UPDATE: Trent Richardson traded for then Benched by Colts

[Puntit]

With this trade, is anyone else interested in seeing how Rainey performs? I want to see him do well for the fact I thought he could be a big playmaker, but part of me wants to be wrong so I don't feel like we gave away someone special. Not for nothing, I'm still mad about giving away Antwan Barnes, who I think could still be producing on this team(he wasn't a cap casualty like others).

I've got to think that with the o-line the Browns are going with, Richardson was doing about as good as any RB was ever going to do. You can't move the football when your right guard is being driven backwards on every play. So I have no expectation that Rainey is going to suddenly bust things open. If he even gets to play -- I'm pretty sure they are going to start McGahee if they sign him.

 

Rainey was an amazing practice squad RB. He wasn't someone we were going to use a roster space for (again) despite a good preseason showing (again). Why? Because he's not really on par with the Rices or Pierces we have used. He never even beat Anthony Allen in the Ravens pecking order. He showed he has some talent against #2 defenses during preseason, but in terms of starting talent, he never really cracked our top 3 backs. You have to remember that these players who look good in preseason are playing against an assortment of undrafted free agent college grads who may or may not even have a career ahead of them in the NFL. So yeah, against them, Rainey, not a rookie, looks very polished. Against an actual NFL defense? I'd have to defer to the coaches, and they have not been favorably impressed for two years now.

 

Cleveland, however likes our leftovers. They are using Cundiff, Cousins, Kruger, Rainey, and soon McGahee. For Cleveland Rainey's a good find, but for the Ravens he's someone who probably wouldn't ever get on the field. I hope he does well, but lets not pretend that a team who dumps Richardson for Rainey is going to have an improved running game.

[Puntit]

I like the moves they're making. The have no chance of success so flop while evaluating. The only thing o would be mad at is not trading back last year for more picks instead of selecting Trent. Try to get the number one pick, use the other #1 for another offensive weapon and trade up for a back in the second or 3rd depending on who's coming out. Also, they have CRAZY cap room. Then there is the fact it's hard to get a first rounder back for any player let alone a rb who's had injury problems in his first 2 years. The coaching staff is on point I think. Just time to get players that will suit their scheme.

Having crazy cap room is only a good thing if you have a clue how to spend it. Based on how much they overpaid Kruger (absurdly more than we snagged his objectively better replacement Dumerville for), they don't know how to make smart money decisions, and will overpay for talent across the board.

[gabefergy]

Nah, they just realized (correctly) that without a good QB having a marquis RB is pointless. So they are cashing in their RB for another shot at drafting a QB who is NFL ready and not already 35 years old. Problem is, while that all sounds good on paper, this isn't really going to be a year where there's a Andrew Luck/RG3 whos an obvious NFL-ready upgrade from the series of back-ups they have started the last few years. Next year's version of Geno Smith frankly won't be the kind of guy you can build around, and they would be better off keeping Richardson.

If they are serious about rebuilding, they probably should swap both their first rounds in for multiple 2nd and 3rd round picks. This isn't a team that is one or two players away from contending (unless those players are Manning and Megatron equiivalents). From what I can see they badly need a QB, offensive linemen, a #2 receiver, and now RB. They could stand a few defensive and special teams upgrades too, but those aren't the obvious sore spots.

If they are smart, they will capitalize on some team that badly wants Clowney, and cash in on their highest first rounder in a big way. But knowing the browns, they will draft Clowney for themselves, go with Hoyer or another bargain basement QB, and end up trading Clowney for a lower #1 in a future year. And the cycle of abuse for Browns fans will continue.

Next year's QB class is very strong. At least two Franchise caliber prospects, maybe more.

[Puntit]

Next year's QB class is very strong. At least two Franchise caliber prospects, maybe more.

