C Gino Gradkowski needs to be benched

[Guest Im An Ozzie Newsome Guy]

I'm assuming this is the right thread to ask this: So, the Ravens have actually been using a zone-blocking scheme for a few years now, right? Like, it's a misconception to think it was Juan Castillo that installed the ZBS?

 

Well, if that is the case, I going to guess a zone-blocking scheme relies heavily on the leader of the offensive line (which, in most cases, is the center) to point-out where the blitz is coming from. And, because of that, when a defensive player manages to find a gap against this scheme, the outcome for the offense isn't pretty.

 

Case-in-point, I want to say it was A.J. Hawk twice-or-three times (or maybe it could have been someone else the other time) that managed to sneak in-between Yanda and Oher like it was nothing at all, while Flacco had no time to react to the oncoming blitz. Yet, Marshal Yanda picked-up a defender on his left and Michael Oher blocked the Packer to his right, which means that is the result of mis-communication between all members of the line.

 

At this point, when the Ravens pass the football, the o-line has trouble identifying an opposing team's pass rush and there's always one uncovered defender who can potential sack Flacco very quickly; where as on running plays, there are blown assignments mostly in the middle of the offensive line. To make matters worse, most of the team's running plays have appeared to be draw up-the-middle, which, to me, doesn't make sense with a running-back like Rice; but, I digress.

 

With that said, I really, really don't want to fully blame Gino Gradkowski for all of the o-line's problems. However, it is just weird to be here, in October, and not once think that losing Matt Birk to retirement would be a major concern for this program. I recall Gino looking like he could hold his own against the likes of a Geno Atkins; thus, strength is not his weakness (although, as others have mentioned, he seems to be slow off the line, still). And, unfortunately, becoming aware and being able to recognize a defense takes time and experience. Plus, to make matters worse, Birk was the master at that.

 

So, how would I solve this problem for the Ravens? Well, it doesn't involve subbing Gradkowski for Shipley, nor does it include giving Ryan Jensen a chance when he returns, as I see him as a project for the future. Instead, I believe if this offense has to go back to the no-huddle offense, like it only seems to do, now, when the Ravens are down by 2 scores, and let the offense control the opposing defense. I'm serious; if the offensive line can't help Flacco efficiently, then let Flacco help out his line by taking control of the game. This offense lives-and-dies by what Flacco does; and, he is the face of the franchise that will be a vital member for the years to come. Also, Joe Flacco has yet to make a mistake with the hurry-up and, right now, all of the wide receivers have youth to their side, as well as the speed to beat a tired defense. While I might be naive to think that when the Ravens were in this type-of offense against the Packers, Baltimore had the advantage over the Green Bay, simply because the Packers could have been playing loose. However, I still want to say that this is the way to go for the rest of the season.

[rmw10]

I'm assuming this is the right thread to ask this: So, the Ravens have actually been using a zone-blocking scheme for a few years now, right? Like, it's a misconception to think it was Juan Castillo that installed the ZBS?

 

Well, if that is the case, I going to guess a zone-blocking scheme relies heavily on the leader of the offensive line (which, in most cases, is the center) to point-out where the blitz is coming from. And, because of that, when a defensive player manages to find a gap against this scheme, the outcome for the offense isn't pretty.

 

 

I didn't read beyond this point because it was too long, but yes, we've been using the ZBS for a few years.  However, it hasn't been the primary scheme.  This year, it's pretty much all we've been using.  In year's past, we used the ZBS in combination with a power running scheme.  That power running has seemingly gone out the window this year.

[Jokerraven]

I'm assuming this is the right thread to ask this: So, the Ravens have actually been using a zone-blocking scheme for a few years now, right? Like, it's a misconception to think it was Juan Castillo that installed the ZBS?

 

Well, if that is the case, I going to guess a zone-blocking scheme relies heavily on the leader of the offensive line (which, in most cases, is the center) to point-out where the blitz is coming from. And, because of that, when a defensive player manages to find a gap against this scheme, the outcome for the offense isn't pretty.

