I think starts getting it's act together now. I think Harbaugh has learned to adapt and will actually do what's necessary to win games.  This season so far is both on the players and coaches.  I blame to coaches for taking to long to make in game changes, like waiting til the half to implement a winning strategy, and the players for not taking advantage when the change is made.  Not counting the Broncos game, offensive execution to me has cost us 2.5 games, with half the game being the Steelers game and the defense accounting for that other half. 

 

Ravens just need to stop coming out playing scared ball and let Joe call the shots early.  You can't preach how it's his team now, but you are afraid to put the ball in his hands.  Playing scared is keeping the offense off the field and putting the defense in continuous bad spots.  The run game hasn't been helpful, and I could be wrong, but it doesn't even seem that they're taking much time off the clock anyway.  I wouldn't be angry if the first drive was a 8 play drive leading to points, where the ball was only run once.  If we could get a lead early it would allow our defense to play to it's strength, which to me is rushing the passer now.  That's how Ozzie built the team, but to me, hasn't been able to because of these close games.  Off topic, I think run games improves with more playing for Williams and Tyson. 

 

END RANT...

[rmw10]

 

I purposefully didn't go into specific personnel decisions or player names as to not start a bashing fest, lol  I really believe that Ozzie would admit, although not publicy as it should be, that this wasn't his best offseason as far as personnel decisions go.  Perhaps after our next Super Bowl, whenever that occurs and I think it will, Ozzie will find the right balance and get it "Goldilocks" right in the middle next time...a little on defense and a little on offense. Just my two cents!

 

I can agree with this.  I trust Ozzie, and thing he has put this team on the map as one of the premier franchises in the league.  He's not perfect, and I'm okay with that.  I know not everyone can be perfect.

 

I will say, though, that I think everyone is looking at the top players and personnel decisions that are affecting this team, which I honestly don't think is the case.

 

On special teams, I think the loss of guys like Allen, Ayanbadejo, Considine, and L. Williams are affecting this team more than the big names.  I don't think any of us realized how much those guys meant to the ST units.  Not to mentions, guys like Ihedigbo and Graham are playing a lot more defense and a lot less ST now.

 

On defense, I don't see much difference.  We're probably a lot better up front, but a little worse in the secondary.  It's hard to replace someone like Reed who can shut a whole area down.  I think we'd be a lot better off if Elam was at SS and we had a true FS.  But Huff was a bust and we're forced to play Elam there now.  Otherwise, I don't see a big difference.

 

On offense is where we see the biggest issue.  I still agree with the Q decision, as Pitta was supposed to replace him.  But when he got hurt, that kind of sunk us.  Matt Birk is the biggest loss.  I think if you have to bash Ozzie for something here, it's the lack of depth.  We didn't seem prepared for the losses we did have.  Injuries have hurt us on the offensive side of the ball, but it seems that we didn't have adequate guys to step up.

 

Again, this is not a bash Ozzie post.  I think he's done very well, and his offseason moves looked very formidable at the time.  Some worked out.  Some didn't.  I really doubt he enters next year without quality depth at each position.

[ravens533]

Grapple Raven - I mostly agree with you. However, I believe that others involved in the draft and trade decisions agreed and moved forward with it. Ozzie is part of that system but by no means is he the only one involved in deciding on a player. Some things did not work out quite as planned but others have. Look at Marlon Brown, Matt Elam and Daryl Smith for example. I am sure I have not named all the successes this year. You get the point though.

[The Mom Gene]

I agree with Grapple on some, if not most, of what he said...  I think this team could be construed as suffering from an identity crisis.  When you're considering the playoffs last year, and how we won that stretch of games, it really didn't have very much at all to do with Defense. We were a powerful offense...  Passing and Running.  As a matter of point made by so many analysts, the team's defense was ranked way down on the list for the first time in the team's history.  We actually were an offensive team in the postseason last year.  Now we are all looking at all of the players that have separated from the team, and those that we picked up, we have definitely tried to re-establish ourselves, and we don't know who we are.  Torrey and Jacoby are hoping we throw the ball more, Ray and Bernard are wanting their 30 touches per game... and with the struggles that the O-line has faced... It's tough to give Joe the time to make the decision...  Not to mention losing our slot guys...  Boldin is gone...  But when Pitta went down, I'm not sure we were prepared for that... what with the chemistry Joe has with him.  The defense has had much of a similar problem with "the revolving door".

 

We are coming into the heart of the season.  One can only root root root for the home team, as that 12th man...  and have the patience in knowing that these guys can pull it all together... 

