Joe Flacco is the man

[1/28/01]

Yeah, OK. Guess I misinterpreted "everyone sucks".

Oline worse than Joe? Absolutely. Still stand strong with "everyone sucks", though (minus Torrey, Marlon and a few select players on defense).

[Tank 92]

Oline worse than Joe? Absolutely. Still stand strong with "everyone sucks", though (minus Torrey, Marlon and a few select players on defense).

 

 

Cool, you know what opinions are like. :D

 

I actually think Flacco has improved over last year.    

[ravensdfan]

Don't fall off the soapbox it may hurt!

 

When teams pay for past performance they are in danger of making big mistakes. The contract is gross overpayment and will haunt the team for years to come. 

 

Whomever thought up the idea of flushing 4 or 5 seasons down the toilet for a Super Bowl victory that has already passed should never be able to make another personnel decision again.    If the Ravens can't compete with Flacco's contract this season and next they are in big trouble.  2016 and beyond numbers are laughable as well as the 20.1 AAV.

 

The front office didn't have the stomach to make the right choice which was float him out there and let the market decide his numbers. The Ravens would have received two firsts if he went elsewhere and would have been in much better shape going forward as a franchise.

 

History will decide who is correct whether it be the few dissenters or the Flacco apologists.  My money is on the few dissenters who's population is growing with every game.

 

History has already proven your so-called knowledge and insight grossly incorrect. The man who said we'd never see a SB until they jettisoned Flacco.

 

The problem is, once you're proven wrong you crawl back into the dirt from whence you came until the team hits another rough patch. You're like an ambulance chaser football fan.

 

You should go be a Jags fan. They are constantly down - you'd love it there.

[3-4ravdef509]

Don't fall off the soapbox it may hurt!

 

When teams pay for past performance they are in danger of making big mistakes. The contract is gross overpayment and will haunt the team for years to come. 

 

Whomever thought up the idea of flushing 4 or 5 seasons down the toilet for a Super Bowl victory that has already passed should never be able to make another personnel decision again.    If the Ravens can't compete with Flacco's contract this season and next they are in big trouble.  2016 and beyond numbers are laughable as well as the 20.1 AAV.

 

The front office didn't have the stomach to make the right choice which was float him out there and let the market decide his numbers. The Ravens would have received two firsts if he went elsewhere and would have been in much better shape going forward as a franchise.

 

History will decide who is correct whether it be the few dissenters or the Flacco apologists.  My money is on the few dissenters who's population is growing with every game.

 

Again, I'll keep preaching till people get it, an elite quarterback is not made from one player...

 

First, to have an elite quarterback, you need a quarterback who has "it". What is "it"? Well, that's hard to define. To me, it's easier to say what it isn't, and who doesn't have "it". For example, Tony Romo doesn't have "it."

 

I guess the best way to evaluate it is this: 2 minutes left in the game, and you are down 4. A touchdown wins it. You have 1 time out. You're starting at your twenty yard line. Go win the game.

 

Does Joe have this? That's not even a question. Even you Hardbaugh, can't deny that Flacco has this: he's clutch.

 

92 yards with with a little over 2 minutes against the leagues number 1 defense at their stadium - the same place where you coughed up 3 interceptions your rookie year in the playoffs. Torrey drops a sure touchdown, a brilliant throw made under pressure. Boldin drops a first down pass that would put you in scoring position. Then you go back to Torrey again with a brilliant throw that wins the game.

 

And you know that's not the only time he's done it. In fact, as many times as he's done it, there are just as many times where the defense lets him down ( see 2009@ Min, 2010@ Pitt Divisional Round, 2010 @ Atl, 2011 @ Sea, three games in a row this year.)

 

So Joe has "it." And a Superbowl MVP along with a playoff record that tied Joe Montana for the most touchdowns ever thrown in a post season without a int.

 

But even if you have "it" you don't necessarily get recognized as an elite quarterback; i.e. having the flashy stats and wins. To get there, you need about three of the following:

 

1. A dominant defense. If your defense is great, you can manage the game and win. This is rare in todays NFL.

 

2. A great running back/ running game. This keeps the defense honest and gives you effective play action plays.

 

3. A great pass blocking offensive line. Gives you time to go through your reads.

 

4. A true dominant number 1 receiver, or a Tier 1 wide receiver. Torrey is great, but let's be honest, he's not Julio Jones or Megatron or AJ Green caliber - he doesn't make spectacular plays in double and triple coverage. He's a number 1 because he has a full route tree and can beat any corner, but he's not a dominant player.

