Defense needs to create turnovers...

[callahan09]

Through 2 games, the defense has yet to create a turnover (the one true turnover we have was a special teams muffed punt, the other one that appears on the stat sheets was the interception dropped before entering the end zone, both against Denver week 1, neither one with the defense on the field).

 

Only the Raiders and the Steelers (who have yet to play their second game) sit alongside the Ravens without a defensive takeaway so far this season.

 

The last time the Ravens opened the season without a defensive takeaway through the first 2 games was back in 2002.

 

Between 2003 and 2012, the Ravens averaged 3.9 defensive takeaways through the first 2 games of the season, and led the league in that statistic through 2 games twice (with 9 in 2006 and 8 in 2011).  Last year, they had 6 and ranked 2nd.  They only had 1 twice (2005 and 2010).

 

We have also allowed 55 points on defense (for this, I'm not counting special teams / turnover returns for touchdowns against the defense), which ranks worst in team history through 2 games (and still would even if you include non-defensive-allowed touchdowns for all the other years).  Over the 10 previous seasons, we averaged 31.5 defensive-allowed points through 2 games.

 

Additionally, we have allowed 769 yards, which ranks 2nd worst in team history only behind last season, while over the 10 previous seasons we averaged just 551.4 yards allowed through the first 2 games.

 

And finally, we have allowed 5.9154 yards per play, worst in team history, compared with 4.5570 average over the previous 10 seasons.

 

So to summarize, we have created the fewest turnovers, allowed the most points, allowed the most yards per play, and allowed the 2nd most total yards in team history through the first 2 games of the season.

 

The first place we should look to improve is takeaways.  The defense can help themselves by forcing the other team to make mistakes and get the offense back onto the field.  Traditionally, this team struggles when we have prolonged periods of takeaway-free defense, as I'm sure most NFL teams do.  If we can create turnovers, we by extension limit the damage opposing offenses can do to us in other areas such as yards and points.

[flynismo]

Our d has given each other quite a few opportunities for INTs, unfortunately they look like Ed Dickson when it comes to holding onto the pass.
Given how good the pass rush is, I feel safe saying it is a fluke and the turnovers will come

[callahan09]

In fact, looking a bit further back on the turnovers, 2002 is the only year besides now this year that we haven't had any defensive takeaways through the first 2 games.

 

We have never gone the first 3 games without a defensive takeaway, so hopefully that bodes well for this coming game.  In 2002, the defense had 3 takeaways in game 3.

[gabefergy]

I'm not worried

[berad]

I mentioned this too during the game. Weird not to see any yet.

Daryl Smith probably should have a had a pick yesterday. Huff had one bounce off his hands (would have been nullified by Elam DPI though), and there were a few other times where the ball hung in the air.

Not concerned just weird. I think Webby gets the first one on a pick.

[GrimCoconut]

We definitely need to do better in this area, but it's still too early to be concerned. With that said, I think a big part of our decreased turnovers is due to the loss of Ed Reed, because he caused QBs to play us differently or got them himself. He got guys into position. We're still looking for that kind of player to emerge on this defense, which is a good thing considering how stacked we are on defense. If Arthur Brown isn't IRed and he's OK to play, I expect him to get a few picks this year and I expect Elam to get his share as well as Webb & even Smith. I think those will be the players that help us generate TOs. I would like to see Omar Brown brought up if we still have a drought. Perhaps he can make some plays for us.

[Sami84]

Through 2 games, the defense has yet to create a turnover (the one true turnover we have was a special teams muffed punt, the other one that appears on the stat sheets was the interception dropped before entering the end zone, both against Denver week 1, neither one with the defense on the field).

 

Only the Raiders and the Steelers (who have yet to play their second game) sit alongside the Ravens without a defensive takeaway so far this season.

 

The last time the Ravens opened the season without a defensive takeaway through the first 2 games was back in 2002.

 

Between 2003 and 2012, the Ravens averaged 3.9 defensive takeaways through the first 2 games of the season, and led the league in that statistic through 2 games twice (with 9 in 2006 and 8 in 2011).  Last year, they had 6 and ranked 2nd.  They only had 1 twice (2005 and 2010).