[The Mom Gene]

Confusemant???  I think it's just another way of saying...  We are a conglomerate of many different things that are confusing to the naked eye...  We have a good team...  We just haven't put all the pieces together yet... 

[easternshore97]

I'm still wondering what, 'confusemant' means.  I mean Google is a couple of keyboard punches away, but I'd rather hear it here.  I love suspense.

I take it no definition yet?

[Ragin'Raven]

Urban Dictionary defines confusement as the state of being confused and amused at the same time. Interesting.

[rmw10]

Confusemant???  I think it's just another way of saying...  We are a conglomerate of many different things that are confusing to the naked eye...  We have a good team...  We just haven't put all the pieces together yet... 

 

I'm not sure if that's what the OP was going for, but I agree with that statement.

 

There have been a lot more moving parts than normal.  Some of that is due to unfortunate incidents (i.e. Pitta) and some of that is due to a poor decision (i.e. Huff).  I don't want to say that people are expecting too much since we have the right to expect the best out of the team, but I think a lot of people are forgetting that the core is young and there's going to be a learning curve.  The talent is there.  It just has to come together.  Maybe it happens this year.  Maybe it happens next year.  Either way, I can't bash Ozzie.  Everyone is entitled to mistakes.  I'll look at the body of work, the work that led us to 5 straight playoff appearances, before I criticize him for a couple of moves that didn't work out and a series of unfortunate events.

[easternshore97]

He's played well in a few games this season but his game isn't complete yet. He disappears more often than I'd like, especially for a #1 WR.

???? Opposing defenses know he's the best WR on this team. And yet he's still on pace for 1000 yds receiving. What more do you want from him? Once the other guys are recognized as threats, defenses will be forced to at least think about adjusting coverage on him??? Or am I blowing smoke?

 

Personally, I think Ozzie to avoid his previous mistake has gone a little too far in the opposite direction and therefore has made another one. 

 

I agree if you think he should have brought back Considine, BA, and Anthony Allen. Otherwise, it might be overblown (see my comments below). Definitely there was some disconnect on the guys that were cut and the guys that made the team.

 

I will say, though, that I think everyone is looking at the top players and personnel decisions that are affecting this team, which I honestly don't think is the case.

On defense, I don't see much difference.  We're probably a lot better up front, but a little worse in the secondary.  It's hard to replace someone like Reed who can shut a whole area down.  I think we'd be a lot better off if Elam was at SS and we had a true FS.  But Huff was a bust and we're forced to play Elam there now.  Otherwise, I don't see a big difference.

 

 

THANK YOU on your first point!!!! Reed went elsewhere and we all predicted his performance would be what it is now. And we knew he was going elsewhere. Birk and Ray retired. People on aggregate were indifferent on Cary Williams...probably same for Pollard...I actually liked Pollard. Who was expecting Ravens to pay top dollar to Ellerbe and Kruger?!

 

RE: the defense, I'm one of the main people that stresses that 51% of the time stats don't tell the right story, but for what it's worth here's how that unit stacks up

- PPG - 16.5 (3rd)

- Total YPG - 340 (7th)

- Pass YPG - 204 (4th)

- Pass TD - 4 (1st)

- Sacks - 22 (7th)

 

RE: Ed Reed, it's not that big of a deal. It's not like there are only 12 teams in the NFL that lack a superior safety. There are 32 teams in the league and 31 other teams did not have an Ed Reed last year. Who else is out there that we think would be able to have the same impact as Reed? Could we afford that person?

[rmw10]

 

THANK YOU on your first point!!!! Reed went elsewhere and we all predicted his performance would be what it is now. And we knew he was going elsewhere. Birk and Ray retired. People on aggregate were indifferent on Cary Williams...probably same for Pollard...I actually liked Pollard. Who was expecting Ravens to pay top dollar to Ellerbe and Kruger?!

 

RE: Ed Reed, it's not that big of a deal. It's not like there are only 12 teams in the NFL that lack a superior safety. There are 32 teams in the league and 31 other teams did not have an Ed Reed last year. Who else is out there that we think would be able to have the same impact as Reed? Could we afford that person?

 

On Reed, I know he's been playing absolutely terrible with the Texans.  I was looking more at the respect thing in the fact that he commands it, despite his declining performance.  QB's have to look for him at all times.  With Elam, that isn't necessarily the case.  He hasn't demanded that respect.  That's not something that's easily replaceable.

