Is Juan Castillo the problem?

[PerpetuallyBored74]

Ok, prior to the Monroe trade the only change to the o-line was Matt Birk retiring and Gino replacing him. Since Gino took over our o-line has been worse. I have an easy solution to tell whose really at fault.

 

Let's get Birk out of retirement, bench Gino. If our O-line improves with Birk back under center than we will know Gino was the reason our line has been awful.

 

Now let's say Birk comes back and the o-line play doesn't improve, than we know it is Juan Castillo and his scheme.

 

Hasn't Birk already shed some weight? And I doubt he's kept himself in football shape.

But Shipley looked good for the Colts in 5 games, and our running was better with him at guard against Miami.

 

At this point, the Gino/inside zone experiment has to end before Joe goes down and isn't able to get back up.

Might as well try Shipley, see if there's improvement. Gino has to be one of the worst C in the league, so how could there not be improvement.

[GrimCoconut]

Hasn't Birk already shed some weight? And I doubt he's kept himself in football shape.
But Shipley looked good for the Colts in 5 games, and our running was better with him at guard against Miami.

At this point, the Gino/inside zone experiment has to end before Joe goes down and isn't able to get back up.
Might as well try Shipley, see if there's improvement. Gino has to be one of the worst C in the league, so how could there not be improvement.

The problem is that he's been improving. At least from what I've seen. I think he's getting better. I still think we should give him a chance. Let him get his rhythm.

[redravenfan]

http://boards.baltimoreravens.com/topic/55302-news-ravens-run-scheme-changes-may-be-coming/

 

gino got the highest grade from pff yesterday

[Florida Ravens Fan]

Well just read on main site that Harbs thinks the scheming has to change, for those who keep saying That's the problem.

lets see if they fix it this week.

[GrimCoconut]

Well just read on main site that Harbs thinks the scheming has to change, for those who keep saying That's the problem.

lets see if they fix it this week.

That would make me very happy. It might not be the scheme but I'd rather them try to change schemes before players.

[Florida Ravens Fan]

That would make me very happy. It might not be the scheme but I'd rather them try to change schemes before players.

yeah, he thinks personnel is fine including castillo. He did make it sound castillo has changed some stuff, but mentioned wasn't drastic, but not working.

[Grapple Raven]

Folks, its not that we haven't run variations of the ZBS before, we certainly have, but I think Castillo has changed alot of the schemes and techniques, that we obviously are not built for.  His techniques in his ZBS require excellent communication and fluid movement and that is going to be a problem with a rookie center with problems seeing protections, it affects timing.  They might look fantastic on paper, but they are not transferring to the field.  When you have your RB's try to run constantly up the middle behind a "new" center that is obviously having issues, and it isn't working...I for one don't understand why he can't see that.  This isn't our first game, we are one third into the season, things are starting to mount up now.

 

Rice is a cut and go runner, and he isn't even getting to the second level.  He needs a power run scheme. That is what he is used to, hat on hat, each O-lineman on a defender pushing to open a running lane. Rice has better vision and can get to the second level.   When we switched after the half, late in the game yesterday things started to click.  Just sayin'.

 

Imho, when you have a "run game coordinator" and you can't run...and 6 games into the season and nothing is changing...you have a run game coordinator that can't scheme to his players strengths...that is a problem!  Mine you I am no football genius...but I'm not a nitwit either, I figured this out:
 
Last year we "ran the ball" and we had no "run game coordinator"!
 
This year we have coordinator for the run game and we can't run the dang :football: !!!  

Glad Harbs got the idea, :idea:

[Im Too Legendary]

It's just sort of hard to fathom, actually who am I kidding? It's completely unfathomable to think our offensive line, practically the same merely 9 months ago, with the obvious exception of Matt Birk, is this putrid and deplorable.  

As much as I abhor the Broncos, look at their offensive line. They've lost starter after starter. Their starting (well for the season anyway) right tackle even went down yesterday against the Jaguars; but even prior to that, they still managed to run the ball either effectively or at the very least adequately.

47 rushing yards for the entire game? That sort of performance is reserved for garbage High School Football teams. This is completely intolerable, especially considering we have Pierce and Rice in the backfield.  