I'll believe it when I see it. I think this will be another year where a few QBs get grabbed in the first round who aren't quite NFL-ready, and IMHO there isn't a standout Andrew Luck/RG3 type player around whom you can build a winning team. But your opinion is as reasonable as mine -- certainly Cleveland is banking on you being right. But if you look at Cleveland's track record (see the Jersey picture above) odds are the guy they target wont be worthy of a first round pick.

[gabefergy]

I'll believe it when I see it. I think this will be another year where a few QBs get grabbed in the first round who aren't quite NFL-ready, and IMHO there isn't a standout Andrew Luck/RG3 type player around whom you can build a winning team. But your opinion is as reasonable as mine -- certainly Cleveland is banking on you being right. But if you look at Cleveland's track record (see the Jersey picture above) odds are the guy they target wont be worthy of a first round pick.

Its certainly possible they screw it up, but I also think there is a good chance they make their team much better with this trade.

[flaccopoe]

Nah, they just realized (correctly) that without a good QB having a marquis RB is pointless. So they are cashing in their RB for another shot at drafting a QB who is NFL ready and not already 35 years old. Problem is, while that all sounds good on paper, this isn't really going to be a year where there's a Andrew Luck/RG3 whos an obvious NFL-ready upgrade from the series of back-ups they have started the last few years. Next year's version of Geno Smith frankly won't be the kind of guy you can build around, and they would be better off keeping Richardson.

 

If they are serious about rebuilding, they probably should swap both their first rounds in for multiple 2nd and 3rd round picks. This isn't a team that is one or two players away from contending (unless those players are Manning and Megatron equiivalents). From what I can see they badly need a QB, offensive linemen, a #2 receiver, and now RB. They could stand a few defensive and special teams upgrades too, but those aren't the obvious sore spots.

 

If they are smart, they will capitalize on some team that badly wants Clowney, and cash in on their highest first rounder in a big way. But knowing the browns, they will draft Clowney for themselves, go with Hoyer or another bargain basement QB, and end up trading Clowney for a lower #1 in a future year. And the cycle of abuse for Browns fans will continue.

 

That's the history of the Browns organization in a nutshell!

[beanfigger]

Its certainly possible they screw it up, but I also think there is a good chance they make their team much better with this trade.

 

They were saying the same thing two years ago.  Strong QB class, and they made two first round picks.  I'm just not confident in the decision-making ability of that team.  However, this is a different regime than two years ago, so I guess there's hope.  I mean, they were smart enough to break the bank on that stud linebacker named Kruger.  I just don't get all the talk about them moving in a good direction, when it appears they are moving nowhere and in the same place as 2012.

[AsianRice]

I've got to think that with the o-line the Browns are going with, Richardson was doing about as good as any RB was ever going to do. You can't move the football when your right guard is being driven backwards on every play. So I have no expectation that Rainey is going to suddenly bust things open. If he even gets to play -- I'm pretty sure they are going to start McGahee if they sign him.

 

Rainey was an amazing practice squad RB. He wasn't someone we were going to use a roster space for (again) despite a good preseason showing (again). Why? Because he's not really on par with the Rices or Pierces we have used. He never even beat Anthony Allen in the Ravens pecking order. He showed he has some talent against #2 defenses during preseason, but in terms of starting talent, he never really cracked our top 3 backs. You have to remember that these players who look good in preseason are playing against an assortment of undrafted free agent college grads who may or may not even have a career ahead of them in the NFL. So yeah, against them, Rainey, not a rookie, looks very polished. Against an actual NFL defense? I'd have to defer to the coaches, and they have not been favorably impressed for two years now.

 

Cleveland, however likes our leftovers. They are using Cundiff, Cousins, Kruger, Rainey, and soon McGahee. For Cleveland Rainey's a good find, but for the Ravens he's someone who probably wouldn't ever get on the field. I hope he does well, but lets not pretend that a team who dumps Richardson for Rainey is going to have an improved running game.

sound like you can be Browns GM....

[Puntit]

sound like you can be Browns GM....