 

We have also allowed 55 points on defense (for this, I'm not counting special teams / turnover returns for touchdowns against the defense), which ranks worst in team history through 2 games (and still would even if you include non-defensive-allowed touchdowns for all the other years).  Over the 10 previous seasons, we averaged 31.5 defensive-allowed points through 2 games.

 

Additionally, we have allowed 769 yards, which ranks 2nd worst in team history only behind last season, while over the 10 previous seasons we averaged just 551.4 yards allowed through the first 2 games.

 

And finally, we have allowed 5.9154 yards per play, worst in team history, compared with 4.5570 average over the previous 10 seasons.

 

So to summarize, we have created the fewest turnovers, allowed the most points, allowed the most yards per play, and allowed the 2nd most total yards in team history through the first 2 games of the season.

 

The first place we should look to improve is takeaways.  The defense can help themselves by forcing the other team to make mistakes and get the offense back onto the field.  Traditionally, this team struggles when we have prolonged periods of takeaway-free defense, as I'm sure most NFL teams do.  If we can create turnovers, we by extension limit the damage opposing offenses can do to us in other areas such as yards and points.

yeah..that 1st game might be he reason bud. make a statement after 5

[callahan09]

yeah..that 1st game might be he reason bud. make a statement after 5

It's never too early to look for places where improvement can be made.  I hope our coaches don't have your attitude.  Anyway, I made similar posts about our performance after Game 1, and here I make another after Game 2.  I do understand that Game 1 was the brunt of the statistical fallout we have here, and that Game 2 was an enormous improvement over game 1, but the fact is, we can be more opportunistic on defense than we have been.  And I will continue to do my statistical analysis after each game and when things jump out at me, I will continue to post my findings here for other Ravens fans to see.

[dirtybird10]

No Ed Reed, no Ray Lewis... two guys that could catch the ball when it was tipped. I think our defense just needs more time to Gel. The turnovers will come, but guys do need to make the best of the opportunities when they come their way (Daryl Smith).

[The Raven]

Turnovers are great and all, but they aren't really essential to defense.

[GrimCoconut]

Turnovers are great and all, but they aren't really essential to defense.

I'm not sure if I agree or disagree with you here. Part of me agrees and part disagrees. I don't think you need turnovers all the time but I believe that turnovers have a huge impact on games and the better you are at it your chances of going far significantly increase.

[The Raven]

I'm not sure if I agree or disagree with you here. Part of me agrees and part disagrees. I don't think you need turnovers all the time but I believe that turnovers have a huge impact on games and the better you are at it your chances of going far significantly increase.

 

Right. If you ask me, two things matter on defense: Points allowed and red zone defense. If you keep a team from scoring more points than your offense, you are doing your job, and it doesn't matter how it got done. Against Cleveland, we didn't need turnovers to hold them to 6 points.

 

Turnovers are definitely desirable, and they make big impacts, but they are not the end all be all. 

[Bltravens]

Actually surprised that with the pass rush we had going Sunday Weeden didn't turn the ball over. Though Smith had one hit him n the hands. Pass rush like that is going to lead to turnovers anyways.

[edreedfromtheu]

Through 2 games, the defense has yet to create a turnover (the one true turnover we have was a special teams muffed punt, the other one that appears on the stat sheets was the interception dropped before entering the end zone, both against Denver week 1, neither one with the defense on the field).

 

Only the Raiders and the Steelers (who have yet to play their second game) sit alongside the Ravens without a defensive takeaway so far this season.

 

The last time the Ravens opened the season without a defensive takeaway through the first 2 games was back in 2002.

 

Between 2003 and 2012, the Ravens averaged 3.9 defensive takeaways through the first 2 games of the season, and led the league in that statistic through 2 games twice (with 9 in 2006 and 8 in 2011).  Last year, they had 6 and ranked 2nd.  They only had 1 twice (2005 and 2010).

