Ray Rice and Haloti Ngata under-performing

[Stephenjr]

Yeah but we're still on the hook for the signing bonus. We also play Chicago. I mean, if they give us a 2nd or 3rd round pick for him then yeah. Okay. But we'll also need Cody to be healthy.

What do you think we can honestly get for Haloti Ngata?

I think The bears think they have a serious shot to win it all, But are missing that one piece in the middle due to injury. I f Ozzie can sell it good enough I think a 1st isn't out of the question. But the way we seam to deal at draft time tells me Ozzie isn't the best salesman, so we probably end up with a 2nd or 3rd like you suggested. Ngata will be cut regardless next year I believe, so why not get something for him now instead of waiting till free agency when teams know he will be cut.

[jazz1988]

Rice was slow to begin with,but he has lost a step on top of that. He isn't the same player regardless of the O-line. Don't forget his fumbles of late!

 

I think he's the same Rice maybe he may be a little slower due to  built up muscle mass but he also isn't healthy. Bernard Pierce hasn't look the same either and this is because the o-line isn't creating enough space  for the  running backs to do what they do best not even mentioning how  the run game lacks creativity .

[Bltravens]

No Igot the negs because some people are puppets! Chicago is in dire need at DT and NT. they have cap space!

You think they're going to take on an 11.5 cap hit for a guy who is worth half of that?  Then 16 mil cap hits next year and the year after.  On top of giving some type of compensation...

Puppets lol, ya because we're all getting paid by Ozzie for rational thinking.

[Stephenjr]

I think he's the same Rice maybe he may be a little slower due to  built up muscle mass but he also isn't healthy. Bernard Pierce hasn't look the same either and this is because the o-line isn't creating enough space  for the  running backs to do what they do best not even mentioning how  the run game lacks creativity .

I agree

[Stephenjr]

You think they're going to take on an 11.5 cap hit for a guy who is worth half of that?  Then 16 mil cap hits next year and the year after.  On top of giving some type of compensation...

Puppets lol, ya because we're all getting paid by Ozzie for rational thinking.

If you trade him and Chicago agrees to take on his salary,were off the hook! Don't say it can't happen because Carson Palmer was traded to the Raiders when they thought they had a chance at the SB!!

[PerpetuallyBored74]

It's Flacco's fault

 

He's no Johnny U.

 

In all seriousness though, with Flacco's contract about to escalate in the next few years, and the salary cap to remain stagnant over that time, the Ravens are going to have to make some tough decisions in regards to these under-performing players who are eating up so much of our cap. Especially since we need that money to sign our young stars like Torrey to new contracts when they hit FA.

[Bltravens]

If you trade him and Chicago agrees to take on his salary,were off the hook! Don't say it can't happen because Carson Palmer was traded to the Raiders when they thought they had a chance at the SB!!

You still havent told me why Chicago would take the deal.  If its obvious to us Ngata isn't worth 11.5 mil this year and 32 combined the next two years why would Chicago take him on?

That was also the Raiders and Hue Jackson was Palmer's #1 fan.  So the FO listened to him.  No one in Chicago is Ngata's #1 fan.

[Sami84]

Overpaid or not I think Ngata doing  a good job he's one of the reason  why our run defense is so good and why our defense is successful at blitzing through out the middle. Can ngata be better ? well  yes he can but its still pretty early in season anything can happen.

our run defense has been inconsistant. compared to most years other then last. which was when ngata declined quite a bit. you want tomsee ravens stuffing the run? 2006,2009,2010,2011. this is a good front line though. the problem is when they do let a runing back loose, outisde of daryl mith no one tackles well.

[Stephenjr]

You still havent told me why Chicago would take the deal.  If its obvious to us Ngata isn't worth 11.5 mil this year and 32 combined the next two years why would Chicago take him on?

That was also the Raiders and Hue Jackson was Palmer's #1 fan.  So the FO listened to him.  No one in Chicago is Ngata's #1 fan.                                                                                                                                                                       

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chicago has lost both NT and DT for the year due to injury. They can't stop the run. Brandon Jacobs ran for over 100 yards and 2 TD's. They would take his contract IMHO.

[Sami84]

yeah. people dont see how serious this is. unless we have a draft like in the late 90's where everyone eventualy becomes a pro bowler we need to get cap space or we will fall behind in the talent pool.

He's no Johnny U.

 

In all seriousness though, with Flacco's contract about to escalate in the next few years, and the salary cap to remain stagnant over that time, the Ravens are going to have to make some tough decisions in regards to these under-performing players who are eating up so much of our cap. Especially since we need that money to sign our young stars like Torrey to new contracts when they hit FA.