 

 

 

in addition to what rmw10 has said. we also run allot of inside blocking . in the past the zone stretch blocking and power blocking has been successful (pro bowl  running back ). we have ran little if any of that this year . 

[Guest Im An Ozzie Newsome Guy]

I didn't read beyond this point because it was too long, but yes, we've been using the ZBS for a few years.  However, it hasn't been the primary scheme.  This year, it's pretty much all we've been using.  In year's past, we used the ZBS in combination with a power running scheme.  That power running has seemingly gone out the window this year.

 

in addition to what rmw10 has said. we also run allot of inside blocking . in the past the zone stretch blocking and power blocking has been successful (pro bowl  running back ). we have ran little if any of that this year . 

 

Thanks!

 

So, now, I wonder what exactly lead to the abandonment of the power blocking scheme. Is that where the Castillo "hate" comes from; or, is that something Gradkowski just isn't capable of being apart of?

[Chris K]

Whatever the scheme change that was implemented was from the Super Bowl to now, it clearly has not benefited anyone, especially Flacco. I agree with what was stated above, let Joe run no huddle. 

 

Can it lead to quick three and outs? Certainly.

Is Joe capable of running it? Absolutely. 

 

Letting Joe come into his own by directing the offense and orchestrating blocking assignments by recognizing blitzes would immensely help the offense by preventing it from starting off slowly. Of course the O-Line scheme changes that have happened in the past eight months would also have to go out the window, here's to hoping they do.

[Jokerraven]

Thanks!

 

So, now, I wonder what exactly lead to the abandonment of the power blocking scheme. Is that where the Castillo "hate" comes from; or, is that something Gradkowski just isn't capable of being apart of?

that's the part I don't understand but wish I did absolutely no clue why they changed from something that was successful to something totally inept. I don't think gino's struggles are causing all of the failuresbut without a doubt if he was more acclimated it may work better. I also don't understand why we have no gone back to power blocking or the stretch plays

[GrimCoconut]

Interesting that Gino needs to be benched and he was rated our best lineman by PFF. I don't go by their ratings but rather my own and their ratings correspond with mine in that Gino has gotten better and played better against the Packers.

[rmw10]

I just read on the homepage that Jensen is being groomed as a G with a secondary position of C.  I wouldn't expect to see him playing at C much this year if at all.

[PolishRifle]

Interesting that Gino needs to be benched and he was rated our best lineman by PFF. I don't go by their ratings but rather my own and their ratings correspond with mine in that Gino has gotten better and played better against the Packers.

 

I can see Gino getting better, he had some nice flashes here and there. I think much of the offensive struggles are assignment issues. I'm still not sure how much has changed from the previous season as the coaches claim that not much has changed from last year, but when even Yanda is playing poorly (and he does) there must something more to this than just playing ability.

[The Raven]

I just read on the homepage that Jensen is being groomed as a G with a secondary position of C.  I wouldn't expect to see him playing at C much this year if at all.

 

And now, nearly everyone on the board is heartbroken and devastated to learn that the only other person capable of taking Gino's is not playing center this year.

 

What a tragedy!

[izvoodoo]

On the one Hawk sack, Gino and Yanda just stood there watching Flacco get drilled. Miscommunication is the issue, not his size

I'm pretty sure yanda and Oher were blocking somebody.  It looked like a Green Dog.  The person responsible for Hawk went into a passing pattern, so hawk just blitzed.  I haven't broken it down yet, I'll have to go back and check.  But you could be right.  I feel like we've given up more lapses in pass protection than actually getting beat in pass protection.

[The Raven]

I'm pretty sure yanda and Oher were blocking somebody.  It looked like a Green Dog.  The person responsible for Hawk went into a passing pattern, so hawk just blitzed.  I haven't broken it down yet, I'll have to go back and check.  But you could be right.  I feel like we've given up more lapses in pass protection than actually getting beat in pass protection.

