Is Juan Castillo the problem?

[Moderator 3]

Interesting. Is our coaching list not up to date?

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/team/coaches.html

lists Moeller as the OL Coach and Castillo as Run Game Coordinator.

[runamuk]

FYI: If anyone is interested these are some recent discussions about Castillo and ZBS with audio links so you can hear it for yourself.

 

 

thanks grapple for sharing the links

[GrimCoconut]

I'm on mobile. Can anyone please summarize those links and what was said? I'd appreciate it!

Thanks for the links, Grapple!

[Grapple Raven]

The Ravens aren't built for total ZBS, they don't have the skill set for it, they aren't a finesse running team, they are a power running team.  This is essentially what Wally Williams said in the links posted above.  When the Ravens run using a power run scheme it works, and we when switched over today everything started to click.   Castillo is going to kill us this season.  Even Quadry Ismail and Stan White said the same thing today, during the radio broadcast.

 

Actually, I really wonder who is actually calling the plays, this playcalling is so "unCaldwell like".  The major common denominator in the change is Castillo, granted Gino is problematic...but I will give him some time(we may have other options at C as well).  We have the same QB, essentially the same O-line (minus Birk, and I know that is a big minus, lol) but the scheme is different...it doesn't fit our players strengths. Go back to the power run!!!  This O-line can function at a much higher level, it showed in the playoffs, and that is no anomaly.  I feel Castillo is the issue.

 

I know there was alot of talk at the end of last season about Caldwell getting a HC job, I really hope Harbs didn't bring Castillo in to be the new Offensive coordinator, and he is actually letting Castillo get a trial run on the Ravens this year.  If so we are going to have a long row to hoe.  But considering Castillo's position at "run game coordinator" ya got to see the handwriting on the wall...and it ain't looking good right now.

 

All the local media know that Castillo is the O-line coordinator, and Moeller is his assistant (listen to the 1st link), it just isn't being made public. (Possibly Harbs way of protecting Castillo the way he did Cam?)

[T3hRaven]

This hasn't been a power running team in four years.  The ZBS has been in place long before Cam Cameron was fired and long before Juan Castillo was brought in.

[runamuk]

he has changed something I said it before now even the announcers are pointing it out  someone has totally destroyed the offense and run game and I hope harbs does not wait any longer to fix the problem . we have no run  game and we have no hope of getting one unless changes r made

[JoeyFlex5]

cam Cameron was a excellent OC with the chargers, does that mean he would've made a great coach in Miami? obviously not. a coaches track record isn't always going to correlate with his current situation. it is very possible that he is trying to implement a scheme that our players aren't built for. I also don't know if he has anything to do with the playcalling in the run game or if that's all on Caldwell, but the whole thing where we run up the gut for a half yard on EVERY SINGLE FIRST DOWN isn't working, and its not going to, ever, especially when we are running right behind our weakest link on maybe the entire team. some creativity in the run game could go a long way for us, the 1 and 2 gap runs over and over and over are just miserable to watch. some misdirection, traps, counters, sweeps, pitches, PA, bootlegs, designed screens, etc, could possibly steer this run game in the right direction, and while the execution of our line should take a huge portion of the blame, you all have to realize that its near impossible to execute when the defensive lineman that theyre trying to block, KNOWS whats coming on almost every single down. the predictability of our run game is just sickening and its hard to watch as a ravens fan, VERY hard to watch. not only am I watching our team lose games we should be winning, but im watching them lose in the most boring fashion, by trying to run the same run play and failing constantly, spice it up a little bit Caldwell, throw some spark in there, and even if it doesn't make us run better, maybe at the very least, it'll make our 3 and outs a little less boring.

[AsianRice]

We need to change the topic to Castillo is the problem for our abysmal run game.  He has a very nice resume, but his scheme doesn't fit us, see the results.

 

We need to go back to who we are when Moeller was in charge.