[Brandon22]

Brandon, I'd be stunned if we traded any of them this year let alone before or during our bye. We're clearly trying to win this year. Come on. Their play hasn't been great but you just don't trade them without trying to fix the problems around them. That's foolish.

Also, why are you so keen on trading Yanda?

Don't get me wrong but Yanda is good in pass blocking but not at all good in run blocking look at what we did vs the packers when we ran behind K.O and Monroe or outside Oher we got like five through seven yards with Pierce ut at the goal line Gino and Yanda kept getting pushed back

[Brandon22]

 

You still havent told me why Chicago would take the deal.  If its obvious to us Ngata isn't worth 11.5 mil this year and 32 combined the next two years why would Chicago take him on?

That was also the Raiders and Hue Jackson was Palmer's #1 fan.  So the FO listened to him.  No one in Chicago is Ngata's #1 fan.                                                                                                                                                                       

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chicago has lost both NT and DT for the year due to injury. They can't stop the run. Brandon Jacobs ran for over 100 yards and 2 TD's. They would take his contract IMHO.

 

Lets give it a shot but to make it more interesting for more value lets trade Ngata and Cody

[Gordo52]

Dude. There's no way we trade one of these guys. It never happens, especially mid season.

[izvoodoo]

yeah. people dont see how serious this is. unless we have a draft like in the late 90's where everyone eventualy becomes a pro bowler we need to get cap space or we will fall behind in the talent pool.

It appears outside of New England every team with a massive quarterback contract is suffering, or will suffer at some point.  

[Stephenjr]

Lets give it a shot but to make it more interesting for more value lets trade Ngata and Cody

Honestly Cody has been very good this year. He was playing injured last year,and I believe that is why he looked so bad. It is a shame he got hurt again.

[jdynamite]

I'll agree Ngata's play hasn't been like previous years , really last 2 years. While his stats are similar the impact game changing plays like busting through a double a team, or stuffing a RB in back have been missing

For me it all changed when he started playing with his weight, he was about 340+ for a few years then couple of seasons ago he decided to lose weight to improve his speed, he got down to some reports of 320. Then he had injured plagued year, he decided to put weight back on to avoid injuries didn't look as quick.

Instantly made me think of boxing how Roy Jones Jr went up and down in weight and threw off his body ,made himself slower got KO'ed by Tarvar

[SizzleSuggs55]

I'm honestly starting to think he is injury prone, he always has nagging injury problems, or gets hurt in a lot of games and comes back wrapped up, ect. Maybe this explains his lack of dominating play lately. Besides that being the reason idk, his play really surprises me, especially thinking back to when he was a one man wrecking ball. The analyst used to call him a dancing bear. he was a FORCE. No one can argue that he is still playing at that same level. Hopefully he turns it around.

[T3hRaven]

What do we do  woth these 2 vastly overpaid players? ngataisthe highest paid dt/nt in the league And is playing at a level, and has been since his contract of that of someone who should be paid half his salary. ray rice looks done as well and hes a top 3 paid RB. we have soo manyholes to fill next year and with the draft never being a sure thing, brining in the right FA or having the ability to make trades annot be understated in its importance. Can we get rid of them without a huge cap penalty ? we are a team that is sadly ageing in many areas and unproven in others. i dont see a great team been built here.

 

We are stuck with Rice for the next few years, unfortunately.  He was given WAY too much guaranteed money and that contract is really going to come back and bite this team in the rear, just as I predicted.  We could save some money on the cap next season and the year after by making Ngata a post-June 1 (or whatever the date is) release, but I'm not sure that's the best step for the team going forward.  Outside of the atypical Dumervil move, Ozzie isn't he type of GM to bring in a big free agent, and as long as we can keep Monroe this year and Torrey next year we'll be fine.  We're probably better off hanging onto Ngata next year and hoping for a resurgence, hoping we can trade him the year after Richard Seymour style.

 

Rice's contract is such a problem.  He's under contract through 2016, and he's getting about $5 million guaranteed per year, if memory serves.  Cutting him would bring on major cap penalties, so we're really stuck with this bum for a while.  Best case scenario is he doesn't reach the requirements to get some of his unguaranteed money, but that's not going to be major cap relief.

[T3hRaven]

ngata has never been a good enough pass rusher though. hes no trevor pryce.yes i would pick pryce or sam adams over ngata in my alltime ravens team, just based on ability, not reputation.

 

Maybe if Ray Lewis was here to give him some Bible quotes and dance for him, Ngata would be playing better.  Overall, I think the blame for his poor play rests with Joe Flacco.