Im not sure I could do much worse. They have had the high draft picks and cap space, and yet I don't really think you can look at the team today and say they are actually better than they were at this time last year. During the offseason I thought they were going in the right direction, but to unload your best offensive player and decide to start a quarterback competition three games into the season, it's like they truly have given up. And this was a year that they didn't even necessarilly have to come in dead last in the division, and could have something positive to build on.

[gabefergy]

They were saying the same thing two years ago. Strong QB class, and they made two first round picks. I'm just not confident in the decision-making ability of that team. However, this is a different regime than two years ago, so I guess there's hope. I mean, they were smart enough to break the bank on that stud linebacker named Kruger. I just don't get all the talk about them moving in a good direction, when it appears they are moving nowhere and in the same place as 2012.

Well the new regime obviously saw the errors the old made and is trying to rectify them. That should provide some hope moving forward.

[beanfigger]

Well the new regime obviously saw the errors the old made and is trying to rectify them. That should provide some hope moving forward.

 

Yeah, hope exists.  Their fans need to have that, and if they didn't just spend $41million on a four-year 3rd down specialist, I might have more faith in them.  Anyway, they took a little risk in the draft on Mingo, and he looked great on Sunday.  Maybe their drafting is better than the last group.

[GrimCoconut]

I don't think trading Richardson is a bad move but when you're the Browns are you historically have proven to be incompetent I question your choices and who you'll get. Perhaps they'll go all in for losing to get Bridgewater. That's the best guess and would make the most sense.

They have competition in Jacksonville and Oakland.

[beanfigger]

I don't think trading Richardson is a bad move but when you're the Browns are you historically have proven to be incompetent I question your choices and who you'll get. Perhaps they'll go all in for losing to get Bridgewater. That's the best guess and would make the most sense.

They have competition in Jacksonville and Oakland.

They do play the Jaguars, so they can take care of that tiebreaker themselves.

[rmw10]

I don't think trading Richardson is a bad move but when you're the Browns are you historically have proven to be incompetent I question your choices and who you'll get. Perhaps they'll go all in for losing to get Bridgewater. That's the best guess and would make the most sense.

They have competition in Jacksonville and Oakland.

I don't think it's a much trading Richardson the player (who I'm not a fan of to begin with) as much as it is everything else that was involved in the whole pick itself.

I mean, they gave up 3 picks to move up 1 spot because this was the guy they wanted. I don't think he's played all that great, but I do question giving up that much and then dumping him 18 games later. Not to mention, drafting a RB at #3 in today's NFL is just poor decision making.

When you look at just the trade, getting a 1st out of T-Rich, it looks great for the Browns. If you look at everything else that was involved in getting him, it looks horrible for the Browns.

[beanfigger]

I don't think it's a much trading Richardson the player (who I'm not a fan of to begin with) as much as it is everything else that was involved in the whole pick itself.

I mean, they gave up 3 picks to move up 1 spot because this was the guy they wanted. I don't think he's played all that great, but I do question giving up that much and then dumping him 18 games later. Not to mention, drafting a RB at #3 in today's NFL is just poor decision making.

When you look at just the trade, getting a 1st out of T-Rich, it looks great for the Browns. If you look at everything else that was involved in getting him, it looks horrible for the Browns.

 

Right.  They're treading water.  Last year, they went into the draft after a bad season looking for a QB and RB to build around.  Next year, it will be exactly the same.

[JO_75]

Well Jacksonville... your move. Not saying you should trade Justin Blackmon but if you do, send him to us for revenge for Cleveland even daring to compete with you for Bridgewater lol.

[rmw10]

Right.  They're treading water.  Last year, they went into the draft after a bad season looking for a QB and RB to build around.  Next year, it will be exactly the same.

 

When you look at it overall, this is how it goes:

 

Browns trade 2012 4th overall pick, 4th round pick, 5th round pick, and 7th round pick for a mid-round 1st pick in 2014.  That's a horrible deal.

 

Definitely treading water.  They wasted so many picks for no reason.