 

It's not like our offensive line caught amnesia and forgot how to play solid fundamental football within the last several months. It's not like Matt Birk, as great as he was, provided some aura of impunity and mistake free run blocking calls. Whatever is being instilled into our offensive line obviously isn't seeing results, as it is clearly not suited for us.

Scheme, execution, whatever it may be, there is just no way we should ONLY be able to AMASS FOURTY-SEVEN (47) Rushing yards in an ENTIRE game. That's utterly embarrassing.  

[monkeycatt]

i wonder what the correct term for the opposite of "smash mouth" football might be?

[darklight1216]

i wonder what the correct term for the opposite of "smash mouth" football might be?

Perhaps "soft" football?

[JO_75]

Lol. Now that's a novelty. I can imagine how that phone call goes.

Ozzie: yo, Matt! I know you've been watching the games. We need your help. #return?

Matt: you got it brother! I'm seriously out of football shape and I've been doing a lot of political stuff lately. Is that cool? #fatandlazylol

Ozzie: I'll take all the help I can get!!!

 

All I'm saying is you have some people here saying Gino is at fault, others blame Juan. With Birk back, we'll be able to figure out who's at blame and problem solved.

[Ravenskid52752]

 

Folks, its not that we haven't run variations of the ZBS before, we certainly have, but I think Castillo has changed alot of the schemes and techniques, that we obviously are not built for.  His techniques in his ZBS require excellent communication and fluid movement and that is going to be a problem with a rookie center with problems seeing protections, it affects timing.  They might look fantastic on paper, but they are not transferring to the field.  When you have your RB's try to run constantly up the middle behind a "new" center that is obviously having issues, and it isn't working...I for one don't understand why he can't see that.  This isn't our first game, we are one third into the season, things are starting to mount up now.

 

Rice is a cut and go runner, and he isn't even getting to the second level.  He needs a power run scheme. That is what he is used to, hat on hat, each O-lineman on a defender pushing to open a running lane. Rice has better vision and can get to the second level.   When we switched after the half, late in the game yesterday things started to click.  Just sayin'.

 

Imho, when you have a "run game coordinator" and you can't run...and 6 games into the season and nothing is changing...you have a run game coordinator that can't scheme to his players strengths...that is a problem!  Mine you I am no football genius...but I'm not a nitwit either, I figured this out:
 
Last year we "ran the ball" and we had no "run game coordinator"!
 
This year we have coordinator for the run game and we can't run the dang :football: !!!  

Glad Harbs got the idea, :idea:

 

thank you!

[Tank 92]

i wonder what the correct term for the opposite of "smash mouth" football might be?

That would be "mush mouth".

[Poes Crows]

We weren't world beaters with OLine blocking last year, but at least we got some yards running and Flacco didn't go down passing as many times as he's eating dirt this year.

 

It's Castillo and the new center. We've lost our mojo.

[redravenfan]

ravens about to get there groove back

[GrimCoconut]

All I'm saying is you have some people here saying Gino is at fault, others blame Juan. With Birk back, we'll be able to figure out who's at blame and problem solved.

Oh no I'm not being a jerk or anything nor making fun of you. I'm just thinking this whole scenario is terribly hilarious. In a bad way of course.

[tolucaraven]

We weren't world beaters with OLine blocking last year, but at least we got some yards running and Flacco didn't go down passing as many times as he's eating dirt this year.
 
It's Castillo and the new center. We've lost our mojo.

Got to be it the only new changes.

[PolishRifle]

Oh no I'm not being a jerk or anything nor making fun of you. I'm just thinking this whole scenario is terribly hilarious. In a bad way of course.

 

People are too fast to judge. The term ZBS comes up a bunch of times recently and I'm not sure people, who use it as an argument against Juan know what it even means or could pick up, when it's being used by a team and how.

This is all very similar to the "FIRE DEAN PEES" threads. Juan is in a similar situation now as Dean was last season. Alot has changed on the Ravens roster and growing pains are to be expected. Gino has to gradualy learn the center position and he doesn't succeed in it immediatelly (shocker!) and BigMac returned to his former lazy self instead of who he became in the playoffs.

Joe holds to the ball longer than usual, because apart of Torrey there aren't that many players out there he knows well and often, whenever he did trust them, a pass ended up intercepted.