[flynismo]

We need to change the topic to Castillo is the problem for our abysmal run game.  He has a very nice resume, but his scheme doesn't fit us, see the results.

 

We need to go back to who we are when Moeller was in charge.

It's not "his" scheme. This has been in place for several years now.

And it has sucked, although not THIS badly, since after the 2010 season

[flynismo]

I don't think it is any one single problem.

Part of it is that these linemen are not built for ZB, but it is mainly just guys sucking majorly. Oher has been horrendous, for example, and Oher is the one guy on the team who is absolutely perfect for a zone blocking scheme (quick-footed, agile, strong, no thinking required)

[The Raven]

I don't think it is any one single problem.

Part of it is that these linemen are not built for ZB, but it is mainly just guys sucking majorly. Oher has been horrendous, for example, and Oher is the one guy on the team who is absolutely perfect for a zone blocking scheme (quick-footed, agile, strong, no thinking required)

 

You would think Oher would be perfect for it, but he's not. He might be quick, but his footwork is trash. Athletically, sure. He just doesn't have the technique for it, and somehow, he doesn't make the right blocks sometimes. He's such a frustrating player. He could be so good.

[flynismo]

You would think Oher would be perfect for it, but he's not. He might be quick, but his footwork is trash. Athletically, sure. He just doesn't have the technique for it, and somehow, he doesn't make the right blocks sometimes. He's such a frustrating player. He could be so good.

No doubt, he's got the athletic talent to dominate regardless of scheme. But even back in his college days, I felt his lack of intelligence was going to be the main reason he became an NFL bust. I think he would be pretty solid as a OG, if he is working next to an experienced and intelligent C, but other than that, we need to let him walk this offseason. He has run his course here

[T3hRaven]

I don't think it is any one single problem.

Part of it is that these linemen are not built for ZB, but it is mainly just guys sucking majorly. Oher has been horrendous, for example, and Oher is the one guy on the team who is absolutely perfect for a zone blocking scheme (quick-footed, agile, strong, no thinking required)

 

That's not true anymore, I think Eugene Monroe can be a good ZBS LT.

[rayven98]

Scott frost and u want a guy that's been an oc for 5 games in college to run that o with our personnel?
Its not our run game coordinator it our o-line coach andy moeller and oc jim caldwell who need to be replaced during the bye week with Steve Frost the OC from Oregon and their line coach Steve Greatwood

[Ravens1991]

DO you guys think Castillo has any say in the passing blocking schemes? I know his name is run game coordinator but a lot of reports are that is BS and he is just the oline coach. I say this because there were two sacks from the ILB who came un touched mean while Yanda and Gino weren't blocking anyone and the LB ran right past them. That is just unacceptable

[flynismo]

That's not true anymore, I think Eugene Monroe can be a good ZBS LT.

He's a great ZB OT, but we need more than just him and Yanda playing well.

[T3hRaven]

It's not "his" scheme. This has been in place for several years now.

And it has sucked, although not THIS badly, since after the 2010 season

 

The sad part is that horrid OL where we stuck Yanda at RT played better than the sorry excuse for an OL that we have today.  I hate to beat the dead horse, but a lot of this comes back to Ozzie paying the wrong player.  Grubbs should have been paid before Rice.  It is not a debatable topic, it is a fact.

[flynismo]

Grubbs should have been paid before Rice.  It is not a debatable topic, it is a fact.

I don't think it's so easy to say that. We clearly had a contigency plan for him in the draft. And besides, the Saints just straight up outbid us...we couldn't keep him regardless.

[T3hRaven]

I don't think it's so easy to say that. We clearly had a contigency plan for him in the draft. And besides, the Saints just straight up outbid us...we couldn't keep him regardless.

 

He would have been cheaper than Rice in the long term, and we could have tagged Rice to keep him for the Super Bowl run.  Offensive line play helps both the running game and the passing game and pretty much every play is contingent upon them doing their job.  Grubbs only got paid like $36 million, what was Yanda's contract like $32?  That's not a large difference in the long run, and you're not going to convince me that Rice was more vital to our success or that we couldn't have found a way to structure a contract to get Grubbs back on the team.

