Rice vs. Pierce -- And a new way of analyzing the run game from statistics

[callahan09]

Well the running game continues to struggle with or without Rice.  

 

Through 3 games, we rank 31st (only the awful Jags are worse) in rush yards per attempt.  We also rank just 29th in 1st down % on rushing attempts.  We have the 23rd most 1st downs, and 24th most yards, despite the 10th most attempts.

 

Pierce continues to get just 2.7 yards per carry, but mind you that includes a 25 yard gain.  Without that, he actually averaged just 1.7 yards per carry on 23 carries!  Which is needless to say, not good.  That's a significant factor in setting up what seems to be an exorbitant amount of 3rd and long situations.  I don't think it's as much Pierce's or Rice's fault.  We know these are two good backs.  They've shown some flashes this season, making plays happen.  The o-line blocking has been abysmal in the running game.  Not sure the play calling is helping matters.

 

A huge factor could be our opponents, who currently rank 1st, 2nd, and 5th in yards per rush attempt allowed.

 

Perhaps the lightbulb will turn on for our rushing attack next week when we face the Bills and their currently-22nd ranked run defense (in terms of YPA allowed).  They are allowing 4.3 yards per attempt.   The worst we've faced so far (the Texans) are allowing 3.3 YPA.  In total the 3 teams we've faced so far are allowing just 2.8 yards per attempt (while we are gaining 2.6 yards per attempt).  If that ratio can continue, we should at least come close to 4 yards per attempt against the Bills.

[Poes Crows]

Well the running game continues to struggle with or without Rice.  

 

Through 3 games, we rank 31st (only the awful Jags are worse) in rush yards per attempt.  We also rank just 29th in 1st down % on rushing attempts.  We have the 23rd most 1st downs, and 24th most yards, despite the 10th most attempts.

 

Pierce continues to get just 2.7 yards per carry, but mind you that includes a 25 yard gain.  Without that, he actually averaged just 1.7 yards per carry on 23 carries!  Which is needless to say, not good.  That's a significant factor in setting up what seems to be an exorbitant amount of 3rd and long situations.  I don't think it's as much Pierce's or Rice's fault.  We know these are two good backs.  They've shown some flashes this season, making plays happen.  The o-line blocking has been abysmal in the running game.  Not sure the play calling is helping matters.

 

A huge factor could be our opponents, who currently rank 1st, 2nd, and 5th in yards per rush attempt allowed.

 

Perhaps the lightbulb will turn on for our rushing attack next week when we face the Bills and their currently-22nd ranked run defense (in terms of YPA allowed).  They are allowing 4.3 yards per attempt.   The worst we've faced so far (the Texans) are allowing 3.3 YPA.  In total the 3 teams we've faced so far are allowing just 2.8 yards per attempt (while we are gaining 2.6 yards per attempt).  If that ratio can continue, we should at least come close to 4 yards per attempt against the Bills.

 

Football is not a game of mathematics nor statistics.  The 2012 Ravens are evidence of that.

 

There's been less than stellar run production for Baltimore for some time now. 

[Ed_Reed20]

Great breakdown. Pierce is simply a better runner.

[AsianRice]

Pierce is breaking tackles after tackles behind a "tofu" O-line; Rice is versatile in running and passing game, but Pierce is a hardcore North and South runner who can break tackles along the way.

 

We are lucky to have 2 premier RBs who can deliver different kind of threats to the opposing team.

 

We all know that Rice can make ppl missed in the open field and catching the ball well, and Pierce will run at the defender and break the tackling with his athelicism, who somewhat resembles AP's running styles....

[HoldingCall]

I said it last year, I like both of our guys but Pierce should start and Rice should be our Sproles.

Pierce has had injury issues that until recent Rice hasn't experienced. It's an old school formation but I would like to see Rice and pierce occasionally in the back field together.

[Static]

I've said it before and will say it again. Put Rice in the slot and run Pierce. Of course Rice would get his carries too.

[izvoodoo]

I've said it before and will say it again. Put Rice in the slot and run Pierce. Of course Rice would get his carries too.

Rice isn't as good a slot receiver as say...

a receiver...

who plays the slot.

[Static]

Rice isn't as good a slot receiver as say...

a receiver...

who plays the slot.

 

 

Rice is a check down machine and last year he was 9th in YAC. Only the 3rd Running back on the list.2011 and 2010 he was 3rd. 2009 he was NUMERO UNO. Rice is, imho , the best receiving back in the league. His rushing has been lacking since the 2nd half of last season. He is a gamechanger but put him where he would be most useful. Besides he already has the chemistry with Flacco and I trust his hands more than anyone else we could put in the slot.

[cobrajet]

Pretty interesting stuff, thanks for sharing. I really like Pierce's run ability and the fact that Rice is a dual threat.

 

My favorite play the Ravens run is the dump-offs to Leach, who barrels to the side marker. That man is a beast and always reaches the first down. I am still waiting for a team to stop it. Unfortunately we only run it once maybe twice at the most per game.

[izvoodoo]

 

Rice isn't as good a slot receiver as say...

a receiver...

who plays the slot.