Right now the offense is doing pretty well and is getting better as the season goes on and I wouldn't be surprised, if the same thing happens with the offense.

I don't exactly know, what people were expecting heading into a season with crucial people retiring, leaving because of FA or getting injured, but immediate success shouldn't have been it.

I still believe our coaches and players will figure out, what they need to do to succeed just based on past history, though.

[Static]

Harbaugh says there will be 'scheme changes' what does that mean?

[runamuk]

People are too fast to judge. The term ZBS comes up a bunch of times recently and I'm not sure people, who use it as an argument against Juan know what it even means or could pick up, when it's being used by a team and how.

This is all very similar to the "FIRE DEAN PEES" threads. Juan is in a similar situation now as Dean was last season. Alot has changed on the Ravens roster and growing pains are to be expected. Gino has to gradualy learn the center position and he doesn't succeed in it immediatelly (shocker!) and BigMac returned to his former lazy self instead of who he became in the playoffs.

Joe holds to the ball longer than usual, because apart of Torrey there aren't that many players out there he knows well and often, whenever he did trust them, a pass ended up intercepted.

Right now the offense is doing pretty well and is getting better as the season goes on and I wouldn't be surprised, if the same thing happens with the offense.

I don't exactly know, what people were expecting heading into a season with crucial people retiring, leaving because of FA or getting injured, but immediate success shouldn't have been it.

I still believe our coaches and players will figure out, what they need to do to succeed just based on past history, though.

very good post your correct a young team makes mistakes , missed assignments, broken plays and bad reads . I think we will get it together we just need to hang in there until the coaches  can fix everything. expecting elam to be reed and gino to be birk is unrealistic to say the least firing Castillo would be a plus but hey I would be happy with more manageable third downs

[Gordo52]

Harbaugh says there will be 'scheme changes' what does that mean?

Maybe I'm reading into it too much but it sounds like Flacco's going to have to play center.


But really, I have no idea. Something definitely has to change.

[flynismo]

Harbaugh says there will be 'scheme changes' what does that mean?

It means Castillo was the problem

[T3hRaven]

All I'm saying is you have some people here saying Gino is at fault, others blame Juan. With Birk back, we'll be able to figure out who's at blame and problem solved.

 

Take a look at the latest pic he posted on Twitter and you might not want him back.  The dude has lost a lot of bulk and weight.  I mean he was never going to come back anyway, but now it's undoubtedly an impossibility.

[JO_75]

Take a look at the latest pic he posted on Twitter and you might not want him back.  The dude has lost a lot of bulk and weight.  I mean he was never going to come back anyway, but now it's undoubtedly an impossibility.

 

Wow... didn't realize he lost that much weight. 

 

 

Oh no I'm not being a jerk or anything nor making fun of you. I'm just thinking this whole scenario is terribly hilarious. In a bad way of course.

 

I know you weren't. Yeah, then the next phone call...

 

Matt: Ozzie, did you see the latest picture of me on Twitter?

 

Ozzie: Yes I did. You have two weeks to bulk back up to be our Center again.

 

Matt: 2 weeks... really?

 

*Click*

 

Matt: Honey, I'm going to go spend the next two weeks in the Gym. 

[PerpetuallyBored74]

People are too fast to judge. The term ZBS comes up a bunch of times recently and I'm not sure people, who use it as an argument against Juan know what it even means or could pick up, when it's being used by a team and how.

This is all very similar to the "FIRE DEAN PEES" threads. Juan is in a similar situation now as Dean was last season. Alot has changed on the Ravens roster and growing pains are to be expected. Gino has to gradualy learn the center position and he doesn't succeed in it immediatelly (shocker!) and BigMac returned to his former lazy self instead of who he became in the playoffs.

Joe holds to the ball longer than usual, because apart of Torrey there aren't that many players out there he knows well and often, whenever he did trust them, a pass ended up intercepted.

Right now the offense is doing pretty well and is getting better as the season goes on and I wouldn't be surprised, if the same thing happens with the offense.

I don't exactly know, what people were expecting heading into a season with crucial people retiring, leaving because of FA or getting injured, but immediate success shouldn't have been it.

I still believe our coaches and players will figure out, what they need to do to succeed just based on past history, though.

