John Harbaugh Receiving Too Much Blame?

[frozen joe flacco fan]

Wow, Trestmen has an nfl pedigree but this is his first HC stint in nfl he ranks higher in 8 weeks of football???
Marvin Lewis - has had plenty of talent in Cincy now for years and can't win a playoff game.
Jason Garrett -really? As an OC he's ok.

While I completely understand the John Gruden analogy of taking Tony D team for a victory lets not forget that Gruden's Raiders were one tuck rule from the Super Bowl and then his same Raider team he left for (fired )Tampa made it to the superbowl also. So if Gruden can't get credit for Tampas Super Bowl roster ( dungy's guys) can he get some credit for raiders roster that also made it?? Two sides to that coin there!

I don't think you are giving John Harbaugh any credit man. This team hasn't accidentally made the playoffs consistently in spite of him. I could understand this frame of thinking if we performed like the Cowboys yearly having numerous pro Bowl players, the talented & potential labels throw at them yet underperforms to the point of mediocrity.

 

Yeh, you're right! Take Jason Garrett off the list and insert Detroit's head coach or Arizona's. Just where do you think Coach Harbaugh is on the list? There are 32 coaches. Is he in the top 5, top 10, top half or bottom half.  Remember though, Jason Garrett was the owner's 1st choice ahead of Harbaugh. 

[jimjim5]

Remember though, Jason Garrett was the owner's 1st choice ahead of Harbaugh.

So does that make Garrett or any other coach a better coach? The Ravens lucked up with Garrett choosing Dallas. Man, your logic is flawed.

[gabefergy]

Get used to it son! You'll hear a lot more whining before its all over. Of the Baltimore TEs I mentioned only one may be a future HOFer. That would be Dallas Clark. Pitta's OK but not a gamechanger.

Lol ok. Go ahead and whine just don't get butthurt when you get called out for being a bad fan.

[RavensAllTheWay]

Why do some people only hold Harbs responsible for the people we got rid of?  There was no way we could've kept Boldin, and yet some people say there was easily enough money for it.  Please.  Marlon/Tandon combined have nearly outproduced Boldin so far this year anyway, and that's with each of them missing a game.  And they're much younger.  Why Does Harbs not get any credit for bringing them in/bringing them back (Doss)?  Why does he not get credit for bringing in Daryl Smith, who is an unquestionable upgrade over Ellerbe?  Even guys we brought in like Corey Graham have made timely plays if nothing else (2 picks in the DEN playoff game).  

 

People think that as soon as Lewis and Reed left, that was when the official Harbaugh era began.  Like he had nothing to do with any personnel decisions at all before those guys left.  Like there were no "Harbaugh guys" that were brought in between 2008-12.  And for people who think it was a mistake by shipping off Boldin and Pollard, why then does he not get any credit for bringing them in in the first place?  Why is bringing them in all Ozzie and shipping them off all Harbs???

 

He AND Ozzie have brought in guys who have helped us win.  That can't be disputed.  The HC and GM on this team both have say in who we bring in.  You can't twist the story so that it's always convenient for you.

 

This year, we brought in more FAs than usual, and patched up a receiving core and TE core on the fly because we had no choice.  The chemistry on this team is not there right now, more so defensively.  The defense is undeniably more talented than last year, and much deeper along the front 7, but with so many new faces, we haven't gelled.  So even though I picked us to beat GB/BUF/PIT, I'm honestly not surprised that we're 3-4.  But looking at our schedule, we could and quite frankly should go on a run, especially since we've historically been great coming off of a bye.

[The Raven]

Get used to it son! You'll hear a lot more whining before its all over.  Of the Baltimore TEs I mentioned only one may be a future HOFer. That would be Dallas Clark. Pitta's OK but not a gamechanger.

 

Lmao. Obviously, he is a gamechanger because our game got a lot worse when he got hurt. Pitta was easily going to be our second best receiving threat this year, and our go to guy on third down .

