Question about McKinnie's first facemask penalty vs. Houston

[callahan09]

So we had one particular drive on Sunday where McKinnie was flagged twice for grasping the facemask within a couple of plays of each other.  This drive began with 14:51 on the clock in the 2nd quarter.  The play I am referring to in the title was the 4th play of the drive, taking place with 13:33 left on the clock.  It was 1st down and 10 to go.

 

Flacco scrambles out of the pocket and moves around quite a bit before eventually finding Ed Dickson for a beautiful 23 yard completion.  Perfect throw and caught without issue by Dickson.  Problem is, it gets called back and we find ourselves in a 1st and 25 situation.  The penalty was a facemask on Bryant McKinnie.

 

I've gone over the tape and I don't see anything illegal happening here.

 

His hand does go up towards the facemask of the opposing player, but it only touches it in the same way a stiff arm from a ball carrier goes against the facemask.  His hand without a doubt does not close around the facemask, does not grasp, and does not turn in any way.  It looks totally clean to me.

 

From the official rulebook:

 

 

GRASPING FACEMASK 

Article 5 No player shall twist, turn, or pull the facemask of an opponent in any direction. 

Penalty: For twisting, turning, or pulling the mask: Loss of 15 yards. A personal foul. The player may 

be disqualified if the action is judged by the official(s) to be of a flagrant nature. 

A.R. 12.12 Third-and-10 on A30. Runner A1 runs to the A33, where he is tackled by B1, who incidentally grasps A1’s 

 facemask on the tackle, but it is not a twist, turn, or pull. 

Ruling: A’s ball, fourth-and-seven, on A33. No Foul. 

 

 

So am I missing something that makes this play illegal, or was it just an awful call that shouldn't have been made and instead of setting up an eventual 3rd and 33 to go on that drive, we should have moved the chains?

 

(Three plays later on 3rd and 18, McKinnie is flagged again for a facemask penalty, but this time the tape shows him clearly grasp the facemask and turn/pull, so that one was unquestionable).

[Purple Nurple]

Bad call if you ask me.

[Natural Born Hitters]

Yeah even the announcers said it was a bad call. Now what gets me was his second face mask penalty that happened 2 plays after the first one, it was blatantly obvious that he was grabbing the face mask. I just don't know what he was thinking there.

[bMore Heathen]

Bad call, the second one was legit, but the first one was not a facemask.

[The Raven]

I believe those rules regarding the twisting and such are only for ball carriers. As far as I remember, any touching of the facemask whatsoever is a penalty on the line.

[izvoodoo]

I felt as though the game were overly officiated on both sides.  Lot of yellow flying around.

[757RavensFan]

The 1st face mask was a very bad call. Like Natural Born Hitters said, even the announcers said it was a bad call. Sad part about it, it took away Dickson's catch. That catch could have been the spark that Dickson needed to turn around his season. Dickson literally can't catch a break (no pun intended).

[RobFuseRaven]

I feel like McKinnie was like, "You wanna penalize me for facemasking? I'll show you what it really looks like." :P

[FerrariFan87]

It was a bad call, and that crew was really awful all game.

[Puntit]

I feel like McKinnie was like, "You wanna penalize me for facemasking? I'll show you what it really looks like." :P

More likely the Texans put a bug into the refs ear that McKinnie was mauling them every play. So they threw a flag next couple of times his hand came close. One was a bad call. But potentially instigated by one he got away with before that.

[callahan09]

I believe those rules regarding the twisting and such are only for ball carriers. As far as I remember, any touching of the facemask whatsoever is a penalty on the line.

I was wondering if this might be the case, thus the thread... Can you show me any evidence or post a link to this rule, though?  I read through the rulebook as best I could and failed to find any rule to that effect.

[The Raven]

I was wondering if this might be the case, thus the thread... Can you show me any evidence or post a link to this rule, though?  I read through the rulebook as best I could and failed to find any rule to that effect.

 

I looked, couldn't find it.

 

I'm just saying, I feel like if offensive linemen were really allowed to touch put their hands in the face of the defensive linemen, we'd see that a lot more. Common sense, no? There's a reason offensive linemen are taught to punch linemen in the pads and not the face...

