Joe Flacco, Terrell Suggs and Leadership

[ellicottraven]

Here is an excerpt from Ray Lewis' remarks about the leadership void and his belief on what is needed from potential leaders:

"I really want to see where it comes from," Lewis said on ESPN's "Sunday NFL Countdown." "Does it come from Terrell Suggs or does it come from Joe Flacco? Mr. (Steve) Bisciotti gave him $100 million. Does that $100 million calculate to you now spending bonus time with your young receivers, with your young team? There's one thing about talent -- talent is seen with the eye; leadership is rarely seen because it's done most of the time after-hours. And that's where I think the biggest issue is: who's going to be the leader to invest in that team?"

Lewis added, "For so many years when I was there, the No. 1 things that I did so much was spend times with guys off the field, when the coaches wasn't around, when the film wasn't showing. That's the most crucial time when you're talking about players development. How do you develop a man into a man? You've got to spend quality time with him. So now the question with the Ravens is: does Terrell Suggs spend that time? Does Joe Flacco spend that time with those young guys to get this ball club back where they need to be?"

I agree with Ray's general assessment here. I think most QBs who are great leaders spend a lot of time with their receivers to develop a rapport and consequently hold them accountable to the team's progress. I don't really believe Joe does it. He is too laid back and relaxed to impose on others, even if it means not performing up to par. I know Peyton, Brady and Brees do it with their team and are very effective leaders (not necessarily vocal. Rodgers calls out his receivers and holds them responsible for their errors. Does Flacco spend the necessary time with his team beyond practice? I know he is a friend of Pitta and hangs out with him, but what about the others?

With regard to Suggs, does he take the time to spend with his defense? He seems to be more involved with his film making when he isn't practicing. So who steps up to fill the void? I am hoping Flacco or Suggs are forced into that role by ownership sooner rather than later. I think Bisciotti kind of alluded to that very premise in the ring ceremony by calling Flacco out to assume that role. But, did Flacco get the drift? Don't know if it is important, but based on what Lewis is saying, it seems to be the critical factor in assuming true leadership of a team.

What do you guys think? Do you think the leadership that Flacco and Suggs display is adequate or do you think they should do more? Comment without being critical to the messenger please.

[beanfigger]

Where are you getting all this information that all those guys spend so much time away from practice with their receivers?  I know Peyton spends extra practice with them, but do you know for a fact that all those guys hang out and talk with their receivers off the practice field like Ray is talking about?  Do you know for a fact that Joe doesn't?  It seems like this is just speculation on your part, but please tell me if I'm wrong.  I'm not attempting to attack your post because it does make sense.  Those are legitimate questions I'm asking.

[Moderator 3]

Actually, it was widely reported last week that Joe and the receivers were staying after practice to work.

[The Oakland Cathedral]

Actually, it was widely reported last week that Joe and the receivers were staying after practice to work.

Adding to this somewhat, I've seen a number of reports of Joe and Torrey hanging out a lot recently.

[Ravens Lover]

I think it'll end up being that Suggs will be the one that people will think of as the leader only because he's more of the Ray Lewis otspoken vocal leader that people will see in the huddle and stuff.  That doesn't mean that Joe isn't leading though.  He leads by example, and I think Marlon Brown said it best he said that he never got nervous when the offense was in its first half funk yesterday because Joe wasn't nervous, and thats what you want out of your quarterback you want a guy who no matter how bad things look or how bad he might be playing that game is still calm and cool and has that attitude that we can still win this game.

[Ravenseconbeast]

Adding to this somewhat, I've seen a number of reports of Joe and Torrey hanging out a lot recently.

 

Adding to this, I've heard Flacco eats mcdonalds nuggets while Torrey goes to subway for footlong.   Both spent 5 dollars!  what chemistry...

[billick]

Harbs is the leader. The head coach.

 

No kidding.

[jazz1988]

Honestly I agree with Ray Lewis  but the leadership is there but I feel like it isn't complete  and it may never but at the same  level  of  Ray lewis , Ed Reed,  and Anquan Boldin but right now it needs time to grow. Joe Flacco and Terrell Suggs have been leaders before but they are in different position to lead more than ever since the departure of Ray Lewis and etc so I wouldnt expect their leadership to be finished or should i say polished.

[beanfigger]

People sometimes overlook the fact that veteran acquisitions can also provide leadership. Canty, Dumervil, even Clark and Stokely are all valuable in this area. Ray and Ed were special. No team will have that again; not any team in the league. Leadership comes in many ways, shapes and forms, and we have plenty of it to work with.

[Strength.52]

  I agree with what Ray is saying, but I think most people will take what he said the wrong way or not understand it ... The most important thing he said is that leadership is done away from the football field when no-one is watching

 

    That statement right there, from Ray's POV at least, means that everybody in the media and fans really have no idea what kind of "leadership" is going on ...