 

It was a green dog, but there was a miscommunication there too. Yanda must have thought Gino or Rice was going to pick up Hawk. Miscommunications are on the center.

[izvoodoo]

It was a green dog, but there was a miscommunication there too. Yanda must have thought Gino or Rice was going to pick up Hawk. Miscommunications are on the center.

Could have been a hot read missed too.  It's hard to know, but most likely a communication issue.

[salex77]

Gino is the main reason the offense can not move the ball. He is going to get Flacco put on IR sooner then later. Has anyone else noticed his poor play? He Almost looks like he is swatting at flies, when he is pass blocking. 

Yes  he has been terrible Gino !!  he needs to be changed or removed from Center position ! The ravens need to use A.Q. Shipley at center pos in my opinion ! He will be the beeter option and could make a difference and protect poor Joe!! Also we need to get On Caldwell ! He is becoming like Cam Cameron way too predictable running plays from the Colts system that were desined for Peyton not this offense we can tbe running on 1st and 2nd down all the time ! Thats rid! Finally get rid of Juan Castillo he has been a nightmare in leading this offensive line or seeting a scheme!

[Guest RBates]

It's not his size that's the problem, it's the blitz recognition or lack thereof

His strength is the problem he gets manhandled in there.  I said it when we drafted him.  He looks small and needs to hit the weight room. 

[arnie_uk]

His strength is the problem he gets manhandled in there.  I said it when we drafted him.  He looks small and needs to hit the weight room.

anyone got the clip of Gino manhandling jj watt? Just to prove he has the strength, it's his recognition and being slow to pick up a guy and thus not being in position to block effectively that is the issue here?

[tolucaraven]

anyone got the clip of Gino manhandling jj watt? Just to prove he has the strength, it's his recognition and being slow to pick up a guy and thus not being in position to block effectively that is the issue here?

One clip of a good play is fine. BUT he is getting blown up most every other play. He isnt holding his own on the LOS, and missing calls. It just takes one missed assignment or bad play to kill a drive or cost you a game. He has no push and misses way too many calls in watching the game and reviewing the 22 film. I dont expect him to be bad on all plays which is impossible. He lets way to many free rushers up the gut collapsing the pocket. He in two years might be good, but right now too green.

[Ravenseconbeast]

anyone got the clip of Gino manhandling jj watt? Just to prove he has the strength, it's his recognition and being slow to pick up a guy and thus not being in position to block effectively that is the issue here?

How about both. Theres plenty of clips where he gets thrown like a rag doll too.

[GrimCoconut]

Lol. I love how Gino is the default scapegoat here. It's great.

[arnie_uk]

One clip of a good play is fine. BUT he is getting blown up most every other play. He isnt holding his own on the LOS, and missing calls. It just takes one missed assignment or bad play to kill a drive or cost you a game. He has no push and misses way too many calls in watching the game and reviewing the 22 film. I dont expect him to be bad on all plays which is impossible. He lets way to many free rushers up the gut collapsing the pocket. He in two years might be good, but right now too green.

  

How about both. Theres plenty of clips where he gets thrown like a rag doll too.

what that clip shows those is he has the strength. He totally whiffs on blocks more than he gets blew up, and that's mental not physical.

[tolucaraven]

He isnt a total weakling.

what that clip shows those is he has the strength. He totally whiffs on blocks more than he gets blew up, and that's mental not physical.