[rmw10]

Well Jacksonville... your move. Not saying you should trade Justin Blackmon but if you do, send him to us for revenge for Cleveland even daring to compete with you for Bridgewater lol.

 

I'd take Cecil Shorts if they're interested!

[PolishRifle]

^ That is really pathetic!

Do we really have any right to talk smack about the Browns ability to find good QBs? Maybe you remember (or try to forget), what kind of "talent" we had on our roster. Lets face facts here, the list of best QBs in Ravens history starts and ends with Joe Flacco.

[Puntit]

Do we really have any right to talk smack about the Browns ability to find good QBs? Maybe you remember (or try to forget), what kind of "talent" we had on our roster. Lets face facts here, the list of best QBs in Ravens history starts and ends with Joe Flacco.

Yes, but the equivalent would be for us to decide to trade our best player at the time (eg an Ogden or Lewis) for a high draft pick to try and get one. Everyone would have called us foolish if we did so, and they would be right for saying so. Lets not pretend we didn't consider and reject that approach, sticking with the "best player available" mantra instead.

[PolishRifle]

Yes, but the equivalent would be for us to decide to trade our best player at the time (eg an Ogden or Lewis) for a high draft pick to try and get one. Everyone would have called us foolish if we did so, and they would be right for saying so. Lets not pretend we didn't consider and reject that approach, sticking with the "best player available" mantra instead.

The comment I replied to was on a picture, that illustrated the Browns failure at securing a franchise QB and didn't really have much to do with the Richardson trade.

 

Trent is not AP. He's a good RB, who already battled injuries in his first season. They're not trading away a Hall of Famer like Ogden in this case.

You could also make the argument, that the Ravens did try to build a team around Lewis for a long time, yet never were as comepetitive as they are right now with Flacco on the roster.

Lewis was a HoF middle linebaker and I still think that a really good QB would make a bigger impact on a teams success.

 

Yes, I am prepared to be negged for it.

[Puntit]

The comment I replied to was on a picture, that illustrated the Browns failure at securing a franchise QB and didn't really have much to do with the Richardson trade.

 

Trent is not AP. He's a good RB, who already battled injuries in his first season. They're not trading away a Hall of Famer like Ogden in this case.

You could also make the argument, that the Ravens did try to build a team around Lewis for a long time, yet never were as comepetitive as they are right now with Flacco on the roster.

Lewis was a HoF middle linebaker and I still think that a really good QB would make a bigger impact on a teams success.

 

Yes, I am prepared to be negged for it.

I think the browns FANS would be more than happy to be as competitive a team as we were during the Lewis years even the few years before the Flacco era. At least we always had a shot, even if it came down to Kyle Boller overthrowing a wide open receiver or Air McNair needing to be put back together with duct tape on the sidelines. 

 

And while Richardson isn't AP, he WAS the best offensive player on that team, and with any semblance of a line he would put up good numbers, which I think you are going to see in Indy going forward this year.  I agree it is tough to go far in this league without a top QB, although I feel like Texas and Chicago and Cinci have at times looked competitive without one, and certainly teams like Detroit, Dallas have for years been very average even with one.

[PolishRifle]

I agree it is tough to go far in this league without a top QB, although I feel like Texas and Chicago and Cinci have at times looked competitive without one, and certainly teams like Detroit, Dallas have for years been very average even with one.

 

Cinci has AJ Green, Texas has Andre Johnson, Chicago has Brandon Marshall, Detroit has Megatron and Dallas has Bryant. I'd trade our whole cast of receivers for either one of those guys, except maybe Johnson. A legit star receiver can make a average QBs look good.

[Puntit]

Cinci has AJ Green, Texas has Andre Johnson, Chicago has Brandon Marshall, Detroit has Megatron and Dallas has Bryant. I'd trade our whole cast of receivers for either one of those guys, except maybe Johnson. A legit star receiver can make a average QBs look good.