[DocMartin]

Yeah even the announcers said it was a bad call. Now what gets me was his second face mask penalty that happened 2 plays after the first one, it was blatantly obvious that he was grabbing the face mask. I just don't know what he was thinking there.

First one was a bad call. On the second one Big Mac was maybe thinking - If they called me for that, I might just do it now.

[BMORElegacy]

The refs were atrocious. No need to beat yourself up over trying to find an explanation for their bad calls. 

[redlobster]

Even if it wasn't considered a face mask call, couldn't it easily have been a "illegal hands to the face" call?

[DocMartin]

The refs were atrocious. No need to beat yourself up over trying to find an explanation for their bad calls.

REFS WERE AWFULL. Remember when they review the play, then couldn't agree where to spot the ball and went to the review booth again? We just looked at each other like WTH where did they find this bunch, are these replacement refs from last season? SMH

[RavensAllTheWay]

Could the first one have been illegal hands to the face?

[baltravens]

So we had one particular drive on Sunday where McKinnie was flagged twice for grasping the facemask within a couple of plays of each other.  This drive began with 14:51 on the clock in the 2nd quarter.  The play I am referring to in the title was the 4th play of the drive, taking place with 13:33 left on the clock.  It was 1st down and 10 to go.

 

Flacco scrambles out of the pocket and moves around quite a bit before eventually finding Ed Dickson for a beautiful 23 yard completion.  Perfect throw and caught without issue by Dickson.  Problem is, it gets called back and we find ourselves in a 1st and 25 situation.  The penalty was a facemask on Bryant McKinnie.

 

I've gone over the tape and I don't see anything illegal happening here.

 

His hand does go up towards the facemask of the opposing player, but it only touches it in the same way a stiff arm from a ball carrier goes against the facemask.  His hand without a doubt does not close around the facemask, does not grasp, and does not turn in any way.  It looks totally clean to me.

 

From the official rulebook:

 

 

So am I missing something that makes this play illegal, or was it just an awful call that shouldn't have been made and instead of setting up an eventual 3rd and 33 to go on that drive, we should have moved the chains?

 

(Three plays later on 3rd and 18, McKinnie is flagged again for a facemask penalty, but this time the tape shows him clearly grasp the facemask and turn/pull, so that one was unquestionable).

 

There seems no grounds for the first facemask penalty McKinnie received. Another bad call was made a special teams play against Trawick. Watching the game on national TV Sunday, the announcers said Trawick did not touch anybody at all, so most likely the officiating crew called the wrong number. I am giving Trawick a break here also because he deservedly so may be re-signed to the PS.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

The 1st face mask was a very bad call. Like Natural Born Hitters said, even the announcers said it was a bad call. Sad part about it, it took away Dickson's catch. That catch could have been the spark that Dickson needed to turn around his season. Dickson literally can't catch a break (no pun intended).

 

I agree, the call was bad.

 

However, watch the catch by Dickson again. WIDE OPEN, could have had a bunch of YAC but instead went out of bounds for no reason whatsoever. Still not a good play by him.

[callahan09]

Even if it wasn't considered a face mask call, couldn't it easily have been a "illegal hands to the face" call?

There you go, there might be it.

I looked up rules on that and found this in the Use of Hands section:

 

 

Blocker cannot use his hands or arms to push from behind, hang onto, or encircle an opponent in a manner that restricts his movement as the play develops.

1. Hands cannot be thrust forward above the frame to contact an opponent on the neck, face or head. 
   
   Note: The frame is defined as the part of the opponent’s body below the neck that is presented to the blocker

 

[jdynamite]

Yeah the announcer, said it was bad call , and it did wipe out a confidence building catch for Ed Dickson and I don't think he was thrown to again after that.

[757RavensFan]

Yeah the announcer, said it was bad call , and it did wipe out a confidence building catch for Ed Dickson and I don't think he was thrown to again after that.

He wasn't.

[NaveSenrag]

Yeah the announcer, said it was bad call , and it did wipe out a confidence building catch for Ed Dickson and I don't think he was thrown to again after that.

Illegal use of hands (what the penalty should have been) is still a 10 yard penalty and repeat of the down.