The official _______ Sucks, Fire ________ Thread! Week 5 even though the team won!

[qredett]

when was the last time Ray rice had a ray rice game? You could also ask the same about the o-line. Nonetheless, it's been a while.

he actually hasnt had a "ray rice" game, in my opinion, since week 17, 2011 in cincy. unless the chargers game where he converted 4th & 29. That was ray rice esq. i guess.

[Inqui]

You know it's been a satisfying week when next week's game thread is bigger than the melt thread.

 

I wonder how big the melt thread would be if Tannehill had managed to pick up a TD off a hail mary or something in the final play.

[Gordo52]

You know it's been a satisfying week when next week's game thread is bigger than the melt thread.

I wonder how big the melt thread would be if Tannehill had managed to pick up a TD off a hail mary or something in the final play.

Things would be completely different. I don't even want to imagine lol

Currently all is good in ravens land

[HoldingCall]

We don't need more rushing. Since when does anyone want 3rd and long positions? We need to get the ball more often to Torrey, who is our best playmaker right now and we need to get Rice more involved in the passing game. Both rushing TDs came off drives, that had close to nothing to do with the running game. It's a totally misleading statistic.

A misleading stat? I cannot agree with you on this one. The run game has always been a very necessary part of this team's success. Indirectly it helps Torrey and the passing game.

[HoldingCall]

You know it's been a satisfying week when next week's game thread is bigger than the melt thread.
 
I wonder how big the melt thread would be if Tannehill had managed to pick up a TD off a hail mary or something in the final play.

In this case, "if" is larger than a four letter word.

[Inqui]

In this case, "if" is larger than a four letter word.

Yeah for sure, but that's not quite my point.

 

If it happens, this place would be going ballistic. Calling for coaches to get fired, starters to get traded or straight up cut, Ozzie to step down, Tyrod Taylor to get some billion-dollar extension... you get the drift. But we hung on to win an ugly one, and everyone is pleased and starting to think of how many ways we can beat the Packers.

 

Really, the difference just hinges on that one hypothetical play that actually has nothing to do with the state of the team.

[beanfigger]

I don't think this post will fit with the thread title, but I'll put it here anyway.

Neither Rice nor Pierce look good at all. I'm not too worried about Pierce at this point. He really looks like he's trying to put something together but it's just not working out. I do have a general concern for Ray Rice, though. Even before his injury, he hasn't looked the same. His cuts look slow. He doesn't look as strong. He goes down with ease. And most importantly, he's not making good decisions. Is he on the decline, or is it just me?

It is certainly not just you. We still need both guys because neither one seems to be able to get it down right now on their own. Watching then play this season actually makes me wonder if drafting a RB next spring is becoming a bit of a priority. I never thought that would be the case coming into this season.

[Sami84]

concerned about he secondary. is clear a good qb will have an easy time with them.i am not convinced at all with elam, whom i feel may be one of the worst draft picks ozzie has had. hes actualy a liability.hesshown nothing particualry positive in 4 ga,es aside from 1 tackle on cj spiller. hes been beaten in coverage time and time again.

[rmw10]

It is certainly not just you. We still need both guys because neither one seems to be able to get it down right now on their own. Watching then play this season actually makes me wonder if drafting a RB next spring is becoming a bit of a priority. I never thought that would be the case coming into this season.

 

But then what do we do with Rice if this is truly a regression and not just a rough patch?  I'm not writing him off yet, but if this does continue, we have a real issue.  He's not cuttable/tradeable until the 2016 season.  I'm really not liking how this contract is playing out.

[beanfigger]

But then what do we do with Rice if this is truly a regression and not just a rough patch?  I'm not writing him off yet, but if this does continue, we have a real issue.  He's not cuttable/tradeable until the 2016 season.  I'm really not liking how this contract is playing out.

 

We have no choice but to keep him, and it isn't like he's worthless.  He's just not worth what we're paying him, at the moment.  He offers more to the team than on field production, though.