[jdynamite]

Yeh, you're right! Take Jason Garrett off the list and insert Detroit's head coach or Arizona's. Just where do you think Coach Harbaugh is on the list? There are 32 coaches. Is he in the top 5, top 10, top half or bottom half. Remember though, Jason Garrett was the owner's 1st choice ahead of Harbaugh.

Ummm ok Jason garret was his choice and at time Rex Ryan was my personal favorite! But that's neither here nor there lol.

Where to does Harbaugh fit in. Top 10..
Tier 1:
Belichick, S.Payton, Tomlin, A.Reid, M.Mccarthy,
Tier 2:
John Harbaugh, Jim Harbaugh, P.Carroll, *T.Coughlin, *J.Fisher

* Coughlin for me is tough to place yes he has 2 superbowls, but his team is inconsistent year to year and even the 2 Super Bowl years they struggled and got hot. If the giants had a string of double digit win seasons in a row then Coughlin would probably bump McCarthy down.
* Jeff fisher is out of respect for previous coaching history.
I feel like Coughlin and Fisher could both very easily be mike Shanahan in 2 years living off the past while hoping to recreate some magic.

[OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL]

Why do some people only hold Harbs responsible for the people we got rid of?  There was no way we could've kept Boldin, and yet some people say there was easily enough money for it.  Please.  Marlon/Tandon combined have nearly outproduced Boldin so far this year anyway, and that's with each of them missing a game.  And they're much younger.  Why Does Harbs not get any credit for bringing them in/bringing them back (Doss)?  Why does he not get credit for bringing in Daryl Smith, who is an unquestionable upgrade over Ellerbe?  Even guys we brought in like Corey Graham have made timely plays if nothing else (2 picks in the DEN playoff game).  
 
People think that as soon as Lewis and Reed left, that was when the official Harbaugh era began.  Like he had nothing to do with any personnel decisions at all before those guys left.  Like there were no "Harbaugh guys" that were brought in between 2008-12.  And for people who think it was a mistake by shipping off Boldin and Pollard, why then does he not get any credit for bringing them in in the first place?  Why is bringing them in all Ozzie and shipping them off all Harbs???
 
He AND Ozzie have brought in guys who have helped us win.  That can't be disputed.  The HC and GM on this team both have say in who we bring in.  You can't twist the story so that it's always convenient for you.
 
This year, we brought in more FAs than usual, and patched up a receiving core and TE core on the fly because we had no choice.  The chemistry on this team is not there right now, more so defensively.  The defense is undeniably more talented than last year, and much deeper along the front 7, but with so many new faces, we haven't gelled.  So even though I picked us to beat GB/BUF/PIT, I'm honestly not surprised that we're 3-4.  But looking at our schedule, we could and quite frankly should go on a run, especially since we've historically been great coming off of a bye.

What you are missing here is the bigger picture. Boldin and Pollard were both playmakers, and had thousands of fans here because they made plays. Both these guys ecemplified what Playing like a Raven used to be.

But apparantly, that wasn't good enough to keep them around, so we scrap both for a bag of balls and the void is still there. Many believe that the reason is due to the mutiny, regardless if things do not turn around with this team, that will be the biggest reason we lose this year. You lose more than just replaceable bodies on the field, you lost chemistry, you lost foundation players that could eventually pass the torch to others.

[RavensAllTheWay]

What you are missing here is the bigger picture. Boldin and Pollard were both playmakers, and had thousands of fans here because they made plays. Both these guys ecemplified what Playing like a Raven used to be.

But apparantly, that wasn't good enough to keep them around, so we scrap both for a bag of balls and the void is still there. Many believe that the reason is due to the mutiny, regardless if things do not turn around with this team, that will be the biggest reason we lose this year. You lose more than just replaceable bodies on the field, you lost chemistry, you lost foundation players that could eventually pass the torch to others.