 

I didn't expect the O-line to be bottom of the barrel bad.

Other teams start rookies at Center and don't see the regression in their O line that we have: from Super Bowl champion caliber to perhaps worst in the NFL. I'm willing to give Gradkowski a chance because I suspect it's the changes Castillo made to the scheme more than anything else, because even Yanda looks lost at times. And even though we've run outside zone prior to this year with some success, we'd never run Castillo's inside zone.before.

But correct me if I'm wrong, but ZBS applies to run blocking, so how do we explain the pass protection being nearly as bad?

The only personnel change was Gino before we brought in Monroe for McKinnie. And Gino has not looked sharp making line calls & adjustments--wasn't Yanda supposed to help him?

I don't know...our O line is a mess, more so than ever before (EVEN when we had Oneil Cousins in there) and it doesn't seem that anyone has a fix other than the old bromide of "we need to execute better".

[youne]

This just popped into my head after reading PerpetuallyBored's post...

We would all agree Matt Birk is a pro-bowl calibre Centre, and now we're going someone who has never called the protections live. So essentially he's learning how to block, call plays, etc.

 

But maybe Matt Birk not only filled his need - but really made the O-line look better than it was. So I think somewhere between last year and this year is our TRUE line...

It doesn't help when Yanda keeps getting flagged either. There's something just...off about that group. Focus, I think. It's lacking focus and intensity. Once the playoffs came around and it was one and done they picked up their slack. We have the Eli Manning of O-Lines.

 

/incoherent ramblings

[PurpleCityLights]

Our scheme has changed since he's been here, FACT!!

[runamuk]

Our scheme has changed since he has been here, FACT!!

^   ^

this

[izvoodoo]

This just popped into my head after reading PerpetuallyBored's post...

We would all agree Matt Birk is a pro-bowl calibre Centre, and now we're going someone who has never called the protections live. So essentially he's learning how to block, call plays, etc.

 

But maybe Matt Birk not only filled his need - but really made the O-line look better than it was. So I think somewhere between last year and this year is our TRUE line...

It doesn't help when Yanda keeps getting flagged either. There's something just...off about that group. Focus, I think. It's lacking focus and intensity. Once the playoffs came around and it was one and done they picked up their slack. We have the Eli Manning of O-Lines.

 

/incoherent ramblings

That's the thing.

Birk was not a probowl center, he was a decent center who was savvy and had really good technique.  

Gino is just really bad.

[jdynamite]

Re-watching the Packer game, doing a lot of rewinding on run plays in 1st qtr so far.

2 particular plays runs stand out so far where I have questions.

Play 1: Ray rice goes for no gain following a 1st down pass to him. On this run, it's a zone blocking run to the right, the packers back side defender does a great job, coming straight down line scrimmage, but the entire play was disrupted by Nick Perry who beat Dickson so fast he hit Leach backwards giving Rice no where to run, that along with the fact that Gino snapped the ball on the 30.5 yard line and gets pushed backwards to the 28 yard line didn't help rice any either.
If Perry is sealed by Dickson leach gets around the corner it could have been solid run. Or if Perry beats them but Gino is driven 2 yards into the backfield Rice could have cutback for a few yards before the Edge defender could reach him.

Play #2 that caught my eye was a Pierce run of -3. The packers lined up in a 5-2-4. They had 7 men in the box they were loaded up front waiting on that run. We had Dickson and leach lined up in the backfield ahead of Pierce. Osemele whiffs on his block reaches out misses everything on the defender stumbles forward, Gino snaps the ball then turns and watches as Osemele defenders runs in untouch and both Gino and Osemele still didn't lay a hand on the LB coming towards them. Perry is one on one with Monroe, he sets the edge well here but Leach probably should have chipped him before attempting to get to the outside for a block, on the backside Ed Dickson doesn't touch his guy but it didn't matter anyway play is over...
So we actually had enough blockers to account for their 7-man front, which may explain why we didn't audible, but we had 4 guys Osemele, Gino, Leach , Dickson didn't block a single person.

Guys have to play with more effort, and get on their assignments. These two plays RBs didn't have a chance but a couple of simple things getting a body one the guy in front them or chipping on edge defender could have turned a loss into a RB turning the corner for a good gain.