 

Anyway, the fact that we have to keep Rice around doesn't mean we shouldn't try and find someone better, especially someone on a cheap rookie deal.  Most around here, including me, were sure that Pierce was already that guy.  He still may be; maybe this is just a sophomore slump.  However, he isn't showing me right now that he's the answer at that position.

[jazz1988]

But then what do we do with Rice if this is truly a regression and not just a rough patch?  I'm not writing him off yet, but if this does continue, we have a real issue.  He's not cuttable/tradeable until the 2016 season.  I'm really not liking how this contract is playing out.

 

I think Ray Rice will be fine  he may be dealing with some other injury that we may not know about other than his hip injury but i don't  believe Ray Rice is on the decline( he's 26 years old) .  Rice could overall be having a slow start he's not the first running back  where fans question t speed/burst of  but later on they  may find out they was wrong because the running back for some reason starts playing faster.

[Cville-Raven]

kind of feel bad for the guy

[Poes Crows]

Rice may be overcoming an injury, but it doesn't appear to be the running backs.

 

We had our best rushing game of the season against a pretty good rushing defense.

 

The issue is the Oline and the chances of one of our backs getting even 100 yards appear low until the line is better.

[rmw10]

We have no choice but to keep him, and it isn't like he's worthless.  He's just not worth what we're paying him, at the moment.  He offers more to the team than on field production, though.

 

Anyway, the fact that we have to keep Rice around doesn't mean we shouldn't try and find someone better, especially someone on a cheap rookie deal.  Most around here, including me, were sure that Pierce was already that guy.  He still may be; maybe this is just a sophomore slump.  However, he isn't showing me right now that he's the answer at that position.

 

Yeah that's more what I was getting at.  Rice still has (and likely will for a few more years) value.  The question is whether his contract will be worth what he brings us.  if he continues at his current pace, OL issues aside, the contract will look really bad.  I hope it's just a slump.  I'd like to get at least 2014 out of him.

[Dewy101]

This thread gets a bit ridiculous at times..

 

Did the O-Line stink at times? Yes 

Were they horrendous..? I'd say no. We got 133 yards on the ground and two rushing TD's. 

 

Besides the clumsy 400 pound McKinnie stumbling around, I'd say it was a solid game.

 

But for Gods sake, these close games kill me.

Pass blocking still a huge problem. We  run a vertical offense Flacco needs a little more time to throw than most QBs because of this. I wonder how things would have been if the Niners never moved up to take Staley.

[BmoreInBmore]

Matt Elam, Bryant Mckinnie, Kelechi Osemele, Gino Gradkowski, and Jimmy Smith all Suck. The only one that needs to be fired is Mckinnie that pick 6 was a direct result of his inability to block a rookie, he has graded out as one of the worst Offensive lineman of the season thus far. No point in him wasting space on the bench and sucking on the field cut him now so he can go back to eating fast food, being fat, and riding around on party buses.

[rmw10]

Matt Elam, Bryant Mckinnie, Kelechi Osemele, Gino Gradkowski, and Jimmy Smith all Suck. The only one that needs to be fired is Mckinnie that pick 6 was a direct result of his inability to block a rookie, he has graded out as one of the worst Offensive lineman of the season thus far. No point in him wasting space on the bench and sucking on the field cut him now so he can go back to eating fast food, being fat, and riding around on party buses.

 

Clearly you haven't been watching this season...

[BmoreInBmore]

We have no choice but to keep him, and it isn't like he's worthless.  He's just not worth what we're paying him, at the moment.  He offers more to the team than on field production, though.

 

Anyway, the fact that we have to keep Rice around doesn't mean we shouldn't try and find someone better, especially someone on a cheap rookie deal.  Most around here, including me, were sure that Pierce was already that guy.  He still may be; maybe this is just a sophomore slump.  However, he isn't showing me right now that he's the answer at that position.