 

Pollard wasn't tremendous at all though.  He was a great in-box safety and a very physical player who brought an attitude, but he was quite often a liability in coverage and committed a ton of personal fouls.  Some I thought were BS, but some weren't. Someone earlier said that we keep seeing the same penalties over and over again, but one thing we haven't seen this year is the hit on a defenseless receiver penalty, which Pollard and Reed committed a ton of.  I can't recall one being called on us so far this year.  So what if Pollard has 2 INTs right now in TEN?  I don't think if he were here, he'd necessarily have those two picks (maybe, maybe not).  I really don't think we're failing to replace any lost production out of him. Ihedigbo is actually a very similar style of player anyway.  I think you're overrating Pollard, talking as though our defense would be so much better if he were still on the team.  It was worse last year this time.

 

There was absolutely nothing we could've done about Boldin.  His cap hit this year was too much, and we don't necessarily have the the cap space for an extension.

 

Chemistry takes time to build.  Whether or not we do anything this year, I wouldn't count us out long term.  And the biggest reason we're losing is the offensive line.  The running game is nonexistent, they commit way too many flags and we can't stay ahead of the down and distance. 

[OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL]

Pollard wasn't tremendous at all though.  He was a great in-box safety and a very physical player who brou. dLike Ray used to. Which of our safeties do that now? Was that production worth a million dollar cap hit? Hell yes! What we should have being looking for was a decent free safety to replacing the aging Reed and a linebacker to replace Ray. You could always sub out pollard on known passing downs, but if they had us bring out our nickle or dime packages in, it was nice to have him in there to make tackles.
The qi can live with an over zealous hit drawing a flag over a missed tackle for a TD any day.
The real question is why did they just can him for nothing? Because he was another outspoken guy. Ask McKinniet an attitude, but he was quite often a liability in coverage and committed a ton of personal fouls.  Some I thought were BS, but some weren't. Someone earlier said that we keep seeing the same penalties over and over again, but one thing we haven't seen this year is the hit on a defenseless receiver penalty, which Pollard and Reed committed a ton of.  I can't recall one being called on us so far this year.  So what if Pollard has 2 INTs right now in TEN?  I don't think if he were here, he'd necessarily have those two picks (maybe, maybe not).  I really don't think we're failing to replace any lost production out of him. Ihedigbo is actually a very similar style of player anyway.  I think you're overrating Pollard, talking as though our defense would be so much better if he were still on the team.  It was worse last year this time. There was absolutely nothing we could've done about Boldin.  His cap hit this year was too much, and we don't necessarily have the the cap space for an extension. Chemistry takes time to build.  Whether or not we do anything this year, I wouldn't count us out long term.  And the biggest reason we're losing is the offensive line.  The running game is nonexistent, they commit way too many flags and we can't stay ahead of the down and distance.

Why was Pollard our Leading tackler last year and not a linebacker like Ellerbee who got the big contract? Also, he put the fear of God into receivers going across the middle

[OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL]

Pollard wasn't tremendous at all though.  He was a great in-box safety and a very physical player who brou. dLike Ray used to. Which of our safeties do that now? Was that production worth a million dollar cap hit? Hell yes! What we should have being looking for was a decent free safety to replacing the aging Reed and a linebacker to replace Ray. You could always sub out pollard on known passing downs, but if they had us bring out our nickle or dime packages in, it was nice to have him in there to make tackles.
The qi can live with an over zealous hit drawing a flag over a missed tackle for a TD any day.
The real question is why did they just can him for nothing? Because he was another outspoken guy. Ask McKinniet an attitude, but he was quite often a liability in coverage and committed a ton of personal fouls.  Some I thought were BS, but some weren't. Someone earlier said that we keep seeing the same penalties over and over again, but one thing we haven't seen this year is the hit on a defenseless receiver penalty, which Pollard and Reed committed a ton of.  I can't recall one being called on us so far this year.  So what if Pollard has 2 INTs right now in TEN?  I don't think if he were here, he'd necessarily have those two picks (maybe, maybe not).  I really don't think we're failing to replace any lost production out of him. Ihedigbo is actually a very similar style of player anyway.  I think you're overrating Pollard, talking as though our defense would be so much better if he were still on the team.  It was worse last year this time. There was absolutely nothing we could've done about Boldin.  His cap hit this year was too much, and we don't necessarily have the the cap space for an extension. Chemistry takes time to build.  Whether or not we do anything this year, I wouldn't count us out long term.  And the biggest reason we're losing is the offensive line.  The running game is nonexistent, they commit way too many flags and we can't stay ahead of the down and distance.