 

And furthermore, on Ray Rice he is now officially the WORST graded back in the league.  Out of all of them.  Not the starters, all of them.  He has the worst rushing grade and is among the worst in pass protection.

[flynismo]

Maybe if Ray Lewis was here to give him some Bible quotes and dance for him, Ngata would be playing better. Overall, I think the blame for his poor play rests with Joe Flacco.

Lol, now take notes kiddies....that is how you throw people under the bus!

[rmw10]

Lol, now take notes kiddies....that is how you throw people under the bus!

 

I bet Joe Flacco was driving the bus...

[T3hRaven]

Lol, now take notes kiddies....that is how you throw people under the bus!

 

I learned a lot from watching your game tape.

[ellicottraven]

The front office will do what the cap allows them to do. I am sure they have access to all the metrics and more regarding these players and their contract value. They will either renegotiate based on their current level of play or they will be cut or kept depending again on how their contracts affect our cap moving forward.

Keep in mind, anytime you give up 20MM to a single player, which right now is about 17% of the salary cap while he takes up only 1.8% of the roster space, things can't stay the same in terms of depth of quality. However, this is assuming the salary cap doesn't go up. So, I suppose that is the express reason Moriarty and Cass are paid top dollar. To keep us competitive one way or another.

Sooner rather than later, all teams that has a franchise type QB, will end up paying around the same, but some will benefit due to the timing of these deals. The one common factor of this league is total parity and competitve fairness, which you will not find in any other sport.

[H8R]

I dont see how any body can be looking at the same game that i am because how can anybody expect Rice to be rice with the little space the o-line is giving him even Bernard Pierce is looking bad . I dont even think Adrian Peterson could have a great game with the O-line we have right now

He has little explosion, he falls on his face while trying to make a cut, he's down on initial contact almost always... His vision seems to be taking a hit too, somehow. I've seen a bunch of instances that he runs through a hole with nothing , while passing up a large hole. Even when he catches a ball, it's a lack of quickness it seems.

[Poes Crows]

What do we do  woth these 2 vastly overpaid players? ngataisthe highest paid dt/nt in the league And is playing at a level, and has been since his contract of that of someone who should be paid half his salary. ray rice looks done as well and hes a top 3 paid RB. we have soo manyholes to fill next year and with the draft never being a sure thing, brining in the right FA or having the ability to make trades annot be understated in its importance. Can we get rid of them without a huge cap penalty ? we are a team that is sadly ageing in many areas and unproven in others. i dont see a great team been built here.

Other than Suggs, no one looks to be playing Championship Football.

 

Harbaugh isn't coaching Championship Football.

 

Ozzie isn't making Championship Football Decisions.

 

It's not Ngata because it's not rushing yards that are beating us. It's defensive pass coverage. Our Safeties keep making mistakes and getting burned. Our safeties are unreliable because often they don't know what they are doing.

 

It's not Ray Rice because he is not alone in failing to gain yards. Bernard Pierce is struggling because the offensive line is struggling.

 

Joe Flacco has the worst TD to INT ratio of his career because he has little rapport with his receivers and the line is a sieve.

 

If someone has failed to earn their money its Ozzie and his staff, Harbaugh included. What are we going to do about them?

[wizard1]

Since Ray Rice signed his huge contract his production has gone slowly downhill. I'm tired of seeing his 1 yard run and fall down type plays. This year he is really pathetic. Like Ladanian Tomlison and Reggie Bush and just like Shaun Alexander to name a few.  I say trim his salary from our budget and lets get 3 or 4 quality guys who really want to play football. Anybody agree?

[izvoodoo]

Since Ray Rice signed his huge contract his production has gone slowly downhill. I'm tired of seeing his 1 yard run and fall down type plays. This year he is really pathetic. Like Ladanian Tomlison and Reggie Bush and just like Shaun Alexander to name a few.  I say trim his salary from our budget and lets get 3 or 4 quality guys who really want to play football. Anybody agree?

Dude you can't just make cap numbers magically disappear.

[arnie_uk]

Again? See other threads. It cant be done yet. Too much dead money

[BMORElegacy]

While he is being grossly overpaid for his current production the problem is multi-faceted. I think his production would increase if/when the offensive line's woes are remedied. 

 

I also don't think Caldwell is utilizing Rice as he should be. Rice is dangerous in space and on dump off passing plays where he has room to make defenders miss. To have him run between the tackles in obvious running situations while they have 8 or 9 in the box is ludicrous. 

[izvoodoo]

Again? See other threads. It cant be done yet. Too much dead money

We can we cut Rice?