 

Let me learn you on something real quick, if the offensive line isn't blocking capably, i.e. not opening running lanes, or getting push off the line I don't care if you put Jim Brown back there he isn't going to go anywhere. Now, add a hip injury and yeah there is going to be some issues.

 

You are completely wrong in every aspect. Rice is getting paid what he is worth, just over 5 million. He is the best dual threat back in the league. But, with arguably the worst offensive line in football right now, and while dealing with a lingering hip injury of course he is going to struggle. People need to calm down the least of this teams problems is Ray Rice.

[BmoreInBmore]

Clearly you haven't been watching this season...

 

Are you joking? I guess Pro-football focus hasn't been watching either because they agree with me champ. Jimmy has a negative grade in coverage, and draws to many penalties. Maybe you need to put some glasses on that aren't shaded purple.

[rmw10]

Are you joking? I guess Pro-football focus hasn't been watching either because they agree with me champ. Jimmy has a negative grade in coverage, and draws to many penalties. Maybe you need to put some glasses on that aren't shaded purple.

 

The guy had a couple of rough plays in the Denver game and yesterday wasn't his best performance, but it was solid.  The other 3 games have been spectacular out of him.  I couldn't care less what PFF has to say.  Stats NEVER tell the full story.

[BmoreInBmore]

The guy had a couple of rough plays in the Denver game and yesterday wasn't his best performance, but it was solid.  The other 3 games have been spectacular out of him.  I couldn't care less what PFF has to say.  Stats NEVER tell the full story.

 

Wow, ok well you obvious know everything about how PFF grades players. Which stats are you referring to by the way when it comes to grading corners? They receive game footage and watch players individually, which is why PFF is a unanimously respected resource among NFL teams.

 

This has nothing to do with stats, Jimmy has the measurables, he has had three years to acclimate to the defense and speed of the Pro level and yet he still struggles in tackling, coverage, ball location, and once again he draws to many penalties. Sorry, but unless he improves tremendously over this season you can wave buy-bye to Jimmy when his contract expires. 

 

That said, I would still rather him start over Graham, and I am holding out a sliver of hope he does start improving, but I'm not holding my breath. I would love to see more of what Chykie Brown has though. 

[rmw10]

Wow, ok well you obvious know everything about how PFF grades players. Which stats are you referring to by the way when it comes to grading corners? They receive game footage and watch players individually, which is why PFF is a unanimously respected resource among NFL teams.

 

This has nothing to do with stats, Jimmy has the measurables, he has had three years to acclimate to the defense and speed of the Pro level and yet he still struggles in tackling, coverage, ball location, and once again he draws to many penalties. Sorry, but unless he improves tremendously over this season you can wave buy-bye to Jimmy when his contract expires. 

 

He has improved tremendously.  Too many people are stuck on him getting burned in the past.  That hasn't happened this year.  He's been phenomenal, one our top 5 defenders.  He's jamming guys at the line.  He's turning his head and finding the ball.  He's not biting on the double move.  I'm not saying he's perfect by any means, but he does not "suck."  He still has some stuff to learn, but by no means has he been bad.  He's also had a grand total of 4 penalties this year, one of which was an unnecessary roughness, having nothing to do with his play at CB.  I know the 1 holding yesterday was because he was expecting safety help over the top.  He didn't get it, so he held his guy or otherwise it would have been a TD.  That's why I dislike numbers, ratings, etc.  Those types of things don't show up.

[BmoreInBmore]

He has improved tremendously.  Too many people are stuck on him getting burned in the past.  That hasn't happened this year.  He's been phenomenal, one our top 5 defenders.  He's jamming guys at the line.  He's turning his head and finding the ball.  He's not biting on the double move.  I'm not saying he's perfect by any means, but he does not "suck."  He still has some stuff to learn, but by no means has he been bad.  He's also had a grand total of 4 penalties this year, one of which was an unnecessary roughness, having nothing to do with his play at CB.  I know the 1 holding yesterday was because he was expecting safety help over the top.  He didn't get it, so he held his guy or otherwise it would have been a TD.  That's why I dislike numbers, ratings, etc.  Those types of things don't show up.