 

And like you said, all of our losses except for Pollard had everything to do with money.  Reed wasn't worth what he got.  Kruger wasn't worth what he got.  Ellerbe wasn't worth what he got.  Williams wasn't worth what he got.  Pollard is the only one that is gone for (what we assume) a different reason, and I'd say Ihedigbo is giving us the same, if not better.  There's obviously nothing we could do about Ray and Birk retiring.

 

A lot of people are going to point to Boldin as well, but as I said many times before, he changes nothing on this team as long as the OL is struggling.  Even with an adequate OL, I still don't think Boldin is that big of a loss.  Obviously I'd rather have him than not have him, but money played a big part, and we've replaced his production with younger and cheaper options.  Maybe Ozzie knew this was going to be more of a transitional year and decided that it was best to get the young guys some experience?  Who knows?  Either way, all of these guys are gone.  People have to get over it.  What's done is done.  Dwelling on it isn't going to change anything.

[easternshore97]

I'm not sure if that's what the OP was going for, but I agree with that statement.

 

There have been a lot more moving parts than normal.  Some of that is due to unfortunate incidents (i.e. Pitta) and some of that is due to a poor decision (i.e. Huff).  I don't want to say that people are expecting too much since we have the right to expect the best out of the team, but I think a lot of people are forgetting that the core is young and there's going to be a learning curve.  The talent is there.  It just has to come together.  Maybe it happens this year.  Maybe it happens next year.  Either way, I can't bash Ozzie.  Everyone is entitled to mistakes.  I'll look at the body of work, the work that led us to 5 straight playoff appearances, before I criticize him for a couple of moves that didn't work out and a series of unfortunate events.

A whole lotta THIS!!!!

 

But also, I think people just like to don their purple goggles all the time. The team that had been together for 5 seasons and ended up 10-6 last season could have very well been 7-9 when you think about the KC, Dallas, and Sandy game. Perhaps it could have ended 8-8 since going into week 17 hypothetically at 7-8, they would have played to win @ Cincy.

 

All that is not that relevant, but when you think about veterans being replaced by/rookies, it's hard for me to have super high expectations for a team that was no where near flawless last year

[easternshore97]

On Reed, I know he's been playing absolutely terrible with the Texans.  I was looking more at the respect thing in the fact that he commands it, despite his declining performance.  QB's have to look for him at all times.  With Elam, that isn't necessarily the case.  He hasn't demanded that respect.  That's not something that's easily replaceable.

 

I don't disagree. But at some point in 2013, the younger QBs like the Staffords and Rodgers and Cutlers (assuming he's back) were going to stop respecting his past performance.

 

Remember that when Reed made plays pre 2004, QBs still went his direction. That's how he won DPOY in 2004 because QBs wouldn't stop going in his vicinity. After that, some still challenged him.

 

Offenses will give you a chance to be DPOY. In fact - they will keep coming at you (i.e. last year when Ravens [and other NFL teams] kept throwing to JJ Watts side) so I don't think it's a bad thing that Elam hasn't earned respect just yet if you follow me....these challenges are valuable reps for his future playmaking. He'll get sick of himself when he's watching tape on Mondays and then he'll fix it starting in March (if not week 9)

[rmw10]

I don't disagree. But at some point, the younger QBs like the Staffords and Rodgers and Cutlers (assuming he's back) were at some point going to stop respecting his past performance in 2013.

 

Remember that when Reed made plays pre 2004, QBs still went his direction. That's how he won DPOY in 2004 because QBs wouldn't stop going in his vicinity. After that, some still challenged him.

 

Offenses will give you a chance to be DPOY. In fact - they will keep coming at you (i.e. last year when Ravens [and other NFL teams] kept throwing to JJ Watts side) so I don't think it's a bad thing that Elam hasn't earned respect just yet if you follow me....these challenges are valuable reps for him

 

Oh yeah I agree.  But going off of one of my posts you quoted, that's what people are expecting.  People are expecting Elam to come in and shut down a side of the field from day 1.  It's unrealistic.  That's more what I was trying to say.

 

I'm not saying we miss Reed's play at all, more that it's hard to replace what he'd given us for so many years.

[easternshore97]

Oh yeah I agree.  But going off of one of my posts you quoted, that's what people are expecting.  People are expecting Elam to come in and shut down a side of the field from day 1.  It's unrealistic.  That's more what I was trying to say.

 

I'm not saying we miss Reed's play at all, more that it's hard to replace what he'd given us for so many years.

GOT-cha