 

  Therefore, analyzing who the Ravens' "leaders" are is pointless (From the outside) - Of course they'll continue to be so much talk about it, even though Ray's main point is that nobody should be talking about it because we don't know 

 

Edit: And as someone said below me, Ray is not ignorantly (since he's not inside that locker room anymore) making a statement that Flacco / Suggs are not being "leaders", he is just posing the questions ... And I think telling everybody in a nice way to stop talking about it (if you can dissect the quote)

[Ravenslifer]

Here is an excerpt from Ray Lewis' remarks about the leadership void and his belief on what is needed from potential leaders:

"I really want to see where it comes from," Lewis said on ESPN's "Sunday NFL Countdown." "Does it come from Terrell Suggs or does it come from Joe Flacco? Mr. (Steve) Bisciotti gave him $100 million. Does that $100 million calculate to you now spending bonus time with your young receivers, with your young team? There's one thing about talent -- talent is seen with the eye; leadership is rarely seen because it's done most of the time after-hours. And that's where I think the biggest issue is: who's going to be the leader to invest in that team?"

Lewis added, "For so many years when I was there, the No. 1 things that I did so much was spend times with guys off the field, when the coaches wasn't around, when the film wasn't showing. That's the most crucial time when you're talking about players development. How do you develop a man into a man? You've got to spend quality time with him. So now the question with the Ravens is: does Terrell Suggs spend that time? Does Joe Flacco spend that time with those young guys to get this ball club back where they need to be?"

I agree with Ray's general assessment here. I think most QBs who are great leaders spend a lot of time with their receivers to develop a rapport and consequently hold them accountable to the team's progress. I don't really believe Joe does it. He is too laid back and relaxed to impose on others, even if it means not performing up to par. I know Peyton, Brady and Brees do it with their team and are very effective leaders (not necessarily vocal. Rodgers calls out his receivers and holds them responsible for their errors. Does Flacco spend the necessary time with his team beyond practice? I know he is a friend of Pitta and hangs out with him, but what about the others?

With regard to Suggs, does he take the time to spend with his defense? He seems to be more involved with his film making when he isn't practicing. So who steps up to fill the void? I am hoping Flacco or Suggs are forced into that role by ownership sooner rather than later. I think Bisciotti kind of alluded to that very premise in the ring ceremony by calling Flacco out to assume that role. But, did Flacco get the drift? Don't know if it is important, but based on what Lewis is saying, it seems to be the critical factor in assuming true leadership of a team.

What do you guys think? Do you think the leadership that Flacco and Suggs display is adequate or do you think they should do more? Comment without being critical to the messenger please.

 

He basically asked rhetorical questions right there.  I don't see him implying that Flacco and Suggs don't spend time with their teammates trying to make everyone better, he's just saying that's what HE, Ray Lewis, did as a leader, and that's what he expects any leader to do.  He was asked what he thinks about a "void" and he responded by saying what leadership is.  He never said "I think there is a void here" - that's something media types drill up to try and give some big mystical meaning to what we see on the field.  Does losing in Denver 2 weeks ago mean a lack in leadership?  If so, than how could we have HAD that leadership from Ray and Ed last year and still lost to Denver?  Is a leader supposed to inspire others - because Marlon sure talked like he was inspired by Joe's unwavering confidence in him and the other players on offense after they'd made quite a few gaffes in the first half of the Cleveland game.

 

I don't see any problem with leadership on this team - what I do see is a lack of chemistry owing to the fact that a lot of these guys haven't played together before.  The receivers catch those balls, we might be singing a different tune in Denver.  Same with the o-line blocking.  Bottom line is, what do you see as leadership, and how do you expect Joe and Sizzle to act?  Joe, at least, will NEVER, EVER be a Brady or Manning who yells at their receivers, or a Brees who does this Rah-Rah stuff all the time and gets people fired up.  Eli Manning is a similar personality to Joe, very laid back most of the time, but full of confidence in himself.  Does that make him less of a leader than his brother?

[Static]

Rice is one of the most genuine, nicest people in the NFL. He speaks his mind on facebook and stands up for what he believes in. I imagine he does the same on the field. Its hard not to like Rice.

Suggs is a very intellectual person , is his IQ high , maybe not and maybe he wouldn't score high on the Sats but if you have heard him speak he is very well-spoken, articulate , and witty. He has given pre-game speeches, been a media favorite , and seems to be everyone's best friend in the locker-room always joking and laughing. All suggs did was call Dumervil an elite pass rusher and they seem to be best friends already with adjacent lockers.

Flacco has put multiple people in 'awe' of how calm and collected he is. He will never be a loud mouth leader , we have Suggs for that, but Flacco will always lead by example. I quote Marlon Brown ( probably off) " I saw how Joe was in the 3rd quarter and he was okay, and I knew he would be okay, and I would be okay, and we would be okay."