 

5. A plethora of Tier 2 wide receivers. This one doesn't need much explaining, it's like the situation Peyton had last year, he had a lot of really good weapons - add Welker and you get a juggernaut.

 

6. A brilliant offensive coordinator. He puts players in position to get open and block better to make plays.

 

 

Joe has #5, and halfway there to number 1. In the playoffs, he had #s 2, 3, 5 and about half of 1 and 6. See the difference?                                        

 

Brady has about 3/4 of #s 1-3, and number 6.It's barely enough to win but you see his stats have suffered

[3-4ravdef509]

History has already proven your so-called knowledge and insight grossly incorrect. The man who said we'd never see a SB until they jettisoned Flacco.

 

The problem is, once you're proven wrong you crawl back into the dirt from whence you came until the team hits another rough patch. You're like an ambulance chaser football fan.

 

You should go be a Jags fan. They are constantly down - you'd love it there.

 

Best post of the day

[flynismo]

History will decide who is correct whether it be the few dissenters or the Flacco apologists. My money is on the few dissenters who's population is growing with every game.

Yawn...the Flacco critics have said that for the last five years.

[theFRANCHISE]

History will decide who is correct whether it be the few dissenters or the Flacco apologists.  My money is on the few dissenters who's population is growing with every game.

 

History has already decided Flacco's legacy:

 

- Super Bowl MVP

- Super Bowl Champion

- AFC Champion

- 2x AFC North Division Champion

- Five consecutive postseason trips

- Tied an NFL postseason record 11 TDs with 0 INTs set by Joe Montana

 

Need I go on about his previous heroics in Pittsburgh, his clutch performances against other opponents, his overall W/L record, his Ravens franchise records, etc.?

 

Even if Joe Flacco does nothing else for the rest of his career, he's already earned a respectable place in NFL history. One bad season does not make a career.

[ravensfan520]

Of course the Bills game isn't there.

Defense eats 3 of our 5 losses. GB, Pitt and Browns.
Entire team eats Denver.
Offense and/or Flacco I don't care which way you want to spin it, eats the Buffalo game.

For the record, Flacco did get better against the Browns. He was responsible all on his own for the majority of our first downs. We had 19. We made 11 first downs passing and Flacco made another 2 or 3 (don't feel like looking it up right now) with his feet.

The defense got the ball with 6 minutes and 45 seconds left. They couldn't get off the field. This loss sits on the defense. You want to criticize Flacco and that's fine when it's deserved. But no one around here holds the defense accountable at all and it's getting old. The defense apologists around here far outweigh the Flacco apologists. Some are even in serious denial.

Well you said it we had 19 first downs... if the offense can't stay on the field what makes you think the defense is going to have the juice to stop anyone and get off the field.

[cursona pirate]

History has already decided Flacco's legacy:

 

- Super Bowl MVP

- Super Bowl Champion

- AFC Champion

- 2x AFC North Division Champion

- Five consecutive postseason trips

- Tied an NFL postseason record 11 TDs with 0 INTs set by Joe Montana

 

Need I go on about his previous heroics in Pittsburgh, his clutch performances against other opponents, his overall W/L record, his Ravens franchise records, etc.?

 

Even if Joe Flacco does nothing else for the rest of his career, he's already earned a respectable place in NFL history. One bad season does not make a career.

:Cool_408:  :landry:

[callahan09]

We have entered the second half down by less than a touchdown in each of our last 3 losses.  Flacco in the second half of those games has been very good:

 

41/55 for 479 yards, 4 touchdowns, and no interceptions

 

That's a 74.5% completion percentage, 8.7 yards per attempt, and a 124.7 QB Rating.

 

He's also rushed 4 times for 31 yards (7.75 yards per attempt).  The running backs in the 2nd half of each of those 3 games have combined for just 78 yards on 33 carries, for 2.36 yards per attempt, and no touchdowns.