 

Has he improved from last season? YES. Is that saying much? NO. 

 

You have to understand that we are matching Webb up with the opposing teams best receiver, and Jimmy is still struggling to cover the likes of Brian Hartline, and Travis Benjamin. Maybe Sucks is a bit of a strong moniker. But, when we face teams with two good receivers I think his weaknesses are going to be tremendously magnified. 

 

To your point that he has played phenomenal, well that  is just laughable and if you truly think that you might need to start watching a different sport. Additionally, Arthur Jones, Elvis Dumervil, Daryl Smith, Haloti Ngata, Lardarius Webb, Terrell Suggs and James ihedigo have all played better this season. (Though Ihedigo did have a very rough outing in Miami, I think overall he has played better than Jimmy through five games. 

[rmw10]

Has he improved from last season? YES. Is that saying much? NO.

You have to understand that we are matching Webb up with the opposing teams best receiver, and Jimmy is still struggling to cover the likes of Brian Hartline, and Travis Benjamin. Maybe Sucks is a bit of a strong moniker. But, when we face teams with two good receivers I think his weaknesses are going to be tremendously magnified.

To your point that he has played phenomenal, well that is just laughable and if you truly think that you might need to start watching a different sport. Additionally, Arthur Jones, Elvis Dumervil, Daryl Smith, Haloti Ngata, Lardarius Webb, Terrell Suggs and James ihedigo have all played better this season. (Though Ihedigo did have a very rough outing in Miami, I think overall he has played better than Jimmy through five games.

Jimmy has been on the top receiver all season. He had Demaryius Thomas, Greg Little (best the Browns had at the time), Andre Johnson, and Stevie Johnson. The only exception is yesterday, where he didn't cover Wallace for obvious speed reasons.

But whatever, that's your opinion. He's greatly improved. He's turning the corner. To say he sucks is absolutely ridiculous.

[BmoreInBmore]

Jimmy has been on the top receiver all season. He had Demaryius Thomas, Greg Little (best the Browns had at the time), Andre Johnson, and Stevie Johnson. The only exception is yesterday, where he didn't cover Wallace for obvious speed reasons.

But whatever, that's your opinion. He's greatly improved. He's turning the corner. To say he sucks is absolutely ridiculous.

 

If saying he sucks is ridiculous than saying he is phenomenal is ludicrous. 

 

And you are proving my point, Jimmy was matched up on Thomas because we needed Webb on Welker, and what happened? 161 yards, 2 TDs! 

 

Stevie Johnson is worse than Robert Woods. 

 

Andre was injured, but before the injury he had 5 receptions, otherwise he would have torched Jimmy all day. 

 

Like I said sucks may be a strong term, but sub-par fits perfectly. 

[izvoodoo]

If saying he sucks is ridiculous than saying he is phenomenal is ludicrous. 

 

And you are proving my point, Jimmy was matched up on Thomas because we needed Webb on Welker, and what happened? 161 yards, 2 TDs! 

 

Stevie Johnson is worse than Robert Woods. 

 

Andre was injured, but before the injury he had 5 receptions, otherwise he would have torched Jimmy all day. 

 

Like I said sucks may be a strong term, but sub-par fits perfectly. 

that's a little harsh.  Jimmy only gave up 3 receptions that game and one td.  He gave up 2 yesterday.  he gets beat ugly sometimes but he has really helped this team.

 

EDIT: Thomas had one catch on Jimmy on a comeback and one in a zone.  

[beanfigger]

Let me learn you on something real quick, if the offensive line isn't blocking capably, i.e. not opening running lanes, or getting push off the line I don't care if you put Jim Brown back there he isn't going to go anywhere. Now, add a hip injury and yeah there is going to be some issues.