Why was Pollard our Leading tackler last year and not a linebacker like Ellerbee who got the big contract? Also, he put the fear of God into receivers going across the middle

[GrimCoconut]

Why was Pollard our Leading tackler last year and not a linebacker like Ellerbee who got the big contract? Also, he put the fear of God into receivers going across the middle

Not sure but that could be related to multiple reasons. First of all our DL and linebackers weren't the best at covering and were spotty at stopping the run. They was primarily due to the fact that our DL couldn't stop water with a faucet. Guards were getting through the second level and going one on one against linebackers and that's never good. When your front seven had difficulty stopping the run that requires the safeties to do their jobs and fortunately Bernard did his in that regard.

Bernard isn't a bad player but I don't see a big drop off between him and Ihedigbo.

[RavensAllTheWay]

Why was Pollard our Leading tackler last year and not a linebacker like Ellerbee who got the big contract? Also, he put the fear of God into receivers going across the middle

 

Pollard was our leading tackler because Ray got hurt.

[CalvinSmoke]

ok seriously... why are we flaming coach for cutting people? Those aren't his decisions, he doesn't have control over player personnel movements, he's not the GM. You think he walked into Ozzie's office and said, "I think we should trade Anquan" 

 

NO! He just plays along with whatever he is told, like anyone else does with their boss. Stop being ridiculous. 

[jimjim5]

Bernard isn't a bad player but I don't see a big drop off between him and Ihedigbo.

I agree, performance wise. However, Pollard really terrified grown men. That is an intangible that is hard to match.

Lewis was an intimidator
Boldin was an intimidator and bully
Pollard was an intimidator and bully
Reed was an intimidator

The team doesn't miss the lack of speed of these players, but it really misses the aura and physical nature of these players.

[jimjim5]

I think the coach has influence. Why do you think we see all of these cuts and additions in the middle of the year? That is the coach.

ok seriously... why are we flaming coach for cutting people? Those aren't his decisions, he doesn't have control over player personnel movements, he's not the GM. You think he walked into Ozzie's office and said, "I think we should trade Anquan"

NO! He just plays along with whatever he is told, like anyone else does with their boss. Stop being ridiculous.

[jimjim5]

Pollard was our leading tackler because Ray got old.

fixed it for you.

[OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL]

ok seriously... why are we flaming coach for cutting people? Those aren't his decisions, he doesn't have control over player personnel movements, he's not the GM. You think he walked into Ozzie's office and said, "I think we should trade Anquan"  NO! He just plays along with whatever he is told, like anyone else does with their boss. Stop being ridiculous.

Um yes. Now we will flame him for getting rid of McKinnie now that K.O. is done for the season. The reason we will flame him is the reason WHY we got rid of these healthy decent players.

[CalvinSmoke]

Um yes. Now we will flame him for getting rid of McKinnie now that K.O. is done for the season. The reason we will flame him is the reason WHY we got rid of these healthy decent players.

Mckinnie and KO are unrelated... how would that situation be any better if Mckinnie was here? He's not playing guard under any circumstances.

[CalvinSmoke]

I think the coach has influence. Why do you think we see all of these cuts and additions in the middle of the year? That is the coach.
 

I don't know about that, coach isn't up scouting everyone across the NFL. Harbaugh can express that he would like something new or he is open to it, but he doesn't make decisions like that. He could hate Joe Flaccos guts and want him gone but that doesn't mean he could cut him.