 

11 carries went for a loss or no gain (33.3%) and 21 went for 2 yards or less (63.6%).  So we have had an approximately 1 in 3 chance of having a legitimately positive effect from a running play when we call one in the second half of those games (and for what it's worth, it's no better in the first half either).  That's very, very bad.

 

The defense has allowed opposing quarterbacks to throw for over 10 yards per attempt and over a 105 QB Rating in the second halves of those 3 losses, and they allowed opposing running backs to gain 162 yards on 43 attempts, or 3.77 yards per attempt.

 

They have allowed more than 42 yards per drive in the second half, and scoring on over 61% of drives.

[donkeyking64]

Flacco could use help out front. All of our schemes are bad including blocking, routes. Can't wait to see more and more of Thompson and can't wait to see Juice get in the mix

[ravensdfan]

Well you said it we had 19 first downs... if the offense can't stay on the field what makes you think the defense is going to have the juice to stop anyone and get off the field.

 

Really? So the defense was already tired in the first quarter when they allowed Cleveland to drive down the field with ease and score 14 points? I've said it before, and I'll say it again, if that is the case then fire the entire defense and start over.

[PolishRifle]

Really? So the defense was already tired in the first quarter when they allowed Cleveland to drive down the field with ease and score 14 points? I've said it before, and I'll say it again, if that is the case then fire the entire defense and start over.

 

It's Juan Castillo's fault, he put that into Flacco's contract and Harbaugh couldn't do anything about it without the help of Ray Lewis. SomethingSomething ZBS. :P

[jimmypowder]

Don't fall off the soapbox it may hurt!

 

When teams pay for past performance they are in danger of making big mistakes. The contract is gross overpayment and will haunt the team for years to come. 

 

Whomever thought up the idea of flushing 4 or 5 seasons down the toilet for a Super Bowl victory that has already passed should never be able to make another personnel decision again.    If the Ravens can't compete with Flacco's contract this season and next they are in big trouble.  2016 and beyond numbers are laughable as well as the 20.1 AAV.

 

The front office didn't have the stomach to make the right choice which was float him out there and let the market decide his numbers. The Ravens would have received two firsts if he went elsewhere and would have been in much better shape going forward as a franchise.

 

History will decide who is correct whether it be the few dissenters or the Flacco apologists.  My money is on the few dissenters who's population is growing with every game.

I'm gonna give you a new set of voodoo Flacco dolls for Christmas to stick pins in .

 

No Qb would succeed right now with the way our oline is playing

 

Not Brady,Manning ,Rodgers or Brees .

 

In fact,Rodgers is lighting it up with a much improved run game .

[TSizzle00]

Rodgers wont be lighting anything up the next month or so.

[Richmond_Raven]

Don't fall off the soapbox it may hurt!

 

When teams pay for past performance they are in danger of making big mistakes. The contract is gross overpayment and will haunt the team for years to come. 

 

Whomever thought up the idea of flushing 4 or 5 seasons down the toilet for a Super Bowl victory that has already passed should never be able to make another personnel decision again.    If the Ravens can't compete with Flacco's contract this season and next they are in big trouble.  2016 and beyond numbers are laughable as well as the 20.1 AAV.

 

The front office didn't have the stomach to make the right choice which was float him out there and let the market decide his numbers. The Ravens would have received two firsts if he went elsewhere and would have been in much better shape going forward as a franchise.

 

History will decide who is correct whether it be the few dissenters or the Flacco apologists.  My money is on the few dissenters who's population is growing with every game.

[theFRANCHISE]

The inherent problem that we have in Baltimore is that, other than Flacco, we haven't properly developed a winning QB since the days of Johnny Unitas and Bert Jones.

 

So, we see these successful QBs on other teams and assume that the ESPN highlight reels are what makes a good QB. We don't really know what it's like to see a QB develop.

 

We forget that, if all it took was a good QB to win a Super Bowl, Peyton Manning would've had dozens of championships in his career and would've played in the Super Bowl evey year.

 

The mark of a good QB isn't just numbers. It's also the context in which those numbers are placed, and more importantly, how frequently he helps his team win. The key words: "team" and "win."