 

You are completely wrong in every aspect. Rice is getting paid what he is worth, just over 5 million. He is the best dual threat back in the league. But, with arguably the worst offensive line in football right now, and while dealing with a lingering hip injury of course he is going to struggle. People need to calm down the least of this teams problems is Ray Rice.

 

Let me "learn you something real quick," read the post you're arguing against carefully.  I said he isn't worthless, and I've repeatedly mentioned all the value he's brought to this team and scoffed at every person who insinuated differently.  You are arguing against me when I am on your side, but since you want an argument...

 

Jim Brown was able to do more with less help than any RB ever.  Have you seen all those runs he made where he literally dragged multiple defenders from behind the line of scrimmage into the endzone?  That is something he did with regularity, and something that no other RB in history was able to do as often as he was.  I am on your side when you say we should not give up on Rice, but when you make any mention of Jim Brown in your argument, it immediately causes your argument to lose any merit.  He is the greatest of all time, so he clearly has nothing at all to do with anything we're discussing here.

[flynismo]

Are you joking? I guess Pro-football focus hasn't been watching either because they agree with me champ. Jimmy has a negative grade in coverage, and draws to many penalties. Maybe you need to put some glasses on that aren't shaded purple.

For the record, PFF are morons. Jimmy having a negative grade is yet another example of that site's incompetence

[Fred Sanford]

It seemed like the Dolphins were force feeding Mike Wallace to get him involved, like it was being discussed all week.  Webb was on him pretty much all day, and was playing way off to prevent the big play (which both him and Elam eventually gave up, though the pass rush was awful on that play). 

 

I sometimes wonder if Jimmy isn't like McAlister.  Chris got all kinds of praise for guys never throwing at him, and they didn't, but whenever someone did throw at him it all fell apart.  It's like even other teams' QB's were awed by his reputation until one wasn't, then they all weren't and Harbaugh attributed a mysterious knee injury to him and he was gone.

 

Jimmy was the same way against MIA, they were force feeding Wallace, but the first time they went to Hartline on Jimmy on a comeback he had abominable coverage.  Same with Clay for the TD on the same drive.  A CB who was otherwise brilliant wouldn't seem to have the sort of coverage he did on the TD.  Turning the wrong way, running straight ahead while Clay, a TE/FB, calmly broke outside and caught a TD with zero coverage. I didn't see him thrown at the rest of the day.

 

Week 1 was the same way, they were roasting Corey Graham with Welker, as Brady did in the AFCCG last year.  You could say, up to that point, Jimmy was doing a great job because he wasn't being thrown at.  As soon as Demaryius Thomas got looks, though, it was basically 40-80 YAC touchdown on Jimmy each time.

 

The only time Jimmy held up when thrown at was with Weeden throwing at Greg Little, not exactly Montana/Rice.  I know Thomas and Clay are good receivers, but I'm really worried about Jimmy's spatial awareness.  That height doesn't help when he is 15 feet past the WR not having turned around yet or whatever.  I don't think he sucks, or is great, he's just a question mark with some positive signs but also troubling ones.  I'm worried other teams see him appearing to have good coverage and throw elsewhere, but someone will just start picking on him and things will collapse, like the Chargers game his rookie year where he couldn't even run with Vincent Jackson and Malcom Floyd much less handle their size.

[ravensdfan]

Jimmy isn't anywhere near the "shutdown" CB we drafted him to be but he is definitely making strides so far this season. You can say he should be further along and I'd agree but as long as he continues to improve, I don't see the Ravens giving up on him next season.

 

As for Rice, his production is not worth his paycheck right now. That doesn't mean he's on the decline or he's done. He's hampered by a hip injury right now and our O line has not exactly been playing up to par. Rice is not a power back. Pierce is going to look better behind a poor O line because he is a different kind of RB than Rice.