 

Hypothetically speaking

[OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL]

For the record, I know I have called Harbs out on several things. That being said, For now I don't want another coach. I like the passion John brings to the game. Was I pissed watching Boldin go? Absolutely

What I want him to start doing is adapting to the players he has been dealt instead of making these player decisions about what's best for him and his ego, many of them have lacked common sense or were by emotion or feelings toward certain players, not what they can do for our football team. The team and fans suffer without players like Boldin and Pollard. They no longer get to see them make plays.
I would say going forward he needs to check his ego at the door, and learn how to deal with outspoken guys who are good football players, not can them as soon as they have an opinion that is different than his own agenda.

[izvoodoo]

For the record, I know I have called Harbs out on several things. That being said, For now I don't want another coach. I like the passion John brings to the game. Was I pissed watching Boldin go? Absolutely

What I want him to start doing is adapting to the players he has been dealt instead of making these player decisions about what's best for him and his ego, many of them have lacked common sense or were by emotion or feelings toward certain players, not what they can do for our football team. The team and fans suffer without players like Boldin and Pollard. They no longer get to see them make plays.
I would say going forward he needs to check his ego at the door, and learn how to deal with outspoken guys who are good football players, not can them as soon as they have an opinion that is different than his own agenda.

Dude, for the LAST time.

 

Boldin was our THIRD HIGHEST CAP NUMBER!  He was let go because of FINANCIAL REASONS!

Pollard was the guy who wore out his welcome, and he didn't exactly command a big market.  No one else wanted him either.

 

Basically the whole NFL disagreed with you on him.

[jimjim5]

Dude, for the LAST time.

Boldin was our THIRD HIGHEST CAP NUMBER! He was let go because of FINANCIAL REASONS!

Pollard was the guy who wore out his welcome, and he didn't exactly command a big market. No one else wanted him either.

Basically the whole NFL disagreed with you on him.

So how do you explain the Pollard playing for the Titans now?

Second, look at whay other teams are playing their WR's... Boldin could have been paid, but the team didn't think he was worth the cost.

[The Raven]

Why was Pollard our Leading tackler last year and not a linebacker like Ellerbee who got the big contract? Also, he put the fear of God into receivers going across the middle

 

Why is Pollard on his fourth team in his career? That indicates a cancer or a bad player.

 

Pollard was probably our leading tackler because he blew so many coverages. He just pops guys so hard we tend to forget how terrible he is in coverage. Oh, and because our linebackers were bad last year and Pollard had to play clean up.

[berad]

ok seriously... why are we flaming coach for cutting people? Those aren't his decisions, he doesn't have control over player personnel movements, he's not the GM. You think he walked into Ozzie's office and said, "I think we should trade Anquan" 
 
NO! He just plays along with whatever he is told, like anyone else does with their boss. Stop being ridiculous.

Agreed - Ozzie has to finagle the salary cap and make the tough moves

[gabefergy]

So how do you explain the Pollard playing for the Titans now?

Second, look at whay other teams are playing their WR's... Boldin could have been paid, but the team didn't think he was worth the cost.

Pollard was given a 1 year, 2 million dollar contract. Not exactly a ringing endorsement. He's a good safety, especially in the box, but hw is below average in coverage and a penalty machine.

Boldin could have been paid, but it would have severely limited the FO when it comes to making other moves. There is no way we can land Dumervil if Boldin is still on the roster.

The fact is Boldin was overpaid and never performed to the level of his contract. We offered him a slightly reduced salary to stick around but he refused. Just look at what hr is doing in SF, its not that impressive. We have gotten more performance out of Doss and Brown for 1/6 of the cost.

[OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL]

And our 3rd down production?

[OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL]

Keep towing the company line

[gabefergy]

More like basic knowledge about how football teams work.

[gabefergy]

The thing is, trading Boldin was a FO move. You think Harbaugh wanted to get rid of Q? Salary cap move, plain and simple.

They thought they had his replacement in Pitta, but obviously he hasn't been able to play. We were talking about having to potentially cut Boldin back before the 2012 season, but instead we got a pick in return.

[gabefergy]

You know what else? People consider coaching, specifically the head coach, to be a significant strength for this team.

Harbaugh is 5-0 after a bye week. That is a mark of great coaching. He's been to 3 AFC championship games in 5 years and won a Supwr Bowl.