We have leaders. Besides, Leadership doesn't score points. Leadership doesn't kick FGs, nor score touchdowns nor create turnovers. Its just some Media [profanity deleted] as to why we will suck this year.


edit: The quote is " I wasn't frustrated because I looked at Joe, and he is our leader and if our leader isn't frustrated then we'll be alright because Joe will be alright."

Weather he means that or not he still noticed Joe Cool being Cool after a horrible offensive outing in the 1st half.

[berad]

Adding to this, I've heard Flacco eats mcdonalds nuggets while Torrey goes to subway for footlong. Both spent 5 dollars! what chemistry...

LOL now that's good!

I think the team has good chemistry. Flaccos baby is just an example but they all seemed to be in tune, know his wife, and be genuinely happy for him.

[BloodRaven]

Ray is right and he's asking the right questions, it takes more than talent to win games.

[PoeDinkum]

 

I don't see any problem with leadership on this team - what I do see is a lack of chemistry owing to the fact that a lot of these guys haven't played together before.  The receivers catch those balls, we might be singing a different tune in Denver.  Same with the o-line blocking.  Bottom line is, what do you see as leadership, and how do you expect Joe and Sizzle to act?  Joe, at least, will NEVER, EVER be a Brady or Manning who yells at their receivers, or a Brees who does this Rah-Rah stuff all the time and gets people fired up.  Eli Manning is a similar personality to Joe, very laid back most of the time, but full of confidence in himself.  Does that make him less of a leader than his brother?

I absolutely agree with this. IMHO I refuse to believe that guys like Flacco, Suggs, and Rice don't realize that its their time to shine and take what they learned under Reed and Lewis, make it theirs, and push this team to produce. My goodness, Joe played a game, granted one in which he earns a boat-load of money, while his second child was born. (You try telling your wife you're working and to keep you updated while an addition to your family comes into this world.) We do have several new faces on both sides of the ball that need time to build trust in each other and respond to the leadership presented not just by these players, but the coaches as well. Keep grinding men!

[Malkavian Raven]

Honestly I agree with Ray Lewis  but the leadership is there but I feel like it isn't complete  and it may never but at the same  level  of  Ray lewis , Ed Reed,  and Anquan Boldin but right now it needs time to grow. Joe Flacco and Terrell Suggs have been leaders before but they are in different position to lead more than ever since the departure of Ray Lewis and etc so I wouldnt expect their leadership to be finished or should i say polished.

 

Agree with everything you said.

 

Whoever the outspoken leader is at the moment isn't just going to step in and be another Ray Lewis; Ray was something seriously special.  Give it till midway through the season, a true leader needs time to develop.

[Militant X 1]

People sometimes overlook the fact that veteran acquisitions can also provide leadership. Canty, Dumervil, even Clark and Stokely are all valuable in this area. Ray and Ed were special. No team will have that again; not any team in the league. Leadership comes in many ways, shapes and forms, and we have plenty of it to work with.

while I absolutely love Ray and Ed, and agree with you that they were special...they were special for the Ravens!  other teams did/do have players such as them as well though.  Brian Dawkins quickly comes to my mind for the Eagles and Sapp and Lynch for the Broncos a few years back etc.  this Ravens team needs to find out who they are without Ray and Ed.  I feel that the deeper the season goes the more we'll begin to see their identity emerge.

 

~Mili

[beanfigger]

while I absolutely love Ray and Ed, and agree with you that they were special...they were special for the Ravens!  other teams did/do have players such as them as well though.  Brian Dawkins quickly comes to my mind for the Eagles and Sapp and Lynch for the Broncos a few years back etc.  this Ravens team needs to find out who they are without Ray and Ed.  I feel that the deeper the season goes the more we'll begin to see their identity emerge.

 

~Mili

 

I'm not saying leaders don't exist anywhere else.  I honestly feel that Ray Lewis was a different breed of leader that doesn't really come around more than once.  Even if someone does emerge comparable to him, for them to also have a guy like Ed Reed, and for so many years together, is hard to imagine.  Teams will have leaders, sure.  Just not on that level.  There's no way I'd compare Sapp and Lynch to Lewis and Reed.  They were two outspoken, good players, but were either one of them really comparable to Ray in terms of what he did for the Ravens?  I think you have to go way back to those one in a generation teams like the 49ers of the '80s or Steelers of the '70s or Packers of the '60s to find a situation even close to this.  It doesn't happen like that anymore, especially for so many years.

[scrock]

Flacco is a leader, the Ravens will be fine...the defense has Suggs, Webb, Ngata, etc

 

I loved Marlon Brown's comments about being frustrated and about Joe being so calm that he was going to be calm and the team would be alright cause Joe was alright