[flynismo]

He would have been cheaper than Rice in the long term, and we could have tagged Rice to keep him for the Super Bowl run.  Offensive line play helps both the running game and the passing game and pretty much every play is contingent upon them doing their job.  Grubbs only got paid like $36 million, what was Yanda's contract like $32?  That's not a large difference in the long run, and you're not going to convince me that Rice was more vital to our success or that we couldn't have found a way to structure a contract to get Grubbs back on the team.

I'm not arguing any of that, but it's a simple matter of money. Why pay Grubbs that kind of money if you truly believe that you will land a guy in the draft who will give you equal performance at a fraction of the cost?

And let's be honest, everyone of us thought KO was a top 3 OG last season as a rookie, and made Ozzie look like a genius

[T3hRaven]

I'm not arguing any of that, but it's a simple matter of money. Why pay Grubbs that kind of money if you truly believe that you will land a guy in the draft who will give you equal performance at a fraction of the cost?

And let's be honest, everyone of us thought KO was a top 3 OG last season as a rookie, and made Ozzie look like a genius

 

It was a silly projection people made because of his average play at tackle.  We had no way of knowing just what he was going to be at the position.  I think people oversimplify the transition to different positions on the offensive line.

 

Regardless, you build through the draft, keep your talent, and bring in contributors via free agency.  Maybe Ozzie overestimated his ability to find an adequate lineman to replace Grubbs, which given his spotty track record along the OL he shouldn't have done.  So many OL get drafted and don't pan out, while you can find the production you need at running back pretty much anywhere.  Whether you draft it or pick up a FA/UDFA you can get what you need to be successful at the position IF the OL is where it's supposed to be.

 

This is my crazy ranting topic damnit and I'm going to pound my point home!  Rice being arguably the worst starting running back in the league this season is proving everything I said in the 2012 off-season was correct.

[flynismo]

It was a silly projection people made because of his average play at tackle.  We had no way of knowing just what he was going to be at the position.  I think people oversimplify the transition to different positions on the offensive line.

 

Regardless, you build through the draft, keep your talent, and bring in contributors via free agency.  Maybe Ozzie overestimated his ability to find an adequate lineman to replace Grubbs, which given his spotty track record along the OL he shouldn't have done.  So many OL get drafted and don't pan out, while you can find the production you need at running back pretty much anywhere.  Whether you draft it or pick up a FA/UDFA you can get what you need to be successful at the position IF the OL is where it's supposed to be.

 

This is my crazy ranting topic damnit and I'm going to pound my point home!  Rice being arguably the worst starting running back in the league this season is proving everything I said in the 2012 off-season was correct.

 

 

lol, nothing crazy at all about what you are saying.

 

I'm not saying this in hindsight, I am saying this because I recall how I felt at the time -- I would have been happy either way (whether we chose to keep Grubbs and let Rice walk, or vice versa)...as such, I'm not saying you are wrong or right. I'm just saying that I can completely understand the FO point of view on it (if in fact, my reasoning is accurate. Who knows, maybe we just screwed up).

 

We all know how the league is turning into a pass first, offensive league, but one formula that has always been, and always will be successful, is when you put a great QB behind a great OL, you will make it to the playoffs. I firmly believe in building the trenches and the OL being the most important group on the field. So if we kept Grubbs and let Rice go, I would have been okay with that. And with the benefit of hindsight, that is exactly what I would have done.

[flynismo]

10 more to 13k!

:D

[T3hRaven]

10 more to 13k!

:D

 

Do you want me to rant some more, even though we're in agreement, to get you there?

 

Actually you'd be better off doing the rounds and pointing out all that Flacco did wrong today.  I think we're really overlooking how the poor OL play this season is Flacco's fault.