 

Flacco is just one piece of the puzzle. Undeniably, his position makes him a large piece, but he isn't the only one who needs to improve this season.

[ravensfan520]

Really? So the defense was already tired in the first quarter when they allowed Cleveland to drive down the field with ease and score 14 points? I've said it before, and I'll say it again, if that is the case then fire the entire defense and start over.

Well basically that's what we did... how many starters are new or playing in a new position... we gave 10 points in the 2nd half but why can't our offense score or stay on the field. When teams can get an early lead and know that all they have to do is where down the defense because even if they punt our offense isn't going to score or make a mistake why not fire the entire offense and start over because they are performing worse then the d.

[ravensfan520]

We have entered the second half down by less than a touchdown in each of our last 3 losses. Flacco in the second half of those games has been very good:

41/55 for 479 yards, 4 touchdowns, and no interceptions

That's a 74.5% completion percentage, 8.7 yards per attempt, and a 124.7 QB Rating.

He's also rushed 4 times for 31 yards (7.75 yards per attempt). The running backs in the 2nd half of each of those 3 games have combined for just 78 yards on 33 carries, for 2.36 yards per attempt, and no touchdowns.

11 carries went for a loss or no gain (33.3%) and 21 went for 2 yards or less (63.6%). So we have had an approximately 1 in 3 chance of having a legitimately positive effect from a running play when we call one in the second half of those games (and for what it's worth, it's no better in the first half either). That's very, very bad.

The defense has allowed opposing quarterbacks to throw for over 10 yards per attempt and over a 105 QB Rating in the second halves of those 3 losses, and they allowed opposing running backs to gain 162 yards on 43 attempts, or 3.77 yards per attempt.

They have allowed more than 42 yards per drive in the second half, and scoring on over 61% of drives.

.

But the big question why... has the offense and defense not realized this game is 4 quarters and not 2.

[gabefergy]

.

But the big question why... has the offense and defense not realized this game is 4 quarters and not 2.

I think Caldwell is terrible at gameplanning, and it takes him half a game to make the right adjustments.

[ravensdfan]

Well basically that's what we did... how many starters are new or playing in a new position... we gave 10 points in the 2nd half but why can't our offense score or stay on the field. When teams can get an early lead and know that all they have to do is where down the defense because even if they punt our offense isn't going to score or make a mistake why not fire the entire offense and start over because they are performing worse then the d.

 

You do understand that if teams are getting an early lead, the defense already isn't doing its job? What is it worn down from in the first half of a game?

The offense put the game into the hands of the defense with 6 minutes and 45 seconds left to play only down by 3 points. The defense could not get off the field. The offense never saw the ball again. That is a defensive failure by any standard you want to measure it by.

The offense isn't performing worse than the defense is my entire point.

Of our 5 losses, 3 of them belong to the defense. It was their failure to get off the field with tons of time left in the game. The offense cannot win the game if they don't have the ball. Period.

Not only do they not get off the field, they are allowing teams to run on them at will. This allows an opposing team to just run the clock down because they don't even have to attempt a pass.

[gabefergy]

You do understand that if teams are getting an early lead, the defense already isn't doing its job? What is it worn down from in the first half of a game?
The offense put the game into the hands of the defense with 6 minutes and 45 seconds left to play only down by 3 points. The defense could not get off the field. The offense never saw the ball again. That is a defensive failure by any standard you want to measure it by.
The offense isn't performing worse than the defense is my entire point.
Of our 5 losses, 3 of them belong to the defense. It was their failure to get off the field with tons of time left in the game. The offense cannot win the game if they don't have the ball. Period.
Not only do they not get off the field, they are allowing teams to run on them at will. This allows an opposing team to just run the clock down because they don't even have to attempt a pass.

I agree that the defense has been a problem late in games, but the offense has been struggling out of the gate as well so it's on both sides. Last week ST made a big mistake as well that contributed to the loss, and there were two big ST blunders in Pitt as well. I guess what I am saying is it is a whole team effort and one unit by itself is not the reason we are losing games.

[ravensdfan]

I agree that the defense has been a problem late in games, but the offense has been struggling out of the gate as well so it's on both sides. Last week ST made a big mistake as well that contributed to the loss, and there were two big ST blunders in Pitt as well. I guess what I am saying is it is a whole team effort and one unit by itself is not the reason we are losing games.