 

We have also allowed 55 points on defense (for this, I'm not counting special teams / turnover returns for touchdowns against the defense), which ranks worst in team history through 2 games (and still would even if you include non-defensive-allowed touchdowns for all the other years).  Over the 10 previous seasons, we averaged 31.5 defensive-allowed points through 2 games.

 

Additionally, we have allowed 769 yards, which ranks 2nd worst in team history only behind last season, while over the 10 previous seasons we averaged just 551.4 yards allowed through the first 2 games.

 

And finally, we have allowed 5.9154 yards per play, worst in team history, compared with 4.5570 average over the previous 10 seasons.

 

So to summarize, we have created the fewest turnovers, allowed the most points, allowed the most yards per play, and allowed the 2nd most total yards in team history through the first 2 games of the season.

 

The first place we should look to improve is takeaways.  The defense can help themselves by forcing the other team to make mistakes and get the offense back onto the field.  Traditionally, this team struggles when we have prolonged periods of takeaway-free defense, as I'm sure most NFL teams do.  If we can create turnovers, we by extension limit the damage opposing offenses can do to us in other areas such as yards and points.

STOP IT! 

Are you seriously blaming the DEFENSE now? 

Joe Flacco got PAID.  You all claimed him to be THE MAN.  He couldn't even put up more than 14 on the Browns... in the home opener... on an extended rest week... immediately after being embarassed in the season opener.

When are we going to stop blaming everyone BUT Flacco?

The defense was shutting down Peyton Manning.... until Flacco went and threw that first interception in Week 1.  Once that happened... it all went downhill.

If there's anything I can insult the defense on... it's letting the ONLY receiving threat on the Browns to be wide open.  Leave anyone open but their tight end, and you're fine.  But they managed to leave him wide open a couple times.  Other than that... good work.  Can't wait to see just how nasty this pass rush gets.

And since the offense can't sustain a drive and rarely shows confidence or composure in the red zone... we'll get to see plenty of the defense on the field.

[callahan09]

STOP IT! 

Are you seriously blaming the DEFENSE now? 

Joe Flacco got PAID.  You all claimed him to be THE MAN.  He couldn't even put up more than 14 on the Browns... in the home opener... on an extended rest week... immediately after being embarassed in the season opener.

When are we going to stop blaming everyone BUT Flacco?

The defense was shutting down Peyton Manning.... until Flacco went and threw that first interception in Week 1.  Once that happened... it all went downhill.

If there's anything I can insult the defense on... it's letting the ONLY receiving threat on the Browns to be wide open.  Leave anyone open but their tight end, and you're fine.  But they managed to leave him wide open a couple times.  Other than that... good work.  Can't wait to see just how nasty this pass rush gets.

And since the offense can't sustain a drive and rarely shows confidence or composure in the red zone... we'll get to see plenty of the defense on the field.

What is your deal?  I didn't blame anyone for anything.  I posted numbers.

 

The only person blaming anyone here is you, and you're way off base to place the blame on Flacco.

 

First of all, he didn't just put up 14 on the Browns... he also threw 2 touchdown strikes that should have been caught, but weren't.  Flacco is the reason we got 14 points, because he converted key 3rd downs through the air when the running game kept setting us up for 3rd and long, and he did so on two drives in the second half to lead us to victory.  Flacco also got us into field goal range on two drives earlier in the game but we didn't succeed in kicking the field goal.  If the entire scoreboard were dictated solely on the play of Flacco in that game we could have had 28+ points instead of 14, so don't even go there.

 

As for the Denver game... you're totally wrong there, as well.  It all went downhill after Flacco threw the first interception?  Funny, considering it happened at the beginning of the second quarter and led to the game being tied, yet we still finished the half with a 3 point lead.

 

No, the game got out of hand when the special teams unit gave up a blocked punt just after the defense came out of the tunnel at half-time letting the Broncos march 80 yards for a TD.  That was the one-two punch that led to us going from up by 3 to down by 11 in no time flat, and it had absolutely nothing to do with Flacco (the 3 and out that led to the blocked punt was a first down loss of 2 yards by Rice, a perfect strike for a first down DROPPED by Ed Dickson, and then an immediate sack given up due to Shaun Phillips blowing past Ricky Wagner like he wasn't even there... none of those plays being Flacco's fault).