 

Who am I kidding, I can't say that one.  The way he's been moving in the pocket and getting outside the pocket when he has to might be the best he's ever done that during his career, especially considering the circumstances.

[flynismo]

Do you want me to rant some more, even though we're in agreement, to get you there?

 

Actually you'd be better off doing the rounds and pointing out all that Flacco did wrong today.  I think we're really overlooking how the poor OL play this season is Flacco's fault.

 

Who am I kidding, I can't say that one.  The way he's been moving in the pocket and getting outside the pocket when he has to might be the best he's ever done that during his career, especially considering the circumstances.

 

 

We traded for a LT -- midseason at that! That pretty much sums things up.

I think we will target a WR and OG or RT in the first three rounds come April.

[T3hRaven]

We traded for a LT -- midseason at that! That pretty much sums things up.

I think we will target a WR and OG or RT in the first three rounds come April.

 

I don't think we can fit Oher under the cap, and honestly I don't want to, so yeah hopefully that is the case.  I still think TE is a bigger need than WR.  Being able to run 12 personnel could really bring a lot to the offense, and there's no guarantee we can get Pitta back or that he'll be the same player.  Even best case scenario, he's pretty old for a guy getting his second contract, and not every player can defy aging like Tony Gonzalez.

 

Oh the irony, I'm bemoaning lineman other than Michael Oher.  The rest of our OL sucks so bad Michael Oher doesn't look terrible by comparison.

[Jokerraven]

Would it be fair to say that yes we have used zbs for years. however we are now using the inside blocking scheme more then the stretch or outside blocking this year ? what about man on man hat for a hat blocking would that fix the problem? maybe letting gino "learn from the bench " if a better center is available .

 

novice football fan just trying to understand .

[edsopafan]

On Sunday we saw what is the Prime Example of a coaching failure. It has been this problem all season. But Sunday against the Pack we saw schemes and players under utilized and misused.  

Defense played extremely good. O-Line played very poorly as well as running backs. What changed since last year s the O-Line coach. He is not cutting it. Time to cut bait. At the level of schemes we see now we will struggle for 8 wins. It is Johns pick up. It is Johns need to fire this guy and get back to last year. The O-Line was a strength in the run we made last year.

 

[izvoodoo]

We traded for a LT -- midseason at that! That pretty much sums things up.

I think we will target a WR and OG or RT in the first three rounds come April.

It's doubtful we draft both.  if they draft an OG they'd probably kick KO back out to RT.  And how would you not mention a center.

[easternshore97]

A few people have incorrectly claimed that Castillo needs to be fired, and that he didn't do jack in Philly, and that he's only here because He's John's buddy. All of them are stupid reasons.

 

Let's look at the stats fellas. Castillo was Philly's OL coach from 98-2010.

 

In 2010, Philly had the #5 rushing offense and #2 total offense. 29th in sacks allowed.

In 2009, 11th in total offense and, while ranked 22nd in total rush yards, they ranked 11th in YPC. 1st in sacks allowed.

In 2008, 9th in total yards, 22nd in rush yards, and 21st in average. Here's a down year. 7th in sacks allowed.

In 2007, 6th in total yards, 8th in rush yards, and 2nd in YPC. 28th in sacks allowed. 

In 2006, 2nd in total yards, 11th in rush yards, and 5th in YPC. 8th in sacks allowed.

In 2005, 19th in total yards, and 28th in rush, and 16th in YPC. 21st in sacks allowed.

 

I'm not going back all the way to 1998.

 

As you can see, Castillo is qualified for the position, and is not the problem. While there were a few down years and some shaky stat numbers, Philly's offense did well in his tenure there. The Castillo complaints are unfounded. He is a good coach, and if you think he's the problem, you are just plain silly. 

What has he brought to the table? Does Moeller need to be fired? I think it's too many cooks in the kitchen. All these offensive minds resulting in that ___ poor product. Ravens never had a run game coordinator and the run game was always fine. I'm not for or against your argument, I'm just kind of confused