 

I agree. It certainly is not one unit.

 

However, his statement was about our poor great defense and how offense was holding us back just as it did prior to 2008. This defense is not fit to even lick the boots of some of those defenses was my point. Not to mention that three of our losses fall squarely on a defensive failure. Not necessarily players mind you, because I believe it is Pees and his 4th quarter soft scheme.

[ravensfan520]

You do understand that if teams are getting an early lead, the defense already isn't doing its job? What is it worn down from in the first half of a game?
The offense put the game into the hands of the defense with 6 minutes and 45 seconds left to play only down by 3 points. The defense could not get off the field. The offense never saw the ball again. That is a defensive failure by any standard you want to measure it by.
The offense isn't performing worse than the defense is my entire point.
Of our 5 losses, 3 of them belong to the defense. It was their failure to get off the field with tons of time left in the game. The offense cannot win the game if they don't have the ball. Period.
Not only do they not get off the field, they are allowing teams to run on them at will. This allows an opposing team to just run the clock down because they don't even have to attempt a pass.

.

How many int did Flacco throw and we were still the game... or hold one of the top offenses in the NFL (packers)... where are we ranked in the league in the offense dept...

[ravensdfan]

You're not paying attention and are just being blind.

.

How many int did Flacco throw and we were still the game... or hold one of the top offenses in the NFL (packers)... where are we ranked in the league in the offense dept...

 

We held TOP in the GB game until the defense failed on GBs final drive to hold them.

The defense failed to make the Steelers punt the entire game outside of their first possession.

The defense failed to make a stop with 6 minutes and 45 seconds left in the Browns games.

 

Anyway you slice it that is a defensive failure. We held TOP in both the GB game and the Browns game up until their final drives so don't even give me that "the defense was tired" argument. The facts don't support it. If the defense was tired in the Steelers game it was because they couldn't get off the field the entire game and allowed the Steelers to take 8 minutes to score each time. Their fault.

 

The Buffalo game belongs to the offense, even though if the defense had held and got the ball back, the offense would have had a chance to win the game, because of the 5 INTs and all the 3 and outs. That simply is not the fact for the three other games mentioned.

 

Denver belongs to the entire team. We played like crap in every phase of the game that day the 2nd half.

 

You can live in the past but this defense is nowhere near the defenses of old. They are failing.

 

edit: for the record, the packers had only scored 22 points the week before and were only averagin 23 pts a game when we played them.

[ravensfan520]

You're not paying attention and are just being blind.

.

How many int did Flacco throw and we were still the game... or hold one of the top offenses in the NFL (packers)... where are we ranked in the league in the offense dept...

We held TOP in the GB game until the defense failed on GBs final drive to hold them.
The defense failed to make the Steelers punt the entire game outside of their first possession.
The defense failed to make a stop with 6 minutes and 45 seconds left in the Browns games.

Anyway you slice it that is a defensive failure. We held TOP in both the GB game and the Browns game up until their final drives so don't even give me that "the defense was tired" argument. The facts don't support it. If the defense was tired in the Steelers game it was because they couldn't get off the field the entire game and allowed the Steelers to take 8 minutes to score each time. Their fault.

The Buffalo game belongs to the offense, even though if the defense had held and got the ball back, the offense would have had a chance to win the game, because of the 5 INTs and all the 3 and outs. That simply is not the fact for the three other games mentioned.

Denver belongs to the entire team. We played like crap in every phase of the game that day the 2nd half.

You can live in the past but this defense is nowhere near the defenses of old. They are failing.

edit: for the record, the packers had only scored 22 points the week before and were only averagin 23 pts a game when we played them.

You're not paying attention and are just being blind.

How many points a game do we score? The defense hasn't played great... but dont say its all the defenses fault... look at the who we have lost to... the Steelers just got more than 40 put on them and we couldn't get 20... even against the Texans we got one touchdown was special teams and another was from defense. We can't keep up with anybody. Wake up TOP doesn't mean anything if you don't score when you have it. The browns played a base 8 men in the box the whole game against us and Flacco still threw for just 250 and completed only about half his throws.