My point is that teams like Detroit have had the high draft pick QB, a big star receiver and STILL arent perennial playoff teams like the Ravens. Staffords enormous yardage hasn't translated into wins. And that's with a megatron. Im picturing Cleveland nabbing someone not quite as good as Stafford with their first rounder and without anything close to that kind of target with their other first rounder. Meanwhile teams like Texas have looked good even with only a Schaub or a Yates at the helm precisely because of what they built around him, and relying heavilly on their defense and running game, like the Ravens did for so many years. It's a better model for success because its so much less of a crap shoot. For every superstar QB that gets drafted high and produces, there are a dozen who wont. Slow and steady wins this race. If you go all in for that one superstar player, and he isn't, you just threw away another year.

[TheRavenouseD2008]

Better fitting than Richardson?? No way. Unless their offensive scheme is to lose games, then Richardson was their man. The guy could catch, getting 51 passes last season. The dude could run, getting almost a thousand yards and 11 TD's. He also could pass block with the best of them.

 

What exactly does Rainey do better than Richardson?

Health ... Richardson was out 6 games last year he has a history of injuries that lead to weeks off 

[Puntit]

Health ... Richardson was out 6 games last year he has a history of injuries that lead to weeks off 

Except that they are replacing Richardson with McGahee who is just coming off his own season ending injury. So I doubt health plays large in this decision. And Rainey has never started as a RB in the NFL, so I don't think we can even say whether he is equally injury prone or not yet. Peyton Hillis got pretty banged up at RB before Richardson was brought in so I'd say the way Cleveland uses its RBs has a lot to do with it.

[theblackdog]

SB Nation reported today that other Browns players are feeling insecure about their jobs right now after seeing the trade, since the ownership indicated they plan to rebuild.  I can't say I blame them for feeling that way.

[Puntit]

SB Nation reported today that other Browns players are feeling insecure about their jobs right now after seeing the trade, since the ownership indicated they plan to rebuild.  I can't say I blame them for feeling that way.

I don't think they are feeling insecure because of the trade, I think they are feeling insecure because according to PFT the Browns CEO yesterday when asked about the future of Gordon etc, basically stated that nobody was untradable for the right price.

[BrownsFan]

I feel sorry for Browns fans, but they are absolutely loaded with high draft picks next year...

 

Unfortunately overall this hasn't mattered since they returned in '99.  Maybe this is when it changes but who knows.

 

Regarding the comment above when you look at the scope of players on the Browns and their lack of doing anything correct lately then I don't disagree with that statement; at some point you have to catch a ball and block a defender.  The whole Trent Richardson trade is past me now as far as I'm concerned; it happened and that's that.  Like I said in a previous post it's been hard to see exactly how successful this regime has been so far since they've only had one draft but with these picks next year they better not miss.

[-Truth-]

Revis was traded for the 13th pick this year, and a conditional pick next year.  It will be a 4th if he's no longer on the Bucs, but a 3rd if he's still on the team by the third day of the 2014 season.  I do agree that's a big price for a team to pay for a RB, but considering he went #3 just last year, it's still a big net loss for Cleveland.

 

Good point about the conditional selection. And I'm glad that you agree. However, his current value can't be judged by where he was originally drafted, but rather where he would've been slotted in a do-over, as we've had time since then to assess how that class would fare at the pro level. For example, Alfred Morris' market value is significantly higher than his draft position. Richardson has certainly played better than his numbers indicate, has untapped potential, and his best days are likely ahead of him. But he arguably has an uphill battle in attempting to cement himself as the best RB in his own class, nevermind fulfilling the expectations of a Top 3 selection. After one of their worst rushing seasons in recent memory in 2011, where they amassed 95.7 YPG with a 3.67 YPC, they followed it up with 94.7 and 3.97 after the 2012 Draft. For whatever reason, Cleveland failed to rejuvenate the running game with Richardson. While he has a better chance to succeed in another city under another scheme, there were serious doubts about where his ceiling was with the former team. That being said, I disagree with the notion that this trade can already be labeled as a net loss for the Browns. There are too many factors in this trade to be able to judge it properly in the present time.