He isnt a total weakling, but you have to be consistent over a total game. Then an entire season. He is one year removed from playing the William and Marys of the world. Most of the game is mental anyhow. Like baseball not sure if you are an orioles fan but jake Arrietta has an incredible arm but a 2 cent head. Then Miguel Gonzales has half that arm, but knows how too pitch. Just because gino had a few good plays you cant toss out the others. Their is a reason why defenders are in the backfeild as soon as the rbs get the ball. Gino isnt good right now, the film and results support that. Is he the only Problem, no. BUT a significant part.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

He isnt a total weakling.
He isnt a total weakling, but you have to be consistent over a total game. Then an entire season. He is one year removed from playing the William and Marys of the world. Most of the game is mental anyhow. Like baseball not sure if you are an orioles fan but jake Arrietta has an incredible arm but a 2 cent head. Then Miguel Gonzales has half that arm, but knows how too pitch. Just because gino had a few good plays you cant toss out the others. Their is a reason why defenders are in the backfeild as soon as the rbs get the ball. Gino isnt good right now, the film and results support that. Is he the only Problem, no. BUT a significant part.

 

I don't think hes disregarding the bad plays.

 

I think what hes trying to say is that the plays show he has the physical tools to play well.. which is in response to those saying he's too small, he needs to get in the weight room, etc.

 

He has the physical potential right now to be a good player.... but in order to play to that physical potential consistently he needs to get better mentally to put himself in the positions to use his physical ability.

[baltravens]

The only offensive lineman who is playing acceptable is Oher. That is quite a surprise, too. Does anyone know what is wrong with Yanda? Did he have a poor and lazy off season preparing for 2013?

[izvoodoo]

The only offensive lineman who is playing acceptable is Oher. That is quite a surprise, too. Does anyone know what is wrong with Yanda? Did he have a poor and lazy off season preparing for 2013?

He had surgery on a rotator cuff.  Which is a pretty bad injury generally speaking but something people should be able to come back from.

[arnie_uk]

Thank you kind sir

I don't think hes disregarding the bad plays.

I think what hes trying to say is that the plays show he has the physical tools to play well.. which is in response to those saying he's too small, he needs to get in the weight room, etc.

He has the physical potential right now to be a good player.... but in order to play to that physical potential consistently he needs to get better mentally to put himself in the positions to use his physical ability.

[baltravens]

He had surgery on a rotator cuff.  Which is a pretty bad injury generally speaking but something people should be able to come back from.

 

Thanks, I did not know the details of this which seem to be affecting his play, but I cannot help but notice like others his mental lapses and rookie-like penalties. Oh, Yanda, please come back with your intensity and mental toughness.

[tolucaraven]

Well if this were baseball he would be figuring out in the minors. I doubt Ozzie is going to let the season go down the drain because of basically a rookie center. Good thing the NFL moved trade deadline back to after week 8, i expect Quite à few trades from alot of teams like in baseball. Those weeks help separate the buyers and sellers.

[Guest RBates]

anyone got the clip of Gino manhandling jj watt? Just to prove he has the strength, it's his recognition and being slow to pick up a guy and thus not being in position to block effectively that is the issue here?

JJ watt is not considered a powerhouse in  the league, he is a good balance of speed, strength and jumping ability.  Vince Wilfork, Haloti, Brandon Williams, would be an example of a strong guy.  I saw the play that you are talking about though.It proves he has potential.

 

He needs to hit the weight room and work on his core strength. He gets blocked backward into Joe at times.  A center needs to hold the point of attack as well as call out protections. His run play recognition might be where he is having problems.  I'm seeing our backs having to bounce it outside, on inside runs, far to often. That means the center is not getting his block to move.  We should be running downhill.

 

Sidenote;  I'm seeing lots of our players losing one on one's though. Can't blame everything on Gino. 

[BloodRaven]

Most of the time it's Gino getting blown off the ball and into the backfield. He has some good plays which means he has potential, but for now he's really inconsistent and ideally should be in development.

[Guest RBates]

Most of the time it's Gino getting blown off the ball and into the backfield. He has some good plays which means he has potential, but for now he's really inconsistent and ideally should be in development.

Yes i do agree.  However he was thrust into the starting line-up by Birk's departure.  We have to live with it now. A center has to know the playbook as well as a QB.  It would be pretty hard to get another center up to speed this late in the year.