[ravensdfan]

You're not paying attention and are just being blind.

How many points a game do we score? The defense hasn't played great... but dont say its all the defenses fault... look at the who we have lost to... the Steelers just got more than 40 put on them and we couldn't get 20... even against the Texans we got one touchdown was special teams and another was from defense. We can't keep up with anybody. Wake up TOP doesn't mean anything if you don't score when you have it. The browns played a base 8 men in the box the whole game against us and Flacco still threw for just 250 and completed only about half his throws.

 

Let me simplify this for you: the offense cannot score if they do not have the ball.

 

The defense did not get the Steelers off the field AT ALL that game. The offense had 7 drives total (one at the end of the half with 4 seconds left, so technically 6). The defense let the Steelers hold the ball for 8 minutes, 7 minutes, 9 minutes etc etc etc and other than when the Steelers were kind enough to give us that one fumble, they let them score every single solitary drive. They ran all over us allowing them to sustain loooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnnngggggggggggggggggg drives. Our offense scored on 4 of their 6 drives.

 

Now I'm done with you because you don't even know anything about what you are talking about. Flacco had over a 70% completion rate against the Steelers and a 97.1 QB rating.

 

GB he only had a 58% completion rate but a QB rating of 112.

 

That's with all the guys around him dropping passes left and right.

 

Edit: For the record Flacco had over 58% completion rate against the Browns, way closer to 60 than 50, which includes a dismal first half performance (I've not seen anyone dispute that) but you should also take note that Flacco was responsible, either by passing or with his feet, for 15 of our 19 first downs.

[codizzle]

I think Caldwell is terrible at gameplanning, and it takes him half a game to make the right adjustments.

The more I see the more this becomes believable even though its hard to fathom

[Richmond_Raven]

The inherent problem that we have in Baltimore is that, other than Flacco, we haven't properly developed a winning QB since the days of Johnny Unitas and Bert Jones.

 

So, we see these successful QBs on other teams and assume that the ESPN highlight reels are what makes a good QB. We don't really know what it's like to see a QB develop.

 

We forget that, if all it took was a good QB to win a Super Bowl, Peyton Manning would've had dozens of championships in his career and would've played in the Super Bowl evey year.

 

The mark of a good QB isn't just numbers. It's also the context in which those numbers are placed, and more importantly, how frequently he helps his team win. The key words: "team" and "win."

 

Flacco is just one piece of the puzzle. Undeniably, his position makes him a large piece, but he isn't the only one who needs to improve this season.

I-want-that-sig

[ravensfan520]

Let me simplify this for you: the offense cannot score if they do not have the ball.

The defense did not get the Steelers off the field AT ALL that game. The offense had 7 drives total (one at the end of the half with 4 seconds left, so technically 6). The defense let the Steelers hold the ball for 8 minutes, 7 minutes, 9 minutes etc etc etc and other than when the Steelers were kind enough to give us that one fumble, they let them score every single solitary drive. They ran all over us allowing them to sustain loooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnnngggggggggggggggggg drives. Our offense scored on 4 of their 6 drives.

Now I'm done with you because you don't even know anything about what you are talking about. Flacco had over a 70% completion rate against the Steelers and a 97.1 QB rating.

GB he only had a 58% completion rate but a QB rating of 112.

That's with all the guys around him dropping passes left and right.

Edit: For the record Flacco had over 58% completion rate against the Browns, way closer to 60 than 50, which includes a dismal first half performance (I've not seen anyone dispute that) but you should also take note that Flacco was responsible, either by passing or with his feet, for 15 of our 19 first downs.

Disagree with me all you want but we are losing by a total of 11 points excluding the bronco game... and the 4 of 6 drives you mentioned only 1 was for a td the rest were field goals... we need tds to win... and we arent getting any. Against the packers we couldn't score from the goal line on 4 straight plays... then going into the second half against the browns we start with a 3 and out killing any momentum we had from the last drive. Our defense isn't doing a great job but if this team is going to move to an offensive team like the talk had been since turning the team over to Flacco and the offense then we can't average 20 or less per game... when they have the ball we can't continue to be facing 3rd or second and long every drive.