 

Oh yeah... and lack of composure in the red zone?

 

In the red zone, Bernard Pierce and Ray Rice combine for 26 yards on 7 attempts, with 2 touchdowns.

Outside of the red zone, they combine for 125 yards on 46 carries, with 0 touchdowns and a lost fumble.

 

That's 3.7 yards per carry in the red zone, and 2.7 yards per carry outside the red zone.

 

Meanwhile, Flacco is 6/11 for 41 yards and 3 touchdowns (0 interceptions, 0 fumbles, 0 sacks) in the red zone.  That's a 102.7 QB Rating in the red zone.

 

We kicked 2 field goals in the red zone.

 

All told, we have been to the red zone 7 times, and scored all 7 times, including 5 touchdowns.

 

That's pretty good, and both the passing game efficiency and the run game efficiency are much better in the red zone than outside of it this year.

[edreedfromtheu]

Turnovers are great and all, but they aren't really essential to defense.

Turnovers are also STAT bait... as most people aren't counting what's actually a FORCED turnover on a great defensive play... and what is just the offense being terrible and giving the ball away in an "unforced" turnover.

Sure, they both change possession of the ball... but don't compare defenses on turnovers.  As they are just as misleading as many other stats.  Just because the Giants gave the Cowboys the ball 6 times doesn't mean the Dallas defense is better than the Ravens defense.

[edreedfromtheu]

What is your deal?  I didn't blame anyone for anything.  I posted numbers.

The title of the thread is "DEFENSE NEEDS TO CREATE TURNOVERS,"  How else am I supposed to interpret that?  Then you gave numbers... stats... which as I said, mean almost nothing.

The numbers that matter are the points that each team has.  And at halftime, the Ravens offense had not put up a single point.  The defense didn't give up a touchdown the entire game.

[Gorillaz MD]

STOP IT! 

Are you seriously blaming the DEFENSE now? 

Joe Flacco got PAID.  You all claimed him to be THE MAN.  He couldn't even put up more than 14 on the Browns... in the home opener... on an extended rest week... immediately after being embarassed in the season opener.

When are we going to stop blaming everyone BUT Flacco?
 

Flacco also kept drives alive by converting third downs when the offense looked flat. I suppose Flacco is also the reason the run game can't get started? Or that TEs can't catch?

 

[GrimCoconut]

Let's stop the irrelevant talk about Joe Flacco in a topic where we discuss turnovers and the defense's ability to create and force them. There is zero correlation between Joe Flacco and the lack of turnovers.

[Bltravens]

Someone call the waaaambulance

[callahan09]

Turnovers are also STAT bait... as most people aren't counting what's actually a FORCED turnover on a great defensive play... and what is just the offense being terrible and giving the ball away in an "unforced" turnover.

Sure, they both change possession of the ball... but don't compare defenses on turnovers.  As they are just as misleading as many other stats.  Just because the Giants gave the Cowboys the ball 6 times doesn't mean the Dallas defense is better than the Ravens defense.

 

This is a post where you get to take a look at some defensive stats and there is a comparison to previous years.  You can interpret them as you wish.  I didn't say "We lost blah blah blah because of this and that".  I like to look at the numbers and I like to compare them to years past with this football team.  That's what I've done.  I thought it was interesting that statistically this is the worst start to a Ravens season, ever, defensively speaking.  Now, I also know that this is because we have by far the worst Week 1 Game ever, and that Week 2 was actually very good, but combined with Week 1, the sum still looks bad.  

 

That doesn't mean it can't be interesting to point out the numbers where they lie.  I said the "Defense needs to create more turnovers" in the topic title.. that's right, I said that.  I suppose anybody who says they don't *NEED* to create turnovers is correct.  It's possible to win football games without creating turnovers.  The thing is, it's a lot easier to win football games when you do create turnovers.

 

 And if we don't create any turnovers in this next game, then we enter into an interesting statistical zone where this team has never had that occur in its entire franchise history.  I find that to be interesting.  Even if we win next week and force 0 turnovers, it will *remain* an interesting fact that it is the first time in franchise history that we created 0 turnovers through the first 3 games.