 

 

Rice is a check down machine and last year he was 9th in YAC. Only the 3rd Running back on the list.2011 and 2010 he was 3rd. 2009 he was NUMERO UNO. Rice is, imho , the best receiving back in the league. His rushing has been lacking since the 2nd half of last season. He is a gamechanger but put him where he would be most useful. Besides he already has the chemistry with Flacco and I trust his hands more than anyone else we could put in the slot.

Rice is a great receiving back, but again, he's not a legit slot receiver.  It works because they have to put a linebacker on him. But he's not a legit slot receiver.  He can play some packages in motion out of the backfield, but not in a base package.

[BMORElegacy]

sooooooo the time has come for you all to jump off Ray Rice bandwagon for Bernard. Just remember the Front Office aways looks for the better player so when Joe's time is up or a better QB comes along I dont want to hear your crys....

[Static]

Rice is a great receiving back, but again, he's not a legit slot receiver.  It works because they have to put a linebacker on him. But he's not a legit slot receiver.  He can play some packages in motion out of the backfield, but not in a base package.

 

2rb set. Motion him out. Shotgun. Motion him out. Any other formation. Motion him out.

[izvoodoo]

2rb set. Motion him out. Shotgun. Motion him out. Any other formation. Motion him out.

But on third and ten, you're not going to put him in the slot.  It's just not as efficient an offensive formation.  He'd be better coming out from the backfield after the coverage clears out.

[beanfigger]

But on third and ten, you're not going to put him in the slot. It's just not as efficient an offensive formation. He'd be better coming out from the backfield after the coverage clears out.

We would probably have Rice in the slot 3rd and ten if we went empty backfield, especially in the hurry up when we don't substitute much.

[display name]

What's the problem?! Why does our running game suddenly SUCK?

Hello?

It's a huge problem yet I have no clue how to fix it.

Edit: I'm wondering if Harbaugh does either.

[izvoodoo]

We would probably have Rice in the slot 3rd and ten if we went empty backfield, especially in the hurry up when we don't substitute much.

That's still in a sub package, he's not going to be a primary slot receiver.  He'll have a couple plays there, but it's not going to be a big part of the offense.

 

I guess my big argument it ray rice is not a better slot receiver than stokley or Marlon brown.  Those guys are receivers.  Rice is a good receiver for a running back.

[beanfigger]

That's still in a sub package, he's not going to be a primary slot receiver.  He'll have a couple plays there, but it's not going to be a big part of the offense.

 

I guess my big argument it ray rice is not a better slot receiver than stokley or Marlon brown.  Those guys are receivers.  Rice is a good receiver for a running back.

 

Yeah, he's a RB.  He will line up in the slot often, but not more than he lines up regularly.  We had a whole thread about this a couple months ago.

[izvoodoo]

Yeah, he's a RB.  He will line up in the slot often, but not more than he lines up regularly.  We had a whole thread about this a couple months ago.

Yeah, I was just drilling that home.
I do hope Deonte and Tandon get involved.

[RedFire]

So the Rice vs Pierce debate is over, right?
Doesn't matter who is in the backfield....

Plus we need to use Ray Rice more like Daren Sproles by getting him the ball in space to create with speed and cutting ability.

[jimmypowder]

Rice's vision has been terrible this year . On one play in the second half yesterday there was a huge hole to the outside and instead he dove inside into a pile and down ! I know everyone knows what play I'm talking about because it would have been a huge gainer .

[Static]

Rice put on 10lbs to bulk and have more power. 'POWER' as in the power running scheme we aren't running. 

 

Bernard is a 2nd year put into a whole new scheme and behind a line thats playing horrible.

[rayrayven]

I blame the original post on fantasy football. Tickling out stats a dozen different ways doesn't work in football. Baseball maybe. Fact is opposing teams make their first goal stopping Ray Rice and not Pierce. They assign specific personel to track Rice and they design their schemes on defense to contain Rice. One thing they specifically do is keep Rice from getting outside. The Ravens dumb blocking scheme aggravates that because Rice keeps getting sent up the middle where all the Ravens OL get congested together and fail to create a ghost of a gap. Personally I hate watching the Ravens offense. I had two years of watching Cam and and now I have to watch this stupid running scheme eveeyone knows is lame. 

[RavensFan34950]

Rice put on 10lbs to bulk and have more power. 'POWER' as in the power running scheme we aren't running. 

 

Bernard is a 2nd year put into a whole new scheme and behind a line thats playing horrible.

Speaking of power did you see Vonta Leach running the ball yesterday? I mean even he looked like a better HB than Rice and Pierce. Its just comical watching our run game this year.

[monkeycatt]

"Ray Rice and Bernard Pierce are ranked first and second in the NFL in percentage of runs that have generated two yards or fewer"

 

just read that on nfl.com.  gosh, is that actually true and if so, what the heck is the problem? 

 

[Static]

Yeah. Alot of our advanced statistics are horrible. In plains yards we look somewhat ok but really we are dysfunctional.

 

Our running game is literally the worst and same for our O-line.