[dirtybird10]

STOP IT! 

Are you seriously blaming the DEFENSE now? 

Joe Flacco got PAID.  You all claimed him to be THE MAN.  He couldn't even put up more than 14 on the Browns... in the home opener... on an extended rest week... immediately after being embarassed in the season opener.

When are we going to stop blaming everyone BUT Flacco?

The defense was shutting down Peyton Manning.... until Flacco went and threw that first interception in Week 1.  Once that happened... it all went downhill.

If there's anything I can insult the defense on... it's letting the ONLY receiving threat on the Browns to be wide open.  Leave anyone open but their tight end, and you're fine.  But they managed to leave him wide open a couple times.  Other than that... good work.  Can't wait to see just how nasty this pass rush gets.

And since the offense can't sustain a drive and rarely shows confidence or composure in the red zone... we'll get to see plenty of the defense on the field.

Oh bull crap, Joe played well yesterday. He hit for 22 of 33 passes, and there were yet again a number of drops, not to mention two that were given touchdowns. Catch just those two balls and Joe connects for 24 of 33 for probably 260 yards and 3 TD's. How bad would that be? We won, and the Browns have a pretty good defense, that should be enough for any fan. Look at Tom Brady's stat lines so far, they don't look great, yet the Pats are winning. The Bronco's game was not on Joe, it was on the Defense putting up over 40 points on us.

[Moderator 3]

We also "won" the time of possession battle yesterday.

[xxhighriser]

Daryl Smith had a chance both weeks, and I remember that cus the play after Jacoby got hurt.  Not worried though, we will definitely cause fumbles with our rush and heavy hitters.

[AsianRice]

If our defense continued like they did against the Browns last Sunday, tipping and batting the ball, we will eventually come down with the ball.  I like our chances of creating more turnovers next week against soft Shaub. 

 

Houston are playing bad so it's time for us to jump on them early and bury them.

[callahan09]

I find it interesting that people are so hostile at my pointing out these statistics.  It was just numbers, folks.  Nobody thinks it's interesting that this is the second season in franchise history with no takeaways in the first 2 games?  Nobody thinks it's interesting that if we don't get any next week, it will be the first time that's happened in franchise history?  People don't want to see us capitalizing on opportunities and punishing opposing offenses?  I don't understand why I'm getting all these negative votes for this topic.  For me, the numbers are fascinating and it was worth sharing.

[admartian]

Honestly, we don't need to act like the sky is falling right now. We create a good pass rush and the run d have both been good thus far. 

 

It's our coverage in the middle of the field and concentration/mental lapses during those longer routes that beat us.

 

But the D has showed promise thus far, and I hope they can iron out the issues.  No TOs are fine so long as our offense scores (yes, that is worth another thread in itself).

[callahan09]

Honestly, we don't need to act like the sky is falling right now. We create a good pass rush and the run d have both been good thus far. 

 

It's our coverage in the middle of the field and concentration/mental lapses during those longer routes that beat us.

 

But the D has showed promise thus far, and I hope they can iron out the issues.  No TOs are fine so long as our offense scores (yes, that is worth another thread in itself).

I agree.  Nothing to panic about at all.  Week 1 was abysmal, but it was also in Denver, it was a revenge game for the Broncos, it was that thin air for week 1 when we probably weren't properly conditioned to handle that, and it all looked a lot worse because that blocked punt set off a chain of events that just ruined that 3rd quarter.  Plus, obviously, the Broncos are looking like just about the greatest offense of all time at this point.

 

Week 2 against the Browns was very, very good.  I'm not worried.

[Militant X 1]

I mentioned this too during the game. Weird not to see any yet.

Daryl Smith probably should have a had a pick yesterday. Huff had one bounce off his hands (would have been nullified by Elam DPI though), and there were a few other times where the ball hung in the air.

Not concerned just weird. I think Webby gets the first one on a pick.

I felt the same way B.

 

~Mili

[Willbacker]

The 1st turnover will probally be off an Ed Reed lateral and it will be actually credited to our O